Author Topic: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag  (Read 18710 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« on: September 29, 2015, 04:32:19 pm »
More Mailbag



SPOLIERS:
Fluke 8060A Multimeter
Precision Digital Adjustable DC Voltage Reference:
http://ianjohnston.com/
Vacuum desoldering pump teardown.
Adelaide Hackerspace
http://hackerspace-adelaide.org.au/
Apple Macintosh Powerbook 165c
Turkish Delight
Altronics Swag - a spinning magnet levitating thingo: http://www.altronics.com.au/
 

Offline gemby

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2015, 05:22:04 pm »
- "What do you prefer? Nipple or balls?"
I prefer nipple, pair of them, thank you very much :-P
 

Offline GNU_Ninja

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2015, 05:32:41 pm »
- "What do you prefer? Nipple or balls?"
I prefer nipple, pair of them, thank you very much :-P

Nipple; I have a Lenovo Thinkpad  ;D
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 05:38:19 pm by GNU_Ninja »
 

Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2015, 05:51:14 pm »
LOL I'm a Year 9 student in Sydney and would love to have the Fluke 8060A, but I can't post pics of my workbench - it's practically empty (I did attach a picture of my very messy spare parts drawer, though)! :palm:
Why do I want it? Well I don't really have a lot of money, so it's difficult for me to buy gear to develop my electronics ability. All I've been doing for the last few months is salvaging a lot of parts from blown PSUs, computers, etc. and saving enough money to buy other components that I can use.  :-[
EDIT: never used a trackball, nipples are better  8)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 08:32:21 pm by crispy_tofu »
 

Online TiN

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 06:38:20 pm »
Yey, Dave gave some love to Keithley DMM finally  >:D

Interesting voltage reference box. Wonder only why custom module was designed for reference, instead of using common LM399..
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 08:04:24 pm »
This was a great mailbag and I did notice that the audio seemed a bit harsh early on, I blew my nose and it came good, probably my end I suspect.

One of my customers works at  hospital looking after instruments and re-stocking medical stuff and I once asked what they did with those alcohol wipes when they are out of date, he explained that they discarded them so I told him to get me some next time around, anyway one day he rang and turned up with a few thousand but I'm now down to a few hundred left, if people dont know where to get them they could perhaps ask their local GP for out of date packets although recently a neighbour did point out that the local supermarket sells them down here, I'm happy with my current supplier.

Put me down for one of Ian's voltage references if he decides to sell them, I did read about them on another thread and visited his site, very impressive and just what I need.

Many Thanks

Muttley
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Offline IanJ

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 08:50:41 pm »
Thanks for the good words on the Voltage Reference Dave.............yep, I have been thinking about making and selling them. I have yet to work out a price based on qty parts so not really sure about pricing yet.

The heater is a bought in item, it's actually a QH40A crystal heater - 40.8degC, +/-1.5degC, 0.1degC resolution. It REALLY makes a difference in stabilizing the Vref.
The Vref itself is a MAX6350 5vdc output, 1ppm/degC and kept stable via the heater.

The panel lettering isn't letraset, it's engraved and paint filled.............needs to robust what with the amount of wild Haggis on the loose here in Scotland!

Ian.
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Manufacturer of the PDVS2
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 08:54:30 pm »
This was a great mailbag and I did notice that the audio seemed a bit harsh early on, I blew my nose and it came good, probably my end I suspect.

Nope, the audio sucked.
It was better when I was away from the mic, but up close behind the cam the auto mic gain doesn't work well. quite harsh compression.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2015, 08:58:49 pm »
Thanks for the good words on the Voltage Reference Dave.............yep, I have been thinking about making and selling them. I have yet to work out a price based on qty parts so not really sure about pricing yet.

Details, details, just start selling them!

Quote
The heater is a bought in item, it's actually a QH40A crystal heater - 40.8degC, +/-1.5degC, 0.1degC resolution. It REALLY makes a difference in stabilizing the Vref.

Ah, interesting, thanks.

Quote
The panel lettering isn't letraset, it's engraved and paint filled.............needs to robust what with the amount of wild Haggis on the loose here in Scotland!

I felt it was raised, that's why!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2015, 08:59:23 pm »
Do you have any long term data on the drift perfromance?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2015, 09:01:31 pm »
if people dont know where to get them they could perhaps ask their local GP for out of date packets although recently a neighbour did point out that the local supermarket sells them down here, I'm happy with my current supplier.

I got mine from the local chemist.
Cheaper on ebay though:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/100-x-Alcohol-Wipes-Medical-Wipes-Medi-Swabs-Sterile-Screen-Cleaners-/111180200877?hash=item19e2db3bad
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2015, 09:06:06 pm »
Do you have any long term data on the drift perfromance?

Not yet but I will look at that soon, the dang day job keeps getting in the way!........probably need a better DMM first. I only have a couple of old Keithley 2015THD (6.5 digit).

Ian.
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Manufacturer of the PDVS2
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2015, 09:07:44 pm »
LOL I'm a Year 9 student in Sydney and would love to have the Fluke 8060A, but I can't post pics of my workbench - it's practically empty (I did attach a picture of my very messy spare parts drawer, though)! :palm:

Good enough, the 8060A is all yours, may it serve you well.
Email me your snail mail address.
 

Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2015, 09:29:14 pm »
LOL I'm a Year 9 student in Sydney and would love to have the Fluke 8060A, but I can't post pics of my workbench - it's practically empty (I did attach a picture of my very messy spare parts drawer, though)! :palm:

Good enough, the 8060A is all yours, may it serve you well.
Email me your snail mail address.

Thanks, it's an honour! PM sent (the email link doesn't work for me)!  :)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2015, 09:49:57 pm »
Thanks, it's an honour! PM sent (the email link doesn't work for me)!  :)

Hmm, you are right, the email icon under peoples user names doesn't work...  :-//
 

Offline SteveLy

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2015, 10:42:24 pm »
Congratulations crispy! You got yourself a classic super accurate meter there. I can't get over how after 30 years and obviously a lot of use, it's still dead on ~100ppm accurate on both voltage and current: an order of magnitude better than spec. Amazing!
 

Offline Artlav

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2015, 11:02:55 pm »
ODB adapter that didn't work, you say?
Sounds like the NSA just succeeded in installing an exploit into Dave's car, and now it is at their mercy.  >:D
( j/k, but seriously it might be just a matter of time before someone sends something nasty into the mailbag... )
Hacking the universe since 2008
Having a life since 2013
 

Offline redshift

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2015, 01:28:18 am »
Dave, you do realize that Istanbul is in Turkey right?
 

Offline zapta

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2015, 01:50:27 am »
The Foscam C1 is only $70 on Amazon (free shipping for Prime). If setting is smooth for the average consumer (a problem with previous Foscams) it will be a hit product. I am going to get me one.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline technix

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2015, 02:30:09 am »
Man I wish I can get that multimeter... Too bad I am in China, and have to drop about US$400 to get a Fluke 87-V/C. Dave next time I am going to send you a dummy load.
 

Offline liviuo

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2015, 02:54:33 am »
Nice episode.  :clap:

Dave forgot the link to the AmpHour episode with Dr Taylor, designer of the Fluke 8060.
Here is the link.
http://www.theamphour.com/180-an-interview-with-dave-taylor-multi-talented-meter-maker/

The audio was ok for me  and to respond to the poll i prefer nipples  ;)
 

Offline chriva

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2015, 04:00:10 am »
Nipple. definitely nipple.  ;D I also own a stinkpad  8)
 

Offline gemby

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2015, 04:01:44 am »
Nice episode.  :clap:

Dave forgot the link to the AmpHour episode with Dr Taylor, designer of the Fluke 8060.
Here is the link.
http://www.theamphour.com/180-an-interview-with-dave-taylor-multi-talented-meter-maker/

The audio was ok for me  and to respond to the poll i prefer nipples  ;)

 :-+
 

Offline PA0PBZ

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2015, 04:22:45 am »
A QZERTY keyboard on the mac, first time I've seen one and had to look it up.
The interwebs says it's Italian so that makes sense of the gui language also.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline kahvikello

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2015, 04:30:18 am »


I'm no aussie but here is pic anyway x3

And yes I love vintage gear! awesome
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2015, 04:49:59 am »
A QZERTY keyboard on the mac, first time I've seen one and had to look it up.
The interwebs says it's Italian so that makes sense of the gui language also.
But apparently owned by an English speaker. Files are "letter to lisa", "job applic", etc.

 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2015, 05:31:02 am »
Thanks, it's an honour!
@crispy_tofu, you will likely need to change all the electrolytic capacitors on the pcb.  Take it apart and check the capacitor bungs to make sure they are not leaking.
 

Offline halexa

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2015, 05:36:08 am »
- "What do you prefer? Nipple or balls?"
I prefer nipple, pair of them, thank you very much :-P
Nipple, best feature of my Lenovo ThinkPad and the awsome keyboard.
 

Offline vlad777

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2015, 06:43:06 am »
I can't have the Fluke, but I can show off.

(You taunt my "OCD", I would like to take it apart and clean it thoroughly)
Mind over matter. Pain over mind. Boss over pain.
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Offline vlad777

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2015, 07:05:49 am »
I think the glass on that spinnie thing, goes other way around.
That is why it broke.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 07:09:34 am by vlad777 »
Mind over matter. Pain over mind. Boss over pain.
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Offline SteveLy

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2015, 07:25:20 am »
Thanks, it's an honour!
@crispy_tofu, you will likely need to change all the electrolytic capacitors on the pcb.  Take it apart and check the capacitor bungs to make sure they are not leaking.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If Dave says he'd rather not tear it down further because he doesn't know how to get the board out, then a beginner should probably best leave it alone. Dave's already had a look and has shown us inside the meter and everything looked fine. We've also seen it working with phenomenal accuracy on various settings.
 

Offline vlad777

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2015, 07:38:50 am »
DVD laser thing is called PDIC,  photo detector integrated circuit.

If you tear down a laser head, from computer DVD, you will see something like this:
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 07:51:03 am by vlad777 »
Mind over matter. Pain over mind. Boss over pain.
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Offline knks

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2015, 09:59:27 am »
Nipple? I prefer to call it clit...
 

Offline knks

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2015, 10:02:17 am »
Dave, if I remember correctly, the ZX Spectrum you had before for tear down was missing many parts.
 

Offline JoshK

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2015, 12:33:13 pm »
Dave -

A lot of the IP cameras tend to have very limited smart phone apps. You may have better luck checking the admin interface via a web browser.
Not that you'll have much of a fun time with that experience, as it tends to be confusing or lacking across most brands.

But the manual has some information about how to get in and look around: http://foscam.us/downloads/User%20Manual_C1.pdf

I scanned that manual and didn't see anything specific to public viewing, but maybe it's in the software anyway. If nothing else, you'll find a host of settings you can tweak if you're so inclined.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2015, 04:41:06 pm »
Thanks for the good words on the Voltage Reference Dave.............yep, I have been thinking about making and selling them. I have yet to work out a price based on qty parts so not really sure about pricing yet.
It really is superb looking DIY.
 

Offline Shred

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2015, 05:45:33 pm »
I remember the PowerBook 165c - I worked as a tech for an Apple dealer when they came out.  The 165c cost megadollars in Australia.  The display was truly horrible, but it was the first colour portable Mac, so people bought them anyway.  The display contrast had to be tweaked frequently as the LCD heated up and the display backlight hammered the battery life.

Like all the early PowerBooks, it was a nice machine to work on though.  Remove the battery and five torx screws and the case split in two with all major components relatively easily accessible.  The designers of modern notebook computers should look long and hard at the design of these machines.
 

Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2015, 09:23:09 pm »
Congratulations crispy! You got yourself a classic super accurate meter there. I can't get over how after 30 years and obviously a lot of use, it's still dead on ~100ppm accurate on both voltage and current: an order of magnitude better than spec. Amazing!

Thank you!  :)

@crispy_tofu, you will likely need to change all the electrolytic capacitors on the pcb.  Take it apart and check the capacitor bungs to make sure they are not leaking.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If Dave says he'd rather not tear it down further because he doesn't know how to get the board out, then a beginner should probably best leave it alone. Dave's already had a look and has shown us inside the meter and everything looked fine. We've also seen it working with phenomenal accuracy on various settings.

I'm sure a liiiitle peek won't hurt  :D
I'll double check the capacitors but I'm not that confident in repairing anything yet!  ;D
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2015, 09:55:08 pm »
I scanned that manual and didn't see anything specific to public viewing

I found a script that supposed allows public viewing by direct IP. But the point with public viewing is that you want some other server handles those public connection, like a content delivery network (CDN). If you don't have that then every connection sucks the video bandwidth from my lab. If 100 people logged on I'd probably exceed my months bandwidth quota in a few days.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2015, 09:56:27 pm »
Congratulations crispy! You got yourself a classic super accurate meter there. I can't get over how after 30 years and obviously a lot of use, it's still dead on ~100ppm accurate on both voltage and current: an order of magnitude better than spec. Amazing!

Thank you!  :)

And I'm going to drop it off personally!
 

Offline SteveLy

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2015, 10:12:15 pm »
I'm sure a liiiitle peek won't hurt  :D
I'll double check the capacitors but I'm not that confident in repairing anything yet!  ;D
Sure. I bet it's all top shelf components that have many more years left in them. Don't forget to grab the incredibly comprehensive official manual: http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a___imeng0300.pdf - it's a ripper!! You can learn a lot from the "Applications" and "Theory of operation" chapters; each section is like a mini electronics lesson.
 

Offline krivx

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2015, 10:14:05 pm »
Large numbers of those 8060as have vomiting electrolytic caps (including mine), there has been quite a bit of discussion about it. If they haven't died they may be just about to. I wouldn't assume that all is good just because the label says Fluke.
 

Offline SteveLy

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2015, 10:14:29 pm »
Ooft, Dave you might want to check your messages...  :-[

don't kill me pls
Oh, this sounds interesting! :popcorn:  >:D
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2015, 10:35:28 pm »
The 8060 battery has a MAR 2008 date. Is that the expiration date?
I wonder how much charge is left and how little must be the meter using it (while still running in full spec).
 

Offline HAnilsen

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2015, 11:51:30 pm »
Dave, you should be careful about the ELM327 readers from China. There are a lot of clones out there, and they're usually slow, and they can cause interference. When I plug it in my car and turn on the ignition, the ABS lamp starts flashing. My reader has a MAC address of AA:BB:CC:11:22:33 or something like that, and it also came with a burned mini CD with a windows program and a key generator for it, so that tells you how much thought they've put into it. I'd not trust an expensive car to some cheap ass Wun Hung-Lo thing. I've that read the genuine ELM327 chips alone costs around 20 euros in bulk.

Edit: Another thing is that modern car has a CAN-BUS network which almost EVERYTHING in the car is connected to, and the CAN technology was never really designed to be connected to the outside world, so there's not much security in that system. If you haven't heard about the Jeep that got hacked on the highway, you may want to check out that.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 11:56:40 pm by HAnilsen »
 

Offline krivx

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2015, 12:49:09 am »
I've that read the genuine ELM327 chips alone costs around 20 euros in bulk.

ELM chips are PICs. The code has been extracted and is widely pirated so it's not surprising that they would be cheap.
 

Offline Godzil

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2015, 08:17:09 am »
@Dave: When doing the teardown of the PowerBook, be really careful as the ABS plastic around the metal insert for the screw break really easily, because it aged badly. I have one of that era and when I wanted to do a tear down to check the inside I just get tons of small plastic bits and was unable to reassemble it correctly.

So be careful as the plastic Apple used at that time is really fragile.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 06:55:57 pm by Godzil »
When you make hardware without taking into account the needs of the eventual software developers, you end up with bloated hardware full of pointless excess. From the outset one must consider design from both a hardware and software perspective.
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Offline Stonent

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2015, 09:17:04 am »
This was a great mailbag and I did notice that the audio seemed a bit harsh early on, I blew my nose and it came good, probably my end I suspect.

Nope, the audio sucked.
It was better when I was away from the mic, but up close behind the cam the auto mic gain doesn't work well. quite harsh compression.

I noticed there was no 720p50 or 1080p50 feed on this one.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2015, 09:19:07 am »
Congratulations crispy! You got yourself a classic super accurate meter there. I can't get over how after 30 years and obviously a lot of use, it's still dead on ~100ppm accurate on both voltage and current: an order of magnitude better than spec. Amazing!

Thank you!  :)

And I'm going to drop it off personally!

 :-+
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2015, 09:21:13 am »
I've that read the genuine ELM327 chips alone costs around 20 euros in bulk.

ELM chips are PICs. The code has been extracted and is widely pirated so it's not surprising that they would be cheap.

STN1110 chips are based on Pic24, cheaper than ELM327 and software compatible.  They are sold by scantool.net
They come in DIP and SMD.

I requested some samples and got some.  I was hoping on hacking one into a chinese dongle, but pic24 has different power requirements than the older PIC based elm327.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2015, 05:32:33 pm »
The meter arrived yesterday, thanks Dave!!  :D (didn't get to meet him though, parents said no  :--  :()

@crispy_tofu, you will likely need to change all the electrolytic capacitors on the pcb.  Take it apart and check the capacitor bungs to make sure they are not leaking.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If Dave says he'd rather not tear it down further because he doesn't know how to get the board out, then a beginner should probably best leave it alone. Dave's already had a look and has shown us inside the meter and everything looked fine. We've also seen it working with phenomenal accuracy on various settings.

I took a closer look at the capacitors and they seemed fine, but I read somewhere on the forum that the leakage might only be evident if the capacitors are removed - I'll definitely replace them once I get more familiar with electronics/soldering  :)

Sure. I bet it's all top shelf components that have many more years left in them. Don't forget to grab the incredibly comprehensive official manual: http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a___imeng0300.pdf - it's a ripper!! You can learn a lot from the "Applications" and "Theory of operation" chapters; each section is like a mini electronics lesson.

Thanks for the tip!! I've read most of it and it's very informative!  ;D

The 8060 battery has a MAR 2008 date. Is that the expiration date?
I wonder how much charge is left and how little must be the meter using it (while still running in full spec).

I believe it is the expiration date. There was about 7.7V left on the battery and it draws about 2.2mA while not doing anything (not sure about full spec). The manual says about 170 hours on a 9V alkaline battery and it apparently uses about 80% of the battery (*cough* batteriser).  :D
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 05:34:50 pm by crispy_tofu »
 

Offline InverseInfinity

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2015, 12:16:37 am »
Thought I'd show my workbench seeing as it's a bit unique :P
I've been teaching myself about electronics by repairing an old Pinball machine I picked up for $50. Been gradually plugging away rebuilding the boards, adding plugs and cleaning it up. Seeing as the playfield isn't all that flat it's become more of a storage space than a workbench and now I've taken over the kitchen table, much to the disdain of the wife ;P 
 

Offline Godzil

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Re: EEVblog #802 - Mailbag
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2015, 01:04:14 am »
$50 for that? Nice!
When you make hardware without taking into account the needs of the eventual software developers, you end up with bloated hardware full of pointless excess. From the outset one must consider design from both a hardware and software perspective.
-- Yokoi Gunpei
 


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