Author Topic: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown  (Read 35854 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jancumps

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1272
  • Country: be
  • New Low
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2015, 08:16:37 pm »
If rigol pulled the video...

I doubt Rigol had anything to do with it.  He's fondled many of their instruments and it was mostly a thumbs up video.

They retweeted the video earlier today. They didn't take it down. It's going to be our weird friend
 

Offline donmr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 155
  • Country: us
  • W7DMR
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2015, 08:34:02 pm »
How can they call it SPAM?  Spam refers to unsolicited electronic messages.  If I ask to see it its not unsolicited.
 

Offline Royce

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 49
  • Country: us
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2015, 08:38:50 pm »
CapXon? Surely they are used to it by now though.

The mongrel hypothesis is a good one too.
 

Offline boffin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2015, 08:59:48 pm »
I'll get the popcorn. 

This is likely to be as much fun to hear, as the story about the guy who had his Siglent scope pulled off ebay.

 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2902
  • Country: us
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2015, 09:06:34 pm »
Looks like the video got pulled by Youtube.
Hope it's back soon.

Well That was BULLCRAP.
Why the Hell did they do that.
Oh Well, another company I will refuse to buy gear from be it used or new.
Go to Hell Rigol.
Sue AF6LJ
 

Offline jancumps

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1272
  • Country: be
  • New Low
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2015, 09:08:14 pm »
Looks like the video got pulled by Youtube.
Hope it's back soon.

Well That was BULLCRAP.
Why the Hell did they do that.
Oh Well, another company I will refuse to buy gear from be it used or new.
Go to Hell Rigol.
I bet they didn't do it.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7799
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2015, 09:10:43 pm »
Of course Rigol didn't pull a favorable teardown. Why the hell would they do that? Probably a mistake somehow.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7799
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2015, 09:13:57 pm »
Another decent quality piece of equipment marred by an offbeat, gimmicky, and in some ways childish, front panel design. This one is nowhere near as bad as the DS1054Z or the ridiculous DP832, but I still think they need a change of personnel in that department.

Just opinions. I like their design ^-^
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2571
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2015, 09:22:01 pm »
Another decent quality piece of equipment marred by an offbeat, gimmicky, and in some ways childish, front panel design. This one is nowhere near as bad as the DS1054Z or the ridiculous DP832, but I still think they need a change of personnel in that department.

Just opinions. I like their design ^-^
Me too. The DP832 is a great design. The DP832A was pretty awful - but they did concede and implement a "classic" UI. It's still not as good as the simple DP832 version though  ;)
 

Offline eeadata

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 47
  • Country: tr
  • Tube - Germanium - Discrete . All about Past
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2015, 09:25:17 pm »
i think CAPXON reports the video..
 

Offline Hydrawerk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2600
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2015, 09:26:57 pm »
This download link does not work for me. http://www.eevblog.org/video/EEVBlog823-RigolDSG815teardown-640x360.m4v
Is there another link available?
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2571
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2015, 09:29:46 pm »
i think CAPXON reports the video..
Oh come on CrapXCon are extremely well known by just about every poor bastard who has had to replace shitty caps on the planet. In fact every one of my fecked up PSU repairs has involved CrapXCon alone. I can only think they haven't rebranded because manufacturers are impressed with their ability to fail immediately outside the 12 month warranty period.
 

Offline dexters_lab

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1890
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2015, 09:32:30 pm »
Looks like the video got pulled by Youtube.
Hope it's back soon.

Well That was BULLCRAP.
Why the Hell did they do that.
Oh Well, another company I will refuse to buy gear from be it used or new.
Go to Hell Rigol.

sorry but there is no evidence yet about who took it down or caused it to be taken down. Waving the finger at Rigol is making an assumption at best  :-//

Offline eeadata

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 47
  • Country: tr
  • Tube - Germanium - Discrete . All about Past
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2015, 09:43:27 pm »
i think CAPXON reports the video..
Oh come on CrapXCon are extremely well known by just about every poor bastard who has had to replace shitty caps on the planet. In fact every one of my fecked up PSU repairs has involved CrapXCon alone. I can only think they haven't rebranded because manufacturers are impressed with their ability to fail immediately outside the 12 month warranty period.

You (and i too) think CAPXON is a Bullshit brand but may be they think they are better than nichicon or nippon or panasonic ...  And dave truely kill the brand in that video ..
 

Offline G0HZU

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3015
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2015, 10:00:46 pm »
I have seen enough in the video to work out an approximate frequency plan for how this sig gen works. Obviously I could do a better guess if I had access to the hardware but this looks like it is heavily based on a Hybrid DDS PLL.
i.e. there is a bank of 3 VCOs that feed a PLL chip and the reference for this PLL chip appears to be a DDS. The big square chip that Dave thought was a DAC is more likely to be a fast DDS. This looks like it gets clocked at about 650MHz by the 2600MHz Zycomm VCO plus a divide by  4 prescaler.

There is also a BFO downconverter that gets its main LO from this fixed /4 signal at approx 650MHz. This BFO presumably provides the lowest range on the generator across 9kHz to the lowish VHF region.

The strange little isolated region in the middle of the PCB looks to be the ALC detector that sets the level accuracy. It presumably is also part of the AM system and so it needs to work very precisely across the whole modulation envelope. So maybe Rigol had to crudely ovenise it to get respectable performance from it across various external temperature changes.

There is an Analog Devices DAC near the big DDS chip. I think it was an AD5449. I guess this is used for the modulation and LF generator output?

The block diagram below is just guesswork and it really needs to be refined and corrected by someone with access to the real hardware so they can correct the frequency ranges etc. But it's (probably) worth posting up as it is because it is a useful starting point at least :).
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 10:16:46 pm by G0HZU »
 
The following users thanked this post: zsellera, dmowziz

Offline G0HZU

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3015
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2015, 10:11:30 pm »
Note that most lab sig gens that use the BFO system for low frequency generation run the BFO Local Oscillator (LO) at ten times the highest frequency.

So with a BFO LO of maybe 650MHz I expected this bottom range to run from 9kHz up to 65MHz rather than up to 100MHz. But I'm not sure if the VCO and prescaler system can get this low in frequency. Maybe it can? So I took a guess at 100MHz.
 

Offline dr.diesel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2214
  • Country: us
  • Cramming the magic smoke back in...
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2015, 10:11:33 pm »
And it's back up!

Offline ElectricGuy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 240
  • Country: pt
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2015, 10:12:06 pm »
it's online!!!!  :popcorn:
Thank you!
Regards
ElectricGuy
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28380
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2015, 10:12:24 pm »
i think CAPXON reports the video..
Oh come on CrapXCon are extremely well known by just about every poor bastard who has had to replace shitty caps on the planet. In fact every one of my fecked up PSU repairs has involved CrapXCon alone. I can only think they haven't rebranded because manufacturers are impressed with their ability to fail immediately outside the 12 month warranty period.

You (and i too) think CAPXON is a Bullshit brand but may be they think they are better than nichicon or nippon or panasonic ...  And dave truely kill the brand in that video ..
There was a recent thread on CAPXON with no reasonable proof they are any worse than other brands of recent manufacture:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/crapxon-engineers-morally-bankrupt/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline bitshape

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: nl
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2015, 10:34:16 pm »
Not only Crapxon, but on the big board also 7 small SamYoung SMD elek.caps. But this time is GP series (general purpose 1000-2000h):   :wtf:
SamYoung BDS (MVK) series:   (Recognizable by the 'K' mark on top.)
Quote
105C 1,000~2,000Hrs assured.
For CD/DVD-ROM, Navigation, LED MT/TV.  :palm:

Would really like to have seen Panasonic FK series here (or other Japanese Nichicon, Rubicon or NipponChemicon low imp. long life & high reliability caps) especially for the starting price-point of this product in EU (€2300,- inclVAT).
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 10:41:36 pm by bitshape »
 

Offline G0HZU

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3015
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2015, 10:54:37 pm »
I marked up one of Dave's images of the RF PCB with a few labels.

Note that this is all just based on guesswork looking at the PCB. But this should agree with my earlier block diagram.

Hope it's (reasonably accurate and) useful :)
 
The following users thanked this post: hajkrem

Online Someone

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4531
  • Country: au
    • send complaints here
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2015, 11:07:58 pm »
Could we see some more detail on that IEC inlet and ground bonding? There are several special features in the PCB, screws, and soldering required to meet international standards for integrity of the earthing, its usually easier to go with the traditional crimped wire to a eyelet held with a shake proof washer.
 

Offline Radio Tech

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 942
  • Country: us
  • KC4UMO Buddy
    • Hobby Forum
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2015, 11:14:53 pm »
Would love to have that on my bench!   :-+

Offline G0HZU

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3015
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2015, 11:19:45 pm »
I'm not completely sure if the big square chip is 'just' a DDS but I think it needs to be able to tune very rapidly in order to support the FM modulation modes. So I think there will be a fast/efficient interface between itself and the big Spartan chip.
So it will need to have some of the features of a DDS. eg tiny frequency resolution (microHertz?) and very fast frequency tuning.
 

Offline bitshape

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: nl
Re: EEVBlog #823 - Rigol DSG815 RF Signal Generator Teardown
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2015, 11:21:48 pm »
BUt that 1000-2000h spec is for caps at 105oC. Doesn't the lifetime get much longer at lower temperatures? I heard something like it doubles for each 10oC lower.

Yeah, but for this equipment-price there are better suited (low imp & high reliability) caps on the market from Panasonic, Nichicon et al.
Also, Dave says the thing is eating 50 Watt's for breakfast! -> I bet those small caps get somewhat Hot around the reg.IC's, possibly failing before Crapxon does.  :-DD


And I don't like the leftside- & sideway-buttons/layout, also spotted a software bug "The instrument's fan has stoped" [28:01]
But further nice design and lot's of quality parts as my eyes could see if we left the E-LyticCaps out.  :-+
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 11:23:42 pm by bitshape »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf