Author Topic: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown  (Read 18975 times)

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Online EEVblog

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EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« on: January 13, 2016, 10:59:53 PM »
Dave tears down a monster of a mixing console!
A Professional 40 channel Yamaha M3000 mixer designed for sound reinforcement and concerts.

 

Offline alexanderbrevig

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 12:13:38 AM »
That's some old school analog mixing console porn :)

Offline obiwanjacobi

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 12:26:09 AM »
Dave mentioned it not being build to a price point, but I think it always is. Adds up these parts for a mixing console so you want to be as efficient as possible.

I have repaired a few of them (although no top studio grade ones - but semi-pro) and they're all sort of built the same (and work the same). Single sided pcb's usually. Although I repaired a Behringer - which is known for being pretty cheap- that had a double sided board, but it was a single board for 8 channels.

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 12:55:13 AM »
I would love a mixer like that - but if I dared suggest I could take it off Dave's hands, I'd be dispatched to the garage and end up sleeping on it.

Nice vid.
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 01:08:22 AM »
Single sided and through-hole is as repair friendly as it gets and those beasts had this aspect on top of their priority list. There should be some scratchy faders as expected in that old guy but the elcos are holding. Ruggedness (hence the chassis brass spine beams), accessible maintenance, and low noise was the name of the game in such stuff. Even low noise Toshiba 2SC2240s seen in the phantom module. I had mixed live music professionally night in-night out on such Yamaha consoles and they were always enough good sounding and dependable for the job.
 

Offline SNGLinks

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 01:13:15 AM »
It could be cut down to make it more usable and get plenty of spares in the process!
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 01:17:14 AM »
I know a guy who has two of those in his house.

Good consoles, not like Midas Heritage 3000 grade of course ($$$), but very honest gear
 

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Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 01:35:28 AM »
Here is it powered up in a short check video I found on YouTube for completeness



 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 01:37:18 AM »
For the non audiophile like myself, what does/did this thing retail for?  Are smick Pro models these days all DSP?

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 01:46:19 AM »
Don't know it's original RRP, but there's a second hand M3000A available in north-east USA for $1,667.00  http://www.gearsource.com/catalog/listing/61907

I thought this was interesting...

Warranty  48 Hours
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2016, 01:48:54 AM »
An M3000 maybe US$2000 but if in top condition rather circa US$5000. A Midas Heritage 3000 in top condition maybe US$30000

 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2016, 02:00:00 AM »
...Are smick Pro models these days all DSP?

Yep, but analogue mixers are still around because of many second hand bargains and straightforwardly fast to operate. Mostly for foldback mixing (for the stage monitoring) not so much front of house (FOH) in bigger events anymore
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2016, 02:12:38 AM »
If you like real audio desk porn, go look for AMS /Neve / Calrec / Euphonix and SSL...
Since the 70s these guys have been making studio consoles that sell for upwards of A$200K
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Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2016, 02:14:27 AM »
Are smick Pro models these days all DSP?

Yep.

I know a guy who has a 96-channel beast at home. It looks a lot like that one but has more LCDs and LEDs.

Every single knob and slider on it is motorized, you can press buttons and every single control moves into position for the track you were working on. Every control also lights up when you touch it (capacitive sensing?) It's a schmick piece of kit.

But these days he doesn't use it much. It's all PC based editing/mixing with multiple monitors.
 

Offline dentaku

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2016, 02:27:08 AM »
I haven't been able to find photos of the pots used in this thing. I know it was too much trouble for Dave to look at that part because you need to remove all the knobs and even more screws. Markus Fuller rarely disassembles those bits anymore too because it's just a lot of the same parts repeated over and over but I always like looking at audio gear and what kind of quality the pots are.
 

Offline halkabar

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2016, 02:55:03 AM »
About a year ago I got hands dirty with a former soviet made analog mixing console... The smell of decades worth of audio engineer sweat is priceless!
 

Offline frogblender

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2016, 04:15:27 AM »
"Bad Ass Semi Corp." - lol.
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2016, 06:10:42 AM »
I think the board under the master control was not fully extended to the right side because that is where the side panel goes on the little brother.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline ciccio

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2016, 08:40:35 AM »
I designed analog mixing console for a living for many years (about 35, with some interruptions).
I hope that this long post will not annoy the readers...

My curiosity pushed me to open every console I could put my hands on, and truly appreciated Yamaha's models for their technical (and sound) quality and reliability and mechanical robustness: this is VERY important: in live tours it was not unusual to repair broken pots when a stage hand walked on the console, or to have a upper panel bent, and all the channel's pots broken, for some mysterious accident (the console fell off the stage).

I remember well an old Midas desk, a model LS4, 32 into 8 into 2, live sound console: a friend bought one in 1980, at the cheap sum of 17,559  pounds ex works (about 60.000 to 100.000 pounds to-day), then the price of a small house..
It sounded extremely well, better than my designs, and was built like a tank (you needed two or four very strong men to move it).
When left in the summer sun, the frame heated and expanded, and channel 1 (the leftmost module) worked intermittently  because it disconnected from the bus PCB. We had to adjust some clearances.

What I can criticise of this Yamaha model (and many other model of the same Company) is the extremely complicated wiring of this console: too many cables, too many connectors, too many wiring looms...
Open a Soundcraft or an Amek of the same age: most of the wiring is done with a flat cable or a bus board connecting all the modules.

I read previous posters asking why there are still analog mixers on the market: the reason is the ease of use in respect to the digital ones: a competent mixing engineer can use any analog mixer after a very short time, whilst any digital mixer is quite different from the others, and there is a step learning curve. If you have a desk in a location that will be used by different mixing engineers, analog is better.

About the single sided vs double side PCB, and the SMD vs through-hole components discussion, you must consider that the channel's PCB main dimension is dictated by the number of controls (pots and switches) and the distance between them, for ease of operation. Most of the times this allows for a single sided board.
The number of boards that will be manufactured is usually very high, especially for input channel's boards (there are from 8 to 48 of them in a desk), so automatic placement of through-hole  parts is economically reasonable (surface mounting is most of the times impractical because a single sided board needs space for traces under the components). Automatic placements allows for a lot of wire jumpers (or Zero Ohm resistors) to be used at almost no cost.
In fact, only the modules that are lower in number (eg master, groups, effects) were double sided.

For consoles that were intended for large numbers, we (and some competitor) used another solution : the channel's PCB was single-sided, and it carried all controls and connectors and some large component, whilst about all of the module's circuitry was on a custom hybrid circuit.
This resulted in a simplified production process (hybrids were tested and adjusted by the supplier, with automatic equipment) and an easier maintenance (if no pot is broken, replace the hybrid).

Now a double sided board of decent quality has about the same cost than a single sided one, so a channel is built with SMD standard parts on a double sided board.

Best regards
Ciccio

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Offline Porto

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2016, 11:29:08 AM »
Bloody Hell......  :palm:
 

Offline AF6LJ

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2016, 11:50:33 AM »
That was fun. :)
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Offline bigsky

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2016, 12:12:47 PM »
Even low noise Toshiba 2SC2240s seen in the phantom module.
The 2SC2240s will be the first stage of the balanced mic preamp before an opamp - a simpler version of the circuit here - http://www.sound.westhost.com/project66.htm - note the position of the gain control, which needs to be a reverse log pot.

The construction of this mixer is rather unusual and reflects its Japanese origin - normally mixers of that size will have a single vertical board for each channel, as ciccio said, either linked by ribbon cable, or plugging into a motherboard.

Despite Dave's lack of knowledge, most of what he said was basically correct - one mistake was that the faders are not high quality - they looked cheap and cheerful carbon track ones, possibly made by Alps. However, they may just control a DC voltage for the VCA rather than passing audio (can't be bothered to read the manual to check).

The digital side of it is almost certainly just programmable mutes for the input channels, possibly for the outputs as well - recallable by the front panel switches or the MIDI input.

Large analogue mixers are pretty much obsolete now as digital (ie DSP) has virtually taken over.
 

Offline SteigsdB

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2016, 01:26:55 PM »
Large analogue mixers are pretty much obsolete now as digital (ie DSP) has virtually taken over.

Bite your tongue! :p

It's true that many tours these days will opt for DigiCo or Avid desks due to the small footprints and built in processing/dynamics, but there are still many engineers who prefer the sound of analog.

The Midas XL4 is one such desk still enjoying its share of road time.  This 270+kg behemoth is pretty much considered the Gold Standard of analog live consoles, and it's substantially easier to disassemble!

 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2016, 01:51:43 PM »
I read previous posters asking why there are still analog mixers on the market: the reason is the ease of use in respect to the digital ones: a competent mixing engineer can use any analog mixer after a very short time, whilst any digital mixer is quite different from the others, and there is a step learning curve. If you have a desk in a location that will be used by different mixing engineers, analog is better.

That digital learning curve is not insignificant.  On an analog mixer you know what each knob does and can see it's state by just looking at it.  There are no 'alternate' functions - what you see is what you have.

FWIW a mixing matrix is a simple enough concept to understand - but is a bit more of a challenge to use effectively.
 

Offline SteigsdB

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2016, 03:03:42 PM »
I think that learning curve has diminished in the past few years.

Just like their analog brethren, the majority of the digital desks on the market still handle signal flow in a somewhat traditional way.  It's gotten to the point that if you can navigate a digital console from manufacturer A, you'll likely be able to find your way around manufacturer B's product with a small amount of digging.  Functions are largely the same but some of the nomenclature varies. 

That being said, you still probably wouldn't want to walk up on one you're not familiar with 5 minutes before you need to use it.
 

Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2016, 03:09:47 PM »
The Midas XL4 is one such desk still enjoying its share of road time.  This 270+kg behemoth is pretty much considered the Gold Standard of analog live consoles, and it's substantially easier to disassemble!
US$26000 used?!  :scared:
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2016, 03:18:04 PM »
Brings back memories of my first career in sound reinforcement. I used the fancier PM3000 and PM4000's for big shows but this model was similar in size. No problem when you have fork lifts and 100 huge guys to move it around.

These things were VERY basic in that they mix and offer parametric equalization. All effects and dynamics control have to loop through to many racks of processing. It kept the FOH engineers very very busy compared to today's integrated digital systems that can be automated. Any minute problem with anything would create noise and buzzing that was a PITA to track down.

Good memories and bad memories. I don't miss analog for a second.
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Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2016, 03:18:11 PM »
what's to prevent someone from simply hooking up all the pots to 10 bit adc's , collect their state over usb and then stream in audio using a MOTU.
has been done. feels like an analog machine but fits in a 1 u 19 inch unit...

mixing happens in digital domain.

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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2016, 03:24:09 PM »
10bits?
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Offline DrGeoff

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2016, 03:36:18 PM »
If you like real audio desk porn, go look for AMS /Neve / Calrec / Euphonix and SSL...
Since the 70s these guys have been making studio consoles that sell for upwards of A$200K

Yep, and the channels strips are individually replaceable. Much more serviceable in a short space of time.


Was it really supposed to do that?
 

Offline coppice

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2016, 03:42:19 PM »
If you like real audio desk porn, go look for AMS /Neve / Calrec / Euphonix and SSL...
Since the 70s these guys have been making studio consoles that sell for upwards of A$200K

Yep, and the channels strips are individually replaceable. Much more serviceable in a short space of time.
That's great for studio desks, but its hard to get the robustness you need for mobile use with all those separate little front panel pieces.
 

Offline DrGeoff

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2016, 03:44:25 PM »
Brings back memories of my first career in sound reinforcement. I used the fancier PM3000 and PM4000's for big shows but this model was similar in size. No problem when you have fork lifts and 100 huge guys to move it around.

These things were VERY basic in that they mix and offer parametric equalization. All effects and dynamics control have to loop through to many racks of processing. It kept the FOH engineers very very busy compared to today's integrated digital systems that can be automated. Any minute problem with anything would create noise and buzzing that was a PITA to track down.

Good memories and bad memories. I don't miss analog for a second.

Yeah, likewise. Dodgy channel strips, re-patching the back panel because one strip decided to pick up the local radio station etc etc.
Then again, easier to re-patch then to deal with a crash and re-boot in the middle of a gig :)

Was it really supposed to do that?
 

Offline SteigsdB

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2016, 05:44:06 PM »
The Midas XL4 is one such desk still enjoying its share of road time.  This 270+kg behemoth is pretty much considered the Gold Standard of analog live consoles, and it's substantially easier to disassemble!
US$26000 used?!  :scared:

They sold new for just over US$100k.

Pocket change though compared to this Calrec Apollo that will run you, as configured, just shy of US$1M.



BTW, Dave I have to say as I watch your videos and a lot of the tech you describe goes right over my head, it was fun to watch you wander around that Yamaha a bit lost on the items I use everyday. Great video!

 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2016, 06:23:51 PM »
Pocket change though compared to this Calrec Apollo that will run you, as configured, just shy of US$1M.

Obsolete tech. Now it's all like this:


 

Offline SteigsdB

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2016, 06:32:28 PM »
The raven is a cool piece of gear, indeed.

You'd never mix the superbowl on one though.  :-+
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2016, 06:50:36 PM »
The raven is a cool piece of gear, indeed.

You'd never mix the superbowl on one though.  :-+

I only posted that one because the picture was pretty and it shows the way things are going. I'm sure there's one out there that you can mix the Superbowl on.

(But will it cost less than $1 million?  And will it be roadie-proof? I'm guessing that thing isn't meant to be taken on the road... :popcorn:)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 06:57:52 PM by Fungus »
 

Offline SteigsdB

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2016, 08:03:25 PM »
I'm guessing that thing isn't meant to be taken on the road... :popcorn:)

Actually, that's exactly what it's setup for. It's in here:



This truck, and the other one that accompanies and completes it, were built for NBC's Nascar coverage by Game Creek video.  I was with a crew that used it for college football afterwards.  The truck(s) that end up at the superbowl will be very similar designs.

It'd be awesome to see Dave do a teardown on one of the Kalypso switchers..  >:D

 

Offline ciccio

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2016, 08:05:12 PM »

Yep, and the channels strips are individually replaceable. Much more serviceable in a short space of time.
That's great for studio desks, but its hard to get the robustness you need for mobile use with all those separate little front panel pieces.

This is not true: a module holding 8 channel strips is less resistant to flex than 8 single strip modules (the panels are usually U-shaped).
The reason for multiple channel modules is economical (the cost is lower) and, sometimes more important, that you can pack more channels in the same space (there is no wasted space from the sides of the single, u-shaped panels) : if the modules are built using 1 mm thick sheet metal, you lose 2 mm (plus the necessary tolerance, plus paint thickness), let's say 3 mm each channel. Multiply this for a 64 modules frame and you lose the space for  3-4 modules. This can be important, especially when the console size is fixed by other reasons, as for rack mountable small units.

It is usually easier to fix a console built with single modules.

Best regards
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 08:07:06 PM by ciccio »
Ciccio

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Offline Chasm

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2016, 08:28:44 PM »

It'd be awesome to see Dave do a teardown on one of the Kalypso switchers..  >:D




There are a few videos where the Kayenne is down to module level, there should be some for the Kalypso too.


The control surfaces are heaps of reed switches for the most part. OLED displays and RBG leds too.


Edit: Don't ever use the Toggle View button, it fsks up your post...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 08:31:17 PM by Chasm »
 

Offline adh

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2016, 08:29:39 PM »
Pocket change though compared to this Calrec Apollo that will run you, as configured, just shy of US$1M.

Obsolete tech. Now it's all like this:



When we though about designing modular low-cost-ish control surface (primarily for DMX control, but digital mixing was also considered) e thought that either multitouch monitor or just capacitive touch sensors and LEDs were the way to go. But apparently, for usability it's important to have physical faders and knobs for tactile feedback and ability to discern position of control by touch.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2016, 08:57:00 PM »
I'm guessing that thing isn't meant to be taken on the road... :popcorn:)

Actually, that's exactly what it's setup for. It's in here:

This truck, and the other one that accompanies and completes it, were built for NBC's Nascar coverage by Game Creek video.  I was with a crew that used it for college football afterwards.  The truck(s) that end up at the superbowl will be very similar designs.

I guess there's "on the road" and "on the road!".
 

Offline orion242

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2016, 12:47:33 PM »
I haven't been able to find photos of the pots used in this thing.

Ditto.

I was hoping to see what the hell they use for pots in the thing.  A quick tear down (datasheet if lucky) look of the actual look of the slider and pots used should be interesting.  Can't blame Dave for not wanting to pull 300 knobs, 200 screws, etc to free a board to look at the top side.  Hacking the bastard open with a metal saw and simply cutting one out via all means necessary would have been my access method.  Right angle grinder with carbide blade would liberate one in < 5min....so much for finding a taker after that though

Must say the sliders on the outside look pretty boring, but I have to assume these are not your $0.25 cheapies on ebay.  Being shipped around and expected to last, they must be the brick dunny of pots. 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 12:54:19 PM by orion242 »
 

Offline westfw

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2016, 12:57:00 PM »
Quote
A quick tear down look of the actual look of the slider and pots used should be interesting.
Ditto; I was hoping to see the pots/switches closer up, and how they were connected to the PCBs.  (I didn't see pot-like connections to the PCBs in the video; was there another layer, or some sort of wiring harness?)
 

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2016, 01:05:42 PM »
Penny & Giles supplied many of the linear pots for high-end audio. Wonder who made these. The M3000 is the low-end of the high-end of the day.
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Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2016, 10:37:16 PM »
When we though about designing modular low-cost-ish control surface (primarily for DMX control, but digital mixing was also considered) e thought that either multitouch monitor or just capacitive touch sensors and LEDs were the way to go. But apparently, for usability it's important to have physical faders and knobs for tactile feedback and ability to discern position of control by touch.
It might be good to have half a dozen physical knobs as well (user assignable).

They'd have to be motorized of course. Motorized sliders are cool. Ghostly.

 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2016, 06:34:13 AM »
Penny & Giles supplied many of the linear pots for high-end audio. Wonder who made these. The M3000 is the low-end of the high-end of the day.

Enough PM5000s still kicking around and appreciated nonetheless. One such unit featured in this vid.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 06:36:32 AM by Salas »
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2016, 07:34:50 AM »
Despite Dave's lack of knowledge, most of what he said was basically correct - one mistake was that the faders are not high quality - they looked cheap and cheerful carbon track ones, possibly made by Alps. However, they may just control a DC voltage for the VCA rather than passing audio (can't be bothered to read the manual to check).

Yes, the M3000 was a VCA desk so the channel (and group) faders did not pass audio, just the control voltage.
 

Offline bob808

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2016, 09:48:47 AM »
I'd love me two of those vu-meters  :bullshit:
 

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2016, 10:25:55 AM »
 

Offline bob808

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2016, 10:27:14 AM »
They look even better as they are round! Thx
 

Offline SteigsdB

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2016, 01:02:26 PM »
Enough PM5000s still kicking around and appreciated nonetheless. One such unit featured in this vid.

Man, that's a lot of 160's in that rack..  Nice mix of vintage and early digital processing in the outboard too.

Interesting that there was a Galileo processor in there when the PA looked to be all V-Dosc.

Was that just a random find or do you know whos rig that was?
 

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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2016, 02:35:27 PM »
Not surprising.  Once you're in the digital domain, noise figures essentially become inconsequential.  Propagation delay is more of a concern - but with the performance of today's electronics, I would expect that is well in hand.
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2016, 11:09:04 PM »
Enough PM5000s still kicking around and appreciated nonetheless. One such unit featured in this vid.

Man, that's a lot of 160's in that rack..  Nice mix of vintage and early digital processing in the outboard too.

Interesting that there was a Galileo processor in there when the PA looked to be all V-Dosc.

Was that just a random find or do you know whos rig that was?

Random find but I would easily bet its a French reinforcement contractor's system
 

Offline djQUAN

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2016, 02:50:56 AM »
"Bad Ass Semi Corp." - lol.

BA part numbers are by Rohm Semiconductors.

It is an led vu meter driver.
http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Rohm%20PDFs/BA682A.pdf
 

Offline Godzil

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2016, 03:08:05 AM »
I would be really interested in what an Audiophile/fool would think about the construction of such a (real) pro material :D
I'm sure they would be really disapointed :D
When you make hardware without taking into account the needs of the eventual software developers, you end up with bloated hardware full of pointless excess. From the outset one must consider design from both a hardware and software perspective.
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Offline German_EE

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2016, 07:51:30 AM »
Oh yeah. no special cables, no magic rocks, no wooden knobs to avoid adding 'color' to the sound, just solid engineering.

One thing I really learned from this video is that in a complicated system like a mixer ground is GROUND, something substantial and (hopefully) noise free where parts are connected together by thick copper straps. Everything on that ground bus is therefore at 0,000 volts DC and AC.
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Offline rx8pilot

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2016, 08:36:21 AM »
Oh yeah. no special cables, no magic rocks, no wooden knobs to avoid adding 'color' to the sound, just solid engineering.

One thing I really learned from this video is that in a complicated system like a mixer ground is GROUND, something substantial and (hopefully) noise free where parts are connected together by thick copper straps. Everything on that ground bus is therefore at 0,000 volts DC and AC.

I was a former audiofool in my younger days. When I got into professional sound reinforcement and recording my eyes opened to reality. Even in multi-millin dollar studios, I could not find the ridiculous pseudo-science found in high-end consumer audio. It was very deliberate and clean electronic designs that were very carefully system integrated. Lots of attention paid to clean grounds as stated earlier. Most studios had a technical ground that was far away from mechanical - air conditioning and lights, etc. Microphones had some amount of mystery and voodoo in the marketing, followed by pre-amps.

In live sound, durability, flexibility, etc were dominant design drivers. Audio quality needed to be good, but not exotic. Anyway, my views formed from ridiculous audiophile magazine articles quickly faded. I also learned that the last thing that I wanted my music to sound like is what it sounded like in the studio. The engineering goal in a studio is to get a flat mix with reasonable dynamics so that it sound reasonable in as many environments as possible - home, car, headphones, cassette, CD, LP, etc. I always tweaked my own playback systems to sound the way I like, not some super flat Urei coaxial time aligned studio monitor with Yamaha NS10's as the shit reference.

I like music and great quality playback - but the audio foolishness makes me laugh every day.
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Offline alexanderbrevig

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2016, 03:49:46 AM »
@rx8pilot did you try to use one of those NS10 bass drivers as kick drum mic? If you're in the recording business you should try that, makes for fun times playing with the real low end.
In my side business as a live audio engineer I use Soundcraft Si. It is a dream to work with   :)

Offline rx8pilot

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2016, 10:23:36 AM »
@rx8pilot did you try to use one of those NS10 bass drivers as kick drum mic? If you're in the recording business you should try that, makes for fun times playing with the real low end.
In my side business as a live audio engineer I use Soundcraft Si. It is a dream to work with   :)

I traded my budding career in audio for TV/Film production. Never used the NS10 in the opposite direction, sounds like a fun experiment though. I would like to build my own studio for my own use someday. As soon as it becomes a career, it becomes work. I like sound reinforcement and recording too much to ruin it by getting paid, lol.  :-+

The Si is insanely compact for what it does. The last Soundcraft I used was a Europa which was roughly the size and weight of Europe.
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Offline SteigsdB

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2016, 02:34:08 PM »
The last Soundcraft I used was a Europa which was roughly the size and weight of Europe.

No doubt, plus once in the case it wouldn't fit sideways in a standard truck.

Really messed up the truck tetris :)
 

Offline madisv

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Re: EEVblog #840 - Yamaha M3000 Mixing Console Teardown
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2017, 07:10:09 PM »
Hi guys
Here's one more video of destroying the console, this time in a bit more brutal way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8UoPj0IW5E&feature=youtu.be
The background is, that Yamaha had a discount program for new consoles. You just had to prove that you have destroyed the old one.
As you see, it didn't break easily :)
 


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