EEVBlog #862 - BK Precision 8601 DC Electronic Load

[djw]

With the 8600 series, are the RS-232 and USB ports isolated from the load?

[jitter]

I was wondering why BK Precision doesn't just sue Maynuo... and then it struck me, they can't.
If I'm not mistaken, BK precision is based in Taiwan and Maynuo in mainland China. Those two countries don't really have what you would call a love affair.

But perhaps BK Precision is copying some ideas from Maynuo in return. Maynuo was first with a dual line dot matrix display, and also the LED-mode seems to have been present on Maynuo's loads first.

[Macbeth]

I believe Maynuo are the more honourable company. BK are price gouging. The ITech stuff is cheaper than BK too.

I've not needed a load particularly as I have got by with an array of old toasters, incandescent bulbs, hairdryers, and high watt ceramic resistors

But the China Market Maynuo M9710 which is apparently the same as their export market M9711 which Gerry Sweeney gave a great review of is only ~£190 including DHL delivery on AliExpress - I couldn't resist.

Supposedly the M9710 uses "lower grade" components for the cheaper price. If I wasn't so cynical I would have paid the extra £50 or so for the M9711 label, but I prefer the gamble and will do a teardown and compare with Gerrys. 

As for the isolated RS232/USB. I intend to hardwire a cheap bluetooth serial board in there for the ultimate in isolation, so no need for that pricey M133 cable. 

[LyCannon]

I couldn't help but notice that you weren't actually using MS Excel at all, but LibreOffice. If the software is expecting to drop the data straight into Excel, then, could it be that the option is disabled as it has detected that Excel isn't actually installed on the computer.

LabView uses the Excel Interop Assemblies which require Excel to be installed. It would be nice if the software told you that though...

[jitter]

I believe Maynuo are the more honourable company. BK are price gouging. The ITech stuff is cheaper than BK too.

BK Precision aren't exactly strangers to rebranding and selling for a premium. I have a V&A VA520 LCR/ESR meter which cost me € 139 bought in a local store. At the time (about a year ago) it was also available as BKP in their colours for at least € 100 more. I didn't find it listed in BKP's product range anymore, now most look like Keysights in BKP's livery...
Edit: correction, I mixed up BK Precision and PeakTech here. It was the PeakTech 2170 that I had seen for a hefty premium, not a BK Precision.

But the China Market Maynuo M9710 which is apparently the same as their export market M9711 which Gerry Sweeney gave a great review of is only ~£190 including DHL delivery on AliExpress - I couldn't resist.

Supposedly the M9710 uses "lower grade" components for the cheaper price. If I wasn't so cynical I would have paid the extra £50 or so for the M9711 label, but I prefer the gamble and will do a teardown and compare with Gerrys. 

That's very interesting. I believe he, or someone else on this forum, tried to get the "China only" model, and Maynuo declined to send it. My M9812 only has A-brand parts in it that also seem to be genuine. So I wonder if that China only model uses what the "Shenzen market" has to offer (knock offs, "recycled", etc.). I'm really looking forward to seeing your teardown.

[EEVblog]

I believe Maynuo are the more honourable company. BK are price gouging. The ITech stuff is cheaper than BK too.

If they did steal the IP as claimed, then no, they aren't honourable.
Doesn't matter how cheap they are or how much they innovate after the fact.

[nwvlab]

Nice vid

17.55: although the heatsink may be grounded as well, there is very little clearance between the screw of the power MOSFET and the chassis! Or maybe it's just the perspective?

[mcinque]

If the improvements of the BK version (quad display, resolution, transients, rise time, good software etc.) was available years ago from Maynuo, how can you state that Maynuo is copying BK?

What THEY (BK and Maynuo) tell to us is irrelevant: they can tell us a nice story to change our opinion about the competitor, so the only thing we can use to understand who is copying who are the product features.

IMO, Maynuo had the features of the new BK years ago. So it's quite strange that Maynuo is copying BK...

[Macbeth]

BK has their finger in every pie, and are known for rebadging equipment and adding their markup. Mayuno specialise in electronic loads and PSU's only. As they are cheaper by far I expect BK sources their stuff from them.

I wouldn't trust any gossip from biased salesmen.

[mcinque]

If they did steal the IP as claimed

it's claimed by BK. While Maynuo say a different story. We can't know the real details, that are only words said by marketing/sales people.
Both company could have adapted the story to make us believe they're the good and other the bad.
We can't judge without knowing the details.

So saying "Maynuo is a rip-off" it's wrong IMO.

[mcinque]

That's very interesting. I believe he, or someone else on this forum, tried to get the "China only" model, and Maynuo declined to send it

Because (hearing Maynuo) that model is for internal market because has lower quality and a "high repair rate" (at a low price): they can easily arrange a return and a repair within the chinese territory but certainly not overseas. So they don't sell that model overseas.

Don't know if it's true but it can have sense in China.

Some "smart" guy place that model on aliexpress shipping from china.

[jitter]

BK has their finger in every pie, and are known for rebadging equipment and adding their markup. Mayuno specialise in electronic loads and PSU's only. As they are cheaper by far I expect BK sources their stuff from them.

I wouldn't trust any gossip from biased salesmen.

Comparing several Itech/BKP/Maynuo items, I noticed that Itech/BKP use quite a few different display layouts whereas Maynuo seems to stick to a simple 4 quadrant dot matrix with all the same size letters and numbers. So when I stumbled across an Itech using a Maynuo style display, I first thought that maybe they were just using the same display and chose to put everything in exactly the same place as their "nemesis". And then I thought: yeah, right... maybe that Itech just is a Maynuo after all...  Of course I looked a bit more and wasn't surprised to find the same display being used by BKP as well.

Industrial espionage? My ass! IMO, they're all affiliated and we're being told porkies by someone who's overpricing... 
Come to think of it, this may also be the real reason for them not sueing one another...

[dadler]

I posted info about the 8600 model back in April of 2015:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bk-precision-8600-electronic-load-teardown-photosreview/

Personally, I don't think the build quality is all that great. The software really sucks.

[motocoder]

I posted info about the 8600 model back in April of 2015:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bk-precision-8600-electronic-load-teardown-photosreview/

Personally, I don't think the build quality is all that great. The software really sucks.

I am so paranoid of buying brands with no English-speaking office. I have an Array 3720A. I am unable to calibrate it, and unable to update its firmware. The software just doesn't work. I have no idea what the issue is, because the only person that responds to their emails speaks just enough English to generate complete and total confusion. I went round and round and round with her, on two separate occasions, to no positive conclusion.

Now I see threads about people with Maynuo's not being able to calibrate them. They say that they hear it's possible, but were not able figure out how to get it to work. This sounds like *exactly* the same problem. So perhaps ITech and BK are the same hardware, and Maynuo is just as good a product, and the BK costs more than the other two. However, if buying from BK Precision means I get a manual written in English, software that works and which displays English error messages, and someone who can provide support to non-Chinese speakers if it's not working, than this is money well spent IMHO.

[EEVblog]

If they did steal the IP as claimed

it's claimed by BK. While Maynuo say a different story.

What is their story? I have not heard it.

So saying "Maynuo is a rip-off" it's wrong IMO.

Itech have been around a long time, and it's not disputed that Mr Maynuo (I don't now his real name) left Itech and started Maynuo, and then bam, products that look and feel almost identical emerge.
To deny that there is ripping-off being done is a ludicrous position to hold, it's demonstrably untrue.
The only question is whether or not Maynuo stole the IP as claimed. In either case the fact remains they are "rip-offs". They have been deliberately designed to look and work very similar to the original Itech's. This cannot be denied, it's an obvious fact.
Now it could very well be the case that the Maynuo "rip-off's" are actually better than the originals in some ways, and that's a different argument. But the fact is they are still rip-off's, so IMO it's certainly the right word to use.

From a design point of view, if you left a company and started your own to produce similar products, and you didn't take the IP, why would you go to the effort to engineer them again to look and feel almost identical?
Sorry, but the case does not look good for Maynuo being an innocent party here.

[Macbeth]

Dave, there are no actual facts here. Just rumour mongering, with lots of "chinese whispers". As far as I am concerned the Maynuo are very respectable and cheap loads. They only make DC loads and sources. Of course they probably don't make them at all, but rebadge something from deeper mainland china "DC Load City" purpose built for nothing but this stuff. They even have whole cities of thousands of workers geared up to producing nothing but bathroom taps, cutlery, and adult vibrating massagers for example. It's the communist mentality. The millionaires just stick a front company and sales office on top of all that cheap commie labour.

I'm sure BK get theirs from communist "DC Load City" too. They choose their options for their markets. Maynuo get theirs from the same source but have a different target market. Indeed, my M9710 I hope to tear down is meant to be a China only market model. The excuses like "China people don't worry and expect shit to be sent back and repaired all the time" doesn't wash with me. The simple change of a digit on the faceplate and trying to control markets is what I see here. 

Hopefully I get it soon as nobody in the free world appears to have one yet 

[EEVblog]

And BTW, for those wondering why I mentioned Maynuo being a "rip-off" in the BK Precision video is because, well, I'm reviewing a BK Precision unit. Maynuo have always sold very deceptively similar looking  loads, and many viewers might think they are the same thing just rebadged. They are most certainly not the same as the Itech or BK Precision units. I don't want viewers to be under any misapprehension.
BK Precision is Itech:
http://www.bkprecision.com/about-us.html

If Maynuo want to send me their load and tell me their side of the story, then they are most welcome to.
Until they do that I can only go on what I have been told, what the evidence implies, and what my spidey-sense tells me, that Maynuo's are "rip-off's".

[Macbeth]

If Maynuo want to send me their load and tell me their side of the story, then they are most welcome to.
Until they do that I can only go on what I have been told, what the evidence implies, and what my spidey-sense tells me, that Maynuo's are "rip-off's".

What if Maynuo are just another marketing division of the ultimate parent company, and it suits the parent company to boost the profile of the higher priced BK version? There is no reason to send the Maynuo to you as it defeats the purpose of the promo stunt. BK seem to me nothing but re-labellers, perhaps with a custom designed display panel, but the fundamental circuit and case are all the same. I would guess the IP involved is just the display panel.

Let's not forget the nonsense that IET have come up with rebadging the DER EE-5000 and more than doubling the price. (BTW, I think there are loads of EEV fans who would like to see a shootout and explanation of LCR meters, including pitching the IET vs the DER and all the others) but that's another topic.

ETA: Anyway, I have purchased the bottom of the range Maynuo china only load, and will provide a tear down (if I get it now that Maynuo are probably aware of this thread and will stop the AliExpress dropshipper in her tracks!)

[kmel]

Back in 2012 I asked Maynuo: "Who is the OEM, you or ITech Electronics? Or do you have both the same OEM?

Kate Zhou answered:
Our boss Mr Xiao Tony used to work for Array and ITECH as their cheif designer. He designed the Array 37xx and IT/BK85XX electronic loads. However, this does not means, among of the three manufacturers, Array is orginal and ITECH or MAYNUO is copies or OEM. Each has its own pattern. ITECH started in 2005 and Maynuo started in 2009.

[jitter]

And BTW, for those wondering why I mentioned Maynuo being a "rip-off" in the BK Precision video is because, well, I'm reviewing a BK Precision unit. Maynuo have always sold very deceptively similar looking  loads, and many viewers might think they are the same thing just rebadged.

Yes, that was my first impression too, and as you may have noticed, I'm not that sure it's a case of foul play. I mean, creating devices that look almost identical since 2009-2016, and still neither of the two (Maynuo vs BKP/Itech) chose to alter the appearance to set it apart from the other? Edit: maybe BKP/Itech have with the change to rounded buttons.

They are most certainly not the same as the Itech or BK Precision units. I don't want viewers to be under any misapprehension.

My Maynuo is definitely not identical to a BKP inside or out. But certainly by the same designer, the similarities are just too great to be a coincidence.
But now that BKP has a new DC load that's clearly a continued development of the old one, I'm curious to see what Maynuo comes up with. Although, that BKP in the vid isn't that new judging by the datecodes (including the PCB) being no older than early 2015.
If they don't match it exactly, then yeah, maybe Maynuo was a less than legal spin off. If so, the original design would be taken further by Maynuo and BKP independently, and the differences should become bigger as time progresses. If not, then maybe Maynuo might just be an OEM for Itech/BKP after all...

BK Precision is Itech:
http://www.bkprecision.com/about-us.html

If Maynuo want to send me their load and tell me their side of the story, then they are most welcome to.
Until they do that I can only go on what I have been told, what the evidence implies, and what my spidey-sense tells me, that Maynuo's are "rip-off's".

I hope Maynuo will!

[BloodyCactus]

I have an itech 8512+ and really like it. great little load that apart from one hiccup I posted on the forum has been really great.  doesnt have the BK's fancy outputs the 86xx models have tho. you can see there is some extra effort/design in the bk from the current it85xx range. I dont know if itech put out an 86xx range yet.

[jitter]

I have an itech 8512+ and really like it. {zip} I dont know if itech put out an 86xx range yet.

I think they do but call it the 8900 series (they already had an 8600 series, which is a bit of a different beast...)

Itech lists only the IT8912E, a 300 W/500 V/15 A DC-load. I also found a 500 V version in BKP's lineup, but not yet in their 8600 series.
Funny... Maynuo has also added a 500 V version to their range: the M9812B.

I wonder what is needed to turn a 120-150 V model into a 500 V model...

Edit: hmm, I just came across this thread of an Applent AT8612. Now that one also has some striking similarities... is that a rip-off too? (oooh, I just love the looks of that sexy R-core transformer.)

[mcinque]

What is their story? I have not heard it.

Their story is that the engineer that designed the DC load wasn't paid by BK for his job, so he took his designs, left BK and founded Maynuo. But like BK's story, it's a story.

Until they do that I can only go on what I have been told, what the evidence implies, and what my spidey-sense tells me, that Maynuo's are "rip-off's".

It's your opinion and of course it's respectable.

But since your videos have a huge authority and influence (IMO), saying that opinion as a fact writing "Maynuo ARE rip-off" and not as a thought "in my opinion/for me Maynuo are Rip-Off" (toghether with "BK has some added value"), can inadvertently and unnecessarily improve the reputation of BK (other than make someone doubt that you're rooting for BK, while I bet it's not: you have always been honest and impartial in your reviews  ).

In two words, I think that with great authority and influence comes great responsibility: just with a couple of words you can influence a lot of viewers.

[grouchobyte]

Sorry to hijack the current discussion regarding the legitimacy of these brands but I would like to kindly request  some assistance of a techinal nature. Somewhere in this thread or another forum, there was talk of a mod to speedup the response of the shaft encoder using a pic or micro controller, specifically on the Maynuo. Would anyone here happen to know anything about that and if so would you mind posting some details or PMing me.

Thanks.

[motocoder]

Sorry to hijack the current discussion regarding the legitimacy of these brands but I would like to kindly request  some assistance of a techinal nature. Somewhere in this thread or another forum, there was talk of a mod to speedup the response of the shaft encoder using a pic or micro controller, specifically on the Maynuo. Would anyone here happen to know anything about that and if so would you mind posting some details or PMing me.

Thanks.

Might be worth starting another thread if you don't get a response here. I haven't got any responses to my query either. Seems this thread is all about the BK/Itech/Array/Maynuo butthurt.