Author Topic: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!  (Read 33585 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2016, 08:11:22 PM »
It makes you wonder where you can go for reliable information - products like this and Batteriser winning awards, some of them from purported technical publications. Clearly they are handing out these awards based on "it looks cool" not anything scientific. And of course when the average person who lacks the ability to actually analyze these things sees that it won an award from what is supposed to be an authority on the technical details, they jump right in and back the campaign. If I were REALLY cynical I'd say it was all collusion.  >:D

Even many engineers might not sniff a problem with this at first look, they'd have smell a rat in order to dig deeper and research and do the calcs.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #101 on: May 31, 2016, 09:31:02 PM »
The general public are losing touch with solid science and engineering protocol e.g. proof of concept. Now everyone has a smart phone and can tweet and comment, they think they are an expert just because they have the ability to talk about it.

There's nothing wrong with the basic scientific principles of this and it will produce water.

(just not as much as you'd imagine...)
 

Offline daqq

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #102 on: May 31, 2016, 10:20:36 PM »
Quote
(just not as much as you'd imagine...)
The proper term for this is:

* - Results may vary.
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Offline martinr33

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #103 on: September 20, 2016, 11:55:25 AM »
There's an update. They have partnered with a company that has a material with "cooling conduciveness of more than 30 times copper!".

(heat pipe, maybe)?



I guess they are going to try to fix the problem with a better cooler. Which can't possibly work, as the cooler isn't the problem.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #104 on: September 20, 2016, 01:40:29 PM »
Quote
Good news!
Dear Supporters,
Thank you for your patience in waiting for this update. We have been waiting several weeks for different suppliers in order to assemble our new wave of prototypes. Apparently the summer here in California is taken more seriously than we thought!

I am in Los Angeles overseeing the technical development and supporting the team that has been tirelessly working on the heart technology of Fontus. They have been able to integrate a new type of material composition that has a cooling conduciveness of more than 30 times copper! (copper being one of the highest conductor materials used in the industry). This combined with our new design for the condenser of the bottle will create condensation substantially better than most of the dehumidifiers we have been deconstructing and analysing in the last months.

We are starting to design the next wave of core technology prototypes together with the suppliers and are eager to see how those perform. In early August we made a strategic decision to partner with the company in charge of technical development enabling us to save large costs and settle a base in LA near to most of our suppliers for better communication. We are already working together with other strategic development partners to help us with the final design modifications, tooling, and start of the manufacturing process.

The staggered development and more specifically, the supply chain management and logistics for the first prototypes have been advancing slower than we expected. We are hoping to make up for the down time after the prototyping phase is over.  Up to now, many decisions we have taken were based on being cost-sensitive in exchange for slightly slower processes.  However, we are not expecting any additional delays from this milestone out, should the schedule be impacted we will advise all of you in follow on updates.

Have a nice week!
Kristof

LOL how they talk about supply chain management and still working on prototypes and materials in the same update  :palm:
No data or test results provided of course, because, well, that would be embarrassing.
 

Offline JimRemington

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #105 on: September 20, 2016, 02:52:01 PM »
I was daydreaming about sitting in a coffee shop, sipping from my endless glass of Fontus water, while charging my phone with uBeam ultrasonic waves, then it hit me: Hey, what if we power the Fontus with ultrasonic beams so that it works indoors too?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 03:26:36 PM by JimRemington »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2016, 05:29:16 PM »
Fontus will always be in the same boat as Batteriser and uBeam. Once they ship something then the game will be up on how piss-poor it works and by how many orders of magnitude it doesn't meet it's claims.
 

Offline Geonerd

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #107 on: October 31, 2016, 12:11:41 PM »
Quote
Good news!
Dear Supporters,
Thank you for your patience in waiting for this update. We have been waiting several weeks for different suppliers in order to assemble our new wave of prototypes. Apparently the summer here in California is taken more seriously than we thought!

I am in Los Angeles overseeing the technical development and supporting the team that has been tirelessly working on the heart technology of Fontus. They have been able to integrate a new type of material composition that has a cooling conduciveness of more than 30 times copper! (copper being one of the highest conductor materials used in the industry). This combined with our new design for the condenser of the bottle will create condensation substantially better than most of the dehumidifiers we have been deconstructing and analysing in the last months.

We are starting to design the next wave of core technology prototypes together with the suppliers and are eager to see how those perform. In early August we made a strategic decision to partner with the company in charge of technical development enabling us to save large costs and settle a base in LA near to most of our suppliers for better communication. We are already working together with other strategic development partners to help us with the final design modifications, tooling, and start of the manufacturing process.

The staggered development and more specifically, the supply chain management and logistics for the first prototypes have been advancing slower than we expected. We are hoping to make up for the down time after the prototyping phase is over.  Up to now, many decisions we have taken were based on being cost-sensitive in exchange for slightly slower processes.  However, we are not expecting any additional delays from this milestone out, should the schedule be impacted we will advise all of you in follow on updates.

Have a nice week!
Kristof

LOL how they talk about supply chain management and still working on prototypes and materials in the same update  :palm:
No data or test results provided of course, because, well, that would be embarrassing.

"Relocating to Vienna..."
In other words, it's time to... TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN!!!    >:D
 

Offline WattSekunde

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #108 on: November 07, 2016, 03:51:26 AM »
There are some working "fontus - the self filling water bottles" out there... in some way  ::)

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Shanghai-manufacturer-fontus-the-self-filling_60495056195.html
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 06:59:18 AM by WattSekunde »
 

Offline Geonerd

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2017, 10:13:45 AM »
The latest (end of December) weasel statement by Fontus:

Quote
Dear supporters!

The end of this controversial year is approaching and looking back, we realize how much has changed in such a short time. We went from a beautiful vision and an innovative product concept to explore the technical depths of what it means to extract water from the air.

Our first approaches taught us that our expectations and design goals were definitely too high. Nevertheless, our high expectations drove us to challenge the seemingly impossible and reach areas never explored before. Thanks to this fact and your support, we are now investing in the research and development of technologies that will someday also help the millions of people around the world suffering of ground water scarcity. Even though we will not reach certain design goals of our project, we are developing highly efficient systems that bring us one big step nearer to creating the first self-filling water bottle in history.

Our new engineering team has been working tirelessly and making good progress. Nevertheless, we will not be able to recover lost time for reasons already explained in our last update and will consequently have a considerable delay.

We put together a short Christmas clip for you about our work in these first two months in our new home in Vienna.

We wish you all a peaceful and inspiring Christmas and a powerful start into the New Year!

Your Fontus Team

 :wtf:
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2017, 12:27:08 PM »
The latest (end of December) weasel statement by Fontus:

 :-DD
Captured image for the record.
Ignoring the weasel words they have now admitted that that their product didn't actually work, and they will not be delivering. Game over.
But they are still having a fun time doing research with the backers money.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #112 on: March 05, 2017, 09:15:42 PM »
New Thunderf00t video:

 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #113 on: March 05, 2017, 09:32:23 PM »
I wonder how much it would cost them to actually make the bottle in their demo? Of course it wouldn't perform well at condensing water, but at least it would look cool and give the people the product they envisaged!

They obviously have the CAD drawings, so why not just send it to fabs in China?

« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 09:55:23 PM by TheAmmoniacal »
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Online madires

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #114 on: March 06, 2017, 11:02:41 PM »
So they've started with a vision of a product, some nice pictures and videos, and without any idea to achieve the promised specs while ignoring thermodynamics. They get prizes and subsidies. They deconstruct and analyze dehumidifiers to learn about the technology. This is a very good example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. And a very sad example of other people ignoring science and believing any marketing nonesense. Were they asleep in physics when they went to school? There's a nice euphemism for this: post-factual.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #115 on: March 07, 2017, 07:43:25 PM »
So they've started with a vision of a product, some nice pictures and videos, and without any idea to achieve the promised specs while ignoring thermodynamics.

They actually had early prototypes and actually got water out of them in steamed up bathroom IIRC and they got all excited. And yep, in all the excitement they forgot to do any basic thermodynamics  :palm:

Quote
They get prizes and subsidies. They deconstruct and analyze dehumidifiers to learn about the technology. This is a very good example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. And a very sad example of other people ignoring science and believing any marketing nonesense. Were they asleep in physics when they went to school? There's a nice euphemism for this: post-factual.

It's sadly all too common these days. Kids are now taught to have these ideas, develop a startup, get funding no matter what, and don't let anyone or anything say it can't be done, because "those people" don't drive innovation like they do ::)
They are also taught never to admit something was never possible, but instead when they failed as the laws of physics and engineering predict had a valuable "learning experience" and contributed greatly to society by their efforts. And you you can see they are taking this vision to the grave.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 07:46:24 PM by EEVblog »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #116 on: March 07, 2017, 07:59:35 PM »
 

Offline Money4Nothing

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #117 on: March 09, 2017, 04:08:38 AM »
Hey Fontus might not be physically impossible, but it's engineeringly impractical.

One day we might invent nano-tech heat exchangers and super carbon nano-tube bucky-ball solar panels that would make something like Fontus actually work.
But that day ain't today, and it won't be done by some industrial artist on indegogo.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #118 on: March 09, 2017, 12:55:37 PM »
One day we might invent nano-tech heat exchangers and super carbon nano-tube bucky-ball solar panels that would make something like Fontus actually work.

Even that won't make it work.

There are greater practicalities involved that lie outside the realm of any engineering - like the availability of water vapour and the laws of thermodynamics.

You could have 100% efficiency in every component and still not have a useful product.
 
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Offline DBecker

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #119 on: March 14, 2017, 04:17:39 AM »
This is why you guys aren't going to rich in the modern Kickstarter/Indigogo world.

You have technical knowledge and ethics.

I think that is a result of a poor career choice.  Most careers you can do things completely wrong, and things aren't obviously broken.  Collect your pay, rinse, repeat. Marketing for instance.  Or teaching.  I've met adults in those fields that couldn't tell you what temperature ice formed at, or the boiling point of water.  Closer to their own work, they can do something completely wrong and never get the feedback of a circuit not working, a resistor turning to smoke or a program that immediately crashes.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 09:51:43 AM by DBecker »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #120 on: March 14, 2017, 11:40:43 AM »
Yes.  We tend to want to add value in what we do - not suck out the value added by others.
 

Offline tchandler

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #121 on: April 15, 2017, 07:07:29 AM »
MIT, Device pulls water from dry air, powered only by the sun

Uh oh, next on the chopping block?  http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/04/13/device-pulls-water-from-dry-air-powered-only-by-the-sun/

Claims new material (a metal-organic framework) makes it possible, I don't have access to the journal Science to read the report.   :-//
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #122 on: April 15, 2017, 06:16:23 PM »
MIT, Device pulls water from dry air, powered only by the sun

Uh oh, next on the chopping block?  http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/04/13/device-pulls-water-from-dry-air-powered-only-by-the-sun/

Claims new material (a metal-organic framework) makes it possible, I don't have access to the journal Science to read the report.   :-//

Why the hate? There IS water in the air.

Berkeley aren't claiming to be using a Peltier cooler powered by a tiny solar panel. Their method is (a) completely different, and (b) not electronic so nothing to do with EEVBLOG.

 

Offline Hensingler

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #123 on: April 15, 2017, 08:53:33 PM »
MIT, Device pulls water from dry air, powered only by the sun

Uh oh, next on the chopping block?  http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/04/13/device-pulls-water-from-dry-air-powered-only-by-the-sun/

Claims new material (a metal-organic framework) makes it possible, I don't have access to the journal Science to read the report.   :-//

Why the hate? There IS water in the air.

Not in the dry air they are claiming to extract water from, by definition. You would think a university wouldn't be so sloppy with what they publish.
 

Offline tchandler

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Re: EEVblog #881 - Fontus Self Filling Water Bottle BUSTED!
« Reply #124 on: April 15, 2017, 11:56:05 PM »
MIT, Device pulls water from dry air, powered only by the sun

Uh oh, next on the chopping block?  http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/04/13/device-pulls-water-from-dry-air-powered-only-by-the-sun/

Claims new material (a metal-organic framework) makes it possible, I don't have access to the journal Science to read the report.   :-//

Why the hate? There IS water in the air.

Berkeley aren't claiming to be using a Peltier cooler powered by a tiny solar panel. Their method is (a) completely different, and (b) not electronic so nothing to do with EEVBLOG.

No hate, Just something to keep an eye on. The journal Science is reputable and MIT may be on to something. I just don't know
I thought this was thread related since a lot of the discussion is thermodynamic limitations not just electronics. Also I see some sizable wire going to that condenser with a giant heat sink. Clearly they are condensing using Peltier.

The claims are almost 3 liters a day per Kg of MOF, all powered by the sun, but no one mentions how much power from the sun. It seems a little hyped but I could be wrong.

 


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