Author Topic: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown  (Read 25415 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27199
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« on: March 01, 2017, 07:09:41 pm »
Teardown of the new Keysight InfiniiVision 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope leased TODAY!

 
The following users thanked this post: saturation

Offline brutester

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 16
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 07:38:50 pm »
Dave, I think that they have developed a separate compute board, because:
 1. it seems to be 6 layers (main board is 4 layers I think).
 2. it may save cost if they decide to reuse this module in other product (or in other versions of 1000X)
 3. They may manufacture the compute board in their own facility and outsource the assembly to another factory
 4. As you have pointed out - it is easier to test when they are in separate boards.
 
The following users thanked this post: r3bers, RobertWilliam

Online daqq

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1348
  • Country: sk
    • My site
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 07:51:39 pm »
Thanks for the teardown.

My guess as to the separation would be that for the digital board you would use more layers, finer geometry and other things that make it a costlier material per dm^2 . Then they can get away with a simpler technology (also as far as assembly is concerned) for the giant analog board.

Integrating them into one would force the use of the same technology on the whole large board.

I've seen this done for those reasons before.
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
+++Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot +++
 

Offline MrBungle

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 07:52:40 pm »
Ofcourse there's rust, that's why they were in the dumpster ;)
 
The following users thanked this post: daqq, kalleboo

Offline sorenkir

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 87
  • Country: fr
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 07:57:33 pm »
For sure, separate processor board will allow design upgrade because these Spear600 processors are quite old ("NRND"):
http://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers/spear600.html
Michel.
 

Offline AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3265
  • Country: gb
  • Will design for cookies
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 07:58:20 pm »
Integrating them into one would force the use of the same technology on the whole large board.

I've seen this done for those reasons before.

I've done exactly the same thing for the same reasons. Escaping big BGAs, and correctly routing DDR memory, takes a lot of layers. The main PCB is probably only 4 or 6 layers, but I'd be surprised if that logic board has fewer than 10.
 

Offline Avacee

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 09:18:14 pm »
Excellent teardown as usual - learn a lot every time  :-+

Around the 24:01 mark and the LMH6552 1.5Ghz Differential Amp U39. Is it just the camera angle or are pins 1,4,5,8 using a bees dick width of solder and look like they'd snap if the unit was jostled sharply?
 

Offline quarros

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • Country: hu
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 09:36:54 pm »
Another possibility for the separate board is to make unlocking hacking features harder and make it easier/cheaper to provide different feature sets?
(Since one board don't have to contain all the features)


Edit: Hmm... I might be totally off mark.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 09:50:44 pm by quarros »
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27199
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 10:02:01 pm »
For sure, separate processor board will allow design upgrade because these Spear600 processors are quite old ("NRND"):
http://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers/spear600.html
Michel.

Interesting.
Still selling them though, and there would be the good'ol "last buy" when the time comes.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27199
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 10:04:50 pm »
Dave, I think that they have developed a separate compute board, because:
 1. it seems to be 6 layers (main board is 4 layers I think).
 2. it may save cost if they decide to reuse this module in other product (or in other versions of 1000X)
 3. They may manufacture the compute board in their own facility and outsource the assembly to another factory
 4. As you have pointed out - it is easier to test when they are in separate boards.

Could certainly save some assembly cost by having a higher spec assembly house for the CPU board, and an old lower end assembly house do the main board.
Actual bare board price saving will come down to panel pricing for a given manufacturing process. Could be very significant.
 

Online capt bullshot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1248
  • Country: de
    • Mostly useless stuff, but nice to have: wunderkis.de
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017, 12:44:37 am »
I believe Agisight has enough volume to keep ST producing the spear. Anyone else should watch out, if Keylent stops buying this chip, ST might stop producing it, causing the usual last time buy notice.
Safety devices hinder evolution
 

Offline AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3265
  • Country: gb
  • Will design for cookies
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 01:14:25 am »
NRND doesn't necessarily mean they're going to stop making it any time soon; often suppliers will continue to support existing customers for a long time.

IIRC the SPEAR range is quite an unusual CPU which can be customised for individual applications with additional hard-coded logic on the die. It may be that this customisation is a service that ST don't want to offer any longer, but if the NRE has been done already, then the particular version of the CPU used in the DSOX family will be produced for as long as there's demand.
 

Offline bji900

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 27
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2017, 01:30:50 am »
Nice Video Dave! Sorry about changing Febuary to 28 days ;) Looking forward to the review. I find it slightly confusing that the have the two different high end ones listed almost identically on their website but the price is $150 different. You need to open it to learn that the difference is the waveform generator output.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8771
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2017, 03:14:58 am »
What's the CR2032 for? Does it know the time?

 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15432
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2017, 04:09:14 am »
What's the CR2032 for? Does it know the time?
Ofcourse! That is a standard feature on DSOs for over 20 years so they can include time & date on a screen dump.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3879
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2017, 04:57:12 am »
NRND doesn't necessarily mean they're going to stop making it any time soon; often suppliers will continue to support existing customers for a long time.
Policies vary between vendors, but NRND typically means "we have something newer, that's better value for money". If they are giving up on a product type they might declare a device NRND, without having a newer option. You always need to look carefully.
 

Offline marshallh

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1458
  • Country: us
    • retroactive
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2017, 05:44:30 am »
Looking at the pcb design on both boards, the layout is very much like boards you see coming out of Chinese design houses. The boards were very obviously done in Altium, and the silk rectangles around resistors and ovals around the caps is a trademark giveaway. I'd suspect they contracted out the layout though they may have done the schematics themselves.

On the logic board, lack of traces on both top and bottom points to at least 6 layers and more probably 8 layers.
Verilog tips
BGA soldering intro

11:37 <@ktemkin> c4757p: marshall has transcended communications media
11:37 <@ktemkin> He speaks protocols directly.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11607
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2017, 06:36:40 am »
What's the CR2032 for? Does it know the time?
Ofcourse! That is a standard feature on DSOs for over 20 years so they can include time & date on a screen dump.
Also for saving state - scopes have a lot of settings and people  expect them to power up in the same state as when they were powered down, ( and power down without notice) and EEProm/Flash has issues with write time and endurance.   
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline alter Ratz

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: at
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2017, 06:40:07 am »
Coated spark gaps? Does this make sense?
Anybody has some Information about this?

Best Regards,
Bernhard
 

Offline VasinD

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 6
  • Country: ru
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2017, 06:41:11 am »
Thank you for the teardown, Dave.
But wait a minute... NRND old processor, low end old Spartan-3 FPGA, chinese capacitors on power supply... Is this is a top quality HP NEW scope or I miss something??? Come on, HP... Looks like the mountain gave birth to mouse.
The DS1054Z looks like quality/price beast comparing to this suck.
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15432
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2017, 07:18:19 am »
Thank you for the teardown, Dave.
But wait a minute... NRND old processor, low end old Spartan-3 FPGA, chinese capacitors on power supply... Is this is a top quality HP NEW scope or I miss
It had to compete with Tektronix' TBS1000 series so it had to be a rehash using obsolete technology  >:D
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline brutester

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 16
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2017, 07:21:04 am »
+1 I tought the same.. I think that they should not be coated.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11607
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2017, 07:37:11 am »
Spark gaps work by ionising air. Coating = no air.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Online Agent24

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 101
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2017, 07:56:04 am »
Given that the PSU is also coated with a sprawl of budget capacitors, I don't think quality was at the forefront of the design there.
 

Offline IvoS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2017, 08:06:17 am »
What a nice scope for cheap money I thought I will definitely buy one but after seeing those "lovely" electrolytic caps I lost my appetite.  :(
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf