Author Topic: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran  (Read 3256 times)

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Offline @rt

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EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« on: September 17, 2018, 10:07:25 pm »
I don’t think so:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5dKpW7Mh5jGNYBb17

I never advertised it ever. 17xx subs at the moment, so not the same scale, but it’s always a possibility it becomes a factor after some qualification such as sub count.

If nobody else hosts that graph, it will be canned by Google and noone will know what the hell the thread is.
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2018, 01:29:03 am »
I just watched Fran's WTF video linked below and out of the 40 videos shown in the right suggestions column 28 were Fran's, the rest were a mix from EEVblog, Mr Carlson's Lab, Tom Campbell, Jim Browning, Wired and some other space junk thing.

Fran's channel got 28 out of the 40 suggestions so perhaps somebody at YouTube has already taken notice. I clear history frequently and never sign in to watch videos even for subscribed channels so don't know how they chose the 40 they did.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 02:23:08 am by Muttley Snickers »
 

Online wilfred

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2018, 01:43:21 am »
I did the same and got a similar result. Then I did this one. (see picture)
The video description mentions Fran by name. After that it fizzled out
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 01:50:28 am »
After another viewing of the Youtube page above I now see 34 out of the 40 suggested videos which are Fran's videos, other people will probably receive a completely different suggestions list based on their viewing history.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 02:06:10 am »
I saw suggested Fran's  videos all the time, before or after April.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 07:35:11 am »
It's not just Fran, since YouTube recommendations went to crap, I no longer see any of Dave's EEVBlog videos come up in the recommendations anymore.  Maybe 1 every few days.

I've complained about it here: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/youtubes-recomended-recomendations-now-suck/

I think whatever is happening, it is just hitting different content providers and different users at different times.  Fran just somehow ended up with a really-really bad case, regardless of the viewers.  Either that, or, the rest of us just haven't noticed...

YouTube will soon start to be exclusively recommend the major paid network interests.  It's getting suckier, even though the content is still being made, this wont last.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 07:45:35 am by BrianHG »
__________
BrianHG.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2018, 10:19:36 am »
My channel is not monetized.  Looks like noise to me.   Maybe it's too small to tell. 
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Online wilfred

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2018, 11:15:39 am »
Fran just somehow ended up with a really-really bad case, regardless of the viewers.  Either that, or, the rest of us just haven't noticed...

YouTube will soon start to be exclusively recommend the major paid network interests.  It's getting suckier, even though the content is still being made, this wont last.

I never noticed the lack of recommendations of Fran. Perhaps that is because I am a subscriber and I see a new video in the list. I have noticed I get some apparently out-of-left-field  recommendations but I often of late seem to have to go looking for videos from channels I don't subscribe to. eg, Techmoan, BigClive, The SignalPath, The 8-bit Guy to name a few. I have maintained subscriptions of mostly the smaller channels that post less frequently.

I have maintained Fran in my subscibed list because I look forward to her videos more than most.

I do think YT is using very sophisticated methods to compose recommendations in order to maximise Ad revenues. I don't object to that even if I have to work harder to get free content. I also think they will be deaf to complaints that attempt to divert them from that course.
 
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2018, 01:07:29 pm »
I would like to see Youtube adopt a hybrid P2P network model in order to reduce their bandwidth costs. Ideally with an official way to make an energy efficient "cache node" using a Raspberry Pi and external HDD. Maybe then give the operators of those cache nodes points for supplying bandwidth, which can then be donated to creators in order to benefit them somehow - either by paying out money or by acting as "votes" for good content. (The latter would likely be more workable since then the "points" don't need to have a monetary value.)
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Offline Bud

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2018, 01:16:05 pm »
The problem IMO with people like Fran is they tell you how much they love to make videos and that is why they are on youtube. And right after they start bitching about monetary incentives and promotions of their videos and subs and stuff. Heck, if you love so much making videos make your videos , nobody prevents you from doing it so stop complaining.
 

Online wilfred

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2018, 01:45:54 pm »
The problem IMO with people like Fran is they tell you how much they love to make videos and that is why they are on youtube. And right after they start bitching about monetary incentives and promotions of their videos and subs and stuff. Heck, if you love so much making videos make your videos , nobody prevents you from doing it so stop complaining.

Just to clarify. This is Fran Blanche you're talking about? Because if it is Fran you're saying is bitching then I'm not having it.
 
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Offline @rt

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2018, 11:00:55 pm »
Too right. If it’s bitching she’s doing, it’s at least internally consistent.

She starts off with her motivation for making videos being the idea that a large project can be condensed into a small video, and shared with others.
Of course part & parcel of that is having them viewed, and growing the viewership. It certainly isn’t about money after all that time.

 

Offline SparkyFX

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2018, 11:53:00 pm »
Interestingly, Fran Blanches video actually was suggested to me through Youtube yesterday, the first in a long time, i skipped watching a few in the past. I think it was before the EEVBlog2 reaction video came online, both of which i am/was not a subscriber of.

I actually do (think, i) understand what Youtube is doing there. You can upload videos, and serve a whole community, but factors that decide over growth by suggestions and start page are reserved for creators that do partner commercially with Youtube in so far that they are creating an income for the platform. Everyone wants to have their videos viewed, but to have the platform reserve more or the same resources (attention span, screen area) than for creators with commercial content would be a conflict of interest for Youtube. As much as i can upload photos to flickr, but can not demand that my photos make it to the start page of everyone else. I can link them from whereever i want, though.

Not sure if this is actually discrimination and i don´t get how that leads to being blocked in certain countries like in the blender case, that migh mean it is a strange topic for open source projects.

I would like to see Youtube adopt a hybrid P2P network model in order to reduce their bandwidth costs. Ideally with an official way to make an energy efficient "cache node" using a Raspberry Pi and external HDD. Maybe then give the operators of those cache nodes points for supplying bandwidth, which can then be donated to creators in order to benefit them somehow - either by paying out money or by acting as "votes" for good content. (The latter would likely be more workable since then the "points" don't need to have a monetary value.)
Besides technical issues, like
- the need to transmit the first few parts of a video always first,
- no fast forwarding in the video without changing the upload scheduling of several p2p clients, therefore wasting their cached content,
- the need for much more redundancy in an less reliable net (wasting bandwith by doubling transmissions) and
- residential upload speeds being a lot slower than data center uplinks (network uplink is the bottleneck for overall speed), ....

it would become a question of net neutrality and for that youtube is better off hosting it´s own network than being a lot more dependent on ISP traffic shaping. It gives them a certain amount of bargain power when it comes to negotiations.

I doubt youtube could have gotten that big with a client-side p2p backend (if i understand you correct), the experience would not be the same. Technically, downloading and watching videos this way would obviously work and it would have saved them plenty of bandwith, but it could not have run just in the browser as it does now and that would have driven people off.

 

Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2018, 04:51:07 am »
I would accept the fact that "monetization" should really be called "monetize and promote", and enable it. Even if only to see the result over a few weeks or months.
Of course it would be nice if youtube openly admitted this, but there are many things they keep secret.
 

Offline W2NAP

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2018, 07:32:02 am »
I would accept the fact that "monetization" should really be called "monetize and promote", and enable it. Even if only to see the result over a few weeks or months.
Of course it would be nice if youtube openly admitted this, but there are many things they keep secret.

and if it is the case that for a vid to be promoted it has to have ads, then YT fails right then and there. cause it don't promote quality it tends to promote junk. like I said in another thread about all i see in recomends is garbage music you couldn't pay me to listen to and MSM news hacks and late night tv hacks that you couldn't pay me to watch. No fran, no eevblog, no mikesradiorepair, no radio shop no rossmann nothing I actually want to watch or care about it just pushes garbage i don't give two sh*ts about.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2018, 01:20:07 pm »
I would like to see Youtube adopt a hybrid P2P network model in order to reduce their bandwidth costs. Ideally with an official way to make an energy efficient "cache node" using a Raspberry Pi and external HDD. Maybe then give the operators of those cache nodes points for supplying bandwidth, which can then be donated to creators in order to benefit them somehow - either by paying out money or by acting as "votes" for good content. (The latter would likely be more workable since then the "points" don't need to have a monetary value.)
Besides technical issues, like
- the need to transmit the first few parts of a video always first,
- no fast forwarding in the video without changing the upload scheduling of several p2p clients, therefore wasting their cached content,
- the need for much more redundancy in an less reliable net (wasting bandwith by doubling transmissions) and
- residential upload speeds being a lot slower than data center uplinks (network uplink is the bottleneck for overall speed), ....

it would become a question of net neutrality and for that youtube is better off hosting it´s own network than being a lot more dependent on ISP traffic shaping. It gives them a certain amount of bargain power when it comes to negotiations.

I doubt youtube could have gotten that big with a client-side p2p backend (if i understand you correct), the experience would not be the same. Technically, downloading and watching videos this way would obviously work and it would have saved them plenty of bandwith, but it could not have run just in the browser as it does now and that would have driven people off.
Hence the idea of it being hybrid P2P, so that the P2P part is merely an augment to the existing servers and not a replacement. One way the cache nodes can really reduce peak bandwidth usage is by downloading content off peak - e.g. when the peak is due to most viewers waking up or getting home. And because sending content to the cache nodes is not very timing critical, multicasting can work very well for that.
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Offline KL27x

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2018, 03:17:30 pm »
Holy cow, I have no patience. Watched half of that video and have no idea what she was talking about. When she brought up those graphs, my eyes just glazed over.
I have seen a Fran video once or twice, before, so I think she has popped up on my "feed," before. Actually, I think I only found her when I searched for ways to weld plastic.

My worst autosuggestion is Wranglerstar. I watched 4 or 5 of his videos. And now he refuses to die.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 03:19:24 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2018, 07:47:59 pm »
If Alphabet / Google / Youtube is trying to make money from advertisers, I wonder if maybe two things may be happening. (Word of warning, I don't actually know much about how Youtube work, so take the following with the proverbial piece of salt.)

1 There being an ever changing method by Alphabet/Google in how all the youtube videos & demography & who-knows-what-else, are sorted by as "categories of interest", for having creative ways to diversify potential income categories off vs advertisers, as if suddenly starting to sell a product that nobody wanted in the first place, an air-in-a-bottle, and then air-in-a-bottle-with-hint-of-citrus, and then organic-air-in-a-bottle, and then something else again, only to keep making things more expensive, and maintaining a dynamic in creating new ad products.

2 Managing the youtube demography (the people providing Youtube with free video content), as a cultivated eco system, by providing a product that nobody wanted in the first place, specifically ways for serving youtube content to viewers, which would be automated in creative ways, or rather, mandated by Alphabet/Goole in dynamic ways for creating new ad products. See pt. 1.

I got this far using my imagination alone, perhaps I am not too far off?
 

Online NivagSwerdna

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2018, 07:56:26 pm »
IMHO some of the assumptions here are not correct... Fran's channel has changed a lot... many recent videos are CNC centric not electronic centric and although I like the channel I have actually unsubscribed because otherwise I get too much noise on my YT subscription feed.
As time goes on there are more and more channels and the niche audience that is electronics nerds have more and more pressure to decide which of the many channels they spend their time on.
From YTs point of view it makes sense to support the more major channels (and especially the monetised ones) and let the small channels swim with the sharks.  The number of suggestions you see in your feed is finite so there will be some channels that are ranked low enough to not appear.
Maybe in future it will be harder to make a living on YT unless you are a major player; but it remains a free platform to share community generated content.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 07:58:15 pm by NivagSwerdna »
 

Online wilfred

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2018, 08:10:14 pm »
@NivagSwerdna. I was thinking along the same lines. Fran has diverse content and may not yet attract enough similar interest viewers for the algorithm to know how to include her channel effectively.

One way to test the monetisation theory is to just try it and see what happens.
 

Offline SparkyFX

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2018, 01:36:20 am »
Hence the idea of it being hybrid P2P, so that the P2P part is merely an augment to the existing servers and not a replacement. One way the cache nodes can really reduce peak bandwidth usage is by downloading content off peak - e.g. when the peak is due to most viewers waking up or getting home. And because sending content to the cache nodes is not very timing critical, multicasting can work very well for that.
They already run data centers all over the world that must do some form of internal replication over their very high bandwidth connection.
I reckon it doesn´t make much sense to host e.g. videos in a local language or context worldwide (but still could stream it at the cost of higher latency), nor does it make sense to go backward with functionality. But other than that they could probably congest the net twice with content. It is a very interesting subject nevertheless.

1 There being an ever changing method by Alphabet/Google in how all the youtube videos & demography & who-knows-what-else, are sorted by as "categories of interest", for having creative ways to diversify potential income categories off vs advertisers, as if suddenly starting to sell a product that nobody wanted in the first place, an air-in-a-bottle, and then air-in-a-bottle-with-hint-of-citrus, and then organic-air-in-a-bottle, and then something else again, only to keep making things more expensive, and maintaining a dynamic in creating new ad products.
I think they have an auction process for keywords (that are associative with videos of that content) instead, or their clients just buy stream time or views, which would explain why some ads with no connection to the video are shown. If air-in-a-bottle-with-hint-of-citrus becomes a thing, then everyone can bid on keywords related to it and get their ads placed near content from categories like "air in bottles" or "new trends in scents" or whatever it is, which means they are of higher value than anywhere else because it is more likely to trigger a sales decision there. So the market automatically adjusts prices for the space associated with trending keywords.

The added value for these locations comes from sorting and automatically categorizing the context and content (including subtitles) of a video instead of relying solely on the data entered by the content creators, which is still very important if the channel wants to be found. There is hardly another way of handling the vast amount of data uploaded every minute, but the nice thing in this is, that the success of the content creator and the economic success of the platform are pointing in the same direction. As long as both have the same definition of success, that is.

Quote
2 Managing the youtube demography (the people providing Youtube with free video content), as a cultivated eco system, by providing a product that nobody wanted in the first place, specifically ways for serving youtube content to viewers, which would be automated in creative ways, or rather, mandated by Alphabet/Goole in dynamic ways for creating new ad products. See pt. 1.
The sad part is, that there will never be a start page layout or an algorithm that really satisfies either the viewers or the content creator´s needs regarding Youtube´s recommendations and Youtube never promised to do that, it just happened to match/shape many viewers behavior and the whole "youtube subscribers as a community on its own" is a byproduct of collaborative platforms being dismissive of pure self representation by individual users.

Actually it would be a lot better or at least more independent if the recommendation context would be outside Youtube and in itself context based - like answering questions in this forum by posting a link to a video that contains the exact answer.
To make a long story short... the content creator is actually in a better situation when viewers find the channel through diverse ways.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 04:18:17 am by SparkyFX »
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2018, 02:37:41 am »
Just an idea to all Youtubers. Isn't it an idea to manually recommend videos?
Randomly link to related channels.

I have actually seen other (non electronics) channels having the same issues.
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Online LapTop006

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2018, 12:27:47 pm »
I would like to see Youtube adopt a hybrid P2P network model in order to reduce their bandwidth costs. Ideally with an official way to make an energy efficient "cache node" using a Raspberry Pi and external HDD. Maybe then give the operators of those cache nodes points for supplying bandwidth, which can then be donated to creators in order to benefit them somehow - either by paying out money or by acting as "votes" for good content. (The latter would likely be more workable since then the "points" don't need to have a monetary value.)

YouTube already runs caches inside ISPs, as for deeper options, they've certainly been looked at, but I'm not sure any reached the point of being worthwhile for mass deployment.
 

Offline darik

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Re: EEVBlog2 Re: Fran
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2018, 01:51:44 am »
Starting a few days after all this I started seeing her videos again in my suggestions. Just like I used to a few months ago before they disappeared. So YouTube seems to have responded or something.
 


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