Author Topic: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit  (Read 14543 times)

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2017, 01:34:37 am »
Most of us, myself included, live in places where the habitat isn't actively trying to kill us (Australia for instance, killer spiders that hide in toilets, and cute bloody wombats that kill dogs, WTF is that all about?) so it's not something we think about, the only reason I thought of it is a friend who's involved with mountain rescue is always moaning about people on the moors with smartphones for GPS.

The thing about Britain is that everybody thinks it's all harmless - a temperate oceanic climate, the most remote place is only 7 miles (as the crow flies) from a metalled road etc. etc. Get a mere 1000 feet above sea level in the West Highlands or Snowdonia and you can enjoy every climatic condition that Britain can throw at you, all in the space of four hours.

I remember one day in early September starting to walk from Kinlochmore/Kinlochleven (elevation around 10m) up around the edge of the Mamores towards Fort William. When we started out it was warm and sunny and a t-shirt and shorts was all you wanted to wear. By the time we had walked around two miles along and 300 metres up the weather had changed to freezing cold torrential rain with the occasional hail and the cloud was dropping to become fog. The weather was bad enough that, on safety grounds, we turned around and walked back down off the hills (we had planned a wild camp that night). When I finally got to take it off, I discovered that the two outside pockets on my waterproof had about three inches of rainwater in them.

Turns out the puppy was found safe and well, the wombat didn't kill it, it just ran away because the wombat scared it and the puppy's mother is recovering nicely from the snakebite but still, toilet spiders...

Toilet spiders? Ha! It's the dropbears you have to look out for!
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Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2017, 02:01:58 am »
The thing about Britain is that everybody thinks it's all harmless - a temperate oceanic climate, the most remote place is only 7 miles (as the crow flies) from a metalled road etc. etc. Get a mere 1000 feet above sea level in the West Highlands or Snowdonia and you can enjoy every climatic condition that Britain can throw at you, all in the space of four hours.


Oh it's definitely not harmless, but most of us Brits live in urban areas where the most dangerous thing we encounter is a dodgy kebab.
Even the ones of us who do live outside those bits are unlikely to live in bits where there are venomous snakes (which typo'd as snaks but, contrary to popular belief, even a Pot Noodle isn't actually venomous), crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I remember one day in early September starting to walk from Kinlochmore/Kinlochleven (elevation around 10m) up around the edge of the Mamores towards Fort William. When we started out it was warm and sunny and a t-shirt and shorts was all you wanted to wear. By the time we had walked around two miles along and 300 metres up the weather had changed to freezing cold torrential rain with the occasional hail and the cloud was dropping to become fog. The weather was bad enough that, on safety grounds, we turned around and walked back down off the hills (we had planned a wild camp that night). When I finally got to take it off, I discovered that the two outside pockets on my waterproof had about three inches of rainwater in them.
Yup, I've done lots of 'wild' bits which could have been pretty unpleasant if the weather and poor preparation came into play.

Turns out the puppy was found safe and well, the wombat didn't kill it, it just ran away because the wombat scared it and the puppy's mother is recovering nicely from the snakebite but still, toilet spiders...

Toilet spiders? Ha! It's the dropbears you have to look out for!
[/quote]

Dropbears?

Pfft, I give you Stoffel, escapologist honey badger!:

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2017, 02:41:37 am »
Dropbears?

Ask any Australian, they'll tell you all about them. Just as, if asked by an Aussie, you or I would explain the rules of the game 'Mornington Crescent' to them.
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Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2017, 02:52:57 am »
Dropbears?

Ask any Australian, they'll tell you all about them. Just as, if asked by an Aussie, you or I would explain the rules of the game 'Mornington Crescent' to them.

Well that's a whole different kettle of fish, hardly comparable to fictional nonsense like dropbears, while they may be able to grasp the basic rules the subtleties of the game, such as the Kensal Green gambit or when to play (or even not) any of the Bakerloo strategies can take decades to master.

To be really successful any faster they'd need intensive coaching from someone like Mrs Edna Trellis but she so rarely sends letters of invitation these days.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2017, 05:37:19 am »
Dropbears?

Ask any Australian, they'll tell you all about them. Just as, if asked by an Aussie, you or I would explain the rules of the game 'Mornington Crescent' to them.

Well that's a whole different kettle of fish, hardly comparable to fictional nonsense like dropbears, while they may be able to grasp the basic rules the subtleties of the game, such as the Kensal Green gambit or when to play (or even not) any of the Bakerloo strategies can take decades to master.

To be really successful any faster they'd need intensive coaching from someone like Mrs Edna Trellis but she so rarely sends letters of invitation these days.

I see we are in complete agreement. Except possibly about the Durham rules, nobody ever agrees with me about them.

Don't underestimate the Aussies though, it's quite possible that they may have caught John Arlott's masterclass that was transmitted while rain stopped play, and between cake tastings, during the Test against Australia in, I think, 1977.
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Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2017, 06:24:44 am »
I see we are in complete agreement. Except possibly about the Durham rules, nobody ever agrees with me about them.

Well of course not, they were deprecated in league matches after the "regrettable" incident which lead to the revocation of the Hippodrome's MC licence in 1983.

I understand that there is a grass roots movement to have them reinstated and feelings run high whenever they're discussed, but I hope we can be civilised here and at least attempt to be gentlemanly about this, if you agree not to invoke the Turnham Green subterfuge then I won't mention Russell Square and we could indulge in a friendly game, for recreational purposes of course.

Don't underestimate the Aussies though, it's quite possible that they may have caught John Arlott's masterclass that was transmitted while rain stopped play, and between cake tastings, during the Test against Australia in, I think, 1977.

Well, now that's a blast from the past and well remembered, I think I have those three days of masterclass archived somewhere, of coure they're rather dated now and obviously make no mention of the more modern rules such as DLR (which I know is contentious) but for nostalgia purposes and as a basic introduction it'd be great.

Finsbury Park.
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Offline edy

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2017, 06:52:42 am »
Drop bears.... ha ha!  :-DD

Reminds me of this....

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Offline Fungus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2017, 07:33:41 am »
Don't underestimate the Aussies though, it's quite possible that they may have caught John Arlott's masterclass that was transmitted while rain stopped play, and between cake tastings, during the Test against Australia in, I think, 1977.

Well, now that's a blast from the past and well remembered

I wasn't aware of those, thanks for the heads-up.



(...also enjoyed a few games of Mornington Crescent in my time)
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2017, 12:07:41 pm »
... and we could indulge in a friendly game, for recreational purposes of course.

I think we've wandered off topic far enough and long enough. Considering that a full game, with all the diversions on rules etcetera, could rival the Batteriser thread in length perhaps we'd better not. Also bare in mind that everybody apart from the Brits, probably the Kiwis and possibly the Aussies are scratching their heads wondering what the heck we're talking about. It's been fun though...
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 12:10:18 pm by Cerebus »
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Offline Brumby

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2017, 12:22:04 pm »
Here's one Aussie who's not scratching their head.

I've sat in on 3 or 4 games - but haven't participated as yet.  The rules do have an anguished elegance about them.

It doesn't translocate to the Antipodes particularly well and one attempt at a local adaptation just didn't have the same feel.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 12:24:35 pm by Brumby »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2017, 02:50:36 pm »
I've heard that if you get four Yorkshiremen playing a game, it can be enthralling and unforgettable.  Never had the opportunity myself - has anyone else?
 

Offline SpaceCow

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2017, 06:58:02 am »
I would prefer less of the bullshit-refuting than more. Occasional videos are fine, particularly if the bullshit is interesting, but doing it for the sake of justice or whatever just doesn't ring with me as a fan. I'd rather just get more creative and educational content which allow me to identify bullshit myself rather than you telling me. I really don't think this stuff like the Batterizer deserves so much time and effort. Yes, it was interesting to see how far the bullshit could go, but by now it is just kinda exhausting. We're never going to win the crusade against bullshit in the world, so I'd rather we not spend so much time trying.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2017, 10:16:21 am »
I would prefer less of the bullshit-refuting than more. Occasional videos are fine, particularly if the bullshit is interesting, but doing it for the sake of justice or whatever just doesn't ring with me as a fan. I'd rather just get more creative and educational content which allow me to identify bullshit myself rather than you telling me.

I like to think that every debunking video I do provides the tools to help people detect the BS themselves. Indeed, my original Batteriser video was a tutorial of sorts on how to debunk a product.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2017, 10:31:12 am »

Even the ones of us who do live outside those bits are unlikely to live in bits where there are venomous snakes (which typo'd as snaks but, contrary to popular belief, even a Pot Noodle isn't actually venomous),

I remember having a British Rail pie which came close back in the day----apparently the training course didn't include the fact that you needed to remove the "Gladwrap" before putting the thing in the piewarmer! ;D
Quote

crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I can understand Brits,but Americans also  recoil in horror---this from a country which has land animals which can eat you!

« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 01:57:15 am by vk6zgo »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2017, 02:37:48 am »
I don't know whether "Calling Bullshit in an Age of Big Data" is a serious suggestion for a course at the author's university or just a very well executed spoof. Indeed, I think that's half the point of it. Either way it's worth a look.

Make sure you read the second disclaimer at the bottom of the home page properly, all the the way to the end.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2017, 07:37:21 pm »
Make sure you read the second disclaimer at the bottom of the home page properly, all the the way to the end.

I'm guessing it's a bit like the Penn and Teller TV program of the same name.

Penn and Teller have to be very careful not to call anybody a "liar" or a "con artist" or anything else with a legal definition. Calling them "assholes", "cocksuckers", etc.? Perfectly fine.

That's one of the reasons there's so much creative profanity in the show (the other reason is that they enjoy it).

 

Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2017, 09:01:16 pm »
I would prefer less of the bullshit-refuting than more. Occasional videos are fine, particularly if the bullshit is interesting, but doing it for the sake of justice or whatever just doesn't ring with me as a fan. I'd rather just get more creative and educational content which allow me to identify bullshit myself rather than you telling me.

I like to think that every debunking video I do provides the tools to help people detect the BS themselves. Indeed, my original Batteriser video was a tutorial of sorts on how to debunk a product.

I have to agree, give people the tools to refute bullshit and there will be less bullshit to refute, your videos give good technical reasons why these things (solar roadways, batterizer etc.) are at best dubious, at worst scams so that people can develop their own critical thinking skills, keep 'em coming please.
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Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2017, 09:06:42 pm »

crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I can understand Brits,but Americans also  recoil in horror---this from a country which has land animals which can eat you!
[/quote]

Well the 'merkin's problem with Aus is that you guys haven't worked out a way to print warnings on the wildlife yet so they've no idea who to sue, when was the last time you turned over a Taipan and read:

'Caution, bites may cause agonisingly slow death'

or

'Warning, animal may disembowel you'

on a cassowary?
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Offline jonovid

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2017, 09:46:58 pm »
Quote
Quote
crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I can understand Brits,but Americans also  recoil in horror---this from a country which has land animals which can eat you!


Well the 'merkin's problem with Aus is that you guys haven't worked out a way to print warnings on the wildlife yet so they've no idea who to sue, when was the last time you turned over a Taipan and read:

'Caution, bites may cause agonisingly slow death'

or

'Warning, animal may disembowel you'

on a cassowary?

the warning signs are at airport if you try to remove animals from Australia  ::)
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Offline Brumby

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2017, 11:53:24 pm »
Quote
Quote
crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I can understand Brits,but Americans also  recoil in horror---this from a country which has land animals which can eat you!


Well the 'merkin's problem with Aus is that you guys haven't worked out a way to print warnings on the wildlife yet so they've no idea who to sue, when was the last time you turned over a Taipan and read:

'Caution, bites may cause agonisingly slow death'

or

'Warning, animal may disembowel you'

on a cassowary?

the warning signs are at airport if you try to remove animals from Australia  ::)

Yeah .... don't try that.  You'll get a rather bad experience - whether it's border control or ordinary Aussies who catch you.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2017, 10:56:27 am »
Make sure you read the second disclaimer at the bottom of the home page properly, all the the way to the end.

I'm guessing it's a bit like the Penn and Teller TV program of the same name.

Penn and Teller have to be very careful not to call anybody a "liar" or a "con artist" or anything else with a legal definition. Calling them "assholes", "cocksuckers", etc.? Perfectly fine.

That's one of the reasons there's so much creative profanity in the show (the other reason is that they enjoy it).

Perhaps you're not old enough to get the Carly Simon reference (a variation on lyrics from "You're so vain") at the end of the disclaimer which makes it clear that the disclaimer is more than a little tongue in cheek. Anybody who listened to the radio in the 70's would know that song.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2017, 11:15:21 am »
Well the 'merkin's problem with Aus is that you guys haven't worked out a way to print warnings on the wildlife yet so they've no idea who to sue, when was the last time you turned over a Taipan and read:

'Caution, bites may cause agonisingly slow death'

or

'Warning, animal may disembowel you'

on a cassowary?

"Fangs may be sharper than they appear."
"Petting may lead to loss of limbs."
"Caution, contents extremely angry."
"Contrary to your grandmother's advice this animal WILL eat things bigger than its head."
"When boxing, this kangaroo has NO idea who the Marquis of Queensbury is, let alone what his rules, or any rules are."
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Offline Assafl

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2017, 07:40:30 pm »
Don't underestimate the Aussies though, it's quite possible that they may have caught John Arlott's masterclass that was transmitted while rain stopped play, and between cake tastings, during the Test against Australia in, I think, 1977.

Well, now that's a blast from the past and well remembered

I wasn't aware of those, thanks for the heads-up.



(...also enjoyed a few games of Mornington Crescent in my time)

Big thank you for posting this!

What an amazing little film. Especially the narration: "What is it about this unobtrusive game? What is its magic? For magic it must surely be that makes men sit and watch and dream of past occasions and of wistful yearnings never quite fulfilled."

Why can't we have a Sir Ralph Richardson successor narrate ANYTHING with such eloquence today? Is eloquence dead?
 


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