Author Topic: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit  (Read 13685 times)

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Offline nctnico

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2017, 01:30:41 am »
You head out into the bush, totally secure that your GPS device 's batteries are full and all of a sudden the device dies, WITHOUT WARNING.  Depending on how lost/prepared you are could at this point lead to you dying as well.
I'd never go out on such a trip without a spare GPS+batteries (and plenty of water and some food).
Harsh but frank, if you go out on a journey where your life could be endangered by getting lost and don't pack a compass, you're an idiot and probably not much loss to the gene-pool.
You are right. I don't think that way because where I live you just meet someone or just walk a bit and ring someone's doorbell to ask for directions. It is impossible to get lost. Sometimes I use the sun's elevation and position though to estimate time and direction.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2017, 02:37:04 am »
Harsh but frank, if you go out on a journey where your life could be endangered by getting lost and don't pack a compass, you're an idiot and probably not much loss to the gene-pool.
You are right. I don't think that way because where I live you just meet someone or just walk a bit and ring someone's doorbell to ask for directions. It is impossible to get lost. Sometimes I use the sun's elevation and position though to estimate time and direction.
[/quote]

Most of us, myself included, live in places where the habitat isn't actively trying to kill us (Australia for instance, killer spiders that hide in toilets, and cute bloody wombats that kill dogs, WTF is that all about?) so it's not something we think about, the only reason I thought of it is a friend who's involved with mountain rescue is always moaning about people on the moors with smartphones for GPS.

*UPDATE*

Turns out the puppy was found safe and well, the wombat didn't kill it, it just ran away because the wombat scared it and the puppy's mother is recovering nicely from the snakebite but still, toilet spiders... 
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 09:46:50 pm by CJay »
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Offline edy

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2017, 10:06:38 am »
Hey Dave,

Nice video as usual and glad your are enjoying your holidays. I think your cow-excrement debunking videos are great! Yes it takes more work (as you say, orders of magnitude), but it is important. Don't kid yourself though, I'm sure you realize by now that you won't necessarily be "swaying" the vast majority of people who fall for this garbage. It will be an uphill battle that you will likely not win anyways. But the fight, regardless how futile, is still worth it... even if it only breaks through to a few.  :box:

The vast majority of your fans already can smell B.S. a mile away, thanks to your educational videos. Your debunking videos are like preaching to the choir. It may be hard to break through to people being scammed, and you can't compete on marketing budget. The scammers will always be ahead. I'm not sure if you have any statistics on how many of your videos are watched by "regulars" and how many are watched by people interested in say Solar Roadways or Batterizer and just randomly land on your video. If you at least catch some of the general public, in a way "Google-washing" or "Google-Bombing" the terms you are trying to debunk, that can at least help ignite a bit of skepticism in otherwise clueless people.

As far as suggestions go on the videos, I'm really happy if you get back into some of the basics again. I know it may seem boring but you must have a huge number of fans who are just beginning to get into electronics and would like to learn fundamentals. I feel like you are a great "popularizer" of electronics, like Carl Sagan, Neil deGrasse Tyson,  Richard Feynman, and similar educators have had on their respective fields. It certainly makes the next generation excited in the field, and the opportunities today are so vast, the cost barrier to entry is almost nothing. All you need is interest, hard work, and time commitment.

Keep up the good work, keep debunking, keep giving us a few basics on simple circuits and why/how they work the way they do, and don't be discouraged that your message is not getting through to the uneducated "sheeple" of the world that keep these scammer's products selling.  :)   There are people listening and they are the ones you are focusing on and value what you have to offer.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:09:07 am by edy »
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Offline Assafl

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2017, 09:41:30 pm »
Batteroo is a very cheap way to unlearn that we can command physics and chemistry (we can't - they are our lords and we will always obey) and relearn how to use skepticism to identify ludicrous claims - and learn what objective reality means.

By helping 1 person learn how to objectively assess a claim (learn, unlearn and relearn) - you have saved a life. It is hard, depressing work - and it has been for at least 2000 years - after all it was the essence of the work of the prophets - and they hated it and many tried to escape (hence Jonah tried to escape by boat and was returned to do his work by a fish or a whale!). Good and amusing metaphor for atheists!

Good work - take many breaks. And learn to avoid thinking about the stupidity, and the sheer evil that profits off of the stupidity. (I do some volunteer work in Anti-Semitic and Vaccination Opposition think tanks and responders - hate every minute of it but it is important - As volunteering goes - I always go home depressed instead of feeling elated).

“The illiterate of the 21st Century are not those who cannot read and write but those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn.”
? Alvin Toffler, Powershift: Knowledge, Wealth, and Power at the Edge of the 21st Century

“By instructing students how to learn, unlearn and relearn, a powerful new dimension can be added to education. Psychologist Herbert Gerjuoy of the Human Resources Research Organization phrases it simply: ‘The new education must teach the individual how to classify and reclassify information, how to evaluate its veracity, how to change categories when necessary, how to move from the concrete to the abstract and back, how to look at problems from a new direction—how to teach himself. Tomorrow’s illiterate will not be the man who can’t read; he will be the man who has not learned how to learn.”
? Alvin Toffler
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2017, 01:34:37 am »
Most of us, myself included, live in places where the habitat isn't actively trying to kill us (Australia for instance, killer spiders that hide in toilets, and cute bloody wombats that kill dogs, WTF is that all about?) so it's not something we think about, the only reason I thought of it is a friend who's involved with mountain rescue is always moaning about people on the moors with smartphones for GPS.

The thing about Britain is that everybody thinks it's all harmless - a temperate oceanic climate, the most remote place is only 7 miles (as the crow flies) from a metalled road etc. etc. Get a mere 1000 feet above sea level in the West Highlands or Snowdonia and you can enjoy every climatic condition that Britain can throw at you, all in the space of four hours.

I remember one day in early September starting to walk from Kinlochmore/Kinlochleven (elevation around 10m) up around the edge of the Mamores towards Fort William. When we started out it was warm and sunny and a t-shirt and shorts was all you wanted to wear. By the time we had walked around two miles along and 300 metres up the weather had changed to freezing cold torrential rain with the occasional hail and the cloud was dropping to become fog. The weather was bad enough that, on safety grounds, we turned around and walked back down off the hills (we had planned a wild camp that night). When I finally got to take it off, I discovered that the two outside pockets on my waterproof had about three inches of rainwater in them.

Turns out the puppy was found safe and well, the wombat didn't kill it, it just ran away because the wombat scared it and the puppy's mother is recovering nicely from the snakebite but still, toilet spiders...

Toilet spiders? Ha! It's the dropbears you have to look out for!
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Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2017, 02:01:58 am »
The thing about Britain is that everybody thinks it's all harmless - a temperate oceanic climate, the most remote place is only 7 miles (as the crow flies) from a metalled road etc. etc. Get a mere 1000 feet above sea level in the West Highlands or Snowdonia and you can enjoy every climatic condition that Britain can throw at you, all in the space of four hours.


Oh it's definitely not harmless, but most of us Brits live in urban areas where the most dangerous thing we encounter is a dodgy kebab.
Even the ones of us who do live outside those bits are unlikely to live in bits where there are venomous snakes (which typo'd as snaks but, contrary to popular belief, even a Pot Noodle isn't actually venomous), crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I remember one day in early September starting to walk from Kinlochmore/Kinlochleven (elevation around 10m) up around the edge of the Mamores towards Fort William. When we started out it was warm and sunny and a t-shirt and shorts was all you wanted to wear. By the time we had walked around two miles along and 300 metres up the weather had changed to freezing cold torrential rain with the occasional hail and the cloud was dropping to become fog. The weather was bad enough that, on safety grounds, we turned around and walked back down off the hills (we had planned a wild camp that night). When I finally got to take it off, I discovered that the two outside pockets on my waterproof had about three inches of rainwater in them.
Yup, I've done lots of 'wild' bits which could have been pretty unpleasant if the weather and poor preparation came into play.

Turns out the puppy was found safe and well, the wombat didn't kill it, it just ran away because the wombat scared it and the puppy's mother is recovering nicely from the snakebite but still, toilet spiders...

Toilet spiders? Ha! It's the dropbears you have to look out for!
[/quote]

Dropbears?

Pfft, I give you Stoffel, escapologist honey badger!:

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2017, 02:41:37 am »
Dropbears?

Ask any Australian, they'll tell you all about them. Just as, if asked by an Aussie, you or I would explain the rules of the game 'Mornington Crescent' to them.
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Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2017, 02:52:57 am »
Dropbears?

Ask any Australian, they'll tell you all about them. Just as, if asked by an Aussie, you or I would explain the rules of the game 'Mornington Crescent' to them.

Well that's a whole different kettle of fish, hardly comparable to fictional nonsense like dropbears, while they may be able to grasp the basic rules the subtleties of the game, such as the Kensal Green gambit or when to play (or even not) any of the Bakerloo strategies can take decades to master.

To be really successful any faster they'd need intensive coaching from someone like Mrs Edna Trellis but she so rarely sends letters of invitation these days.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2017, 05:37:19 am »
Dropbears?

Ask any Australian, they'll tell you all about them. Just as, if asked by an Aussie, you or I would explain the rules of the game 'Mornington Crescent' to them.

Well that's a whole different kettle of fish, hardly comparable to fictional nonsense like dropbears, while they may be able to grasp the basic rules the subtleties of the game, such as the Kensal Green gambit or when to play (or even not) any of the Bakerloo strategies can take decades to master.

To be really successful any faster they'd need intensive coaching from someone like Mrs Edna Trellis but she so rarely sends letters of invitation these days.

I see we are in complete agreement. Except possibly about the Durham rules, nobody ever agrees with me about them.

Don't underestimate the Aussies though, it's quite possible that they may have caught John Arlott's masterclass that was transmitted while rain stopped play, and between cake tastings, during the Test against Australia in, I think, 1977.
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Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2017, 06:24:44 am »
I see we are in complete agreement. Except possibly about the Durham rules, nobody ever agrees with me about them.

Well of course not, they were deprecated in league matches after the "regrettable" incident which lead to the revocation of the Hippodrome's MC licence in 1983.

I understand that there is a grass roots movement to have them reinstated and feelings run high whenever they're discussed, but I hope we can be civilised here and at least attempt to be gentlemanly about this, if you agree not to invoke the Turnham Green subterfuge then I won't mention Russell Square and we could indulge in a friendly game, for recreational purposes of course.

Don't underestimate the Aussies though, it's quite possible that they may have caught John Arlott's masterclass that was transmitted while rain stopped play, and between cake tastings, during the Test against Australia in, I think, 1977.

Well, now that's a blast from the past and well remembered, I think I have those three days of masterclass archived somewhere, of coure they're rather dated now and obviously make no mention of the more modern rules such as DLR (which I know is contentious) but for nostalgia purposes and as a basic introduction it'd be great.

Finsbury Park.
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Offline edy

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2017, 06:52:42 am »
Drop bears.... ha ha!  :-DD

Reminds me of this....

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Offline Fungus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2017, 07:33:41 am »
Don't underestimate the Aussies though, it's quite possible that they may have caught John Arlott's masterclass that was transmitted while rain stopped play, and between cake tastings, during the Test against Australia in, I think, 1977.

Well, now that's a blast from the past and well remembered

I wasn't aware of those, thanks for the heads-up.



(...also enjoyed a few games of Mornington Crescent in my time)
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2017, 12:07:41 pm »
... and we could indulge in a friendly game, for recreational purposes of course.

I think we've wandered off topic far enough and long enough. Considering that a full game, with all the diversions on rules etcetera, could rival the Batteriser thread in length perhaps we'd better not. Also bare in mind that everybody apart from the Brits, probably the Kiwis and possibly the Aussies are scratching their heads wondering what the heck we're talking about. It's been fun though...
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 12:10:18 pm by Cerebus »
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Online Brumby

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2017, 12:22:04 pm »
Here's one Aussie who's not scratching their head.

I've sat in on 3 or 4 games - but haven't participated as yet.  The rules do have an anguished elegance about them.

It doesn't translocate to the Antipodes particularly well and one attempt at a local adaptation just didn't have the same feel.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 12:24:35 pm by Brumby »
 

Online Brumby

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2017, 02:50:36 pm »
I've heard that if you get four Yorkshiremen playing a game, it can be enthralling and unforgettable.  Never had the opportunity myself - has anyone else?
 

Offline SpaceCow

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2017, 06:58:02 am »
I would prefer less of the bullshit-refuting than more. Occasional videos are fine, particularly if the bullshit is interesting, but doing it for the sake of justice or whatever just doesn't ring with me as a fan. I'd rather just get more creative and educational content which allow me to identify bullshit myself rather than you telling me. I really don't think this stuff like the Batterizer deserves so much time and effort. Yes, it was interesting to see how far the bullshit could go, but by now it is just kinda exhausting. We're never going to win the crusade against bullshit in the world, so I'd rather we not spend so much time trying.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2017, 10:16:21 am »
I would prefer less of the bullshit-refuting than more. Occasional videos are fine, particularly if the bullshit is interesting, but doing it for the sake of justice or whatever just doesn't ring with me as a fan. I'd rather just get more creative and educational content which allow me to identify bullshit myself rather than you telling me.

I like to think that every debunking video I do provides the tools to help people detect the BS themselves. Indeed, my original Batteriser video was a tutorial of sorts on how to debunk a product.
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2017, 10:31:12 am »

Even the ones of us who do live outside those bits are unlikely to live in bits where there are venomous snakes (which typo'd as snaks but, contrary to popular belief, even a Pot Noodle isn't actually venomous),

I remember having a British Rail pie which came close back in the day----apparently the training course didn't include the fact that you needed to remove the "Gladwrap" before putting the thing in the piewarmer! ;D
Quote

crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I can understand Brits,but Americans also  recoil in horror---this from a country which has land animals which can eat you!

« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 01:57:15 am by vk6zgo »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2017, 02:37:48 am »
I don't know whether "Calling Bullshit in an Age of Big Data" is a serious suggestion for a course at the author's university or just a very well executed spoof. Indeed, I think that's half the point of it. Either way it's worth a look.

Make sure you read the second disclaimer at the bottom of the home page properly, all the the way to the end.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2017, 07:37:21 pm »
Make sure you read the second disclaimer at the bottom of the home page properly, all the the way to the end.

I'm guessing it's a bit like the Penn and Teller TV program of the same name.

Penn and Teller have to be very careful not to call anybody a "liar" or a "con artist" or anything else with a legal definition. Calling them "assholes", "cocksuckers", etc.? Perfectly fine.

That's one of the reasons there's so much creative profanity in the show (the other reason is that they enjoy it).

 

Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2017, 09:01:16 pm »
I would prefer less of the bullshit-refuting than more. Occasional videos are fine, particularly if the bullshit is interesting, but doing it for the sake of justice or whatever just doesn't ring with me as a fan. I'd rather just get more creative and educational content which allow me to identify bullshit myself rather than you telling me.

I like to think that every debunking video I do provides the tools to help people detect the BS themselves. Indeed, my original Batteriser video was a tutorial of sorts on how to debunk a product.

I have to agree, give people the tools to refute bullshit and there will be less bullshit to refute, your videos give good technical reasons why these things (solar roadways, batterizer etc.) are at best dubious, at worst scams so that people can develop their own critical thinking skills, keep 'em coming please.
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Offline CJay

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2017, 09:06:42 pm »

crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I can understand Brits,but Americans also  recoil in horror---this from a country which has land animals which can eat you!
[/quote]

Well the 'merkin's problem with Aus is that you guys haven't worked out a way to print warnings on the wildlife yet so they've no idea who to sue, when was the last time you turned over a Taipan and read:

'Caution, bites may cause agonisingly slow death'

or

'Warning, animal may disembowel you'

on a cassowary?
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Offline jonovid

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2017, 09:46:58 pm »
Quote
Quote
crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I can understand Brits,but Americans also  recoil in horror---this from a country which has land animals which can eat you!


Well the 'merkin's problem with Aus is that you guys haven't worked out a way to print warnings on the wildlife yet so they've no idea who to sue, when was the last time you turned over a Taipan and read:

'Caution, bites may cause agonisingly slow death'

or

'Warning, animal may disembowel you'

on a cassowary?

the warning signs are at airport if you try to remove animals from Australia  ::)
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Online Brumby

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2017, 11:53:24 pm »
Quote
Quote
crocodiles, deadly spiders that lurk under the loo seat etc. :)

I can understand Brits,but Americans also  recoil in horror---this from a country which has land animals which can eat you!


Well the 'merkin's problem with Aus is that you guys haven't worked out a way to print warnings on the wildlife yet so they've no idea who to sue, when was the last time you turned over a Taipan and read:

'Caution, bites may cause agonisingly slow death'

or

'Warning, animal may disembowel you'

on a cassowary?

the warning signs are at airport if you try to remove animals from Australia  ::)

Yeah .... don't try that.  You'll get a rather bad experience - whether it's border control or ordinary Aussies who catch you.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit
« Reply #74 on: January 17, 2017, 10:56:27 am »
Make sure you read the second disclaimer at the bottom of the home page properly, all the the way to the end.

I'm guessing it's a bit like the Penn and Teller TV program of the same name.

Penn and Teller have to be very careful not to call anybody a "liar" or a "con artist" or anything else with a legal definition. Calling them "assholes", "cocksuckers", etc.? Perfectly fine.

That's one of the reasons there's so much creative profanity in the show (the other reason is that they enjoy it).

Perhaps you're not old enough to get the Carly Simon reference (a variation on lyrics from "You're so vain") at the end of the disclaimer which makes it clear that the disclaimer is more than a little tongue in cheek. Anybody who listened to the radio in the 70's would know that song.
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