eevRANT: Refuting Bullshit

[JiggyNinja]

Somehow the concept of 'protecting' consumers from scams especially via laws sounds pretty ineffective to me. Educational information is certainly called for either public or private, the expression Caveat emptor is still probably the most effective route to take. Being skeptical is the best human protection mechanism.

As an engineer I can clearly see if something is bullshit in my area, but when it comes to let's say medical treatment I am totally bullshit unprotected so the only thing I can rely on is doctors credentials. In other words there must be a way to effectively RETALIATE against someone who exploited your lack of expertise in given area. Retaliatory measures must be proportional to the damage caused, it should include things like time I have wasted in result etc.

This x10,000.

The Batteroo is transparently obvious bullshit to us because we are knowledgeable about this field. We have much more specific knowledge than the average person does about battery chemistry and electrical power conversion not because we're smarter, but because this is our career and/or hobby. To someone without a deep understanding of this field, I can easily see how they could believe Batteroo's marketing. It's just vague and plausible enough to sound reasonable.

It's rather like the herbal medicine industry. Unlike a truly delusional form of quackery like homeopathy (as an example), there's nothing inherently insane about the idea of herbal medicine. In fact, many of our medicines are synthesized from chemicals produced by plants and animals. You need to look much deeper into issue before you find out that "alternative medicine" is not tested by the FDA, and why that's such a big deal. The idea itself that herbs can have significant pharmacological effects is not crazy, it's the details of which plants are claimed to have which effects that are unsubstantiated by evidence.

Batteroo's marketing is based on the following 3 statements:

• Battery voltage is reduced as it discharges.
• Battery powered devices require a minimum amount of voltage to work properly.
• The Batteroo device boosts the battery voltage to be the same as a fresh battery.

All of these things are completely true, and everyone here will agree with that. The chain of reasoning that starts with these precepts and ends with "Batteroo lets you use all the energy in a battery" has just enough "truthiness" in it that it's easy to believe if you don't have a deep understanding of the many other ancillary details that make the idea fall apart.

It's nice to tell people to "be skeptical", but doing that well is an extremely hard thing to do. It can take years to truly develop of a good understanding of a complex subject. If you haven't been able to do that, they only shortcut you have is to read things that other people have said and try to figure out who you are willing to trust. There is no other feasible way.

That is why it is important in a civilized society to hold people to certain standards of honesty, and to have punishments given to those that try to abuse trust and ignorance for personal gain. It is not the victim's fault for being lied to, it is the liar's fault for lying. Don't take your eyes off of the real source of the problem when you race to blame the victim.

[vodka]

Somehow the concept of 'protecting' consumers from scams especially via laws sounds pretty ineffective to me. Educational information is certainly called for either public or private, the expression Caveat emptor is still probably the most effective route to take. Being skeptical is the best human protection mechanism.

As an engineer I can clearly see if something is bullshit in my area, but when it comes to let's say medical treatment I am totally bullshit unprotected so the only thing I can rely on is doctors credentials. In other words there must be a way to effectively RETALIATE against someone who exploited your lack of expertise in given area. Retaliatory measures must be proportional to the damage caused, it should include things like time I have wasted in result etc.

This x10,000.

It's rather like the herbal medicine industry. Unlike a truly delusional form of quackery like homeopathy (as an example), there's nothing inherently insane about the idea of herbal medicine. In fact, many of our medicines are synthesized from chemicals produced by plants and animals. You need to look much deeper into issue before you find out that "alternative medicine" is not tested by the FDA, and why that's such a big deal. The idea itself that herbs can have significant pharmacological effects is not crazy, it's the details of which plants are claimed to have which effects that are unsubstantiated by evidence.

The trouble with the homeopathy is that they say that sell a product 100% natural, but the really is that el 99% is filling and the 1% is natural  to  expensive price than if you get the  medicinal plant of the country.

And the evidencies can give between quotation marks because  these are very manipulable according to interests of Lords of World.

"Before the olive oil was the worst oil on the world , today it is the best of world"
"Before the pork meat was the worst meat of the world,today the pig is olive tree with legs"
"Recently, the grease was the enemy public number one, today is the sugar that is more dangerous that the cocaine"

[JiggyNinja]

The trouble with the homeopathy is that they say that sell a product 100% natural, but the really is that el 99% is filling and the 1% is natural  to  expensive price than if you get the  medicinal plant of the country.

And the evidencies can give between quotation marks because  these are very manipulable according to interests of Lords of World.

"Before the olive oil was the worst oil on the world , today it is the best of world"
"Before the pork meat was the worst meat of the world,today the pig is olive tree with legs"
"Recently, the grease was the enemy public number one, today is the sugar that is more dangerous that the cocaine"

I'm not sure if there's a language barrier issue going on here, because I'm not sure how your post relates to mine. Do you know what homeopathy actually is? A properly prepared homeopathic product (I will not call it a medicine or remedy, even in scare quotes) is so highly diluted it would be chemically indistinguishable from the water used to dilute it. You have to be completely delusional about (not just ignorant of) the ways biology and chemistry work to believe that homeopathy makes sense.

Homeopathy is a different kind of quackery than the frequent reversals of advice that you are citing, which are most often the fault of shitty, stupid journalists hyping up minor results as revolutionary for click-bait headlines. The same way that shitty, stupid journalists hyped up Batterizer's bullshit without verification for click-bait headlines.

[Fungus]

The trouble with the homeopathy is that they say that sell a product 100% natural, but the really is that el 99% is filling and the 1% is natural 

What's so great about "natural"? I invite any homeopathist to go outside and start eating random plants to see what happens.

And if homeopathy science works then surely the pee of the people taking the medicine will leak into the rivers and oceans. That makes every drop of water on earth into an incredibly potent medicine! Why is there any illness left in the world? Why aren't we all asleep from the homeopathic sleeping pills?

Fact is: Most people don't even know what "homeopathy" is or what it's based on. To them it's just a pretty word that sounds like "home-made, traditional stuff" when in fact it's a bunch of woo-woo invented by a mad German before we even knew what bacteria were.

Just ask them if they eat food at home with traditional Chinese eating tools, or if they believe that western scientists have invented something better than that?

Edit: PS: It's a lot less then 1% - usually less than 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% in fact. Any impurity whatsoever in the preparation will totally cancel out the medicinal properties.

 As far as I know there's no water on earth that's 10^-40% pure and I have no idea what they use to wash their apparatus before preparation. 

[nctnico]

The trouble with the homeopathy is that they say that sell a product 100% natural, but the really is that el 99% is filling and the 1% is natural 

Phosgene gas is lethal at much lower concentrations (down to only a few ppm). If you want to refute bullshit then do it properly using a scientific method.

edit: typos

[Cerebus]

You head out into the bush, totally secure that your GPS device 's batteries are full and all of a sudden the device dies, WITHOUT WARNING.  Depending on how lost/prepared you are could at this point lead to you dying as well.

I'd never go out on such a trip without a spare GPS+batteries (and plenty of water and some food).

Spare batteries? Yes. Spare GPS? No; a waterproofed map, a compass and knowledge of how to use the two together. Weighs less than a spare GPS, works after being dropped, soaked, torn etcetera but not after being eaten by camels or goats (but neither does a GPS).

[Cerebus]

What's so great about "natural"?

I think the idea of "natural" remedies as better (in the way many think about them now) came out in the 60's/70's when the Thalidomide disaster was front of mind, as was DDT ("Silent Spring") and any other number of man-made disasters caused by tinkering with biochemistry using industrial chemistry. It's easy to see how someone could view a traditional remedy as "evolution tested" and see that as better than the alternative, which appeared to be "laboratory tested, badly".

I invite any homeopathist to go outside and start eating random plants to see what happens.

Well, nothing, as they would dilute it several million to one before consuming it. 

Just ask them if they eat food at home with traditional Chinese eating tools, or if they believe that western scientists have invented something better than that?

A fallacious comparison based on cultural bias and your inability to use chopsticks properly. Chopsticks are cheap, easy to manufacture, easy to clean, more precise and present a lower environmental impact than knives and forks. 

[Fungus]

A fallacious comparison based on cultural bias and your inability to use chopsticks properly. Chopsticks are cheap, easy to manufacture, easy to clean, more precise and present a lower environmental impact than knives and forks. 

Rubbish.

a) Their main diet (rice) is totally unsuited to being eaten with thin wooden sticks.
b) Spoons can be made with bamboo (also knives good enough to cut with cooked food).
c) You're going to have to explain the "more precise" part to me over a plate of button mushrooms in oyster sauce.

[StillTrying]

I've often wondered about these hard water things, often sold for a high price on the shopping channels.
I think  myself.
http://www.scalewizard.co.uk/howitworks.htm

[Cerebus]

a) Their main diet (rice) is totally unsuited to being eaten with thin wooden sticks.

You see, you don't know how to use them. Lift rice bowl, shovel... You'd be amazed at the speed a hungry Chinese teenager can empty a bowl of rice with chopsticks.

c) You're going to have to explain the "more precise" part to me over a plate of button mushrooms in oyster sauce.

You can get that last noodle, or last grain of rice out of the bottom of the bowl with chopsticks much more easily than with a spoon or fork. As to the button mushroom challenge, do you plan to wear eye protection? We'll have to stage it at Wong Kei so there's no realistic temptation to use Western table accoutrements.

[Fungus]

You see, you don't know how to use them.

Sure I do

(I actually learned the skill in the orient...)

Lift rice bowl, shovel...

Lift rice bowl to touch mouth, tilt head back, shovel it in, yes.

Bonus points for filling the cheeks like a hamster.

You'd be amazed at the speed a hungry Chinese teenager can empty a bowl of rice with chopsticks.

I bet a western spoon (or fork) is even faster 

[mikerj]

You see, you don't know how to use them. Lift rice bowl, shovel... You'd be amazed at the speed a hungry Chinese teenager can empty a bowl of rice with chopsticks.

The original statement does need to be qualified:  Chopsticks are unsuitable for eating rice consistent with Western standards of table manners.

[Cerebus]

You see, you don't know how to use them. Lift rice bowl, shovel... You'd be amazed at the speed a hungry Chinese teenager can empty a bowl of rice with chopsticks.

The original statement does need to be qualified:  Chopsticks are unsuitable for eating rice consistent with Western standards of table manners.

You do realize that we're both having a bit of a giggle, don't you?

[retrolefty]

You see, you don't know how to use them. Lift rice bowl, shovel... You'd be amazed at the speed a hungry Chinese teenager can empty a bowl of rice with chopsticks.

The original statement does need to be qualified:  Chopsticks are unsuitable for eating rice consistent with Western standards of table manners.

You do realize that we're both having a bit of a giggle, don't you?

 Careful, eating while giggling can be hazardous to ones health.

[kalleboo]

a) Their main diet (rice) is totally unsuited to being eaten with thin wooden sticks.

Parboiled rice from the west, yes, but the sticky rice prevalent in Asia is perfectly suited to eating with sticks.

[nctnico]

You'd be amazed at the speed a hungry Chinese teenager can empty a bowl of rice with chopsticks.

I bet a western spoon (or fork) is even faster 

I never mastered using chopsticks well enough to eat rice so I usually ask for a spoon. Then again I wouldn't know a better way to eat Sushi than using chopsticks. BTW many Asian people use their right hand to eat rice if it is too loose to use chopsticks.

[Fungus]

Then again I wouldn't know a better way to eat Sushi than using chopsticks.

If you mean the typical nigiri sushi you're supposed to turn it upside down and put the fish side on the tongue. It's almost impossible to do elegantly with chopsticks.

Real sushi eaters use fingers.

[Bigwind]

Hi Dave, I have followed you for quite a while and am usually a passive viewer. I am sure you have noticed that the smallest, most inconsequential subjects seem to take up the most time and effort. All this rubbish about the batteriser is a prime example. The fact that you feel it is necessary to interrupt your holiday to post a message only goes to support this. The fact that I am writing this, even more so!
I have been involved in electronics and engineering for most of my working life (I have been retired for several years now) and it doesn't take a genius to see right through this scam.
Can we now drop this subject and return to the interesting subjects you normally give us?
I see you Aussies still need to return to your roots to remind yourselves of where you come from. You must be really enjoying your typically English holiday, sea, sand and rain!
Enjoy the rest of your holiday and come back with renewed enthusiasm for giving us your great videos!
Cheers! as we Brits say.

[CJay]

You head out into the bush, totally secure that your GPS device 's batteries are full and all of a sudden the device dies, WITHOUT WARNING.  Depending on how lost/prepared you are could at this point lead to you dying as well.

I'd never go out on such a trip without a spare GPS+batteries (and plenty of water and some food).

Harsh but frank, if you go out on a journey where your life could be endangered by getting lost and don't pack a compass, you're an idiot and probably not much loss to the gene-pool.

[mikerj]

You see, you don't know how to use them. Lift rice bowl, shovel... You'd be amazed at the speed a hungry Chinese teenager can empty a bowl of rice with chopsticks.

The original statement does need to be qualified:  Chopsticks are unsuitable for eating rice consistent with Western standards of table manners.

You do realize that we're both having a bit of a giggle, don't you?

Of course   Just saying that the average westerner would be pretty horrified by the eating habits of the Chinese.

[kalleboo]

Am I curious enough to read on and find out how this thread got onto chopsticks? . . .

Nah.

It's eevRANT, in this one case I don't feel bad about going off-topic

I never mastered using chopsticks well enough to eat rice so I usually ask for a spoon

Don't feel bad about it, the Koreans agree with you and there a spoon is customary for rice, bibimbap, etc.

Real sushi eaters use fingers.

Here in Japan, when you eat affordably-priced sushi (bentos, conveyor belt places or something from a pub-style place), most people will be eating nigiri with chopsticks. Eating with your fingers isn't weird, but most people don't do it (how else will you be able to Instagram your meal with sticky fingers?). When you get to more fancy bespoke sushi restaurants, yeah then the fingers come out. I guess the majority of Japanese aren't real sushi eaters.

It's almost impossible to do elegantly with chopsticks.

It's not too hard to do if the sushi is made correctly, I do it semi-weekly

[nctnico]

You head out into the bush, totally secure that your GPS device 's batteries are full and all of a sudden the device dies, WITHOUT WARNING.  Depending on how lost/prepared you are could at this point lead to you dying as well.

I'd never go out on such a trip without a spare GPS+batteries (and plenty of water and some food).

Harsh but frank, if you go out on a journey where your life could be endangered by getting lost and don't pack a compass, you're an idiot and probably not much loss to the gene-pool.

You are right. I don't think that way because where I live you just meet someone or just walk a bit and ring someone's doorbell to ask for directions. It is impossible to get lost. Sometimes I use the sun's elevation and position though to estimate time and direction.

[CJay]

Harsh but frank, if you go out on a journey where your life could be endangered by getting lost and don't pack a compass, you're an idiot and probably not much loss to the gene-pool.

You are right. I don't think that way because where I live you just meet someone or just walk a bit and ring someone's doorbell to ask for directions. It is impossible to get lost. Sometimes I use the sun's elevation and position though to estimate time and direction.
[/quote]

Most of us, myself included, live in places where the habitat isn't actively trying to kill us (Australia for instance, killer spiders that hide in toilets, and cute bloody wombats that kill dogs, WTF is that all about?) so it's not something we think about, the only reason I thought of it is a friend who's involved with mountain rescue is always moaning about people on the moors with smartphones for GPS.

*UPDATE*

Turns out the puppy was found safe and well, the wombat didn't kill it, it just ran away because the wombat scared it and the puppy's mother is recovering nicely from the snakebite but still, toilet spiders... 

[edy]

Hey Dave,

Nice video as usual and glad your are enjoying your holidays. I think your cow-excrement debunking videos are great! Yes it takes more work (as you say, orders of magnitude), but it is important. Don't kid yourself though, I'm sure you realize by now that you won't necessarily be "swaying" the vast majority of people who fall for this garbage. It will be an uphill battle that you will likely not win anyways. But the fight, regardless how futile, is still worth it... even if it only breaks through to a few. 

The vast majority of your fans already can smell B.S. a mile away, thanks to your educational videos. Your debunking videos are like preaching to the choir. It may be hard to break through to people being scammed, and you can't compete on marketing budget. The scammers will always be ahead. I'm not sure if you have any statistics on how many of your videos are watched by "regulars" and how many are watched by people interested in say Solar Roadways or Batterizer and just randomly land on your video. If you at least catch some of the general public, in a way "Google-washing" or "Google-Bombing" the terms you are trying to debunk, that can at least help ignite a bit of skepticism in otherwise clueless people.

As far as suggestions go on the videos, I'm really happy if you get back into some of the basics again. I know it may seem boring but you must have a huge number of fans who are just beginning to get into electronics and would like to learn fundamentals. I feel like you are a great "popularizer" of electronics, like Carl Sagan, Neil deGrasse Tyson,  Richard Feynman, and similar educators have had on their respective fields. It certainly makes the next generation excited in the field, and the opportunities today are so vast, the cost barrier to entry is almost nothing. All you need is interest, hard work, and time commitment.

Keep up the good work, keep debunking, keep giving us a few basics on simple circuits and why/how they work the way they do, and don't be discouraged that your message is not getting through to the uneducated "sheeple" of the world that keep these scammer's products selling.     There are people listening and they are the ones you are focusing on and value what you have to offer.

[Assafl]

Batteroo is a very cheap way to unlearn that we can command physics and chemistry (we can't - they are our lords and we will always obey) and relearn how to use skepticism to identify ludicrous claims - and learn what objective reality means.

By helping 1 person learn how to objectively assess a claim (learn, unlearn and relearn) - you have saved a life. It is hard, depressing work - and it has been for at least 2000 years - after all it was the essence of the work of the prophets - and they hated it and many tried to escape (hence Jonah tried to escape by boat and was returned to do his work by a fish or a whale!). Good and amusing metaphor for atheists!

Good work - take many breaks. And learn to avoid thinking about the stupidity, and the sheer evil that profits off of the stupidity. (I do some volunteer work in Anti-Semitic and Vaccination Opposition think tanks and responders - hate every minute of it but it is important - As volunteering goes - I always go home depressed instead of feeling elated).

“The illiterate of the 21st Century are not those who cannot read and write but those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn.”
? Alvin Toffler, Powershift: Knowledge, Wealth, and Power at the Edge of the 21st Century

“By instructing students how to learn, unlearn and relearn, a powerful new dimension can be added to education. Psychologist Herbert Gerjuoy of the Human Resources Research Organization phrases it simply: ‘The new education must teach the individual how to classify and reclassify information, how to evaluate its veracity, how to change categories when necessary, how to move from the concrete to the abstract and back, how to look at problems from a new direction—how to teach himself. Tomorrow’s illiterate will not be the man who can’t read; he will be the man who has not learned how to learn.”
? Alvin Toffler