Author Topic: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope  (Read 55850 times)

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Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #675 on: March 15, 2019, 09:34:07 pm »
As the encoder is also used not only to select an option but also to increase / decrease values, a hard stopping detent or dent can make turning the knob for long time make it hard to use... and also Rigol did not implement a good acceleration algorithm (I don't think there is one), you need to rotate it many times or use the touch keypad but sometime you don't know which value to set unless you navigate through many values.  On the Keysight it is very easy to go from MHz to KHz using the knob, i.e. to select the output frequency of the AWG.  I could not find a fine/coarse option on the Rigol knob.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #676 on: March 15, 2019, 11:42:40 pm »
Photo attached of the plugs they put on 2ch model.

Nice!

I'm guessing they had a lot of idiots sending 'scopes back because "Two of the channels don't work!", but those are cool.

A full set of them might of them might fetch $10 on eBay.  :popcorn:
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #677 on: March 16, 2019, 04:10:06 am »
To Keep the hacking thread clean, I´ll carry on here.
Done the "upgrade" Thing, before I took a pic from the 70Mhz BW while the 40ps pulse-gen. was running:



(Unfortunately forgotten the 50 \$\Omega\$ Termination)

Now, with 350Mhz BW:



Quite "faster", but somewhat of a "glitch" into it.

Compare it with lecroy WS3024, first with 1M too:



Looks "better"...

Now, with a 50 \$\Omega\$ external termination resistor, rigol:



No "glitches", really fast (under 1ns) but massive overshoot... :(

Hm, hm....test it with the same resistor on the lecroy:



Aha, same on the lecroy.. 8)
Now, with it´s own integraded 50 \$\Omega\$ termination:



Ahh, perfect.... :D

And external termination as needed by the rigol is just crap.

Ah, some more about the problems, in this case a forgotten thing :
Functiongenerator, decreasing/increasing the amplitude : There´s no choice between Vpp or Vrms, it´s only in V....

« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 06:16:52 am by Martin72 »
 
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Offline Commodore8888

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #678 on: March 16, 2019, 04:37:09 am »
So looks like your's still works relatively well then Martin!

Still waiting over here for an overshoot fix on a couple 5ks and 7ks.
Been in contact with Rigol, and AFAIK, they're looking for a way to get the "work lab" ones done remotely if possible.
The paperwork required to ship them out....would be terrifying.
No word yet on just sending personal stuff in, or if the same "remote software" fix would work on the 5k too.

I'm just hoping it's some special key combo or firmware that allows the full cal. Work has a full lab that'd take care of it for us.

Been lucky so far all we've been doing is basic digital, but there's some fairly sensitive analog stuff coming up and I'd rather not be fighting over the single MDO3000 in our smaller group  :box: Getting more scopes otherwise takes aaaaages. 1mo ages? Nah...try 4+...on a good day.
Mike D
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #679 on: March 16, 2019, 04:58:37 am »
Hi,

Quote
So looks like your's still works relatively well then Martin!

Yes, I got none of the mentioned issues so far( flickering screens, trigger problems, issue by using the averaging mode, non compensable overshoots…).
But the fact that I would have only luck by getting a fine working model... :P

Martin
 

Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #680 on: March 16, 2019, 05:10:34 am »
True about the alignment.  But it is also a compromise to ensure the buttons on the screen are taller for people who likes to use touch. 

Not that they are right in doing this, just a design factor which might cause the misalignment you mentioned.


Another big issue is that the BACK key does not go back on the menu hierarchy navigation, it goes back on the menu navigation steps you took.  I cannot reproduce it, but in one case I ended up in a menu option where the settings were changed and I was shown a previous setting

And it also bothers me a lot that the menu options on the display are not aligned to the right navigation buttons.  Maybe it is time to create a new thread of all the problems with this scope...



One last rant... you need to press the multi-purpose knob all the time, and it is prone to moving and selecting an adjacent option instead of the one you need... you can scroll and it should set the last option where you stopped when scrolling, without needing to press the knob.

One last last rant... when you press the option key, you are presented to the touch keypad... if you want to use the multi-purpose knob, you need to press the option key again to make the touch keypad go away... then you need to scroll and there is no accelerated function, it just scrolls slowly through all the values... you are not presented by default with the typical values, like the UART baud options, etc

And so on and on and on...

The firmware needs to be completely rewritten...
 

Offline KC0PPH

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #681 on: March 16, 2019, 08:57:25 am »
Just curious if those of you who have this would think its still a good buy with the firmware bugs? Are we fairly confident that they will be worked out, or will Rigol ignore these issue?

 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #682 on: March 16, 2019, 09:13:16 am »
Hi,

For me I do - I spend 1069€ for it and it is nothing in sight which can beat it at this price.
And Bugs:
There are some annoying things which could be easily wiped out per firmware updates - Annoying, but not unable to work with this scope yet.
I do have mine on work, use it daily - there was until now nothing which let me take over to another one, except tests which requires official calibrated scopes.
Therefore, for me it´s still a great deal, with the hack for the full options even more.
As I was for weeks in nearly daily touch with the rigol support, I got the impression they take the complaints serious.
They also know this thread here.
Unfortunately, it´s a common method to transform the customers to beta-testers instead of holding the new product off from the market untill it´s nearly flawless.
And so do Rigol too.


 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #683 on: March 16, 2019, 09:28:07 am »
firmware bugs? Are we fairly confident that they will be worked out

Yes.

We don't know exact timeframes though.  :popcorn:
 

Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #684 on: March 17, 2019, 11:51:23 am »
More BUGS... now with i2c... |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O |O

It triggers better than SPI, but cannot decode address and data 90% of the time.

Attached 2 photos, same signal, different decoded information.  I get consistent decoding on Keysight 1000X...

Am I missing something?





EDIT: The threshold on the decoder was set to 0V.  Changed to 1.6V and it is decoding fine now

« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 12:15:59 pm by TK »
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #685 on: March 17, 2019, 12:03:29 pm »
How are thresholds set for decodes?
 
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Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #686 on: March 17, 2019, 12:14:39 pm »
How are thresholds set for decodes?
I had them set at 1.6V but somehow they got reset to 0V.  Now it is decoding correctly.
 
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Offline luma

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #687 on: March 19, 2019, 11:30:19 pm »


I've been monkeying around with XY mode and I have to say I'm not super stoked.  A lot of the options that the DS1054Z had are missing.  For quite a while the 1054 only had split screen mode, with no option to go full screen (added in a later firmware update).  The MSO5000 is the opposite - there's no option for split screen which was handy.  I also don't appear to be able to adjust trigger options while in XY.
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #688 on: March 20, 2019, 07:42:00 am »
Hi,

"New" user guide(02/2019 instead 10/2018) is avaible…



 

Offline el_man

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #689 on: March 20, 2019, 09:22:41 am »
Hi,

"New" user guide(02/2019 instead 10/2018) is avaible…

Yes, I've download it few days ago... but it is the same as previous one - except few words about HiRes mode and a picture of the LA probes and that's all. There isn't a word about the new Eye and Jitter analyzes ....
 

Offline oliv3r

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #690 on: March 21, 2019, 06:28:40 am »


I've been monkeying around with XY mode and I have to say I'm not super stoked.  A lot of the options that the DS1054Z had are missing.  For quite a while the 1054 only had split screen mode, with no option to go full screen (added in a later firmware update).  The MSO5000 is the opposite - there's no option for split screen which was handy.  I also don't appear to be able to adjust trigger options while in XY.
When you say 'split-screen' mode, what do you mean? The 'zoom' button does some split-screening?
 

Offline luma

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #691 on: March 21, 2019, 07:38:31 am »
When you say 'split-screen' mode, what do you mean? The 'zoom' button does some split-screening?

It sure does, but not in XY mode that I can figure out.  See OP here for an example of how this worked on the DS1054Z.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #692 on: March 21, 2019, 07:57:17 am »
Apropos split-screen, this would be a feature which I want to have it on the rigol in every case.
On older LeCroy waverunner models, you can choose between single-grid, dual-grid, quad-grid mode and this is sometimes very useful.
Splitable screen and the possibility of "hiding" channels, that would be great to have.
But first of all I want to have a "real" Hi-Res Mode.... 8)
If you read the description about in the "new" manual and then have a look what´s real going on with it...
 

Offline hhappy1

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #693 on: March 24, 2019, 10:14:40 am »
hi!~ Guy's


I don't English well. But I'm curious.

Who can show me a 1khz sine wave,  fft screen? (mso5000)

fft screen : start-0hz, center-5khz, end-10khz


Because distortion changes every time moving vertical offset.
Keysight and siglent is changes.   Tek and R&S is perfect.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 03:28:56 pm by hhappy1 »
 

Offline luma

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #694 on: March 26, 2019, 05:14:25 am »
 
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Offline hhappy1

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #695 on: March 26, 2019, 11:06:18 am »
Thanks sir.

One more?  Please.

rbw : 10hz
vertical : decibels
window : hanning
scale : 10db

Sweet day.~
 
 

Offline luma

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #696 on: March 26, 2019, 11:49:05 am »


edit: a static screenshot doesn't really illustrate how godawful slow the FFT mode is on this.  Here's what it looks like in real time:

« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 11:57:58 am by luma »
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #697 on: March 26, 2019, 11:33:47 pm »
So you have 10 MS/sec and 10 Hz resolution bandwidth...

What do you think how fast screen should refresh on this FFT ?

In order to have 10 Hz RBW  on 10 MS/s you need to have 1Mpoints FFT. So this is FFT on 1 Mpoint.
And also, in order to get 1 Mpoint at 10 MS/sec , you need 0.1 sec to acquire data for single FFT.

So if FFT took no time to calculate at all, at those setting you would have maximum 10 refreshes per second.

And 1 Mpoint FFT will take a bit of time.
So few times per second is realistic... Even once per second is definitely not slow for a 1 Mpoint FFT at that sampling speed....

As it was mentioned many times before, measurement instruments don't measure anything. Operator does, using instruments.
Know the theory, know how instrument operates and work within it's operating principles and hardware limits.

Regards,
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #698 on: March 27, 2019, 12:36:44 am »
As it was mentioned many times before, measurement instruments don't measure anything. Operator does, using instruments.
Know the theory, know how instrument operates and work within it's operating principles and hardware limits.
Sinisa, I haven't heard that one. I absolutely love it!
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #699 on: March 27, 2019, 01:22:35 am »
More worrying signs about Rigol...

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-customer-service-appaling/msg2297541/#msg2297541

Does anyone know if Rigol ownership changed recently?  I noticed in the back of the scope it does not say Rigol Technologies, it says Rigol (some chinese name I don't recall because my scope was returned) Technologies.
 


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