Author Topic: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope  (Read 36910 times)

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Offline TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #400 on: December 11, 2018, 07:03:55 am »
Your RBW is too high. Try to lower it.
RBW says 20Hz... is it high?
 

Online Qw3rtzuiop

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #401 on: December 11, 2018, 07:15:39 am »
It is too high if you want to measure a peak and care about a deviation of 10 Hz. In general it depends on your requirements.

On most scopes you can increase the RBW by increasing the recorded length -> increase the time base
 

Offline TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #402 on: December 11, 2018, 07:24:17 am »
You are right, I did not see the 10Hz deviation.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #403 on: December 11, 2018, 07:32:44 am »
Manual "says" :

Quote
…..and resolution are displayed at the bottom of the screen, as shown in
the following figure. Of which, FFT resolution is the quotient of the sample rate
and the number of FFT points. If the number of FFT points is a fixed value
(65535 at most), then the lower the sample rate, the higher the resolution.


Damn RTFM...


I try it tomorrow.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #404 on: December 11, 2018, 11:17:56 pm »
The serial decoding abilities of this thing still haven't been fully reviewed (AFAIK) and it looks like they need a firmware update anyway.

What would be interesting is to know is how responsive the web interface is and how fast the sample data can be downloaded over Ethernet.

If data download is fast then it should be quite easy to decode large amounts of serial data using a connected PC.

 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #405 on: December 12, 2018, 04:36:55 am »
Looks like after paying $90 for that pink channel and hoping to enjoy some smooth action may get no satisfaction:

https://youtu.be/G9wMP02Bock?t=157

Is that slow or what for mere 500k bins (if I understand correctly whats behind that jerky action)?
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #406 on: December 12, 2018, 05:06:54 am »
So...Today I do the measure again, watching the resolution and at the timebase of 100ms you got the 1Hz:




So far, I like the fft function of the MSO5074.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #407 on: December 12, 2018, 05:45:52 am »
So...Today I do the measure again, watching the resolution and at the timebase of 100ms you got the 1Hz:

It's hard to get anything else than 1Hz with these settings not limited by hw but math, better try ~0...32MHz with 512k bins (1Mpts) - I get about 10Hz on random scope. And at the approx settings as in video I get about 30Hz.

Edit: Found another example, for these settings it's very slow, and it's not about (nice btw) features being turned on little later. Main function is slow. Lack of math processing power?
https://youtu.be/mX2dZWcFjns?t=284
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 08:51:52 am by MrW0lf »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #408 on: December 12, 2018, 10:04:44 am »
For me it´s not slow in comparison with other scopes here.
Good, other scopes here are older Waverunner models, some Wavesurfer models.
Compare it with them the rigol is even "better".
But what means "slow" in this case…Do you really need a fast responsive FFT...
Apart from this, althoug the tests are not fully done yet, I think about buying the options bundle.
Hacking is a nice thing but ruins your warranty, ruins the reselling price.
And only buying the options bundle, the bandwith upgrades are too expensive and in my case actually unimportant.
A MSO 5074 with options bundle costs about 1800€ - I don´t know any scope which can beat the overall-performance at this price.
If rigol fixed the issues and add some nice to haves, it will be a killer.



 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #409 on: December 12, 2018, 11:23:04 am »
Hacking is a nice thing but ruins your warranty, ruins the reselling price.

The hack is undetectable,  simply put it back how it was. Its just a software switch.
The resale price for any Rigol 5000 series now is less than the 5074 model.
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #410 on: December 12, 2018, 11:55:45 am »
A MSO 5074 with options bundle costs about 1800€ - I don´t know any scope which can beat the overall-performance at this price.
There are other options out there in this price bracket. Though with a smaller display and no touch screen but with good firmware out of the box.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline imo

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #411 on: December 12, 2018, 06:57:42 pm »
@Martin72: read this how to easy unlock and you may contribute with some useful testing effort..
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 06:59:31 pm by imo »
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #412 on: December 12, 2018, 07:02:26 pm »
Hacking is a nice thing but ruins your warranty.

How can it ruin the warranty? You haven't opened the case or done anything outside specification.

The hack can be removed just as easily if you want to resell it.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #413 on: December 12, 2018, 07:04:17 pm »
A MSO 5074 with options bundle costs about 1800€ - I don´t know any scope which can beat the overall-performance at this price.
There are other options out there in this price bracket. Though with a smaller display and no touch screen

And no signal generator.
 

Offline imo

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #414 on: December 12, 2018, 07:16:57 pm »
It seems Martin72 is operating company o'scope thus he is limited in his ability to test the unlocked o'scope..
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #415 on: December 12, 2018, 07:22:19 pm »
A MSO 5074 with options bundle costs about 1800€ - I don´t know any scope which can beat the overall-performance at this price.
There are other options out there in this price bracket. Though with a smaller display and no touch screen
And no signal generator.
Well for example the GW Instek MSO-2074EA has a dual channel 25MHz waveform generator (if you insist on having a function generator in an oscilloscope). It can be uphacked to have 300MHz (on 2 channels) and spectrum analysis mode by using a key generator.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #416 on: December 12, 2018, 07:42:07 pm »
But what means "slow" in this case…Do you really need a fast responsive FFT...

For static signals no, if do not care for eye candy. However for dynamic ones different story. Here it depends how it actually works. If look ordinary mode it seems to be single changing line w/o DPO effect. Main ack is much faster in background. So does it take single wfms (decimates main ack) or somehow combines and takes advantage of full wfm rate. But do not see how you can combine many wfms into single line w/o some sort of averaging, which would be wrong approach. Eg will you miss non-static events. So for regular mode is seems do decimate frames? Not sure for color (dot) mode. Data density of color mode seems higher but still very low compared to time domain trace.
In short, for dynamic stuff you want fastest rate possible. Something along these lines and with waterfall view:


 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #417 on: December 12, 2018, 07:57:21 pm »
It can be uphacked to have 300MHz (on 2 channels) and spectrum analysis mode by using a key generator.

If we're allowed to hack then then Rigol only costs 900 Bucks. And it has 4 channels.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #418 on: December 13, 2018, 05:13:57 am »
Another question (related to the remove viewing capabilities), can it work with a WiFi dongle?
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #419 on: December 13, 2018, 05:38:09 am »
I'm more interested in whether it still decodes properly when you zoom out a bit, eg. does it still decode when a byte of serial data is reduced to a couple of pixels on screen? If not, at what point does it start to fail?

(nb. I'm talking about the event table, not the bytes overlaid horizontally on the signal)


Measures of today, until 20ms the rigol decodes correct.







I found another issue using the event table ( after it´s vanishing when you press "back" or want to turn on another channel, etc):
You can´t proper scrolling the lines, neither with the knob nor with the touchfunction - it´s jumps back and forth between 2,3 lines, you can´t scroll completely down.


Quote
thus he is limited in his ability to test the unlocked o'scope..

Yes, that´s correct, I don´t have all possibilities at work/home to test this scope 100%.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #420 on: December 13, 2018, 06:12:29 am »
I'm more interested in whether it still decodes properly when you zoom out a bit, eg. does it still decode when a byte of serial data is reduced to a couple of pixels on screen? If not, at what point does it start to fail?
Measures of today, until 20ms the rigol decodes correct.

That's really good news! About a thousand SPI clock pulses per screen pixel and it's still decoding.

Definitely not just using the "on screen" data like a DS1054Z does, you should easily be able to frame a decent sized packet of data on screen and see a complete decode in the event table.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 06:23:16 am by Fungus »
 

Offline johnmx

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #421 on: December 13, 2018, 06:38:29 am »
If the decode is from the internal memory, it should decode successfully at 50MSa/s. The sampling rate is ~25 times higher than the SPI clock period. But that's not the case...
Best regards,
johnmx
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #422 on: December 13, 2018, 06:43:07 am »
Quote
you should easily be able to frame a decent sized packet of data on screen and see a complete decode in the event table.

Yes, I did - Respectively I wanted to scroll further than the first 10 lines in the table, but it didn´t work proper, see my post before.
But what I saw in the monents of "Jumping", it were the expected values.

Quote
Definitely not just using the "on screen" data


So it shouldn´t be a big deal for a Firmware update to let the channels hide away from the screen, displaying the Event table only - Although it´s not the most important thing, for sure.

Quote
@Martin72: read this how to easy unlock

Hmmm….makes me curious...
 

Offline imo

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #423 on: December 13, 2018, 07:04:57 am »
Quote
@Martin72: read this how to easy unlock
Hmmm….makes me curious...
User: root
password: root
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #424 on: December 13, 2018, 07:25:19 am »
Quote
you should easily be able to frame a decent sized packet of data on screen and see a complete decode in the event table.

Yes, I did - Respectively I wanted to scroll further than the first 10 lines in the table, but it didn´t work proper, see my post before.
But what I saw in the monents of "Jumping", it were the expected values.

Probably just a firmware thing. The main thing is that it can decode a decent chunk of data.

Let's hope they're working hard on the first update. :popcorn:
 


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