EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: doctorm on July 09, 2010, 11:34:32 am

Title: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: doctorm on July 09, 2010, 11:34:32 am
since i dont have tweeter and maybe some of you dont either i figured it woudl be helpful to Dave if we did a slight poll here to tell him what we think he should do in response to his rescent tweeter post about cutting the $100 MMS short and going to the conclusion.

ill start off and say that it depends on what he has done really. if there is something he left out then he needs to keep going in my opinion.

so who's next??????
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: saturation on July 09, 2010, 11:44:00 am
I vote to keep it very detailed.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: doctorm on July 09, 2010, 11:47:46 am
i agree. the more detail, the less questions we'll have.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: EEVblog on July 09, 2010, 12:10:49 pm
OK!
I'll do a few more things and then do the conclusion.
From memory, already done the general rants, inside inspections, tilting bail, bench grip, HV test, current tests, cap tests, resistance, autorange speed, cont, diode, fuse/battery, current consumption, backlight, and 240V ohms tests.
It adds up to over an 1hr 20min already, and that's fully edited. It's just silly!
I still want to do a basic drop test, plus some other stuff, and then the conclusion.

I know I'll get complaints, but when you think about it, there are 6 meters. If I gave each one a 10 minute review which is fairly short, that's still an hour. And even if you halved that and did say 5 minutes each, that's still half an hour, not including rants and the like.

Those who don't like the length can watch the intro and then skip to the conclusion!

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: doctorm on July 09, 2010, 12:13:53 pm
that sounds good so far. if you wanted you could just put up what you have already as part 1 and then finish up the rest as part 2 so everyone could see what you've done and if they have some ideas or suggestions to add in you can put them in part 2 as extended parts of your discussions and tests. just a thought.....
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: saturation on July 09, 2010, 08:39:17 pm
You can split it into 2 parts, one short and summarized, another detailed, like you did for the Rigol 1052E review.


OK!
I'll do a few more things and then do the conclusion.
From memory, already done the general rants, inside inspections, tilting bail, bench grip, HV test, current tests, cap tests, resistance, autorange speed, cont, diode, fuse/battery, current consumption, backlight, and 240V ohms tests.
It adds up to over an 1hr 20min already, and that's fully edited. It's just silly!
I still want to do a basic drop test, plus some other stuff, and then the conclusion.

I know I'll get complaints, but when you think about it, there are 6 meters. If I gave each one a 10 minute review which is fairly short, that's still an hour. And even if you halved that and did say 5 minutes each, that's still half an hour, not including rants and the like.

Those who don't like the length can watch the intro and then skip to the conclusion!

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: ionioni2000 on July 09, 2010, 08:49:49 pm
Maybe is specified elswhere, but are there from the 6 DMM on new shootout, by chance, one of them Meterman XR37 and/or Extech EX530 ?
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: EEVblog on July 09, 2010, 10:39:26 pm
Maybe is specified elswhere, but are there from the 6 DMM on new shootout, by chance, one of them Meterman XR37 and/or Extech EX530 ?

34XR and EX505

I have already done the 37XR.

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: EEVblog on July 09, 2010, 11:02:18 pm
Hmm, now I'm thinking I might just split it up, as I do get more value that way in terms in channel views, number of videos etc ;-) and hopefully less complaints.
With hindsight, 6 separate reviews might have been ok, but my existing footage does not lend itself to that.
So maybe a summary one with intro, look'n'feel, a few basic tests and conclusion/winner, and another one (or two) with the rest of the testing?
How does that sound?

Not sure about having the conclusion in the 2nd part, as that doesn't make a shorter self contained video people can watch if they just want the skinny on which one to buy. Might as well be just one big video and pause it in that case.

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: doctorm on July 09, 2010, 11:51:14 pm
that sounds great. i would def benefit from just getting to the skinny of what is good or not and then see what happened in the detailed 2nd video. so are you going to try that and upload it today thing, the first video i mean?
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: saturation on July 10, 2010, 12:29:58 am
My feeling is whatever is easiest for you.   You can break it up as you need to for uploading purposes, and prefix each with the summary.

If you break it up, you can get 2,3,4,5 times more 'new material' than one long one.  I'm more apt to watched a long video in 3-12 installments, depending on what free time I have.



Hmm, now I'm thinking I might just split it up, as I do get more value that way in terms in channel views, number of videos etc ;-) and hopefully less complaints.
With hindsight, 6 separate reviews might have been ok, but my existing footage does not lend itself to that.
So maybe a summary one with intro, look'n'feel, a few basic tests and conclusion/winner, and another one (or two) with the rest of the testing?
How does that sound?

Not sure about having the conclusion in the 2nd part, as that doesn't make a shorter self contained video people can watch if they just want the skinny on which one to buy. Might as well be just one big video and pause it in that case.

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: migsantiago on July 10, 2010, 12:34:23 am
Hi!

With all those spare multimeters there should be some sort of sweepstakes where people can win one of them  ;D

You know, some of us haven't bought a decent multimeter  :( :'(
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on July 10, 2010, 07:07:48 am
I will only speak for the practical value of this subject ..

Dave if you plan to delay more this review .. do not publish it at all ..
In few months , new models will show up , and this review will not have, any true value.

The thousands of people , who believed your promise about this large scale review,
about two months back, they have lost their faith to you .

By cutting corners today , you loose more points as video bloger. 
Thats my feelings any way ..
 
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: doctorm on July 10, 2010, 07:35:15 am


i totally disagree with this. even if new models come out, some may not want the new models and also they new models may not be that great and we need to go back to these old models.


yes we have all been waiting for this review for 2 months, especially me bc im a stickler on getting just the right one and all, but when i saw the first review (the $50 one), i was really impressed and had no questions. this one is going to be just as good or even better now with the feedback he got.

yes he does not need to cut corners but you got to understand he has a life outside of all this. i mean he works, he has a wife, and so on. AND he didnt set a schedule. if he had siad "the review will be out this thrus" and it didnt show up thats one thing but he didnt say something like that. he just said he is trying his best to get it done. thats more than anyone can ask of him.

there i said my peace.....
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on July 10, 2010, 07:45:48 am

yes he does not need to cut corners but you got to understand he has a life outside of all this. i mean he works, he has a wife, and so on.

I had use the same line of defense , before you , against any one else in here .
And this because I have positive feelings , for this little  corner  of the Internet ,
and Dave it self ..

It can not be continued that way ... any logical excuses ... had turn to smoke ..

We all have our life too ..  
 
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: EEVblog on July 10, 2010, 02:26:31 pm
Done. It's rendering now.
Two parts, each about 50mins.
First one is overview, feel, inside inspection, and conclusion.
2nd part is all the various tests.

I haven't even watched it all yet, I'm just rendering and hope it all works out!

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: ThunderSqueak on July 10, 2010, 02:48:01 pm
YAY~!!!   :D
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: doctorm on July 10, 2010, 02:54:22 pm
how long does rendering take?
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: EEVblog on July 10, 2010, 03:29:20 pm
how long does rendering take?
Depends on the video.
For a 1 hour video it might take say 1.5hrs to render to MPEG2, then maybe 2-3 hours to render again into MP4 for Youtube, + another hour for the podcast version. Then I have to upload to Youtube which might take an hour or so, and then Youtube has to process it which might take say 8-10 hours or so at least.
Rinse and repeat for the 2nd video.
All that gets scrapped and I start again if I discover a mistake!

It's 3:30pm now. If I'm lucky I'll be able to upload the first part to Youtube before I go to bed tonight. And no doubt it will automatically pop up before it's finished processing so I'll get stupid complaints about the crap video quality!

It's not easy being a video blogger!

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: DJPhil on July 10, 2010, 04:34:04 pm
I know I speak for all of us Dave when I say thank you for all your hard work! :D

Looking forward to watching the shootout tomorrow while I do boring mindless computer work.  8)
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: MyZirconia on July 10, 2010, 06:38:29 pm
Dave
if i counted right the part 2 will be blog#100....or you going to make it #99-2? ;)
just a stupid question...

//Magnus
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: EEVblog on July 10, 2010, 11:14:47 pm
Dave
if i counted right the part 2 will be blog#100....or you going to make it #99-2? ;)
just a stupid question...

I didn't even think of that.
It's #99 in two parts, uploading to Youtube now.
Not entirely happy with the final video, and probably missed a bunch of stuff, but at least it's finally done!

I've already passed the 100 video milestone already, as some I decided not to give official blog numbers for whatever reason.

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: dengorius on July 11, 2010, 03:18:42 am
Thanks in advance man, it's a tough work.

BTW, beside the drop tests i suggest... water spillage :P
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: PeterG on July 11, 2010, 08:26:58 pm
Water spil is important i guess, but for me, it has to pass the coffee spill test....:)
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: tsmz on July 11, 2010, 09:01:31 pm
Long time lurker, first time poster. I really liked the $100 test, but found the $50 one a bit better thought-out. Okay, it's probably because there were about 6 decent meters in the $100 test and only 2 in the $50 test. A comparison PDF will be really, really helpful here.

I'll probably be hated for this, but: Given they're in the same price range 'round here, would you rather buy the Uni-T UNI-T UT61D or the Extech Extech EX330 (from the $50 shootout) for use as a general electronics meter? The Uni-T looks a bit "dodgy," whereas the EX330 seems to be reasonably well-built and had some thought put into it. It probably boils down to the question: Should I rather get a decent "low-end" meter like the EX330 or a cheap "midrange" meter like the UT61D? Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on July 11, 2010, 09:22:36 pm
People ....  this is an 100$  market of  meters ..

They do not dance , jump or do acrobatics  .. if they did ,
they would cost more.

There is no military specs , so to be  justified any drop-test or spill-test.
All that matters in this Group are,  if they do act ,  as the enclosed "specs on paper"  says.  

And if they have any special features , to be verified in action.  

By taking in to account , all the previews reviews .

Dave does a good job  in areas like :

1) Battery life - sleep mode
2) General build quality ( in - out )
3) Clear display
4) Accuracy
5) LCD speed
6) Probes response speed ... In this one, he is a master  ;D

The results will be beneficial , for the market segment that needs ,
" his first " honest DMM  ( starters ) .

Most of this meters, or all , because of the low pricing,
they will never see an Calibration Lab ,
So its important to be verified, that they operate well , when they delivered to the consumers .

At the 50$ Review , my only complain was that Dave was speaking very fast ,
and the foreigners had hard times to " keep up " in this " High speed presentation "  ;D

Personally , I am interested to see , if the UNI-T  unit ,
was an pleasurable item ,  compared with rest of the pack.  
Their pricing are extremely  completive  in my region ( EU Greece ) ,
and so far they deliver only DMM's  that qualifies as keepers .  
    
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: EEVblog on July 11, 2010, 10:39:43 pm
Long time lurker, first time poster. I really liked the $100 test, but found the $50 one a bit better thought-out. Okay, it's probably because there were about 6 decent meters in the $100 test and only 2 in the $50 test. A comparison PDF will be really, really helpful here.

I have the comparison PDF but it's not finished yet. Will have to complete and then upload.

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: ionioni2000 on July 12, 2010, 06:18:53 am
Big thumbs up, Dave, and many thanks for hard work!
Any $150 DMM shootout on horizon?
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: ThunderSqueak on July 12, 2010, 06:53:16 am
Big thumbs up, Dave, and many thanks for hard work!
Any $150 DMM shootout on horizon?

wow, if he did a shootout for meters in 50 dollar increments he will soon not have room for anything else in his lab :P  Meters coming out of his arse if he doesn't already XD 

I have an Idea!

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=850.0

</rawr>


Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on July 12, 2010, 07:00:18 am
I had download both videos , for  further inspection ..  ;D 

Its Bed time in Greece ..

Even so I watched the first five minutes..  ;)
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: PetrosA on July 12, 2010, 02:42:04 pm
I really enjoyed the reviews - excellent work Dave! I have to say I think I've seen enough of the low end stuff, though. It seems that in this price range you're basically taking a gamble whether you get a known brand or not unless you actually get a model that Dave has reviewed (which eliminates a huge portion of what's out there), and I can't say I'm surprised about the Extech. They are obviously trying to compete on price which means they have to cut corners somewhere and my past experience with their tools sent me running. There was one phrase which Dave used a lot of times that explains it - "They've obviously built this to price." Maybe this is just the consequences of globalization... there are way more consumers with a little bit of money than there are those with enough money to buy a good product, so make it priced to sell.

I was glad to see that the BK Precision scored so well, as this was actually a meter I had looked at pretty seriously, but wasn't sure about since the brand name doesn't seem too well established. My next meter purchase will be well above this price range since I've got the basics covered now - Datalogging capabilities and a digital 5000V "megger" tester are both on my list of toys to tell Santa about ;) And if Santa's feeling really generous, I'm still dreaming of a Gossen and some software to go with it :)
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: johnboxall on July 12, 2010, 04:59:05 pm


yes he does not need to cut corners but you got to understand he has a life outside of all this. i mean he works, he has a wife, and so on. AND he didnt set a schedule. if he had siad "the review will be out this thrus" and it didnt show up thats one thing but he didnt say something like that. he just said he is trying his best to get it done. thats more than anyone can ask of him.

there i said my peace.....
Absolutely. Without trying to sound like a sycophant Dave uses a lot of personal time making these shootout videos, no matter which way they are done not everyone will be happy. I heard a good saying the other day: "If someone you don't know criticises you - you have become famous". So thanks for taking the effort Dave.

Looking forward to what happens with the thermal chamber :)
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: TheWelly888 on July 13, 2010, 12:39:52 am
I've just watched both reviews and was disconcerted at the conclusion at the end of part 1! Having read this thread afterwards, I now understand!

I have to take you to task on giving the thumbs up to the model that works from supply voltage as low as 3.9volts. Yes, you did show that the ohmeter reading is still accurate at that supply but what about voltage measurement?? Clearly at such a low supply level, any reference and amplification can become inaccurate. Unless, of course, there is an boost SMP circuit within the device!

Once at work I was routinely testing the energy output of a cardiac defibrillator using an energy meter and ended up with readings much higher than they should be!! First thing I had to do was to remove that defib from the hospital ward in case something was wrong with it, then I tested it in the workshop and I could not find anything wrong with it, ie energy ouputs are within spec! To cut a long story short, I realised that the energy meter's internal re-chargeable battery voltage was getting low and even though the battery low voltage was not being indicated, the readings accuracy drifted out of spec quite quickly!
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: EEVblog on July 13, 2010, 07:59:28 am
I have to take you to task on giving the thumbs up to the model that works from supply voltage as low as 3.9volts. Yes, you did show that the ohmeter reading is still accurate at that supply but what about voltage measurement?? Clearly at such a low supply level, any reference and amplification can become inaccurate. Unless, of course, there is an boost SMP circuit within the device!

Yes, it still worked on voltage too.
Many meters run off just two AA's (see the $50 shootout), so it's not unusual that a meter can work down to that level. They probably use a chipset that is capable of that, where the other meters don't.

Dave.
Title: Re: Poll: Dave's Post about doing the conclusion of $100 multimeter shootout
Post by: TheWelly888 on July 13, 2010, 08:08:47 pm
^^^
I stand corrected, Dave. You could have shown the voltage reading on the video!

I've just realised, you were powering the meter from your bench psu with a very low supply resistance, a PP3 at such a state of discharge will have quite a high internal resistance which might affect the ohmeter current supply?

I once had a cheapy chinese  digital multimeter which gave false voltage readings when the battery approached the end of life ( the battery was the dreaded GP one!! ) which was why I questioned your thumbs up.

The voltage level at which one should declare a primary battery as used up is debatable - worth another thread? Started one here: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=861.0 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=861.0)