EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: dunkemhigh on October 25, 2015, 06:12:19 am

Title: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 25, 2015, 06:12:19 am
Why is there no option to not show one being online browsing topics? Sometimes (yes, most times) I don't want to be stalked with people knowing where I am and what I am looking at. Some people are OK with this lack of privacy, I am not.

Any chance of turning enabling that option, please?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: German_EE on October 25, 2015, 06:18:25 am
Given that nobody knows who 'dunkemhigh' is I suspect that you will be pretty safe. After all, I could be a retired tax accountant from Berlin or a famous politician with some geeky hobbies, who knows? If you DO find that you're being stalked here on the board then you can either get the moderators involved or change your username.

Anyway, with one or two exceptions (users who make a fool of themselves) we're all friends here.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: BravoV on October 25, 2015, 06:28:42 am
.... we're all friends here.

+1  :-+
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: c4757p on October 25, 2015, 06:30:39 am
Log out and browse, Einstein ;)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 25, 2015, 06:38:04 am
Do like I did;
Make up a completely factitious person, nobody has the slightest idea who I really am.
The more fake information you put out the more you can hide who you really are.

Truth be told;
I am a former executive of a large test equipment manufacturer who is running for president of the United States. Sure I made some mistakes but that was in my pre-menopausal life, now that my hormonal status has stabilized, and I don't fire people due to extreme PMS I am more than capable. ;)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: SeanB on October 25, 2015, 06:57:27 am
Log out and browse, Einstein ;)

+1 for that, though I do not bother at all about that.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 25, 2015, 07:16:49 am
Log out and browse, Einstein ;)

The only reason I log in is so the system recognizes what I've read and what I haven't. Indeed, I make a special case for EEVBlog to retain cookies, as opposed to session only, to enable this. If I had to browse ignognito and re-read 56 pages of rubbish to get to where I last was on many threads, I wouldn't bother.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 25, 2015, 07:25:08 am
Quote
Given that nobody knows who 'dunkemhigh' is

Many people do know - one can't interact with other real people without real info being exchanged. How is one to gain any trust if you can never refer to any real-world thing which might give your ID away?

Even if that weren't the case, at some point an online persona is an actual person, sometimes more so than the real person behind the ID.

Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Monkeh on October 25, 2015, 07:46:40 am
How delightfully paranoid.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: PA0PBZ on October 25, 2015, 07:47:05 am
I really fail to see your problem. So someone can see what topic you are reading when they are reading the same? It's about electronics, not about weird fetish stuff, and even if it was they have to read the same topic to see your name...
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Stupid Beard on October 25, 2015, 08:02:08 am
Log out and browse, Einstein ;)

The only reason I log in is so the system recognizes what I've read and what I haven't. Indeed, I make a special case for EEVBlog to retain cookies, as opposed to session only, to enable this. If I had to browse ignognito and re-read 56 pages of rubbish to get to where I last was on many threads, I wouldn't bother.

I have my browser delete all cookies on exit. I (obviously) have to login every time I come here, but unread posts works fine once logged in with no special cookie settings.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Neganur on October 25, 2015, 08:10:25 am
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Monkeh on October 25, 2015, 08:11:32 am
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/)

Oh look, Tapatalk using their paying customers for advertising again.

That company has no shame.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: MAS3 on October 25, 2015, 08:12:25 am
Do like I did;

I know why you told her/him to do that.
You want as many people as possible to be unknown.
Because right now, you know you are the only one who no one knows, so you can be easily identified that way.
You're serving yourself by attempting to have as many people act that way, but at least this one.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: hamdi.tn on October 25, 2015, 08:18:54 am
i guess you and your boss are on the blog on work time  :-DD
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 25, 2015, 09:45:25 am
Do like I did;

I know why you told her/him to do that.
You want as many people as possible to be unknown.
Because right now, you know you are the only one who no one knows, so you can be easily identified that way.
You're serving yourself by attempting to have as many people act that way, but at least this one.
:)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 25, 2015, 12:12:20 pm
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/)

Holy shit.

Does Dave get a kickback from TT (or, indeed, anywhere by leaving out this privacy option which other boards enable)?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: TerminalJack505 on October 25, 2015, 12:54:17 pm
Why is there no option to not show one being online browsing topics? Sometimes (yes, most times) I don't want to be stalked with people knowing where I am and what I am looking at. Some people are OK with this lack of privacy, I am not.

Any chance of turning enabling that option, please?

I thought there was an option to be "hidden" that did what you are asking.  Did this get removed?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 25, 2015, 01:03:22 pm
Quote
I thought there was an option to be "hidden" that did what you are asking.  Did this get removed?

That is exactly the option I was looking for, but couldn't find it anywhere. If you can find it, I'd appreciate your telling me where it is!

I know you know, but for those that don't, this doesn't affect the count of people reading a topic. The display just says "Bill, Ben, 4 guests, 2 hidden".
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Andy Watson on October 25, 2015, 01:09:26 pm
If it bothers you that much why not change your user name to "Guest", or are you trying to invoke the Streisand effect?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: TerminalJack505 on October 25, 2015, 01:12:34 pm
Quote
I thought there was an option to be "hidden" that did what you are asking.  Did this get removed?

That is exactly the option I was looking for, but couldn't find it anywhere. If you can find it, I'd appreciate your telling me where it is!

I know you know, but for those that don't, this doesn't affect the count of people reading a topic. The display just says "Bill, Ben, 4 guests, 2 hidden".

After making my post I went looking for such an option but didn't find one.  I'm pretty sure it was available to ordinary users at one time.  Or maybe I just imagined it.  :-//
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 25, 2015, 01:44:22 pm
.... we're all friends here.

+1  :-+

+1 again, we don't judge.  :-+



http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/)

Holy shit.

Does Dave get a kickback from TT (or, indeed, anywhere by leaving out this privacy option which other boards enable)?

Yeah, it's pretty scary. Especially when it's on the front page of the forum and even guests can see it.



I have a vague recollection this "hidden" option was removed. But I can't seem to find the thread where it was discussed. (if it was discussed)
Someone will post a link if it exists. Someone is the most helpful person.

edit:
I think this might have been the thread I was thinking of. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/%28-1-hidden%29/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/%28-1-hidden%29/)
So it's an option reserved for moderators/bots...
And isn't the 'Someone' a member (as in the name)?  :-DD


EDIT: http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=265224.0 (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=265224.0)
Quote
Are you the only admin?  Does your name show up in the online list.  If not go to your profile under account related settings and make sure "Show others your online status?" is checked.

Also just in case go to admin, features and options and make sure the box "Allow non-administrators to hide their online status?" is not checked.

Hope this helps,
Chris
So it's configurable by the admins (Dave?)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Towger on October 25, 2015, 02:22:43 pm
what has the Who's online list got to do with Tapatalk?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Monkeh on October 25, 2015, 02:26:26 pm
what has the Who's online list got to do with Tapatalk?

They make a big song and dance out of pointing out Tapatalk users like yourself.

Or as I like to call them, paying advertisers.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 25, 2015, 11:02:15 pm
Quote
I think this might have been the thread I was thinking of. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/%28-1-hidden%29/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/%28-1-hidden%29/)

Ah! So it was there (and I would have ticked it when I registered as a matter of course). Doesn't explain why it was removed, though.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 25, 2015, 11:10:25 pm
Quote
If it bothers you that much why not...

I suspect you haven't been introduced to some of the deranged and malicious elements of humankind who populate the interwebs. Even people who are quite meek and normal in real life can turn into serious fuckwits on forums - there are plenty of examples.

If you do get on the wrong end of their stick you'll find that the ability to stalk, to know exactly what you're doing and where you're doing it, is a delicious tool for them.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 25, 2015, 11:12:31 pm
The whole concept of privacy on the Internet is an oxymoron From the moment you turn on your computer or your smart phone and become connected who you are is known by everyone from your ISP to a dozen or more ad servers at any given time.

Why do you think some of us who go back to before the publicly available Internet call it
The Worldwide Wiretap.
If privacy is that important to you, perhaps a life in the woods, no driver license, credit cards, no phone of any kind and, with cash only to make transactions with is more your style.

Even using onion routers; there is no way to insure privacy.
Life comes with a measure of risk, if it is to be fully experienced.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 25, 2015, 11:15:01 pm
Quote
If it bothers you that much why not...

I suspect you haven't been introduced to some of the deranged and malicious elements of humankind who populate the interwebs. Even people who are quite meek and normal in real life can turn into serious fuckwits on forums - there are plenty of examples.

If you do get on the wrong end of their stick you'll find that the ability to stalk, to know exactly what you're doing and where you're doing it, is a delicious tool for them.

Tell me about it.
I bear the scars from such sociopaths and psychopaths, in the end if they really want to find you they can, at least the smarter of them....
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 03:58:40 am
No need to help them along, though.

But one thing I haven't yet mentioned is that it is just common courtesy. I was brought up to respect other people's privacy, so I wouldn't dream, for instance, of asking you how much you earn or watching you take a dump. Nowadays, youth seems to be much more uncouth and apparently have no respect and few morals. Plus Google will sell their souls for them (and retain the dosh, of course).

However, even with people of my generation who wouldn't be caught dead looking over your shoulder to see what you're typing or who you're calling, if they think no-one will see them they'll do it anyway. Human nature or something.

Who was it that went on about the single sign-on Google+ and how it was ruining comments on his videos? I'm sure there's irony involved in that.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: mikerj on October 26, 2015, 04:07:05 am
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/)

Holy shit.

Does Dave get a kickback from TT (or, indeed, anywhere by leaving out this privacy option which other boards enable)?

Holy shit!  Who gives a toss?  Suggest you slacken off your tin foil hat.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 26, 2015, 04:10:32 am
No need to help them along, though.

But one thing I haven't yet mentioned is that it is just common courtesy. I was brought up to respect other people's privacy, so I wouldn't dream, for instance, of asking you how much you earn or watching you take a dump. Nowadays, youth seems to be much more uncouth and apparently have no respect and few morals. Plus Google will sell their souls for them (and retain the dosh, of course).

However, even with people of my generation who wouldn't be caught dead looking over your shoulder to see what you're typing or who you're calling, if they think no-one will see them they'll do it anyway. Human nature or something.

Who was it that went on about the single sign-on Google+ and how it was ruining comments on his videos? I'm sure there's irony involved in that.

I agree with you regarding this issue.
Keep in mind we are here on the Internet along with many other cultures that feel it is fine to pry into one's private business and lie about everything from the color of the sky to the condition of what they are selling. Some countries if you don't lie cheat or pry into everyone's business you will be considered the oddball.

The United states is sinking to this level, a nation of liars, cheaters and nosy people.
When the rights of the individual, and corruption accompanied by lawlessness is the order of the day, the country is already lost.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 04:47:10 am
Quote
Who gives a toss?

Plainly not you, so why bother to comment? But your reply is illustrative of this and similar problems:

* I want the option, then people can use it or not as they like.

* You want to ban anyone else from  not being exactly like you, and prevent them from exercising choice, even when it doesn't affect you and doesn't bother you.



Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Delta on October 26, 2015, 06:29:36 am
Maybe I am somewhat naive, but what possible bad consequences can there be to someone knowing you are browsing the test equipment section of an electronics forum?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 26, 2015, 06:33:14 am
Maybe I am somewhat naive, but what possible bad consequences can their be to someone knowing you are browsing the test equipment section of an electronics forum?

I suppose if the OP was Amish there could be fallout..
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 07:46:23 am
Quote
what possible bad consequences can there be

Doesn't need to be any, IMO - the simple fact that I don't want to have my private actions broadcast for public consumption should be enough.

Nevertheless, wouldn't it be cool to know the CEO of Siglent had spent 4 hours reading that topic and not said anything at all in there. Thing of the implications the more rabid in that topic could make out of that.

Would you mind if the neighbourhood watch chap followed you with a camera as you leave your house, broadcasting to all the other residents  all your actions in the road, the way you put out your rubbish, which garden you tip your cat's mess into, etc. You wouldn't stand for that, would you? Yet the same thing electronically is fine.

Plus, big privacy or security transgressions don't happen in a single jump. They ratchet up, so you get used to a slight transgression that isn't really that bad, and then it's a bit more and a bit more, and before you know it it's quite normal for what would have been a huge problem previously. Don't believe me? Look at the shitstorm that Phorm created, yet even worse stuff is the norm now. We are oblivious and happy that the likes of Google mine our data and know more about us than our partners do. It is not that long ago that the bloody Stasi had wet dreams about being able to do a fraction of what Google achieves, you know. What happened to make it alright? People thinking "How bad could this very minor thing actually be" and the ratchet effect doing the rest, is what.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 08:03:38 am
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/)
Holy shit.
Does Dave get a kickback from TT (or, indeed, anywhere by leaving out this privacy option which other boards enable)?

Huh? I don't see the problem?
The Who page is a standard part of SMF
Why would I get some "kickback" from that page?  :-//
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 08:06:04 am
Go in and modify your profile settings, there is an option called "Show others my online status"
I think that does what you want.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Monkeh on October 26, 2015, 08:13:40 am
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/)
Holy shit.
Does Dave get a kickback from TT (or, indeed, anywhere by leaving out this privacy option which other boards enable)?

Huh? I don't see the problem?
The Who page is a standard part of SMF
Why would I get some "kickback" from that page?  :-//

Some are sick and tired of pushy companies who use their paying customers to advertise for them.

Go in and modify your profile settings, there is an option called "Show others my online status"
I think that does what you want.

No.. there isn't. That's the problem.

Don't use privileged accounts to check for this stuff.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: c4757p on October 26, 2015, 08:26:20 am
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/who/)
Holy shit.
Does Dave get a kickback from TT (or, indeed, anywhere by leaving out this privacy option which other boards enable)?

Huh? I don't see the problem?
The Who page is a standard part of SMF
Why would I get some "kickback" from that page?  :-//

Some are sick and tired of pushy companies who use their paying customers to advertise for them.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you getting a secret second version of that page that just flashes advertisements in your face?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 08:36:06 am
Go in and modify your profile settings, there is an option called "Show others my online status"
I think that does what you want.

As Monkeh says, that option doesn't appear for us mere mortals. It used to, now it doesn't.

Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: hamdi.tn on October 26, 2015, 08:41:01 am
it's not an option that i need but yap ... it's not there  ::)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 26, 2015, 10:39:36 am
It isn't there, as I said in my last post:

Quote
go to admin, features and options and make sure the box "Allow non-administrators to hide their online status?" is checked.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 10:45:23 am
It isn't there, as I said in my last post:
Quote
go to admin, features and options and make sure the box "Allow non-administrators to hide their online status?" is checked.

OK, it's not checked.
But now I'm in two minds whether or not to enable this.
I like that the forum displays who's online, it shows that the forum has active participants.
What is everyone goes and disables it?, bam, does the forum then show that no one is viewing anything?
Would the number of users online data suddenly vanish" or drop?
And to my knowledge no one has ever complained about it before.
And people have privacy in the fact that no one is forcing them to use their real name or real contact details on this forum.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Monkeh on October 26, 2015, 10:46:13 am
It isn't there, as I said in my last post:
Quote
go to admin, features and options and make sure the box "Allow non-administrators to hide their online status?" is checked.

OK, it's not checked.
But now I'm in two minds whether or not to enable this.
I like that the forum displays who's online, it shows that the forum has active participants.
What is everyone goes and disables it?, bam, does the forum then show that no one is viewing anything?
And to my knowledge no one has ever complained about it before.

It will show everyone as 'hidden'.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 11:09:27 am
Quote
I like that the forum displays who's online, it shows that the forum has active participants.
What is everyone goes and disables it?, bam, does the forum then show that no one is viewing anything?

It would show 176 hidden + 23 guests
It's the same as now, you just don't get the user names for those that have it ticked (and, from this thread, you can believe most won't have it ticked, or they are hypocrites).
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 11:26:20 am
It would show 176 hidden + 23 guests
It's the same as now, you just don't get the user names for those that have it ticked (and, from this thread, you can believe most won't have it ticked, or they are hypocrites).

Ok, it's now enabled. We'll see how it goes.
I think it will look crappy though if everyone goes and enables it and the entire forum userbase is "hidden". I don't like that at all, very impersonal and non-inviting to new people.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: c4757p on October 26, 2015, 11:29:27 am
Most people won't enable it. Consider that most people abandoned begging you to implement SSL as well, despite the fact that a password is exchanged...

:rant:
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 26, 2015, 11:30:56 am
I suppose everyone has the right to traverse the Internet wearing a burka if they wish.
The Internet is a public space.

Wearing a bag over one's head only attracts attention.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 11:31:33 am
Yeah, it's pretty scary. Especially when it's on the front page of the forum and even guests can see it.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?  :-//
What can guests see?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: vk6zgo on October 26, 2015, 11:35:25 am
Do like I did;
Make up a completely factitious person, nobody has the slightest idea who I really am.
The more fake information you put out the more you can hide who you really are.

Truth be told;
I am a former executive of a large test equipment manufacturer who is running for president of the United States. Sure I made some mistakes but that was in my pre-menopausal life, now that my hormonal status has stabilized, and I don't fire people due to extreme PMS I am more than capable. ;)

Sue,they can find out exactly who you & I are by checking our Amateur Radio callsigns.

I agree,though,they don't know our back stories.
I could be (I wish) a multimillionaire---but I guess some of my comments on this & other forums has made that bit a pretty hard sell! ;D
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Psi on October 26, 2015, 11:35:26 am
Yeah, it's pretty scary. Especially when it's on the front page of the forum and even guests can see it.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?  :-//
What can guests see?

I think he means they can see the list of users who are currently browsing the forum.
It's at the very bottom of the forum home page under "Users Online"

Personally i don't see what the fuss is about.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: c4757p on October 26, 2015, 11:37:29 am
Here, everybody just take a piece, and everything will be alright.

(http://www.tipsfromtown.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/31680b.jpg)

Don't be greedy now, one square sheet per person.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 26, 2015, 12:06:47 pm
Premium quality!!  :-+ :-+
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 12:10:13 pm
I think he means they can see the list of users who are currently browsing the forum.
It's at the very bottom of the forum home page under "Users Online"
Personally i don't see what the fuss is about.

That's been there since day one.
And what's it got to do with Tapatalk?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: ovnr on October 26, 2015, 12:13:16 pm
I do believe some of the confusion earlier regarding Tapatalk boils down to this:

The forum includes /forum/mobiquo/tapatalkdetect.js, because Dave/an admin has installed the Tapatalk plugin. However, this JS file pops a dialog on phones going "This forum is Android [or iPhone, or whatever] Native! Click OK to learn more about Tapatalk for Android.". It's really fucking stupid, but then it's tapatalk.

It (attempts to) set a cookie lasting 1k days, but if it gets deleted or fails, it'll ask again. And again. If you're in incognito mode it'll ask all day long.


I'd strongly suggest either editing the theme to remove the reference, or more easily, replacing /forum/mobiquo/tapatalkdetect.js with an empty file. It is not required for tapatalk operation, and is just a glorified advertisement for that piece of shit software.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Monkeh on October 26, 2015, 12:50:40 pm
And what's it got to do with Tapatalk?

Absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 05:23:48 pm
Quote
Ok, it's now enabled. We'll see how it goes.

Thank you.

Bear in mind that the IDs of who are browsing should be meaningless - you could have a milllion browsers and a dead board. What counts is the number posting, and for that surely you want a list of what topics are active and when.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 05:29:26 pm
Yeah, it's pretty scary. Especially when it's on the front page of the forum and even guests can see it.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?  :-//
What can guests see?

The screencap below shows this. It is constantly updated in real time, and something I would have expected to be available to admins but not users.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 05:33:19 pm
Quote
userbase is "hidden". I don't like that at all, very impersonal

Shouldn't be hard to change that to 'other' or whatever word/phrase you prefer. I would bet that no-one notices this stuff except for those that are interested in specific people, or are just nosey buggers who should have better things to be doing.

It is one thing to be inviting, another for your users to feel like bait.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 06:11:39 pm
Bear in mind that the IDs of who are browsing should be meaningless - you could have a milllion browsers and a dead board. What counts is the number posting

No, I like the names, I think it's important for a sense of community.
For the record I don't like "hidden" showing up, I can see it now if I log out (Admin always shows me who's who).
Don't be surprised if I disable this again.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 06:12:19 pm
Doesn't Tapatalk have privacy concerns. Isn't that the subject of this thread? It seems to me to be a far bigger concern than having a username publicly visible.

No, this topic has nothing to do with Tapatalk.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 06:13:46 pm
It is one thing to be inviting, another for your users to feel like bait.

In the 5+ years running this forum, IIRC you are the only one who has complained about this.
In fact someone pointed to thread some people who wanted to know what the "hidden" meant. It sounds dodgy.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: pickle9000 on October 26, 2015, 06:19:16 pm
I prefer to see who's lurking.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Muttley Snickers on October 26, 2015, 06:44:33 pm
I've just returned from being incognito (hidden) on the forum, It was an experiment to see what it's all about, for me it was no different than being signed out except that I could still post, someone hidden here is basically a signed in guest the only difference being that they can post and do other stuff as regular members do, the less the better I think.

Also I have a super fantastic forum name and an exceptional quality avatar to go with it so hiding it would be well....unsightly.

Personally I tend to read the forum more often signed out and generally at night on the TV which bumps me off regularly anyway and only sign in if I am contributing  :palm:  well adding stuff then, others have different needs to mine and overall I think it works well for my needs as is, if others have a requirement to become incognito then they have the option of becoming a supporter of the forum.

Like most things in life it's a paid subscription or an earned privilege as far as I am aware.



In regards to privacy on the forum I don' really have any concerns but I do keep regular tabs on the who's online list for no other reason than to see what the current popular topics are and then proceed, what I don't particularly like are zero post members running around with nothing better to do than look at and I presume read everyone else's profiles, I wont name names and have pointed this out to a moderator in the past, don't believe me then keep tabs on the list yourselves.

Members that have absolutely nothing to contribute should be purged on a regular basis, I don't even know why they are here.






Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 07:08:58 pm
Quote
It sounds dodgy.

Why should it? It says "Show others my online status". That's not "Hide me from an admin", it's the same class as "Allow users to email me" - something that one may not want to enable.

It is only dodgy if you want to know what Bill Bloggs specifically is doing right at this moment, because it won't let you snoop. That's basically what this boils down to: you prefer to allow "guests" to snoop on registered users, but don't let those users (who to the effort to actively participate in your forum) decline to be snooped upon. A great benefit of being registered, eh? Why not turn the tables and show the IP addresses of all those guests as a nice friendly gesture to the rest of us? Strictly speaking, there is no law to say you mustn't - an IP address is public anyway. But watch your userbase shrink if you try pulling that one...
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 07:35:49 pm
Quote
It sounds dodgy.
Why should it?

Because someone who comes across this website sees "XX Hidden users" instead of potentially more friendly usernames.

Also ask others who have mentioned it before, and wondered WTF is this "hidden" thing.

Quote
It says "Show others my online status".

No, i says this forum looks dodgy because it has a mix of "hidden" users and identifiable users.

Quote
it's the same class as "Allow users to email me" - something that one may not want to enable.

No, it's not the same. Because people understand if someone doesn't want to put their email address.

Quote
It is only dodgy if you want to know what Bill Bloggs specifically is doing right at this moment, because it won't let you snoop. That's basically what this boils down to: you prefer to allow "guests" to snoop on registered users, but don't let those users (who to the effort to actively participate in your forum) decline to be snooped upon.

As others have asked, why do you care.
Again, in 5+ years of running this forum with 10,000+ active users, IIRC you are the only one who has complained about this "privacy" issue. The only one. That says something.

Quote
Why not turn the tables and show the IP addresses of all those guests as a nice friendly gesture to the rest of us?

What a ridiculous suggestion and comparison, and you know it. You are the one complaining about privacy.
IP addresses are serious business, displaying were you are potentially looking in the forum using your anonymous (if you want it to be) account are like chalk and cheese in the privacy world.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 26, 2015, 08:30:28 pm
It is one thing to be inviting, another for your users to feel like bait.

In the 5+ years running this forum, IIRC you are the only one who has complained about this.
In fact someone pointed to thread some people who wanted to know what the "hidden" meant. It sounds dodgy.


Not trying to piss anyone off, but if no-one cares about it, then no-one will use it.  ;)

But seriously, I don't get why someone would need to use this 'hidden' function. It does sound a little dodgy...
(and I really don't like the IP suggestion, sorry dunkemhigh)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 08:39:24 pm
Quote
As others have asked, why do you care.

Because it is basic courtesy.

Ask those other users, Mr FakeName and Mr NoProfile, why they aren't showing their details.

Because in an argument dickwads are perfectly capable of using "Ha ha you spent 20 mins on the XXX topic" and similar juvenile shit.

Because I am actually shocked (really) that this is considered not just acceptable but desirable:

(http://i.imgur.com/ANtLh9B.jpg)

I mean, WTF? What is the justification for that? What good is it doing anybody else?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 26, 2015, 08:43:47 pm
Quote
What a ridiculous suggestion and comparison, and you know it.

It is only ridiculous because you don't see the snooping as a breach of privacy. And, yes, that does say an awful. Do you look over peoples shoulder when they write text message on their phone? No, you wouldn't, so why do you think it is acceptable to not just allow it here but provide the mechanism to do it?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 08:46:27 pm
Quote
As others have asked, why do you care.
Because it is basic courtesy.

But the option doesn't come for free, it's not without downside of how the forum appears to others as I've explained.

Quote
Because in an argument dickwads are perfectly capable of using "Ha ha you spent 20 mins on the XXX topic" and similar juvenile shit.

Can't say I've seen someone mention that on this forum.

Quote
Because I am actually shocked (really) that this is considered not just acceptable but desirable:
(http://i.imgur.com/ANtLh9B.jpg)
I mean, WTF? What is the justification for that? What good is it doing anybody else?

It's a standard part of a SMF installation, I bet hardly anyone looks at that page. Many wouldn't even know it exists.

On the other hand, to me this is very useful:
(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/privacy/?action=dlattach;attach=178438;image)
It shows me that you are (potentially) this watching this thread and that you might reply before I head to bed, so I might stick around for bit and see if you reply.
To me that totally trumps any "privacy" issues that only one person has complained about in 5+ years.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Muttley Snickers on October 26, 2015, 09:02:45 pm
I use this list continuously and always have as it gives a better indication of whether somebody is replying to a post or sending me a message, I don't sit on a thread waiting for a reply instead I have the list open and refreshed to see if a reply is imminent.

Also see my last post above about concerns.

 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/privacy/?action=dlattach;attach=178440;image)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 26, 2015, 09:17:36 pm
Because in an argument dickwads are perfectly capable of using "Ha ha you spent 20 mins on the XXX topic" and similar juvenile shit.

Well ha ha you just watched me spending 20 mins on the XXX topic.  :-DD

It's a standard part of a SMF installation, I bet hardly anyone looks at that page. Many wouldn't even know it exists.

On the other hand, to me this is very useful:
(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/privacy/?action=dlattach;attach=178438;image)
It shows me that you are (potentially) this watching this thread and that you might reply before I head to bed, so I might stick around for bit and see if you reply.
To me that totally trumps any "privacy" issues that only one person has complained about in 5+ years.

Not only SMF installations, take a look at the MacRumors forum (I know, I know, but it's not SMF), which I was at before I started harassing this one (hopefully not lol).
They also have a page that shows what people (even bots!) are doing at any one time. And, to the limited extent of my knowledge, no-one has complained about it  ;)
They also do have a hidden users option, but it looks like only about 20 members are even using it.  :-//
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 09:18:45 pm
Members that have absolutely nothing to contribute should be purged on a regular basis, I don't even know why they are here.

I do that, but not-so-regularly.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: MikeW on October 26, 2015, 09:30:05 pm
Members that have absolutely nothing to contribute should be purged on a regular basis, I don't even know why they are here.

I do that, but not-so-regularly.

What's the criteria for that then?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 26, 2015, 09:31:25 pm
Members that have absolutely nothing to contribute should be purged on a regular basis, I don't even know why they are here.

I do that, but not-so-regularly.

What's the criteria for that then?

Probably just the zeroposters.

Thread: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/zero-posters-purged/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/zero-posters-purged/)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: MikeW on October 26, 2015, 09:54:10 pm
Members that have absolutely nothing to contribute should be purged on a regular basis, I don't even know why they are here.

I do that, but not-so-regularly.

What's the criteria for that then?

Probably just the zeroposters.

Thread: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/zero-posters-purged/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/zero-posters-purged/)

Oh I see, I thought it could have possibly meant people who don't contribute anything 'useful' at all.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: BravoV on October 26, 2015, 10:42:19 pm
Damn ... 6 pages.  :palm:

Just a suggestion Dave, make up your mind, set the forum's setting as "you want", and close this thread.

Imho, you're being exploited here, cause you're doubting this matter too long (cmiiw), why don't you just take the decision now, make it happen and then move on.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 10:47:00 pm
Members that have absolutely nothing to contribute should be purged on a regular basis, I don't even know why they are here.
I do that, but not-so-regularly.
What's the criteria for that then?

If you have zero posts and have been a member for more than a month you are goneski.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 10:48:10 pm
Damn ... 6 pages.  :palm:
Just a suggestion Dave, make up your mind, set the forum's setting as "you want", and close this thread.
Imho, you're being exploited here, cause you're doubting this matter too long (cmiiw), why don't you just take the decision now, make it happen and then move on.

Yep, decision made, I'm disabling the hidden option. I see no compelling reason to keep it enabled. Back to business as usual.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dr.diesel on October 26, 2015, 10:55:14 pm


Yep, decision made, I'm disabling the hidden option. I see no compelling reason to keep it enabled. Back to business as usual.

Does this unhide users that previously had this option checked?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Muttley Snickers on October 26, 2015, 11:14:09 pm
There are currently only two hidden but it could easily have gotten out of hand.

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/privacy/?action=dlattach;attach=178458;image)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 11:19:06 pm
Does this unhide users that previously had this option checked?

I don't know for sure, but I presume it does.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 11:21:56 pm
There are currently only two hidden but it could easily have gotten out of hand.
(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/privacy/?action=dlattach;attach=178458;image)

WTF?
Is that real or a photshopped joke?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 26, 2015, 11:23:05 pm
Does this unhide users that previously had this option checked?

I don't know for sure, but I presume it does.

Ah, seems not:
Quote
With this option enabled all members will be able to hide their online status from other users (except administrators). If disabled only users who can moderate the forum can hide their presence. Note that disabling this option will not change any existing member's status - it just stops them from hiding themselves in the future.
I'll have to find them and un-hide.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: han on October 26, 2015, 11:29:32 pm
Privacy is about: "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. [/size]Give him a mask, and he will tell you[/color][/b][/color][/size] the truth." - Oscar Wilde quotes from BrainyQuote.com[/color]
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Delta on October 26, 2015, 11:39:43 pm
Dunkem, seriously mate, if you really think that someone seeing a pseudonym browsing a forum is at all comparable with someone following you down the street with a camera, then you have some major issues.

Get that tinfoil hat off, relax, and enjoy life!
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: c4757p on October 27, 2015, 09:11:49 am
:-+ wilfred

Why delete zeros? Maybe I just don't have enough forum experience - the vast majority of IRC channels don't kick out lurkers, I certainly wouldn't kick any out of #eevblog, that's just weird and rude. Not everybody talks, some just want to listen, and having the forum track what you've read could be nice. I really don't understand what good it does to delete them.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 27, 2015, 09:29:57 am
Personally, I like the clean stats.  :-+ Looking at the members page, it looks like there's 5000 zeroposters, and I'm guessing at least 50% aren't actually doing anything.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: c4757p on October 27, 2015, 09:32:39 am
But what purpose do the clean stats serve?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dr.diesel on October 27, 2015, 09:37:37 am
An occasional cleanout does free up potentially desirable usernames.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 27, 2015, 10:28:04 am
There are a number of aggregators that gather up posts from forums on various subjects.
For the amateur radio community when we search for a given topic DX Zone comes up and they provide links to sites like the ARRL forums and E-ham, among others.

I'll bet some of Dave's zombie members are from sites similar to the one I cited above.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 27, 2015, 11:15:15 am
Didn't mean to start a fight (lol), just voicing my opinion.  ;)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 27, 2015, 11:22:18 am
Is this the same thread that is also not about Tapatalk?

I answered a question. Why get so up-tight?
Perhaps I shouldn't respond to you then?

Quote
Why are you so motivated to keep the stats tidy? Lab, no. Stats, yes.
Why would you care?

Why do you care about my lab?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 27, 2015, 11:25:47 am
But what purpose do the clean stats serve?

I like having genuine member stats of people who contributed.
It's looks great if the forum has 50,000 members, but if 40,000 have never made a post, those numbers are just bogus.
And before you say "well, they might be active searches". No, I also set my criteria to zero posts and inactive for the last month or two. And it's obvious most of them are just spam accounts that got through the filters.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 27, 2015, 11:27:34 am
Personally, I like the clean stats.  :-+ Looking at the members page, it looks like there's 5000 zeroposters, and I'm guessing at least 50% aren't actually doing anything.

Most of them are spam accounts that slipped through the net.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 27, 2015, 11:29:27 am
BTW, I don't delete them all, I actually go to the effort to scan the name and emails, and any that sound like genuine user I usually keep.
It is obvious when they are spam account and names as most of them are, I'd estimate >95%
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Wilksey on October 27, 2015, 01:43:34 pm
I am a bit perplexed how much this post has gotten out of hand, 7 pages!

I understand the need for privacy, real name, address, IP address, any other identifying credentials that you do not want others to see, email address for example, but not hiding who is looking at what post!

The way I see it there are 3 options:
1. Log out and view as guest.
2. Set up a "fake" profile.
3. Just get on with it like the other 'n' number of subscribers / members.

Most of us choose option 3 without even thinking about it.

And why on earth would someone "make fun" for want of a better phrase, of you for looking at a post for 20 minutes?!  Has this ever happened? Those argument straws need a good clutching again I think!

Privacy and Paranoia, both start with a 'P' but the similarity ends there, your "request" is more paranoia than privacy "concern" I am afraid.

As for "Tapatalk" just enable desktop mode on the phone/tablet browser, usually works around those "we have an app for this" popups.

Most of this functionality is build into the forum engine, and most are default or close to default installation options.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 27, 2015, 01:57:15 pm
And why on earth would someone "make fun" for want of a better phrase, of you for looking at a post for 20 minutes?!  Has this ever happened? Those argument straws need a good clutching again I think!

To my knowledge it has never happened.
And you can't tell if someone is actually watching, or that's just the page they last left the browser tab open at. I do that all the time, the machine could left on all night rendering or whatever.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Wilksey on October 27, 2015, 02:02:58 pm
Exactly!
I have left several pages open whilst at work, come back to them a few hours later, oops, left the browser open, refresh see what's been going on!  Doesn't mean i've been looking at a thread on a Rigol and a page on what best WiFi chip to use for 3 hours...
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Bud on October 27, 2015, 02:08:21 pm
As for "Tapatalk" just enable desktop mode on the phone/tablet browser, usually works around those "we have an app for this" popups.

This works on my iPhone Safari browser, showing up only for couple times after browser restart, but I recall it did not work for a Samsung Android phone I tried, it kept popping up in desktop mode. It was very annoying.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: mikerj on October 27, 2015, 08:02:09 pm
* You want to ban anyone else from  not being exactly like you, and prevent them from exercising choice, even when it doesn't affect you and doesn't bother you.

I don't want to ban anyone, I'm just surprised at the level of paranoia you are displaying.  I appreciate a reasonable level of privacy, and I don't like the invasive antics of Google, Microsoft etc. but getting panicky because your username is in a "logged in" list on a random forum isn't normal or healthy.  Professional help might be a better solution.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 27, 2015, 11:35:34 pm
May I suggest to the OP a possible answer that will put them at rest...
Perhaps the answer is to go and download one of the onion routers such as TOR.
Set up a new account and use the network of routers to hide your originating IP address.
There is a price to pay for this, you give up a substantial amount of your bandwidth, but if privacy is al that important this may be the answer.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Wilksey on October 27, 2015, 11:47:06 pm
As for "Tapatalk" just enable desktop mode on the phone/tablet browser, usually works around those "we have an app for this" popups.

This works on my iPhone Safari browser, showing up only for couple times after browser restart, but I recall it did not work for a Samsung Android phone I tried, it kept popping up in desktop mode. It was very annoying.

Works fine on my Samsung S3 phone with the latest Chrome browser installed.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Delta on October 27, 2015, 11:47:56 pm
May I suggest to the OP a possible answer that will put them at rest...
Perhaps the answer is to go and download one of the onion routers such as TOR.
Set up a new account and use the network of routers to hide your originating IP address.
There is a price to pay for this, you give up a substantial amount of your bandwidth, but if privacy is al that important this may be the answer.

Or for an extra layer of privacy, go and live in a field and send encrypted messages via a carrier pigeon.  (example fjehgbriejvbvbfuejs = send more tin foil)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 28, 2015, 12:02:13 am
Quote
Perhaps the answer is to go and download one of the onion routers such as TOR.

I appreciate the thought, but if you believe that this kind of thing is the answer then you don't understand the issue.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 28, 2015, 12:20:06 am
Quote
What a ridiculous suggestion and comparison, and you know it.
It is only ridiculous because you don't see the snooping as a breach of privacy.

You chose whether to register and post on this forum.
You chose whether to use an anonymous account or not.
This forum has had this feature from day 1, it was there two years ago when you registered and have since made 500+ posts. Now you want to say it invades your privacy?
Sorry, but no, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 28, 2015, 01:56:41 am
Quote
This forum has had this feature from day 1, it was there two years ago when you registered and have since made 500+ posts. Now you want to say it invades your privacy?

1. The previous thread you referred to shows it was enabled and being used earlier this year, so obviously it was recently turned off and active before that.

2. If I wasn't aware before that this was going on (and I didn't know about the real-time who page), does that make it alright now I am aware? Of course not - just because you get away with something for a while doesn't mean it's acceptable. Maybe someone likes to use a particular racial epithet in their post and they do that for months before you notice. Are you saying you'd have to keep letting them because you didn't call them out instantly? I suspect not.

2a. Maybe I didn't realise I could bring it up and ask. There has actually been something bugging me for a while (nothing to do with this, and I resolved it just last week after puzzling over it for months), and I was about to ask about that having figured that I could ask. Before, I didn't think I could.

2b. I normally turn off stuff like this automatically (and enable email notifications, plus other usual things one does when one joins a new forum). If, indeed, the option wasn't available at that time I would have assumed that would be because the info isn't publicised. Later, when I notice it /is/ publicised (I wouldn't automatically be looking for it every page) I would assume that it didn't apply to me since I automatically turn that stuff off. I mean, I don't have a country or sig, so anything relating to those are not applicable to me so why would I bother looking at that stuff? If I then found the system had automatically allocated me a sig or country, that would be a big surprise because I would still be ignoring stuff I should have been looking at. Same with this - the option is 'don't show' as far as I would be concerned, so no reason to investigate anything. Then I notice I am in that list, and raise the query.

So, not having tackled you about it in two years or whatever is perfectly legitimate with several pukka explanations (one of which is your fault), and doesn't in and of itself invalidate my query.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 28, 2015, 12:12:15 pm
May I suggest to the OP a possible answer that will put them at rest...
Perhaps the answer is to go and download one of the onion routers such as TOR.
Set up a new account and use the network of routers to hide your originating IP address.
There is a price to pay for this, you give up a substantial amount of your bandwidth, but if privacy is al that important this may be the answer.

Or for an extra layer of privacy, go and live in a field and send encrypted messages via a carrier pigeon.  (example fjehgbriejvbvbfuejs = send more tin foil)
That works fine also. :)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 28, 2015, 02:46:35 pm
May I suggest to the OP a possible answer that will put them at rest...
Perhaps the answer is to go and download one of the onion routers such as TOR.
Set up a new account and use the network of routers to hide your originating IP address.
There is a price to pay for this, you give up a substantial amount of your bandwidth, but if privacy is al that important this may be the answer.

Or for an extra layer of privacy, go and live in a field and send encrypted messages via a carrier pigeon.  (example fjehgbriejvbvbfuejs = send more tin foil)
That works fine also. :)

fjehgbriejvbvbfuejs!!
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 28, 2015, 04:47:50 pm
Quote
This forum has had this feature from day 1, it was there two years ago when you registered and have since made 500+ posts. Now you want to say it invades your privacy?
1. The previous thread you referred to shows it was enabled and being used earlier this year, so obviously it was recently turned off and active before that.

I don't recall changing it at all.

Quote
2. If I wasn't aware before that this was going on (and I didn't know about the real-time who page), does that make it alright now I am aware? Of course not - just because you get away with something for a while doesn't mean it's acceptable.

You have every right to find it unacceptable.
I have looked into it, thought about it, and decided that it is as acceptable as it always has been. This is also evidenced by not a single other complaint about it that I can recall in 5+ years.
So that's that, I'm not changing it. Sorry.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 28, 2015, 09:51:17 pm
Quote
I don't recall changing it at all.

Drunk in charge of a web forum one night?

Quote
I have looked into it, thought about it, and decided ...

Yes, indeed. I am appreciative that you did listen and even tried the change, which is far more than many places would bother with. We have each given robust defenses of our particular position on this and I am also appreciative that we haven't come to blows (or bans!). Thanks  :-+
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 28, 2015, 11:28:31 pm
This is really a very simple situation;
Dave's Forum
Dave's Website
Dave's House, in effect
Dave's Back yard
Dave's Football
Dave's Rules....

Any Questions?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Andy Watson on October 28, 2015, 11:52:12 pm
Any Questions?
Can somebody please explain what the problem was? I've read most of this thread and I am none the wiser (except for now understanding that the OP has some paranoia about people knowing where he tips his cat crap!)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: GNU_Ninja on October 29, 2015, 12:08:56 am
Can somebody please explain what the problem was? I've read most of this thread and I am none the wiser (except for now understanding that the OP has some paranoia about people knowing where he tips his cat crap!)

The OP does not want to be seen to be online when online ... I think  :-//
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: mikerj on October 29, 2015, 01:01:19 am
Any Questions?
Can somebody please explain what the problem was? I've read most of this thread and I am none the wiser (except for now understanding that the OP has some paranoia about people knowing where he tips his cat crap!)

Either:

1) An unreasonable level of paranoia.
2) The OP is on the run from the NSA, but feels the need to log into the eevblog forum to discuss electronics with random people.

It's a great forum, so I'm voting for 2).
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Bud on October 29, 2015, 01:08:53 am
Let me ask from a different angle:

What is the purpose to see one's online status?

What is the benefit to me to advertise im online? If this serves me no purpose then it is just a bell/wistle and as such is a useless feature.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on October 29, 2015, 01:15:06 am
Let me ask from a different angle:

What is the purpose to see one's online status?

What is the benefit to me to advertise im online? If this serves me no purpose then it is just a bell/wistle and as such is a useless feature.

What Difference does it make?
Maybe I want to see if my friend is online so I can PM them or call them on the phone...
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: neotesla on October 29, 2015, 04:59:22 pm

Maybe I want to see if my friend is online so I can PM them or call them on the phone...

And if they don't want to be contacted, then you've got one good reason why some people are asking for privacy (it's not all that difficult to understand, really).
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 29, 2015, 05:35:56 pm
Either:

1) An unreasonable level of paranoia.
2) The OP is on the run from the NSA, but feels the need to log into the eevblog forum to discuss electronics with random people.

It's a great forum, so I'm voting for 2).

Snowden is that you?  ;)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 29, 2015, 06:34:33 pm
Let me ask from a different angle:
What is the purpose to see one's online status?

I explained that before:
1) To new people it gives sense of active forum, a more social feel.
2) It lets you see if someone is (potentially) still reading the thread you just replied to, if so you might want to hang around for a reply from them or more chat etc. If you see that no one is reading the thread but you, then, well, maybe better off heading to bed.

Quote
What is the benefit to me to advertise im online?

Reverse of the above, people might reply to you quicker.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 30, 2015, 09:19:42 am
So I am not allowed to be below the ramparts because it would cause the "(+1 hidden)" to spoil the look of things, but nevertheless there is a "(+1 hidden)" all the same. Fancy that, eh:

(http://i.imgur.com/paGfbQE.png)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: ruffy91 on October 30, 2015, 09:50:38 am
Just give it up and start reading the forum logged out. Some people just can't understand the meaning of privacy. (It's not hiding, it's just not generating data where there's no NEED. It's called "Datensparsamkeit" in german, it translates to something like "principle of data economy". Also it is about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dr.diesel on October 30, 2015, 10:16:20 am
Fancy that, eh:

Can I seriously ask why?  It's not like your viewing the chronic masterbaiter support form.   :-//
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on October 30, 2015, 10:34:50 am
@Ruffy91 et al.: This doesn't affect you at all. I have no idea why you feel the need to poke your nose into it other than so you can take a contrary stance. Probably some ego thing, and of course there is the mob bullying aspect where juvenile insults just have to be made because... well, because that gives you a hard on.

Just ignore this thread if it bothers you so much.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: bitwelder on October 31, 2015, 09:35:21 pm
So I am not allowed to be below the ramparts because it would cause the "(+1 hidden)" to spoil the look of things, but nevertheless there is a "(+1 hidden)" all the same. Fancy that, eh:
Hmm... I wonder if you can register on the forum with the handle "(+1 hidden)"  ;D
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 31, 2015, 09:50:58 pm
So I am not allowed to be below the ramparts because it would cause the "(+1 hidden)" to spoil the look of things, but nevertheless there is a "(+1 hidden)" all the same. Fancy that, eh:

If I knew who they were I'd change their profiles too. Unfortunately I can't see a way to search for profiles that are hidden.
Ironically it's you who got me to change this for a while that allowed these people to slip though.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: crispy_tofu on October 31, 2015, 09:58:48 pm
To admins, I think the (+3 Hidden) is replaced with the names of the members, but they are italicised.  :-+

Something like this:
On the other hand, to me this is very useful:
(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/privacy/?action=dlattach;attach=178438;image)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 31, 2015, 11:19:19 pm
To admins, I think the (+3 Hidden) is replaced with the names of the members, but they are italicised.  :-+

Ah, could be!, nice catch.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on October 31, 2015, 11:23:19 pm
Yep, that worked.
4 italicised people found and corrected  >:D
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Muttley Snickers on October 31, 2015, 11:27:55 pm
Just need to convert the guests into members now, there must be a hidden check box for it somewhere that no one has found yet...... ;D
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on November 01, 2015, 01:27:34 am
Quote
4 italicised people found and corrected

Ulp! Hope you didn't tell 'em I ratted them out.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: SeanB on November 01, 2015, 01:44:35 am
Quote
4 italicised people found and corrected

Ulp! Hope you didn't tell 'em I ratted them out.

What are they going to do?  Ignore you? Send you nasty looks via email?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: AF6LJ on November 01, 2015, 05:23:39 am
Yep, that worked.
4 italicised people found and corrected  >:D

i was italicised once, I didn't like the result and went back in and had the procedure reversed.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 12, 2017, 12:26:40 pm
Old thread, but since we have the anti-paranoid here it's as good a place as any.

If some bloke was outside my house and posted on, say, Facebook whenever I went to bed or got up, and followed me around the shops detailing which ones I was looking in, etc, I would be really annoyed. Wouldn't you? Yet that info is here on EEVBlog for anyone that cares to look.

Isn't this a breach of privacy? In other threads, there are bad words said about program authors who capture this info to 'improve their products' (or maybe monetize you). Somewhat double-standarized, I think.

However, what really caught my eye about this was that the info can be detrimental to EEVBlog. Consider, for instance, that there is some discussion about a controversial topic. Let's say, oh, solar roadways. Someone posts so point of view or info, and you go looking at who the hell they are. You notice that their 'Most popular boards by activity' is Renewable Energy, that they post at any time of day or night (i.e. don't have fixed hours for sleep/work) and you write them straight off as obvious perpetual motion dingbats without a life. Or maybe they spend a lot of time in Crowd Funded Projects - obviously like to watch other people's projects being trashed. That's going to color your view of them, and your interpretation of what they post.

I find it surprising and rather disappointing that personal data is broadcast to anyone who cares to look without so much as a by your leave. If you don't care that's fine - feel free to share your life with world+dog, but surely it is polite to ask before you expose people. Imagine the fun some of the ex-participants of this forum, who got ejected and regularly spam the place, could have with people they are not too happy with.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Brumby on January 12, 2017, 01:00:28 pm
Well, you could get access to other people's Profiles removed, but that doesn't hide the information - it just makes it more difficult to get.

There's no secret about the information that is available here - and it's completely bilateral between ordinary members.  Admin and Moderators have access to more information - but that should not be a worry.  If it is, then you are in the wrong place.

As for the information itself - it is based on what you do and say, so it you have a problem with it, then don't provide it.  If you find yourself conflicted about wanting to post something - but fear the bogeyman will "get you", then maybe you aren't as convicted in the value of your opinion and of it being scrutinsed in public.

It's not as if someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to divulge personal information.


There is sufficient anonymity available here for me to participate, however even that has been abused by some who want to cause problems.  Fortunately, there are tools that are available to Admin to deal with that - and I am glad they are available.  Too much anonymity is an invitation for trouble.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 12, 2017, 01:49:04 pm
Quote
it just makes it more difficult to get

Yes, but that's the thing. In the Stasi days it was a significant effort to acquire this info. The normal person didn't have a hope unless they put in very serious work and knowledge, and then they had to target a specific person. The data was there, but safe because it was too difficult to acquire. Nowadays, it's a button click away and, hence, becomes a problem through technology making it easy for anyone at all to snoop and stalk.

Quote
it is based on what you do and say, so it you have a problem with it, then don't provide it

You mean I shouldn't visit certain topics in case someone sees me do it? Are you serious?

Further, one issue I was pointing out was interpretation of the data. People often jump to an erroneous conclusion when looking at data - indeed, it is a recognised problem in science with actual trained scientists.

Further still, the whole point is that it is not based on what I say. That is, what I say may be interpreted in different ways by people who have pre-judged me based on background data. Gosh, even without that, we often seen comments which have missed the thrust of the post they're commenting to.

Quote
It's not as if someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to divulge personal information.

How do I prevent it being used, then? Are you going to indulge in victim blaming and suggest that I shouldn't visit EEVBlog if I want to retain my privacy? As far as I'm aware, that's the only way to prevent this data being presented.

What about those users who don't know their data is being dished up? Are they also to blame for not taking steps, whatever they may be, to hide it?

Quote
there are tools that are available to Admin to deal with that

Indeed, and when I sign up to a forum I assume the admin has far more data available to him that is presented here. But that's the admin, not every user who bothers to visit the site. Should everyone know my email address, my login password, my IP address? Of course not! There is a difference between the admin and some random user. Or should be.

Quote
so it you have a problem with it, then don't provide it

Well, indeed. Hence my post - I am trying to NOT provide it, but someone else is displaying it without asking me or allowing me to not broadcast it. Perhaps you have a suitable solution?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 12, 2017, 02:09:43 pm
Quote
one issue I was pointing out was interpretation of the data

As an example, see this post So many views (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-(uk)-iso-tech-gfg2004-4mhz-dds-function-generator/msg1102298/#msg1102298) where it would be easy to jump to some conclusion. I see similar on Ebay where my missus says "Oh, that (an item I have for sale) will go for a lot because there are X watchers".

Another example: Do a google on "batteriser is rubbish" and see there are 1500 or so hits. Yet "batteriser works well" has over 20,000 hits. Obviously it's a great product! Yet I often see people use the number of Google hits as proof of something. The only way to stop proles from seeing what they want to see in data is to not give it to them.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: tautech on January 12, 2017, 03:17:31 pm
So I won't call you paranoid, but overly concerned, maybe.

After more than 2 decades on the net I have not let my guard down as much as my online security has increased.
Even with my website included in my profile and contact details on the website the amount of unsolicited contact outside normal business is miniscule other than all manner of Test equipment manufacturers wanting me to peddle their products.
On my site management page I see all browsing that originates from EEVblog and the IP addresses of anybody that hits my site. It's no big deal just as I leave a digital trail wherever I go.

I contacted Simon sometime ago after member and mate Deathwish ceased posting in an attempt to find more details about Garry and what had become of him. To my surprise the little I had gleaned from Garry over the years I knew more about his personal details than Simon could offer.
Should I wish to examine another members info it would only be to have some idea of when they'd likely be online and TBH it's easier if they have a profile flag as it takes less time to look at a world clock.

If you feel you're being stalked, entice them inside and plug a hole in them with the second shot into the ceiling as proof that a warning shot was fired.  ;)  >:D

Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Brumby on January 12, 2017, 03:25:32 pm

Quote
it is based on what you do and say, so it you have a problem with it, then don't provide it

You mean I shouldn't visit certain topics in case someone sees me do it? Are you serious?

If it worries you that someone can see you do that - then YES!

As for the rest of your paranoia, I am led to think the internet is not the place for you - and perhaps society itself is too much of a risk.  It might be less stressful if you go "Off the grid".  Then you'll only have the satellites to worry about.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Brumby on January 12, 2017, 04:12:50 pm
Going to the shops must really freak you out....  All those eyes that can see you, see what shops you go into and even what sections you visit.

Oh, the humanity.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Brumby on January 12, 2017, 04:55:16 pm
I would also like to point out that the behaviour you have willingly and openly displayed on this thread alone - which is visible to the whole world - is more than enough to attract the attention of any passers-by.

Sometimes the safest place to be invisible is in plain sight - but without the megaphone.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Muttley Snickers on January 12, 2017, 05:04:54 pm
I inadvertently posted my full details on the forum once so we are damn lucky to have the ability to go back and edit even historical posts, I soon discovered that this was not possible on another forum I joined years ago so I haven't been back since and have no intention of doing so either, their terrible loss not mine. I occasionally go back in time to tidy up grammar, spelling and such but quoted posts have to stay as they are, looking like a dogs breakfast.

On another occasion I attempted to track down the whereabouts of another member to send him a pallet big box couple of chocolates in appreciation for his assistance but the confirmed address could not be verified and I tried like really hard so had to give up in the end and eat the chocolates.

Don't read this as it contains private stuff.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-bm235-multimeter-dilemma/msg858198/#msg858198 (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-bm235-multimeter-dilemma/msg858198/#msg858198)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: NexusKoolaid on January 12, 2017, 05:15:16 pm
Going to the shops must really freak you out....  All those eyes that can see you, see what shops you go into and even what sections you visit.

Oh, the humanity.
If going to the shops freaks him out this one will drive him absolutely bananas https://www.amazon.com/b?node=16008589011 (https://www.amazon.com/b?node=16008589011)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on January 12, 2017, 06:03:58 pm
Old thread, but since we have the anti-paranoid here it's as good a place as any.
If some bloke was outside my house and posted on, say, Facebook whenever I went to bed or got up, and followed me around the shops detailing which ones I was looking in, etc, I would be really annoyed. Wouldn't you? Yet that info is here on EEVBlog for anyone that cares to look.

Terrible analogy.
You have the option to not log in whilst reading, so no one can see your username.
You have the option to have a completely anonymous account. Only usernames are shown unless you deliberably chose otherwise.

If you aren't happy with those options then you really shouldn't be on the internet at all.

Quote
Isn't this a breach of privacy?

No. Because you are the one that elects to provide this information by logging in and having an account that can be tracked to you.
Only the persons anonymous username is revealed, and for very good reasons.

Quote
However, what really caught my eye about this was that the info can be detrimental to EEVBlog.

It's not.

Quote
Consider, for instance, that there is some discussion about a controversial topic. Let's say, oh, solar roadways. Someone posts so point of view or info, and you go looking at who the hell they are. You notice that their 'Most popular boards by activity' is Renewable Energy, that they post at any time of day or night (i.e. don't have fixed hours for sleep/work) and you write them straight off as obvious perpetual motion dingbats without a life. Or maybe they spend a lot of time in Crowd Funded Projects - obviously like to watch other people's projects being trashed. That's going to color your view of them, and your interpretation of what they post.

Of an anonymous person!

Quote
I find it surprising and rather disappointing that personal data is broadcast to anyone who cares to look without so much as a by your leave.

It's not, Read my first paragraph above.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on January 12, 2017, 06:09:09 pm
Indeed, and when I sign up to a forum I assume the admin has far more data available to him that is presented here. But that's the admin, not every user who bothers to visit the site. Should everyone know my email address, my login password, my IP address? Of course not! There is a difference between the admin and some random user. Or should be.

Your email address is not visible to anyone but the admins, unless you chose it to be.
Your IP address is not visible to anyone but the admins, unless you chose it to be.
Your login password is not visible to anyone, even the forum owner. I can never see your password nor tell you what it is if you lose it.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 12, 2017, 08:08:06 pm
Quote
So I won't call you paranoid, but overly concerned, maybe.

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 12, 2017, 08:11:46 pm
Quote
Going to the shops must really freak you out....  All those eyes that can see you

You are kneejerking and missing the thrust of my point(s).
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 12, 2017, 08:14:22 pm
Quote
the behaviour you have willingly and openly displayed on this thread

Hey, someone has to make a stand for the good of mankind! So, suggest a better method of bringing it to people's attention.

And... having 'willingly and openly' displayed something, doesn't that kind of suggest something to you? Like, perhaps, I am still here and still making footprint instead of browsing incognito...
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 12, 2017, 08:22:40 pm
Quote
You have the option to not log in whilst reading, so no one can see your username.

Sure, but the only reason I do log in is so the forum tells me what I haven't seen yet. Don't log in and every message is new every time.

Quote
You have the option to not log in whilst reading, so no one can see your username.

Yes, I am aware of that. It may have escaped your attention that dunkemhigh isn't actually my real name :)

Quote
Because you are the one that elects to provide this information by logging in

That's interesting logic. You're effectively saying that by visiting some website I am electing to provide anyone who can all the data on me that they can figure out. If I walk in a shop, all the data provided by my phone, my NFC debit card, my photo, etc is fair game for the shopkeeper to use in any way they see fit?

You might also note that I accepted that the site admin has access to forum stats, so that's you point settled. What I am beefing about is that the forum admin is also giving that info out to everyone else. Just by visiting your site I am NOT saying "Yes, fine, tell that bozo over there the times I get up and go to bed".
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: tautech on January 12, 2017, 08:26:32 pm
Quote
You have the option to not log in whilst reading, so no one can see your username.

Sure, but the only reason I do log in is so the forum tells me what I haven't seen yet. Don't log in and every message is new every time.
Hint
Log in, check replies or latest posts......

Mark all messages AS READ.  ;)

Done.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on January 12, 2017, 08:38:03 pm
Quote
You have the option to not log in whilst reading, so no one can see your username.
Sure, but the only reason I do log in is so the forum tells me what I haven't seen yet. Don't log in and every message is new every time.

Then just use an ANONYMOUS username. This is not rocket science.

Quote
Quote
Because you are the one that elects to provide this information by logging in
That's interesting logic. You're effectively saying that by visiting some website I am electing to provide anyone who can all the data on me that they can figure out. If I walk in a shop, all the data provided by my phone, my NFC debit card, my photo, etc is fair game for the shopkeeper to use in any way they see fit?

If you participate in a forum then you need a username. You have the option to keep it all anonymous.

Quote
You might also note that I accepted that the site admin has access to forum stats, so that's you point settled. What I am beefing about is that the forum admin is also giving that info out to everyone else. Just by visiting your site I am NOT saying "Yes, fine, tell that bozo over there the times I get up and go to bed".

If you don't like the way the forum works then leave. I have explained why the forum works the way it does and I'm not changing it because of your hangup.
I will not correspond with you any further on this.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 12, 2017, 08:50:04 pm
Quote
Your email address is not visible to anyone but ...

Yes, I know, and your response suggests you missed the point I was making. We would be put out if that info was made available, right? I mean, that's why one has the choice of not making it available. So why is other personal info not in the same class? That is, how come what I am looking at, and how often I do that particularly compared to how often I post about it, isn't as sacred?

Don't forget that where intelligence services (oh god, the mere mention will mark me down as a conspiracy nut) are supposedly prevented from sucking up everything they are more than happy to make do with metadata - who you talk to and when you do it is more revealing that what you say. Here, my private behaviour is being revealed.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: tautech on January 12, 2017, 08:57:56 pm
Quote
So I won't call you paranoid, but overly concerned, maybe.

Thank you :)
I'm reconsidering.  :-//
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: NexusKoolaid on January 13, 2017, 04:49:47 pm
So why is other personal info not in the same class?

Because not all information is of the same value.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Someone on January 13, 2017, 07:36:10 pm
If I walk in a shop, all the data provided by my phone, my NFC debit card, my photo, etc is fair game for the shopkeeper to use in any way they see fit?
You'll find that shops are getting very active in this area, and not just for themselves but they'll buy the service from some enormous "network" that associates your data across any place/platform it can get its snooping into and feeds the intelligence back to its paying clients. All in the pursuit of selling you more crap you didn't think you needed, or making you pay more for what you were going to buy anyway.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 13, 2017, 10:07:56 pm
Quote
You'll find that shops are getting very active in this area

Indeed. So long as it doesn't have an obvious effect no-one cares and things get ratcheted up so it becomes the norm. Then anyone disagreeing with it is a tinfoil nut.

Perversely, I think Snowden may have contributed to this. He showed that stuff which was previously completely off-the-wall conspiracy theory make-believe was actually true, and the bar of what might be going on has been raised so high that tracking your phone around a shop is really trivial and hardly worth mentioning. It's not that long ago that we would be both amazed that it's possible and aghast that it might be used.

However, I think we are still missing an important point in my original post: it is one thing for the operators to gain this info in furtherance of their interests and quite another for release that info to the public. In context, we would be talking about the shop having a public display screen showing not just where you are right now but which aisles you walked around last week and the week  before, and which items you bought (or looked at but didn't buy).
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: jpc on January 14, 2017, 07:01:22 am
Even if I accepted your analogy as valid, if I didn't like what the shop was doing I wouldn't visit it any more and similarly, if I thought what the site was doing was remotely the same and didn't like it I would stop visiting it. But seriously, what problem is there in other people knowing what threads you have shown some interest in, especially as you are, at least to most people, anonymous. But even if everyone here did actually know your real life ID what harm would there be in them knowing which threads you had shown some level of interest in.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: helius on January 14, 2017, 07:15:18 am
Do you use the same username on other forums? Do you browse the web from an open wireless network?
It's possible, in some cases, to de-anonymize users based on their location information (wifi tracking). You can then build a database of their online identities and locate them in real time. But this requires intercepting network traffic from your machine to the remote host; having the username be printed on a web page doesn't increase the effectiveness of the attack.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 08:06:27 am
Quote
if I didn't like what the shop was doing I wouldn't visit it any more

There is always that option. But we don't have to be at either one extreme (everything's fine, don't give a toss) or the other (cut off you nose to spite your face). You can just not be fine with it and make your view known in the hope that it might be changed, or a serious discussion about it could take place, and if it doesn't well at least you tried. Since I am here posting this I would have thought it obvious whereabouts in that between-extremes range I am.

Quote
what problem is there in other people knowing what threads you have shown some interest in
As I pointed out earlier, people can jump to possibly erroneous conclusions. But I have been brought up not to poke my nose into other people's business (and learned a few lessons the hard way when I was still naive), so it is difficult for me to know how to put that kind of info to use. Nevertheless, many social engineering exploits work not from some specific instance of data but by putting together several from different sources. Each instance by itself it innocuous, but put them together and you go places.

The other factor is that this is a genie you can't put back in the bottle once it's out. I would suggest that those people posting selfies when they've had a few jars in highschool never thought such unimportant stuff would bite them when their future employer googles them. I work on the basis that there should be a good reason for using data about, not that there should be a good reason NOT to use it.

Quote
as you are, at least to most people, anonymous
Let me deal with this one in my reply to helius.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 08:22:56 am
Quote
Do you use the same username on other forums? Do you browse the web from an open wireless network?

No, no. Kind of :) I won't elaborate on that further in case it sets off a search, but it is not quite that simple.

Quote
de-anonymize users based on their location information
Ha! No, I always strip exif from photos :) But the sort of un-anonymizing you mention isn't an issue. We are not concerned here with realtime intercepts (if those were an issue there would be a far greater problem to deal with).

Here, it would be possible for a user of one forum to read my posts and figure out who I am. On that forum I might trust the userbase a bit more, or let slip some info about, say, my locality without identifying the place directly, and here some other snippet which would similarly be useless on its own could be matched... In fact, I do sometimes not post about stuff I learn from here to other places because it would indeed identify my source and then a perusal of writing patterns would match my separate IDs quite quickly.

But, on this business of being anonymous: when I first went online I used some made-up name and figured I was anonymous. Over time, as that name got known, I realised that online that name IS me. My real name out here is the anonymous one - everything anyone knew about me was associated with my online name. So surely the trick would be to use a different one, right?

Well, this is the thing. Suppose I am actually TopLoser and to protect my anonymity I use a different name every other week. Are you going to be buying stuff from me? Of course not - you have no idea who I am, and just look at the hassle low posters get when trying to shift cheap stuff: "Put a shoe on your head and take a photo to prove it" indeed! The simple fact is that being anonymous is incompatible with having a reputation and, particularly on a forum like this one, you need that reputation.

Again, it is not helpful to talk only extremes. Being completely anonymous or completely wide open are not the only choices. There is a sweet spot (which varies for each person) somewhere between those. We are all putting ourselves in that range somewhere - yes, even you - and I think it a bit off to belittle other people for choosing a different position in that range to the one that (generic) you chose.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 08:31:54 am
Well, since this thread got woken up again today, I thought I might elaborate:

Quote
So long as it doesn't have an obvious effect no-one cares and things get ratcheted up so it becomes the norm.

As it happens, check this out: The Guardian on Whatsapp (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/13/whatsapp-backdoor-allows-snooping-on-encrypted-messages)

The (early) comments were interesting in that basically no-one gave a toss. Lots of jokes, of course. "I pity anyone given the job of reading through other people's whatsapp group messages." Lots of yawns: "Owned by Facebook - what did anyone really expect?" A fair amount of 'but you need to do x,y,z for it to be an issue' type dismissals.

Backdoors and spying is now the norm and unsurprising. Hardly anyone will stop using Whatsapp or Facebook, and now most can't even work up to "Blimey, that stinks".
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: jpc on January 14, 2017, 10:22:50 am
If my privacy was that important to me that I thought which posts I was interested in gave people a chance to suss out who I was IRL and that the owner of the site had said that nothing will change I do have but two choices. Put up with it or leave and that is where you are as Dave has already said the subject is closed.

By the way, if you have posted to more than one forum for a reasonable period in more than short sentence posts it wouldn't take anybody truly interested too long to find you with a fair degree of certainty so as to be able to follow you around the web with the right software, whatever username you were using. The point being that once you make yourself known on the Internet the only thing giving you any kind if privacy is the fact that in most cases the people capable of doing so aren't interested enough in the general you to go looking for you. Once they are it is only a matter of time before they find out all they want to about you. So the only way to keep people from finding out about you, assuming for some reason you ever became interesting enough for someone to go looking, is not to participate in Internet forums and blogs. Whether we like it or not, the privacy genie is long out of the bottle and the only thing protecting the majority's privacy is that nobody is interested enough in them to go digging.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Brumby on January 14, 2017, 10:53:14 am
Well, since this thread got woken up again today, I thought I might elaborate:

Hypocrite

(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/privacy/?action=dlattach;attach=285041;image)

... and behaving like a troll.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 11:04:56 am
In my initial recent post I explained why I'd posted here. Then, after that, I only replied to other comments. The bit about being anonymous I had in mind for some time but didn't want to just keep posting to the thread and keep it going, so I waited until the subject was raised before posting. Ditto with the Guardian thing in that I had considered mentioning it earlier but didn't because I didn't want to keep restarting this same subject.

That's not being a hypocrite. It is not trolling. It is a simple statement of fact. Hell, even if I now keep posting every five minutes, that doesn't change the fact that when I posted that comment, I did so because someone had commented and I replied to them.

Unless... you meant you're trolling, which I could well believe. I have no idea why you felt the need to bring that up, but it takes all sorts.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Brumby on January 14, 2017, 11:30:29 am
Deflect all you like.  I don't think there are many others here that would disagree with what I said.

You will, of course, because you will need to defend your position.



No matter what.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 11:43:53 am
Oh, since the thread's started up again....

Whatevers  :)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Brumby on January 14, 2017, 12:20:35 pm
Oh, since the thread's started up again....

... and, pray tell, just WHO did that?

In case you missed it....
(http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/privacy/?action=dlattach;attach=285041;image)

Again, I say, hypocrite.


But enough.  I think it pointless to continue.

* waits for the inevitable *
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 12:26:32 pm
It was pointless to bring it up, but you knew that and did it anyway to satisfy you own urge. You can easily kill it off by letting it drop, as I pointed out before,  but you can't, can you. It's that urge, see :)

Same thing makes random people throw insults into threads when they see someone getting metaphorically beat up (warranted or not). Kind of mob rule. Trolling, if you like (and you appear to like!).

See you when you start it up again since you can't resist  :-DD
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: Brumby on January 14, 2017, 12:34:30 pm
Read the hidden text in my previous post.


Bye.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 12:45:57 pm
If you have something to say, say it. Being childish and using hidden text to score some perceived point is, well, childish. As such, I have no interest in even checking for it never mind reading it.

Until next time  :-+
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: helius on January 14, 2017, 07:35:21 pm
Here, it would be possible for a user of one forum to read my posts and figure out who I am. On that forum I might trust the userbase a bit more, or let slip some info about, say, my locality without identifying the place directly, and here some other snippet which would similarly be useless on its own could be matched... In fact, I do sometimes not post about stuff I learn from here to other places because it would indeed identify my source and then a perusal of writing patterns would match my separate IDs quite quickly.
If you study the history of activists/hackers who got doxxed, the following between sites and writing pattern analysis are big factors. Sometime soon if not already, a lot of that is going to get automated, and people are going to be rudely surprised when their "anonymous" online comments have sticky consequences. There won't be room for sloppy OPSEC any more.

Quote
Well, this is the thing. Suppose I am actually TopLoser and to protect my anonymity I use a different name every other week. Are you going to be buying stuff from me? Of course not - you have no idea who I am, and just look at the hassle low posters get when trying to shift cheap stuff: "Put a shoe on your head and take a photo to prove it" indeed! The simple fact is that being anonymous is incompatible with having a reputation and, particularly on a forum like this one, you need that reputation.
It would appear that Zero-Knowledge Proofs are a way to have a reputation while being anonymous (Alice can prove that she is trusted by N parties who Bob also trusts, without Bob knowing that Alice is Alice). More generally, webs of trust make it possible to finely divide reputation among independent witnesses, in place of the subjective "name recognition" used by humans.
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on January 14, 2017, 07:47:25 pm
DunkemHigh might like to be reminded of the Streisand effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 10:39:47 pm
Quote
Sometime soon if not already

Indeed. There is progress in that field just as in any other (and there's a lot of money chasing it too).

Quote
Zero-Knowledge Proofs

First I've heard of that. Thanks for the pointer!
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 10:54:29 pm
Quote
DunkemHigh might like to be reminded of the Streisand effect

DunkenHigh thanks EEVBlog for the reference but notes that he has acknowledged same earlier in the thread and additionally pointed out that he is still posting despite that.

There seems to be an assumption that if one feels uncomfortable about this kind of thing one has to be at the extreme end of the tinfoil scale. I don't see why one can't feel uncomfortable about it, and make that known, yet still 'go with the flow'.

Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: EEVblog on January 14, 2017, 11:10:19 pm
There seems to be an assumption that if one feels uncomfortable about this kind of thing one has to be at the extreme end of the tinfoil scale.
I don't see why one can't feel uncomfortable about it, and make that known, yet still 'go with the flow'.

Going with the flow means to drop it and not talk about it again after you've had your say.
You've said you don't like it, I've listened and thought about it and said why the forum is not changing to meet your desire, that's it, how about you just drop it now?
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: tautech on January 14, 2017, 11:26:09 pm
I'll chip in for some tinfoil..........
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: dunkemhigh on January 14, 2017, 11:26:49 pm
As I said to the other chap, I have only been replying to comments. Don't you think it would be ignorant (not to mention impolite) to ignore everything once I've had my say? Or if someone chooses to quibble about what I said, am I not allowed to clarify it or defend myself?

Of course, if it annoys you (or anyone else) you/they don't have to read it or comment to it, you know. I'm sure there's a wikipedia bon mot I could dig up if necessary :)
Title: Re: Privacy
Post by: ovnr on January 15, 2017, 02:03:23 pm
As I said to the other chap, I have only been replying to comments. Don't you think it would be ignorant (not to mention impolite) to ignore everything once I've had my say? Or if someone chooses to quibble about what I said, am I not allowed to clarify it or defend myself?

Of course, if it annoys you (or anyone else) you/they don't have to read it or comment to it, you know. I'm sure there's a wikipedia bon mot I could dig up if necessary :)

I'm also sure there isn't a strict requirement that you must have the last word in the discussion either.