Author Topic: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013  (Read 51226 times)

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Offline jancumps

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #200 on: December 10, 2013, 07:50:45 am »
... but most people do the same...
I'm not sure about that. I think most people don't use the blockers and look with the default browser with default settings.
- note that my claim is not backed up by any evidence.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #201 on: December 10, 2013, 08:39:22 am »
Let me break it down for you Dave.  You would not need near as many views to make the same amount of money as you do OR you could have the same amount of views and make a ton more if it were not for Adblock plus and NoScript.  Don't deny it because everyone, including Google, has admitted how much revenue it has "stolen" from them and from them means from you as well.

Show me the actual data to back up this claim, you have not done so.
I don't doubt it's had some impact, but like I said, I don't think it's a large impact for me and for other full time youtubers I know. The data just does not back that up.
You made the claim that because of Adblock I would only be getting pennies for my views, and backed that up with your income figures.
I have told you the reasons why you got those low income figures, and it's NOT entirely due to adblock, or even a majority due to it.
My (and others) $/view figure is orders higher than yours ever was, and that is because of how the youtube/adsense system and advertising $ distribution system works which I have tried to explain to you.
I have been using Adsense before Adblock ever came around, and $/view figures has only gone UP since then, so I have little to complain about in that area.
Could I be making more if Adblock didn't exist? Yes, but not a huge amount.
But I'm sick of repeating myself on this issue, and won't engage any further on this issus.
 

Offline Dark Prognosis

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #202 on: December 10, 2013, 09:51:00 am »
Let me break it down for you Dave.  You would not need near as many views to make the same amount of money as you do OR you could have the same amount of views and make a ton more if it were not for Adblock plus and NoScript.  Don't deny it because everyone, including Google, has admitted how much revenue it has "stolen" from them and from them means from you as well.

Show me the actual data to back up this claim, you have not done so.
I don't doubt it's had some impact, but like I said, I don't think it's a large impact for me and for other full time youtubers I know. The data just does not back that up.
You made the claim that because of Adblock I would only be getting pennies for my views, and backed that up with your income figures.
I have told you the reasons why you got those low income figures, and it's NOT entirely due to adblock, or even a majority due to it.
My (and others) $/view figure is orders higher than yours ever was, and that is because of how the youtube/adsense system and advertising $ distribution system works which I have tried to explain to you.
I have been using Adsense before Adblock ever came around, and $/view figures has only gone UP since then, so I have little to complain about in that area.
Could I be making more if Adblock didn't exist? Yes, but not a huge amount.
But I'm sick of repeating myself on this issue, and won't engage any further on this issus.
Then don't engage because you are wrong on some of it.  If they can't stream an ad to someone you make zip as they make zip and the whole point in ADP and Noscript is that no ads are streamed.  No banners, no bottom of video ads, no anything ad related and you sit there saying it has minimal impact is just foolish at best.

Now if you seriously think Google isn't trying to defeat ADP because it IS hurting their profits then why did they reverse their stance about it? http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/02/13/google-has-effectively-killed-adblock-plus-in-android-4-2-2/

http://seekingalpha.com/article/701731-google-adblock-and-the-future-of-internet-advertising

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/29/troubles-ahead-for-internet-advertising/?_r=0

Know what is even funnier?  Google seems to have paid ADP to not block some of their properties (google that and there is a lot of links to various sites about that story).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 10:02:17 am by Dark Prognosis »
 

Offline IanB

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #203 on: December 10, 2013, 10:36:02 am »
Then don't engage because you are wrong on some of it.  If they can't stream an ad to someone you make zip as they make zip and the whole point in ADP and Noscript is that no ads are streamed.  No banners, no bottom of video ads, no anything ad related and you sit there saying it has minimal impact is just foolish at best.

You are honestly being a bit obtuse here and I have no idea why you are arguing.

Dave says, "I know how much income I get from YouTube and it's not zip."

You say, "You must be making zip from YouTube because Adblock Plus."

Now between you and Dave, who knows most accurately what Dave's YouTube income is?
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #204 on: December 10, 2013, 11:10:15 am »
Now between you and Dave, who knows most accurately what Dave's YouTube income is?

And it's not just about the actual income, it's about the $/view ratio, the $/click ratio, and the click-through ratios.
As as I have tried to explain, that only keeps on going up for me (+the step levels I have also explained), both before and after AdBlock came into existence. That just shoots a complete hole in Dark Prognosis's theory.
The simple fact is you can't get any data on how much AdBlock is causing a revenue drop, as a content producer, not only can yu not know how many of your viewers are using it, even if you did you can't discriminate that from the usual large variability in the different types of revenue and the sporadic nature of ad campaigns. So anyone who claims they know how much drop it causes is just talking bull.

Is AdBlock causing an issue and drop in income for producers, yes. Is it as end-of-worldish as Dark Prognosis makes out? No, not even close, he's got it completely wrong.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 11:12:11 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Six_Shooter

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #205 on: December 10, 2013, 11:34:20 am »
What's the difference between "click" and "click through" ratios?
 

Offline Dark Prognosis

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #206 on: December 10, 2013, 12:41:08 pm »
Then don't engage because you are wrong on some of it.  If they can't stream an ad to someone you make zip as they make zip and the whole point in ADP and Noscript is that no ads are streamed.  No banners, no bottom of video ads, no anything ad related and you sit there saying it has minimal impact is just foolish at best.

You are honestly being a bit obtuse here and I have no idea why you are arguing.

Dave says, "I know how much income I get from YouTube and it's not zip."

You say, "You must be making zip from YouTube because Adblock Plus."

Now between you and Dave, who knows most accurately what Dave's YouTube income is?
Fact is he isn't owning up to the truth and that is if he stopped all other avenues of his income EXCEPT for YT videos his income would not be going up IF the same metric was used as when he first started.  Price you get per ad goes up but the number who are seeing those ads has went down.

Sure, the outcome is more money but only because the longer he stays around the more revenue he gets for the ads that someone does see who isn't using ADBlock Plus.  That is the part he isn't mentioning so we are both correct about this issue only I am saying that the revenue increases per ad seen (even if clicked to go away/skip) but the number of ads seen as drastically went down due to ADP and this has caused Google to start trying to take action.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #207 on: December 10, 2013, 02:00:05 pm »
It fundamentally won't work. The people using AdBlock are the people who don't care about the ads anyway, so even if AdBlock was disabled it would only make things worse. The advertisers would now be paying more money to reach an audience that hates  them and will ignore their ads.

I am the advertisers' worst nightmare. I don't use AdBlock, but I don't care for their ads either. So by viewing their ads I am costing them money  >:D
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #208 on: December 10, 2013, 02:09:51 pm »
Fact is he isn't owning up to the truth and that is if he stopped all other avenues of his income EXCEPT for YT videos his income would not be going up IF the same metric was used as when he first started.  Price you get per ad goes up but the number who are seeing those ads has went down.

I'm fed up telling you that you are wrong. Obviously nothing will convince you. I have data that backs up what I say. My income has INCREASED and continues to increase using the SAME METRIC as when I started.  |O
 

Offline SpectrHz

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #209 on: December 10, 2013, 03:01:29 pm »
It fundamentally won't work. The people using AdBlock are the people who don't care about the ads anyway, so even if AdBlock was disabled it would only make things worse. The advertisers would now be paying more money to reach an audience that hates  them and will ignore their ads.

I am the advertisers' worst nightmare. I don't use AdBlock, but I don't care for their ads either. So by viewing their ads I am costing them money  >:D

^ This!  I understand peoples adversity to adblock since it is a "detriment" to youtubers, but as Dave said, the numbers just aren't there to back that up. The people who have adblock got it for a reason!
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Offline Dark Prognosis

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #210 on: December 10, 2013, 06:09:40 pm »
Fact is he isn't owning up to the truth and that is if he stopped all other avenues of his income EXCEPT for YT videos his income would not be going up IF the same metric was used as when he first started.  Price you get per ad goes up but the number who are seeing those ads has went down.

I'm fed up telling you that you are wrong. Obviously nothing will convince you. I have data that backs up what I say. My income has INCREASED and continues to increase using the SAME METRIC as when I started.  |O
I think we have a misunderstanding because if you started right now you would make less per ad and would have less ads delivered to viewers due to ADP.  Now after all of the years you have done this, and your subscribers has went up, your revenue per ad shown has went up, by a lot, and I know this from Google themselves when I asked how this worked for my own channel.  Now the amount of ads shown has went down for everyone BUT if your subscriber count goes up, or you go to an external 3rd party like Maschima (or any revenue sharing partner), and you have paid your dues each ad that does get streamed will net you more.

So, that one ad that makes it through gives you 1 dollar whereas before it might have taken 20 or 40 ads to make that same amount so ADP in that case would cripple you but the bigger channels bring in so much more per ad that gets through ADP has a little impact on them but not as drastic as someone who needs 20 to 40 ads streamed to make a buck because those 20 to 40 ads may take 5k-10k views to get. 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 06:12:51 pm by Dark Prognosis »
 

Offline zapta

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #211 on: December 12, 2013, 04:57:05 am »
I don't understand the viewers fuss around youtube. Don't like the real-names policy or don't want to use G+?, then don't use it (that's what I do). Want to leave comments?, avoid the rif raf  and post them directly in the forum thread (you already have an account here), don't like the youtube page for some reason? (I don't mind), use this http://www.eevblog.com/ or this http://fixyt.com/search?q=eevblog (I do). Want to watch off line?,  get a youtube downloader or a podcast player (I am using Pocket Casts). Want to watch on your TV? Use one of those smart TVs or streaming boxes.

So many options to avoid any annoyance and the videos are ad free. I really don't understand the heat.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 09:13:19 am by zapta »
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Dark Prognosis

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #212 on: December 17, 2013, 01:29:53 pm »
Quote
Google is forcing us to make google+ accounts and invading our social life to comment on a youtube video and trying to take away our anonymous profile. They are also trying to censor us unless we share the same worldview as they do.

New information has been brought to me by one of the supporters of this petition that their account was suspened by google for telling people about this petiton. Just another reason to sign this petiton.

If you want to spread this petiton around Youtube, make sure to do it on a seperate account because others have told me people have been suspended for shareing this petiton with others.

This link is all of Google's locations given to me by a very generous person, it might help some people.

http://www.google.com/intl/en/about/company/facts/locations/

 

contact me at deriklawl@gmail.com if you want to ask a question.

Here is the petition to sign and they are close to having enough signatures.

https://www.change.org/petitions/google-change-the-youtube-comment-section-back-to-its-original-form
 

Offline wilheldp

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #213 on: December 17, 2013, 01:55:37 pm »

Here is the petition to sign and they are close to having enough signatures.

https://www.change.org/petitions/google-change-the-youtube-comment-section-back-to-its-original-form

Enough signatures for what?  If they get 300k signatures, will Google be compelled to change the comment system back to the old form?  I don't think so.
 

Offline Dark Prognosis

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #214 on: December 17, 2013, 09:32:50 pm »

Here is the petition to sign and they are close to having enough signatures.

https://www.change.org/petitions/google-change-the-youtube-comment-section-back-to-its-original-form

Enough signatures for what?  If they get 300k signatures, will Google be compelled to change the comment system back to the old form?  I don't think so.
Agreed but it will be wonderful to see what would happen.

Just like EBay stole the market out from the competition of other auction sites I figure Google has this as well.  Eventually I know I will go Google-less because their goal is to have everyone use G+ as a unified login for all Google services and most people are not complaining about how Google uses all of our information (including working with the US govt) but there is no anonymity as G+ uses real names.  That seems to be what most people are complaining about across the web.

It is a shame they aren't complaining about the real issue of using our information for their gain both in monetary ways AND with favors of the US govt.  Terrorism can suck the big boom stick as it is used to get all sorts of things done that wouldn't otherwise be allowed (I love the Federal Judge who just spanked the US govt for all of the data collecting it does, and Google is part of that as well, as it is against the 4th amendment).
 

Offline TheEPROM9

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #215 on: December 26, 2013, 07:00:43 pm »
terisum is the most bullshit bogee man in exsistance. Never have times been so safe, there no world wars or any threats to the west, well apart from thUS government, I have a pasinot hate for them.
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Offline Dark Prognosis

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #216 on: December 27, 2013, 08:32:48 am »
Something I learned yesterday is that Google talk (this is old news but new to me) is going bye-bye as the open source protocol it used Google has ditched.  All of those hardware devices that used Google talk for free phone calls will cease as of May 14, 2014 when Google shuts off the XMPP stream and to get to use it you MUST have a Google+ account and use Google+ Hangout.
 

Offline TheEPROM9

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #217 on: January 18, 2014, 11:09:59 am »
Google have gone and done it again, had a site that made this abomination look nice and easy to use. Now they are messed with it and it's back to being an unuserble turd, THERE ARE NO DAM OPTIONS TO CHANGE IT GERRRR!!!!

It does not even make what I have watched any more. There is nothing more annoying than a problem out of my control!
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Offline timelessbeing

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #218 on: January 18, 2014, 07:04:32 pm »
There is nothing more annoying than a problem out of my control!
Does it make you feel like your hands are tied?  :-DD
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 07:43:17 am by timelessbeing »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #219 on: January 18, 2014, 08:12:41 pm »
At least the names are back. For a while there was just the icon, and you had to hover to see the link to get info from the URL.
 

Offline vk3yedotcom

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #220 on: January 24, 2014, 09:53:03 pm »
YouTube has added a new button called 'community'.

At least you can see recent comments a lot easier rather than going through each video.

Found about 40 comments 'marked as spam' - most were genuine and was able to tick them.

But you still can't make them if you don't have G+

« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 09:55:52 pm by vk3yedotcom »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #221 on: January 24, 2014, 10:24:15 pm »
YouTube has added a new button called 'community'.
At least you can see recent comments a lot easier rather than going through each video.

That's progress, but STILL no reply button there! ARRRGH!!
I've been screaming for that for years now, why is it so hard?
 

Offline apelly

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #222 on: January 25, 2014, 12:12:18 am »
Does it make you feel like your hands are tied?  :-DD
Doh!  :palm:
I'd rather a Google clue, link, or some theory than "do this" (generally)
 

Offline Remy Brandt

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #223 on: January 31, 2014, 07:42:47 am »
Not reading the whole topic. But This is my first post here because google fucked youtube and I wanted to comment on a teardown and just was disabled.
Fucking assholes! They do not understand within ten years everyone shares video from its own server,just like home brew sites now share pictures.
The whole youtube thing only exists because home users have bad connection.
I totally agree with all rants posted here and in the video. Some human stuff is really stupid and youtube is part of that.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 07:47:39 am by Remy Brandt »
 

Offline wilheldp

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Re: RANT: Big New Youtube Google+ Changes Nov 2013
« Reply #224 on: January 31, 2014, 08:00:47 am »
I'm already noticing some YouTubers banding together with other channels with similar content and opening their own web pages. They are still cross-posting content between the new sites and YT, but I think this is a step in the right direction.  If they can get their viewers to accept the new site, then they can gradually phase out YT.  If this trend catches on and actually works, YT may have sealed it's own fate.  It's still far too soon to make any bold statements like that, though.
 


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