The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition

[EEVblog]

[GK]

Well that was informative 
I hate Stanley Kubrick.

[Fungus]

Well that was informative 
I hate Stanley Kubrick.

Lighten up, dude .... Jeez.

[Psi]

but is the book size the squares of 1,2,3  (1 by 4 by 9)  ?

[VK5RC]

No but if "Dave" opens it he will be transformed.  HiHi.

[DutchGert]

Yes my dear sir, thou art worthy

[Mike Warren]

 

[DutchGert]

Question is: do u have it........?

[Artlav]

Makes me cringe and laugh at the same time.  
A pun-tastic video, Dave!

[German_EE]

For the true 2001 experience Dave and Seppy need to circle around it on all fours throwing rocks. I wonder what happens when sunlight strikes it for the first time?

Oh yes, and a lot of us DO like the movies of Stanley Kubrick

[GK]

Well that was informative 
I hate Stanley Kubrick.

Lighten up, dude .... Jeez.

I'm sorry, Fungus. I'm afraid I can't do that.

[GK]

For the true 2001 experience Dave and Seppy need to circle around it on all fours throwing rocks.

Believe it or not, after the first 5 seconds that is entirely what I was expecting to see.

[MikeF]

Received an email from Amazon (UK) yesterday saying I will get my copy April 16 2015 - April 18 2015

Mike

[EEVblog]

Question is: do u have it........?

Do you think I edited an image into the video? 
Follow me on twitter and you'd know...

[Muttley Snickers]

I would strongly advise against a teardown on this bit of kit....


Muttley

[Sirius631]

I don't see any copies of the second edition going cheap. That would be useful to me, since I seem to be surrounded by old components.

[AF6LJ]

but is the book size the squares of 1,2,3  (1 by 4 by 9)  ?

It's the coffee table edition 1, 9, 81....

[Tek_TDS220]

Who is the 'extra'?   Is he the same guy who turned the scope upside-down?

[dr.diesel]

Who is the 'extra'?   Is he the same guy who turned the scope upside-down?

I didn't go back and check, but I think so.  Must be the intern Dave was looking to hire.

[McBryce]

I would strongly advise against a teardown on this bit of kit....


Muttley

"I wouldn't do that if I were you Dave"... Row, row, row your boat...

McBryce.

[eV1Te]

I just ordered mine! Apparently an online-bookstore in Sweden claimed to have it in stock, surprising since not even amazon has it yet...

[nanofrog]

I don't see any copies of the second edition going cheap. That would be useful to me, since I seem to be surrounded by old components.

You could opt for the International Edition, which is the same content in a paperback. Example.

[Corporate666]

1) so.... is it good?


and


2) Thank <insert diety>!  Now we can FINALLY be done with the "OMG when is Win going to get that book done, I am so angry that he didn't finish it yet!!!!"

[Dave]

I ordered it on BookDepository at the beginning of this month and it said the expected delivery should be April 30th.
Today I received an email saying that the package is on the way.

They now claim to have it in stock, but the price is significantly higher.

[MarkL]

It is close to April 1, ya know...

[G7PSK]

You must be worthy Dave, otherwise you would not have a pre-release copy-So we should all be supplicating to you now.

[robrenz]

My Amazon preorder US  says May 13-16 delivery

[tchicago]

The 2nd edition was translated to Russian in 1993 and printed in large volumes. This is how it looked: large format with soft cover in 3 volumes. Each volume had the cover in its own bright color.

[Fungus]

I just downloaded a pre-release copy off The Pirate Bay. I give it two thumbs up.   

Much better than the previous version...

[PaulS]

It is close to April 1, ya know...

I definitely checked the date before clicking on the video.

[MarkL]

My Amazon preorder US  says May 13-16 delivery

Hmmm...  My pre-order (from January) doesn't have a delivery date yet.  But Amazon is listing the release date as March 31.

[Warhawk]

I just downloaded a pre-release copy off The Pirate Bay. I give it two thumbs up.   

Much better than the previous version...

I pre-ordered my copy today. Surprisingly the price was OK even here. What is new there ? I happen to have a PDF version of the 2nd edition and realized that I need a  paper version very soon.

[Neganur]

similar glorious moment of humanity...

[Maalobs]

When Amazon announces an earlier than expected delivery date:


When the book is finally delivered:

[Smokey]

Photoshop....
If they can fake the moon landing in the 60s they can fake this too. 

Wouldn't it be great if it was a giant scam and Winfield and Hill took all these pre-orders for the last 25 years and then disappeared.

[Prime73]

I just downloaded a pre-release copy off The Pirate Bay. I give it two thumbs up.   

Much better than the previous version...

I pre-ordered my copy today. Surprisingly the price was OK even here. What is new there ? I happen to have a PDF version of the 2nd edition and realized that I need a  paper version very soon.

 I happen to have a pdf version as well, hoverer I always feel that reading pdfs especially technical stuff is very difficult compare to a real book. maybe it's just me. Ordered a copy today as well.

[Zarnywhoop]

This needed to end with a multimeter being thrown spinning up into the air...

[Fungus]

Imagine that same picture with a Fluke 27 photoshopped in!   

(No, I can't be bothered to do it...)

[mtdoc]

Great video Dave 

Yeah -  email today!

[TheWelly888]

I've pre-ordered my copy from Waterstones, post free. Expected date 30th April.

Oh! This reminds me of pre-ordering Harry Potter books just before publication dates.

[lapm]

Now that's definitely in my to buy list... Sadly i had no money to preorder so will have to pay regular price.

Like someone put it: were not worthy.... 

All we need now is video of Dave going over whats changed...

[Macbeth]

Now that's definitely in my to buy list... Sadly i had no money to preorder so will have to pay regular price.

If only you had known they don't take the money until dispatch day Even then I have another month to settle the credit card before interest racks up.

[Rasz]

yay for Dave finally joining YT network (Warner Music Group) 

[railman]

I don't see any copies of the second edition going cheap. That would be useful to me, since I seem to be surrounded by old components.

https://www.adafruit.com/products/309

Cost more than the new one.

[Neganur]

there's an Indian print version for people who can't afford expensive hard covers. (the 2nd ed., that is)

[jippie]

Amazon Germany seems to have a reasonable price:

The Art of Electronics
Horowitz, Paul,Hill, Winfield
Verkauft von: Amazon EU S.a.r.L.

EUR 66,32
(oder weniger)

Ordered it yesterday morning (2015-03-25 07:44 CET).

...

Wait, it's priced EUR 75,95 now (39 hours later) :-/ I'll have to keep an eye on my credit card charges.

[Prime73]

This needed to end with a multimeter being thrown spinning up into the air...

totally ! 

[Bud]

there's an Indian print version for people who can't afford expensive hard covers

Books in Soft covers always tell me how serious the authors were about their books.

[EEVblog]

yay for Dave finally joining YT network (Warner Music Group) 

yeah, they auto-flagged the music.
Where does it say that publicly?

[EEVblog]

You must be worthy Dave, otherwise you would not have a pre-release copy-So we should all be supplicating to you now.

I'm special 
Paul & Win are fans of the blog and contacted me and made sure it happened.

[Neganur]

Books in Soft covers always tell me how serious the authors were about their books.

I don't know what you mean. The Cambridge University Press India is specifically printing on the cheapest paper, and of course soft cover, to save cost for the end user. What makes you think the two blokes weren't serious about their book?

[timb]

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[nick5435]

NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.
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An optional additional explanation is:

[calexanian]

As of right now Amazon has it available prime (free shipping) for $110 and change. A bit of a sticker shock for an electronics book, but I had to remind myself they are basically going more after text book type markets and that is typical if not downright reasonable pricing in that market.

[jazz]

Ooh, so Alice Cooper was in your lab? Hmm, nerds making a TV show from their basement... ok, close enough anyway

Unsure though why that old-fashioned conglomerate of plant fibers is obstructing the view Ohh wait, I think I get it:

[Armxnian]

Did you use gpu rendering for this video? Seemed like it had more visual effects than usual 

[Dubbie]

If anyone wants a hardcover copy of the SECOND edition, I will send it for the price of postage once my third edition arrives.

[QuadESL63]

That's a very nice offer Dubbie.
I might be very interested. Where are you located?

Jac

[Dubbie]

New Zealand

I'd prefer to give it to someone who will read it, not just someone looking to resell it.

[blackbird]

" And presented in Dave's unique non-scripted overly enthusiastic style! "

Hmm, non-scripted?? Ok, it is a short video so I guess the idea was born only a few minutes before shooting this video. Most important thing, you brought a smile to my face 

[necessaryevil]

Isn't this for the eevBLAB? Funny video anyway!

[Gixy]

Just pre-order it.
Shipping is free only inside Germany. Ordering from France, I have to pay the shipping, OK, but the book is sent from the European store in France... Anyway, at the end the price is 25% less in Germany!

Amazon Germany seems to have a reasonable price:

The Art of Electronics
Horowitz, Paul,Hill, Winfield
Verkauft von: Amazon EU S.a.r.L.

EUR 66,32
(oder weniger)

Ordered it yesterday morning (2015-03-25 07:44 CET).

...

Wait, it's priced EUR 75,95 now (39 hours later) :-/ I'll have to keep an eye on my credit card charges.

[Fungus]

Just pre-order it.
Shipping is free only inside Germany. Ordering from France, I have to pay the shipping, OK, but the book is sent from the European store in France... Anyway, at the end the price is 25% less in Germany!

Yep, Germany seems cheaper for some reason.

So much for the "Euro Zone" eliminating price differences between member countries...

[German_EE]

I cannot see why Warner should be involved where the opening of '2001' is concerned. The movie was distributed by MGM which is now part of Sony and anyway it's a classical music piece which should be out of copyright.

[EEVblog]

Did you use gpu rendering for this video? Seemed like it had more visual effects than usual 

Some cross fades, real advanced stuff!

[Macbeth]

I just downloaded a pre-release copy off The Pirate Bay. I give it two thumbs up.   

Much better than the previous version...

Care to PM me a link to the torrent? Searching TPB and Google in general only brings up the 2nd edition. It's also not on several private sites I'm a member of.

Ditto to what timb said!

I think you have both been trolled hard  I took the original post as a joke, maybe it's that British humour we are famous for?

[timb]

I just downloaded a pre-release copy off The Pirate Bay. I give it two thumbs up.   

Much better than the previous version...

Care to PM me a link to the torrent? Searching TPB and Google in general only brings up the 2nd edition. It's also not on several private sites I'm a member of.

Ditto to what timb said!

I think you have both been trolled hard  I took the original post as a joke, maybe it's that British humour we are famous for?

I enjoy British humor and didn't take the post that way, but maybe you're right. Then again someone else mentioned having a download too.

(For the record I've pre-ordered the book, but I want a copy for my iPad as well.)


Sent from my Tablet

[Fungus]

I just downloaded a pre-release copy off The Pirate Bay. I give it two thumbs up.   

Care to PM me a link to the torrent? Searching TPB and Google in general only brings up the 2nd edition. It's also not on several private sites I'm a member of.

Ditto to what timb said!

I think you have both been trolled hard  I took the original post as a joke, maybe it's that British humour we are famous for?

I particularly enjoyed all the "link please!!! OMG!!" PMs.... 

[timb]

I just downloaded a pre-release copy off The Pirate Bay. I give it two thumbs up.   

Care to PM me a link to the torrent? Searching TPB and Google in general only brings up the 2nd edition. It's also not on several private sites I'm a member of.

Ditto to what timb said!

I think you have both been trolled hard  I took the original post as a joke, maybe it's that British humour we are famous for?

I particularly enjoyed all the "link please!!! OMG!!" PMs.... 

So you basically trolled yourself then? Good job!


Sent from my Tablet

[Fungus]

I particularly enjoyed all the "link please!!! OMG!!" PMs.... 

So you basically trolled yourself then? Good job!

Which part of the word 'enjoy' didn't you understand?

Sent from my Tablet

Do you actually type that in every time?

[timb]

Having my inbox clogged up and notifications going off constantly would annoy me, but maybe you're a masochist? To each their own.

(No, I don't type the signature every time. It's part of Tapatalk. I didn't remove it because typing on my phone or tablet sometimes generates weird words to to autocorrect, also genital spelling and gramophone Miss steaks. The signature lets people know I'm not completely retarded.)


Sent from my Tablet

[Corporate666]

You must be worthy Dave, otherwise you would not have a pre-release copy-So we should all be supplicating to you now.

I'm special 
Paul & Win are fans of the blog and contacted me and made sure it happened.

Dave,

I am not well versed in how well authors get paid, but I've known Win (electronically) for years and he has been immensely helpful to me and incredibly generous with his time and advice to everyone I've ever seen ask him questions.   

Would it be possible for Win to somehow sell these books directly to EEVblog members and pocket the money himself rather than paying Amazon (or whomever) a cut? 

Or perhaps the margins in the book industry do not make this worthwhile?  If the margins are fat, he could even perhaps arrange a group-buy below MSRP and he'd get alot more profit and we'd all get a small discount.

Possible?

[Fungus]

Having my inbox clogged up and notifications going off constantly would annoy me, but maybe you're a masochist? To each their own.

Oh, I see.

I'm still part of the generation who doesn't carry a beeping/vibrating box around with me 24/7.

I woke up this morning and noticed there were some emails in my inbox after I opened my email client. Didn't disturb me at all...

Typed on a full-size Model M keyboard - any spelling mistakes are my own.

[Zucca]

Preordered the 3rd edition on amazon.de (ETA 3 May 2015 here in Germany)

Stupid question, if I will have the 3rd does it make sense to buy the 2nd too?

[Fungus]

Would it be possible for Win to somehow sell these books directly to EEVblog members and pocket the money himself rather than paying Amazon (or whomever) a cut? 

I don't think book publishing works that way.

He might get a free copy or two from the publisher but all the big the piles of books will be in a warehouse where he doesn't have access.

[Fungus]

Stupid question, if I will have the 3rd does it make sense to buy the 2nd too?

No. The 3rd will be an updated/revised version of the second. A lot of the content will be the same.

If was all new content it would be called "Volume 3" or something like that, not "3rd edition".

[Gixy]

Today Amazon.de schedule is 15-16 April for shipping.

No need to buy second edition, except for collectors. The digital part is completely obsolete (nearly 30 years old). French edition is in 2 volumes, one for analog, the other for digital and miscelaneous other things. The analog part is still a reference, even if a lot of indicated parts are no more available (transistors, opamps, ...)

[calexanian]

Would it be possible for Win to somehow sell these books directly to EEVblog members and pocket the money himself rather than paying Amazon (or whomever) a cut? 

I don't think book publishing works that way.

He might get a free copy or two from the publisher but all the big the piles of books will be in a warehouse where he doesn't have access.

I have a few thoughts on this based on observations working with an author friend who has had a number of good sellers on Amazon. Typically the publisher will give you a handful of promotional copies to use to plug the book.  After that they all go to the distributor, typically Amazon, etc. they sell that quantity of books and based on sales they will either re press the book or let it sit out of stock for a while then wiat for orders to stack up before re ordering. When it feels like the "rush" is over they will re evaluate their inventory and if they or the publisher have more than a couple years worth of books on hand they will offer a large quantity of them to the author at a fraction of the cost,  otherwise they will destroy most of them for inventory control purposes and wait for another rush years later to repress. At this time you will see authors be able to cut great deals to people, but it has to be after the publisher/distributor makes all of their money after the initial Rush. After that things loosen up. My friend used to actually buy his own book by the case from Amazon and for a $20 hardback book would sign it, personalize it for whoever, and charge $25 for one of those coppies and told me he was making more money on that copy even after the shipping and labor thAn he was making per copy on the regular books. On the signed copy he calculated he Was making about $3 but the publisher was only paying pennies a piece. They take your advance for the book back out of the profits, then like the movie companies come up with all sorts of reasons not to pay you after that. But he keeps writing cause he likes it.

[Fungus]

Today Amazon.de schedule is 15-16 April for shipping.

The book is currently at #1 on amazon.de and they haven't even shipped one yet!

[peteyboy]

Oddly conflicted this is happening.
I just got out of those 'broke college years' and my wife worked overtime to purchase the 2nd edition as my 2014 Christmas present. I can now afford purchasing the 3rd edition but i would feel bad not using the difficulty purchased 2nd edition.

[nixfu]

From what other authors have told me.

They can actually make MORE MONEY from the commissions that Amazon pays if people purchase it via a link like Dave has setup for his little amazon affiliate store on the eevblog site.


Supposedly the affiliate pay from Amazon by providing merely a link to their personal web site to sell the book,  is much more than what they get per book from the publisher from having written the damn thing.

Kinda sad actually.

[Fungus]

Oddly conflicted this is happening.
I just got out of those 'broke college years' and my wife worked overtime to purchase the 2nd edition as my 2014 Christmas present. I can now afford purchasing the 3rd edition but i would feel bad not using the difficulty purchased 2nd edition.

Is the dust cover the same size on both books...?   

[edavid]

They can actually make MORE MONEY from the commissions that Amazon pays if people purchase it via a link like Dave has setup for his little amazon affiliate store on the eevblog site.

Amazon commissions are no secret, they range from 4-8.5%:
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/gp/associates/help/operating/advertisingfees

Considering that AoE is an incredible bestseller, I would expect that H & H are getting much higher royalty rates than that for this edition.

[nanofrog]

Oddly conflicted this is happening.
I just got out of those 'broke college years' and my wife worked overtime to purchase the 2nd edition as my 2014 Christmas present. I can now afford purchasing the 3rd edition but i would feel bad not using the difficulty purchased 2nd edition.

There's material in the 2nd ed. that's not in the 3rd ed. and vice versa as I understand it, so having both might actually be a good idea.

If you don't want to pay for a hardcover, you could wait for the International Edition to release (paperback, but same content). Suspect it would come in ~ $30 shipped.

[Fungus]

There's material in the 2nd ed. that's not in the 3rd ed. and vice versa as I understand it, so having both might actually be a good idea.

Hopefully the stuff they removed was the stuff that's no longer relevant/useful in the 21st century. The "digital" section has a lot of stuff that's hopelessly outdated, eg. the section on assembly language using the 808618 instruction set.

And does anybody still mess around with flip-flops now we have ubiquitous microcontrollers...?

[qno]

Nice movie Dave,

The music used is not from the Stanley Cubrick movie but actualy from

Richard Strauss. It is named  "Also sprach Zarathustra" written in 1896.
You can read all about it on wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Also_sprach_Zarathustra_%28Strauss%29

[timofonic]

Did you use gpu rendering for this video? Seemed like it had more visual effects than usual 

Some cross fades, real advanced stuff!

EEVBlog: The movie
By Dave L. Jones, Bob Pease, Jeri Ellsworth, Steven Spielberg and Ridley Scott.
An Australian, American and British co-production. Agloparlants everywhere!

The definitive nerd movie! Coming soon in the most advanced theaters.

[timofonic]

There's material in the 2nd ed. that's not in the 3rd ed. and vice versa as I understand it, so having both might actually be a good idea.

Hopefully the stuff they removed was the stuff that's no longer relevant/useful in the 21st century. The "digital" section has a lot of stuff that's hopelessly outdated, eg. the section on assembly language using the 808618 instruction set.

And does anybody still mess around with flip-flops now we have ubiquitous microcontrollers...?

What the hell! Me!

I'm studying a two year electronics course at a vocational training school. We learn and mount circuits using. combinational and secuential circuits all the time on "microprogramable electronics" subject, soon we will learn to develop for Arduino too.

Despite it might look outdated, many teachers believe this classic style has a more didactic value to learn the grounds of basic knowledge, they are still used for easy circuits and many systems use software to do visual programming using them as abstraction (such as PLCs).

I disagree about removing them. I would make AoE all digital and live like with Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries. This way it can have no page limits and constantly updated. Paper versions would be like a selection of the most relevant parts of it. Some parts could have historical relevance, even for making replacements of old circuits.

[JackOfVA]

There's material in the 2nd ed. that's not in the 3rd ed. and vice versa as I understand it, so having both might actually be a good idea.

Hopefully the stuff they removed was the stuff that's no longer relevant/useful in the 21st century. The "digital" section has a lot of stuff that's hopelessly outdated, eg. the section on assembly language using the 808618 instruction set.

And does anybody still mess around with flip-flops now we have ubiquitous microcontrollers...?

What the hell! Me!

I'm studying a two year electronics course at a vocational training school. We learn and mount circuits using. combinational and secuential circuits all the time on "microprogramable electronics" subject, soon we will learn to develop for Arduino too.

Despite it might look outdated, many teachers believe this classic style has a more didactic value to learn the grounds of basic knowledge, they are still used for easy circuits and many systems use software to do visual programming using them as abstraction (such as PLCs).

I disagree about removing them. I would make AoE all digital and live like with Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries. This way it can have no page limits and constantly updated. Paper versions would be like a selection of the most relevant parts of it. Some parts could have historical relevance, even for making replacements of old circuits.

For an example of what happens when an author follows the continuous update route, look at Don Knuth and The Art of Computer Programming.  Volume 1 was published in 1968 - 47 years ago. Planned to be 7 volumes, but to date, due to revision of already published volumes, we have Vol 1, 3rd ed, Vol 2, 3rd ed, Vol 3, 2nd ed and Vol 4 being published in a series of fascicles, 5 currently published, I believe. 

Dr. Knuth is 77 years old or so, and hence it's extremely unlikely that the projected 7 volume series will be completed.

The Oxford dictionary staff is >> two people, and it's practical for them to publish a dictionary over an extended time, with annual updates.  And, after all, the first edition of the OED required 40 years (1888-1928) to publish the original 12 volumes. While later editions have been published on a somewhat faster cycle, it's still a slow process.

[EEVblog]

Stupid question, if I will have the 3rd does it make sense to buy the 2nd too?

No. The 3rd will be an updated/revised version of the second. A lot of the content will be the same.

Win Hill advises otherwise, and recommends people keep their 2nd edition.

[EEVblog]

Considering that AoE is an incredible bestseller, I would expect that H & H are getting much higher royalty rates than that for this edition.

Book authors typically get 10%, maybe 15% if you are lucky of the retail price for books published and distributed in the regular way.
The retailer is the one who makes the most money, then the publisher, then the distributor and author.

[lapm]

There's material in the 2nd ed. that's not in the 3rd ed. and vice versa as I understand it, so having both might actually be a good idea.

Hopefully the stuff they removed was the stuff that's no longer relevant/useful in the 21st century. The "digital" section has a lot of stuff that's hopelessly outdated, eg. the section on assembly language using the 808618 instruction set.

And does anybody still mess around with flip-flops now we have ubiquitous microcontrollers...?

Your claiming understanding flip-flops is no longer needed? Just becouse you dont need something, docent mean there is not tons of people that do need it. And yes, i do sometimes still use humble flip-flops when microcontroller would be just too overkill complexity..

[tggzzz]

And does anybody still mess around with flip-flops now we have ubiquitous microcontrollers...?

Yes, because they are extremely useful, and MCUs are boringly limited. Try, for example, to get an MCU to do anything whatsoever with a 10Gb/s digital data stream (or even something 100 times slower, for that matter).

New devices (and indeed whole logic families) are still being introduced, e.g. the many 74*[1,2,3]g* devices. Have a look at one companie's 2015 logic catalogue http://www.nxp.com/documents/selection_guide/75017285.pdf

[GK]

You must be worthy Dave, otherwise you would not have a pre-release copy-So we should all be supplicating to you now.

I'm special 
Paul & Win are fans of the blog and contacted me and made sure it happened.

OK, now that you've repaid the favor by having a little fun and giving the book some not so insignificant publicity, is a considered review of the contents on the cards or can I just stop tuning into these discussions from now on with an expectation of potentially finding a reason to go ahead and buy a copy?

I think the AoE is a significant undertaking and a great book for a beginner, covering and introducing the reader to a large spectrum of the "art of electronics" design, but as a consequence of its breadth it doesn't cover any specific topic in particular depth and beyond the hype I find it of minimal use as an engineering reference. Heck, my collection of Prentice Hall editions from my TAFE days cover the theoretical basics of analogue circuit design in a order of magnitude greater detail than the AoE, making the latter, in that regard, pretty much redundant. If the 3rd edition is more of the same, just updated for the day, then I think I'll skip it. However the 3rd edition appears to come with a promise of a wealth of coverage of the arcane aspects of electronics design, which necessarily piques my interest. I honestly found none in the previous editions so details please.
 

[Muttley Snickers]

Many year's ago an old bloke left me these, I'm now an old bloke......

No CMOS or TTL here people.


Muttley

How do you post a full picture, never works for me ?

[ornea]

I would strongly advise against a teardown on this bit of kit....


Muttley

I wonder what sort of MTBF they give for such a device.

[EEVblog]

OK, now that you've repaid the favor by having a little fun and giving the book some not so insignificant publicity, is a considered review of the contents on the cards

Yes.
I didn't do that video to "repay the favor", I did it because I thought it would be fun, nothing more, nothing less.
And FYI, in fact I had already done considerable work and secured an advance copy before H&H emailed me and said they'll make it happen.

[GK]

OK, now that you've repaid the favor by having a little fun and giving the book some not so insignificant publicity, is a considered review of the contents on the cards

Yes.
I didn't do that video to "repay the favor", I did it because I thought it would be fun, nothing more, nothing less.
And FYI, in fact I had already done considerable work and secured an advance copy before H&H emailed me and said they'll make it happen.

I'll take you word for it but FYI I think you've repaid the favor regardless of your intentions. No need to get touchy over perceived implied implications. I'm looking forward to the review.

[GK]

Many year's ago an old bloke left me these, I'm now an old bloke......

No CMOS or TTL here people.


Muttley

I'd be concerned for myself if I knew for certain what your point is, but I am far from impressed by your volume dated 1947 

[tggzzz]

Well, if you want to see what children were encouraged to do in 1934, you could have a look at "The Boy Electrician".

Note particularly the last parts of chapter 13 (XIII ). It did include the warning that you should stop if your skin became red.

[Muttley Snickers]

I think that I understand it now, thanks wilfred.....

All good GK.....


Muttley

[GK]

I think that I understand it now, thanks wilfred.....

Oh, very clever. You're lucky I'm not a Freudian.

[GK]

Well, if you want to see what children were encouraged to do in 1934, you could have a look at "The Boy Electrician".

Note particularly the last parts of chapter 13 (XIII ). It did include the warning that you should stop if your skin became red.

LOL.
About four decades later Australian entrepreneur Dick Smith was selling this. The companion 150-in-1 kit was a hand-me-down that I bought off a school mate.

[Fungus]

Stupid question, if I will have the 3rd does it make sense to buy the 2nd too?

No. The 3rd will be an updated/revised version of the second. A lot of the content will be the same.

Win Hill advises otherwise, and recommends people keep their 2nd edition.

I wasn't suggesting you throw your 2nd edition away if you have one....

[fire219]

Imagine that same picture with a Fluke 27 photoshopped in!   

(No, I can't be bothered to do it...)

You finally gave me an excuse to stop being a lurker and actually sign up.

I was too lazy to redo the whole animation, but here's a still frame at least.

[Mrdjdean]

Ive had mine on pre order for sometime.  They emailed me last week to say the release date has been brought forward a month here in the uk.  should have it next week!   Some pretty good reviews on it so far from other parts of the world

[MarkL]

Well, if you want to see what children were encouraged to do in 1934, you could have a look at "The Boy Electrician".

Note particularly the last parts of chapter 13 (XIII ). It did include the warning that you should stop if your skin became red.

That's one of my all-time favorite books I found in my grade school's library.  I was somewhere around 11 or 12 at the time. (And, no, it wasn't a new copy...)

Runner-up to the x-ray experiment was this fine electrolytic rectifier for AC mains brought out to binding posts.  Not exactly UL listed.

I think the full-wave version would have ended up cooking itself even with no load connected.

[Wmacky]

Meh  -


My favorite electronics book.  (Really my favorite book altogether!)

Inside the vacuum tube by John Rider. I'm lucky enough to have an original copy With the included 3D glasses to view the illustrations!
It starts at the beginning withe what is a electron, and ends with designing tube audio amplifiers. What a journey!

Read it for yourself!

https://archive.org/details/InsideTheVacuumTube

[michael.hill]

It starts at the beginning withe what is a electron, and ends with designing tube audio amplifiers. What a journey!

Spoilers much? :-P

[notsob]

Being 2015 I wasn't  sure what was coming first, the flux capacitor or the art of electronics 3rd edition, I sort of had my heart set on the flux capacitor.

[rolycat]

Being 2015 I wasn't  sure what was coming first, the flux capacitor or the art of electronics 3rd edition, I sort of had my heart set on the flux capacitor.

But the flux capacitor has been around for thirty years 

Here are some for sale now:
The original version.
A newer model which works with non-DeLoreans.

Frankly I prefer the AoE - it's a lot more affordable and doesn't require a supply of plutonium.

[VK3DRB]

Well, if you want to see what children were encouraged to do in 1934, you could have a look at "The Boy Electrician".

Note particularly the last parts of chapter 13 (XIII ). It did include the warning that you should stop if your skin became red.

That's one of my all-time favorite books I found in my grade school's library.  I was somewhere around 11 or 12 at the time. (And, no, it wasn't a new copy...)

Runner-up to the x-ray experiment was this fine electrolytic rectifier for AC mains brought out to binding posts.  Not exactly UL listed.

I think the full-wave version would have ended up cooking itself even with no load connected.

That picture in the Boy Electricians book is shocking. Full wave rectification of 120 VAC = 170 VDC.

[German_EE]

My introduction to electronics was a little bit safer (The Pegasus Book of Radio Experiments) but I do miss the days when books published experiments like the one above. Apart from the excitement of seeing Darwin in action it was an excellent way to teach kids the dangers of electricity in a practical way rather than saying 'don't do that' and hoping for the best.

As a young child I remember when a cover fell off a light switch at school and the teachers kept everyone two or three meters away until the caretaker could replace it. That evening I took the cover off the light switch in my bedroom just to see what was inside and I'm still here.

[tggzzz]

Well, if you want to see what children were encouraged to do in 1934, you could have a look at "The Boy Electrician".

Note particularly the last parts of chapter 13 (XIII ). It did include the warning that you should stop if your skin became red.

That's one of my all-time favorite books I found in my grade school's library.  I was somewhere around 11 or 12 at the time. (And, no, it wasn't a new copy...)

Runner-up to the x-ray experiment was this fine electrolytic rectifier for AC mains brought out to binding posts.  Not exactly UL listed.

I have a different (UK/240V) version, which doesn't quite have that. It does, however, tell you how to charge accumulators:

• "The simplest means of charging accumulators is by means of direct current mains supply. First of all ascertain the polarity of the mains. ... This may be done by inserting both leads in a glass of water in which a little salt has been dissolved. ... The lead around which most bubbles form is the negative"
  

Disappointingly it then goes on to describe a chemical rectifier, but advises you to buy a cheap one.

It also discusses mercury arc rectifiers, which I saw at the bottom of a stairwell powering my Student's Union movie projector. The glass envelope wan't well protected from falling debris, it glowed a rather pretty blue, and I imagine the UV helped reduce acne.

But the spirit of adventure hasn't been completely overwhelmed. The age at which you fly an aircraft on your own has been reduced from 16 to 14 - and the people that have taken advantage of that are mature beyond their years.

[VK3DRB]

For Aussies...

http://www.fishpond.com.au/Books/Art-of-Electronics-Paul-Horowitz-Winfield-Hill/9780521809269

Sounds too cheap and Fishpond have bad reviews. Hmm.

[rolycat]

For Aussies...

http://www.fishpond.com.au/Books/Art-of-Electronics-Paul-Horowitz-Winfield-Hill/9780521809269

Sounds too cheap and Fishpond have bad reviews. Hmm.

$99 is not massively cheaper than some other vendors shipping from the UK. The Book Depository have it for $104.98, for example.

[VK3DRB]

For Aussies...

http://www.fishpond.com.au/Books/Art-of-Electronics-Paul-Horowitz-Winfield-Hill/9780521809269

Sounds too cheap and Fishpond have bad reviews. Hmm.

$99 is not massively cheaper than some other vendors shipping from the UK. The Book Depository have it for $104.98, for example.

Thanks for the link. I just bought it from the Book Depository. The bloke next door told me tonight he buys stuff from them and has never had problems. AUD $124 delivered to my door. Oddly, the book is not released until April 7, and yet they have it in stock and will ship to Oz immediately.

I wonder how long before some shameless crook in China starts printing pirated copies. It would be shameful on any westerner who bought a pirated copy or downloaded it. Maybe I would not feel the same about Justin Bieber's "intellectual" property, but these authors deserve all the royalties that come forth from real intellectual porperty.

[rolycat]

For Aussies...

http://www.fishpond.com.au/Books/Art-of-Electronics-Paul-Horowitz-Winfield-Hill/9780521809269

Sounds too cheap and Fishpond have bad reviews. Hmm.

$99 is not massively cheaper than some other vendors shipping from the UK. The Book Depository have it for $104.98, for example.

Thanks for the link. I just bought it from the Book Depository. The bloke next door told me tonight he buys stuff from them and has never had problems. AUD $124 delivered to my door. Oddly, the book is not released until April 7, and yet they have it in stock and will ship to Oz immediately.

That's odd - the price in AUD seems to vary by the hour. It was $104.98 with free delivery worldwide when I posted the link, you have apparently been charged $124, and it is currently showing $113.91.

The publication date given by Amazon UK is today - March 30th, and the Book Depository is owned by Amazon.

[Muttley Snickers]

Post the coupon, a free........what the hell is a house organ ?

Muttley

[rolycat]

Post the coupon, a free........what the hell is a house organ ?

Muttley

There's a great example in Maya Jane Coles's classic house track "What They Say".

No?

Maybe the Wikipedia version, then.

[TheWelly888]

My copy has arrived from Waterstones today! It's heavy, and at least 1100 pages long! The hardback cover is gold rather than silver.

If you opened the book at the start, it felt exactly the same as the 2nd edition but having just spent the best part of 2 hours looking through the new book, there is substantial updating of the content especially the microcontrollers section (which did not exist in the 2nd edition!)

I suspect Our Dave have had an influence on the book, I've noticed the word "puppy" used a few times!

[timb]

FYI, Amazon has a reprint of The Boy Electrician! http://www.amazon.com/The-Boy-Electrician-Alfred-Morgan/dp/1626549818


Sent from my Tablet

[PA0PBZ]

Ordered at amazon.de yesterday, estimated delivery April 15
This morning an email from them, new availability date April 4
Half an hour ago another email: Shipped!

Interesting...

[rolycat]

Shipped!

Lucky bar steward.

Amazon.co.uk has been "Preparing for Dispatch" since yesterday morning - and they've taken my money 

[MarkL]

FYI, Amazon has a reprint of The Boy Electrician! http://www.amazon.com/The-Boy-Electrician-Alfred-Morgan/dp/1626549818

The comments are pretty consistent with my experience.  Mine is the seventh printing in 1957.  I never noticed it was written in 1913 - over 100 years old now.

There are some scanned copies on the net including google books.  Here's one:

http://danielwebb.us/projects/pd_tech_books/

[blackbird]

At the moment I've got a copy of the fifth edition of 'Electronics: A Systems Approach' by Neil Storey. Could anyone tell me if 'The Art of Electronics' is a sensible addition to this or is it an overkill? 

[Kjelt]

Ordered at amazon.de yesterday, estimated delivery April 15
This morning an email from them, new availability date April 4

Ordered two days ago indeed new availability around april 4 but was in my spambox.

Half an hour ago another email: Shipped!

Uh.... did not receive that one, do they work in reverse order, the person who ordered first get shipped last ?   

[PA0PBZ]

Uh.... did not receive that one, do they work in reverse order, the person who ordered first get shipped last ?   

Lol, I don't know but the tracking says: Voraussichtliche Lieferung Donnerstag, 2. April 2015
That should keep me busy in the coming long weekend 

[German_EE]

If life in the Netherlands is as dead as life in Germany over Easter you have my sympathies. The secret is to save jobs that need to be done for periods like this (assuming the work does not generate too much noise.

Chocolate helps.

[Macbeth]

I was beginning to feel left out. Amazon reduced delivery date to 16/04 and then 09/04 shortly after which is what I have been expecting so far. Just got an email saying they have despatched it and I can expect delivery on Thursday, which means I will get it tomorrow as I always seem to get stuff a day early from amazons estimates.

[dcervant]

I just buy it on amazon Italy for € 48 ($ 51). It seems that prices are falling, but versions of the second edition are more expensive than the third ...

[mtdoc]

I just buy it on amazon Italy for € 48 ($ 51). It seems that prices are falling, but versions of the second edition are more expensive than the third ...

Amazon seems to be selling it for much less in Europe than the US. Here it is $110 on Amazon (currently = 102 Euros).

For US residents - the cheapest I could find at the time I purchased was from Bookdepository.com for $82 shipped.  Looks like they've upped the price to $88 now though.

[Macbeth]

I just buy it on amazon Italy for € 48 ($ 51). It seems that prices are falling, but versions of the second edition are more expensive than the third ...

Blimey, thats only £35! Does that include VAT/Sales Tax, or is Italy like the UK with no VAT on books?

What happened to EU harmonization and the common market?

[SteveyG]

I just buy it on amazon Italy for € 48 ($ 51). It seems that prices are falling, but versions of the second edition are more expensive than the third ...

Blimey, thats only £35! Does that include VAT/Sales Tax, or is Italy like the UK with no VAT on books?

What happened to EU harmonization and the common market?

I only paid £38 from Amazon.co.uk when I pre-ordered. Mine arrived last Saturday.

[tggzzz]

I only paid £38 from Amazon.co.uk when I pre-ordered. Mine arrived last Saturday.

Now you're just being annoying

[Kjelt]

Now you're just being annoying

look at the date 

[SteveyG]

Now you're just being annoying

look at the date 

No, it actually did. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-art-of-electronics-3rd-edition-finished-writing-and-copy-editing/msg640611/#msg640611

[kdre]

delete please. (sorry, wrong thread!)

[Fungus]

Now you're just being annoying

look at the date 

The joke's on him then - you really can get it for that much.

(nb. They don't do April Fools day in Italy....)

[rudika79]

Hi,

Mine copy arrived today.

Rudolf

[dcervant]

I just buy it on amazon Italy for € 48 ($ 51). It seems that prices are falling, but versions of the second edition are more expensive than the third ...

Blimey, thats only £35! Does that include VAT/Sales Tax, or is Italy like the UK with no VAT on books?

What happened to EU harmonization and the common market?

Yes It include VAT/Sales Tax in Italy they call it IVA. But I have to pay the shipping cost to Spain:  €10,11 

Totale parziale degli articoli:    EUR 46,54
Costi di spedizione:    EUR 10,11

Totale IVA esclusa:    EUR 56,65
IVA:    EUR 2,26

Totale Ordine:    EUR 58,91

It will arrive Wednesday, April 8, 2015 by 20:00 

[Smokey]

Damn amazon and their "Retro" April fools joke page making me think I did something wrong.
and...
Damn amazon moving the ship date to April 9th on the book. 

Damn you amazon!!!

[orin]

Damn amazon and their "Retro" April fools joke page making me think I did something wrong.
and...
Damn amazon moving the ship date to April 9th on the book. 

Damn you amazon!!!

I just got an estimated delivery date of April 8th from amazon.com here in the USA for my pre-order...

[Towger]

Now that we have a live camera again, it is interesting to note the pride of place where Dave has placed the book. 

[Grapsus]

I just buy it on amazon Italy for € 48 ($ 51). It seems that prices are falling, but versions of the second edition are more expensive than the third ...

Man thank you so much for the tip !  I almost oredered it from amazon UK at 98 euros when I saw your post. You just saved me 45 euros.  I love this forum so much.

L'ordine sarà spedito a:
...
Francia

Totale ordine:    EUR 55,99

La tua data di consegna prevista è:
giovedì 09 aprile 2015 -
lunedì 13 aprile 2015

Please someone with moderator rights make a sticky post with this info, we could also post the translation for the italian captions so that people can get their order through.

[PA0PBZ]

Just to tease Kjelt:

[Kjelt]

Just to tease Kjelt:

hahaha,
Mine has been shipped also, finally. But if it will arrive before the weekend...........

[PA0PBZ]

Mine has been shipped also, finally. But if it will arrive before the weekend...........

I hope it does!

[Kjelt]

2nd edition silver
3rd edition gold
4th edition: hmmmmmmmmmm

[Smokey]

2nd edition silver
3rd edition gold
4th edition: hmmmmmmmmmm

1st = black...

[timofonic]

4th edition will be released on 2040, it will be a brain implant to make you an EE expert able to build populated PCBs with the power of your mind.


But some components will be outdated and you'll need some extra volumes for all details


Each volume will cost 5000000000qubits, the average monthly salary of an high-end engineer. These days it will be a low wage job, mostly all not very qualified jobs will be automated and done by androids.

[Kjelt]

Just a prediction then, lets see in 25 years
[nerd mode on]
Ah lets use the resistor tolerance color band code than:

1st edition  black  first draft no tolerance
2nd edition silver  10% tolerance
3rd edition  gold     5% tolerance

then the 4rd edition will be red  with 2% tolerance
[nerd mode off]

[Kjelt]

My copy has arrived 
Now I read inside that this is the final! Edition, figures these guys must be getting old.

[Blofeld]

My copy has arrived 
Now I read inside that this is the final! Edition, figures these guys must be getting old.

Hopefully not too old to finish the X-Chapter book, or whatever they may call it.

[Smokey]

My copy has arrived 
Now I read inside that this is the final! Edition, figures these guys must be getting old.

Being dead doesn't stop the publishers from releasing new editions in your name.....

http://www.amazon.com/Shigleys-Mechanical-Engineering-Design-McGraw-Hill/dp/0073398209

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Edward_Shigley&prev=search

(Sorry for the translated Wikipedia page.  Best I could come up with)

[jpb]

I made the trek into Cambridge this morning to buy myself a copy from the CUP bookshop. I get a 20% discount as an ex student, also I like to look at physical copies before buying.

I told the lady at the checkout that I had waited over 35 years (my existing copy is the first edition which came out in 1980) - she smiled nervously and humoured me with a suitably bland remark whilst edging to the security button!

I look forward to actually reading it (I've still not read all the first edition - you can't rush these things!)

[schopi68]

Today i got my copy from Amazon Germany.
Is this normal behaviour for Cambridge University Press? The paper is totally warped. For me this is not acceptable for this price. From what i can see on some other postings it looks as other copys does show this behaviour too?

[jippie]

Received my copy op the bible this afternoon, just in time for Easter.

Today i got my copy from Amazon Germany.
Is this normal behaviour for Cambridge University Press? The paper is totally warped. For me this is not acceptable for this price.

Got mine from Amazon Germany too, the pages are a little bit wobbly too, but not as bad. I thought it'd be caused by the humid weather today and I expect it to flatten under weight.

[schopi68]

Got mine from Amazon Germany too, the pages are a little bit wobbly too, but not as bad. I thought it'd be caused by the humid weather today and I expect it to flatten under weight.

Maybe the paper soaked humidity during oversea shipment too. Why couldn't they shrink-wrap the book before shipment? Terrible to think of about hundreds of brand-new books in this shape for the next decades because of such a shipment error.
I do not think that my version will flatten - even during pressing the book with my whole body weight the amplitude does not change.

[8086]

Got mine today from Amazon UK, the pages are wobbly like above.

I don't care though, it's a reference book not a show piece.

[schopi68]

Got mine today from Amazon UK, the pages are wobbly like above.

I don't care though, it's a reference book not a show piece.

Well, for me it's the same as if i bought a scope from Agilent Keysight and when unpacking there is a big scratch over the front side. Yes, i could work with that - but i payed the full price for a new, not a used item. 

[8086]

Got mine today from Amazon UK, the pages are wobbly like above.

I don't care though, it's a reference book not a show piece.

Well, for me it's the same as if i bought a scope from Agilent Keysight and when unpacking there is a big scratch over the front side. Yes, i could work with that - but i payed the full price for a new, not a used item. 

I would care too if I paid thousands for a scope and it arrived with a big scratch on the front; but I paid £59 for a book and the pages are slightly wavy.

Big deal. 

Plus it is new, not used. Not sure why you said that.

[schopi68]

I would care too if I paid thousands for a scope and it arrived with a big scratch on the front; but I paid £59 for a book and the pages are slightly wavy.

Well, slightly is (for me) different that that. From the hundreds of books i bought during the years i never got any in such a shape - and even books i use frequently for many years do not have a water damage like this one. I can accept that damage if i know that this is the standard for this book or the book is sold with a reduced price. But why accepting bad quality for the same price as others get good quality?

Plus it is new, not used. Not sure why you said that.

I just wanted to express that when i pay the price for a new book i do not want do get a book in the shape of a used one. 

[8086]

I guess I am more forgiving of people's small mistakes. As far as I'm concerned I paid £59 for the content of the book, not for perfectly straight pages. I guess we just value different things in a book.

[schopi68]

Well i can understand your point of view too. If it were a computer book with a half-life period of two years i would completely agree with you. But as more a book becomes a long-time reference it's physical value rises for me.

[Macbeth]

Just checked and mine has the wavy pages when viewed side on too. Not something I noticed before and not something that bothers me in the least. The pages are flat enough on reading. To call it water damage is extreme.

My advice to the perfectionists is to not read it and keep it locked in a safe. It will surely gain much value as, for example, numismatists pay a fortune for coins with early production flaws from the mint.

Consider the rare value of this early production run from the printers. Keep a copy of these posts to add to the authentic provenance that your future antique book is the genuine article. 

[schopi68]

Just checked and mine has the wavy pages when viewed side on too. Not something I noticed before and not something that bothers me in the least. The pages are flat enough on reading. To call it water damage is extreme.

so you're lucky to have a smaller damage. It took me one second to open the book to see and feel the waves (~2mm in Amplitude). I've asked a person who's working in a printing office and he agreed to my first impression that this is likely a water damage. It could also be due to production as book printing isn't a "dry" process.

[Grapsus]

Haha this is becoming so anal, maybe we need to build a paper flatness reference with 5 ppm precision ?

[schopi68]

okay.. i see - production quality is not everyone's cup of tea. 

[mtdoc]

Today i got my copy from Amazon Germany.
Is this normal behaviour for Cambridge University Press? The paper is totally warped. For me this is not acceptable for this price. From what i can see on some other postings it looks as other copys does show this behaviour too?

Looks sinusoidal. Think of it as the carrier wave.

[jpb]

I bought mine from the CUP bookshop in Cambridge and, though I didn't notice it at the time, the pages are slightly wavy from the top (though not from the bottom).

I am very fussy about books and papers and so on (I don't like even folding a newspaper) but I really think this can't be described as "water damage" - it is only noticeable when pointed out.

I'd be much more concerned if the pages looked like they might fall out (as I have found with some other books) but they look to be properly bound.

It is not expensive for a hardbound reference book of over a thousand pages and I suspect it may be an artifact of using lightweight paper to keep the weight (and perhaps cost) down.

Perhaps it was a flaw with the paper prior to printing. The printing doesn't seem to be in any way distorted and there is certainly no staining.

Still it is nice to find some one even more fastidious than I am!

It may be an artifact of the binding process. Running my fingers over the page I can feel that they are slightly bumpy in the vertical direction as well so maybe they use hot glue to bind them which then shrinks a bit and puts the pages under slight compression.

[JackOfVA]

Still waiting on my copy to be delivered - ordered 29 Jan 2015 from Amazon, should be here within the next two weeks.

I've seen the wavy paper artifact on some books manufactured in India -- are the AoE 3rd books delivered in Europe manufactured (printed and bound) in the UK or in another country?

[rolycat]

Still waiting on my copy to be delivered - ordered 29 Jan 2015 from Amazon, should be here within the next two weeks.

I've seen the wavy paper artifact on some books manufactured in India -- are the AoE 3rd books delivered in Europe manufactured (printed and bound) in the UK or in another country?

Printed in the United States of America, just like the second edition.

[Kjelt]

I think if you put a heavy stack of books on top of it during a fourthnight it will probably flatten out.
I myself am reading it.

[tggzzz]

I think if you put a heavy stack of books on top of it during a fourthnight it will probably flatten out.

No need: it weight 2.3kg and is therefore sufficiently heavy to flatten itself  - and anything underneath it when it is dropped.

I expect to see a rash of EEs visiting their doctors - because of upper limb strain developed while trying to hold it in a comfortable reading position.

[LADmachining]

My copy (delivered by Amazon UK on Weds 1st Apr) has the waviness to the pages, although the wavelength is double that shown in the pictures posted previously  by Schopi68.

I'm not sure it will flatten out as the spine is wider than the pages so the hardcover boards only apply pressure to the pages at the free end.

[jpb]

Decided to remove my post on the grounds that though it was meant humorously, on second reading it was a bit sarcastic and I don't want to belittle issues that clearly are of importance to some.

[Docholiday]

My God! This has got out of control of all the things to complain about and to take the time to write about it? Does it really matter in the end? Is the book still readable? We should be more concerned about its errors than about some stupid wavy pages. So, what! The pages are wavy because the book was press printed on thin paper with high moisture content, period. This saves costs to increase profit for the publisher. I pay 300 plus US dollars for each book at school with the same exact issue. By end of the semester the books are flat and waves are gone (well, almost).

Now lts all get back to what is really important and that is Electronics! 

[JoeO]

My God! This has got out of control of all the things to complain about and to take the time to write about it? Does it really matter in the end? Is the book still readable? We should be more concerned about its errors than about some stupid wavy pages. So, what! The pages are wavy because the book was press printed on thin paper with high moisture content, period. This saves costs to increase profit for the publisher. I pay 300 plus US dollars for each book at school with the same exact issue. By end of the semester the books are flat and waves are gone (well, almost).

Now lts all get back to what is really important and that is Electronics! 

If this bothers you, DON"T COME HERE AND READ THIS TOPIC.
What is wrong with you?

[Neganur]

I think you all should stop trying to ridicule people who have different values than you.
How about you agree to disagree instead of harping on about how you don't.

I'd go nuts if Amazon sent me science book (aka north of 80 EUR) and it has a messed up/dented corner due to their terrible packing practices. It is ground for a claim.
Yeah you can't do much about it and you can choose not to bother.

If I treated customer equipment like this at work I can 'put some warm clothes on' as the Germans say.

[schopi68]

This saves costs to increase profit for the publisher.

okay... and you are comfortable with increasing profit to the publisher for... less quality?

As said before: you could even use a scope with a scratch all over its surface. Or you could watch tv with a unsharp and flickering screen. Or buy a brand new car with dents in the bonnet - but would you want to pay the same price for it?

I pay 300 plus US dollars for each book at school with the same exact issue. By end of the semester the books are flat and waves are gone (well, almost).

I do not think that it will flatten out, even under pressure... - see Attachment. No one of the books in this stack has any sign of waviness (but they have a similar paper thickness - i.e. the book right above the Horowitz has 1800 Sides - 3.4mm for 100 pages vs. 3.5mm for 100 pages in the Horowitz -, similar content and a similar price. So it is no excuse to say that the pages are wavy because the book was press printed on thin paper - others are doing this job without waving).

(so, but now i will stop posting to this topic. Everything that i wanted to talk about has been talked about - and i do not want to produce any kind of war here). *LLAP*

[Docholiday]

My, my have I touched a nerve to deserve all CAPS?  Anyway, Neganur I agree with your point I too would be returing it promptly for that type of damage. Everyone should be entitled to state their opinion in whatever form they feel. This is not a repressed society, well at least not completly. The quality of materials used today is appaling! Manufactures continue to strive for increased profits anyway they can. I have books in my library purchased over 30 years ago and still in excellent condition. On the other hand books purchased recently for school and personal are already falling apart where even the pages rip easily. I can only imagine that this book too will suffer also in premature failure compared to its predeeding version. My own belief if a purchase is made and its quality is not to his/her own standards then return it and be done with it. My pet peeve is simply I hate people that whine and carry on like a child. But thats me and everyone has a their own.

It reminds me when Dave reviewed a waveform generator.  Internally, there was rust on the case but he too succumb to this and made it apparent to his viewers. I laughed at this thinking of thousands of these cases out in the open in some Asian country rusting from the rain and then used for its final assembly.

[Docholiday]

Profit for the publisher

No, but it is a fact of life and presently the culture of our society. As for the comparison of scratched scope or out focus screen or dented hood/bonet you are now going from one extreme to another.

I stated my previous post "Is the book still readable?" So, yes I do have an exception.

By end of the semester the books are flat and waves are gone (well, almost).

In in end of the sentence I add "well, almost" that in it self a sarcastic intent implied.

During my practicum for my PHD I was employed by a bindery shop. During a practicum you do not always get paid or very little. So, I had to make end meet thus the bindery job. Working there I learned that when books portrayed this type of condition it was due to the quality of the paper, mositure content, and bad processing practices. Anyone or all of those affect the book(s) quality.

So, in closing rather than focus your anger or hostility towards me. How about you express you dis-satisfaction to the publisher. If everybody does this maybe then soemthing positive could happen?

I did my part and wrote to them. Now if I get a reply? Perhaps I shall win the lottery first!

[schopi68]

Well, it looks as if i have to do one more post.   

So, in closing rather than focus your anger or hostility towards me. How about you express you dis-satisfaction to the publisher. If everybody does this maybe then soemthing positive could happen?

I did my part and wrote to them. Now if I get a reply? Perhaps I shall win the lottery first!

I've already reported the issue to the seller. But you're right, contacting the publisher directly might be a good idea too. My posting here in the forum wasn't because i wanted to cry about the issue - i just wanted to exchange information with others to see if it is worthy to ask for a replacement book or if this error affects the entire print run.

And now lets free this place to start talking about the content.

[Docholiday]

Hey Schopi68,

It was not just you and I am sorry if my posting singled you out. Please accept my apology as it was not my intent to do that specifically towards you.

Sincerely,

Nicholas

[Blofeld]

Still waiting on my copy to be delivered - ordered 29 Jan 2015 from Amazon, should be here within the next two weeks.

I've seen the wavy paper artifact on some books manufactured in India -- are the AoE 3rd books delivered in Europe manufactured (printed and bound) in the UK or in another country?

Printed in the United States of America, just like the second edition.

So it is printed in the USA, but we in Europe recieve it first? Of course I'm not complaining, but it seems strange und unfair. And if I were an US citizen I would probably start to riot now.

[SeanB]

Printed in the USA can be a book actually printed in India, then shipped to the USA for the final collation, binding and trimming. Then, due to the vagrancies of the book cartels, it might be released in Europe before the US orders are filled. The whole thing might have been done on an Indian press, or even in Dubai or even South Africa, depending on which press was going to be free for the volume and which was cheapest with freight of the final product. Might even have been printed in Canada. Only way would be to look for the press added QC characters and batch number, which will be inside on the copyright page as a code at the bottom, or inside the cover on a hard bound version.

[jpb]

So it is printed in the USA, but we in Europe recieve it first? Of course I'm not complaining, but it seems strange und unfair. And if I were an US citizen I would probably start to riot now.

This may be because CUP is a UK publisher even though they now have a presence in the USA - perhaps there is some ancient decree that they release books in the UK/EU first.

[tcleavela]

This phenomenon is called "fluting" and is the product of the printing process and humidity levels around the book. I found several informative posts:

http://www.printindustry.com/Newsletters/Newsletter-38.aspx
http://www.printindustry.com/blog/?p=1175
https://prodpi.zendesk.com/hc/communities/public/questions/201991340-Why-are-the-pages-of-my-book-wavy-and-warped-

The last one implies that the problem may correct itself to some extent.

[4cx10000]

Thought the best cure was to put heavy pressure on the book, but luckily, after reading one of the articles, that is not a good way to do it. I saw my self, with a big smile on my lips, putting the book very gently in our 100 tons hydraulic press at work   

[schopi68]

The last one implies that the problem may correct itself to some extent.

"but it normally doesn't take more than 5-7 business days for the paper to relax and flatten."

Well... my copy didn't change in any visible manner during the last 5 days.

Looks as there are several things that can be done against fluting during the printing process. But i don't think that my book has this fluting. They define fluting as waves in grain direction. My book copy has waves on all three outer sides (so in grain direction and right angled to it).

http://www.sappi.com/regions/sa/SupportAndSponsorships/Knowledge%20bank/Technical%20tips1/Cause%20and%20effects%20of%20Fluting%20in%20Heatset%20webprinting.pdf

[tcleavela]

So it's more like the book in the picture at this link? http://www.librarything.com/topic/106840. If so maybe one of the responses there will help. Good luck.

[guscrown]

So many reviews about the wavy paper, but nothing yet on content 

I just ordered mine through Amazon with a copy of "Circuit Designer's Companion (3rd Edition)". 

The company is paying for them so I went loco. 

[Docholiday]

What do you think of circuit designers companion?

[Smokey]

What do you think of circuit designers companion?

I ordered my "Circuit Designers Companion" from Russia a while ago but she hasn't gotten here yet.  I'll let you know when she arrives. 

[Grapsus]

I just buy it on amazon Italy for € 48 ($ 51). It seems that prices are falling, but versions of the second edition are more expensive than the third ...

Man thank you so much for the tip !  I almost oredered it from amazon UK at 98 euros when I saw your post. You just saved me 45 euros.  I love this forum so much.

L'ordine sarà spedito a:
...
Francia

Totale ordine:    EUR 55,99

La tua data di consegna prevista è:
giovedì 09 aprile 2015 -
lunedì 13 aprile 2015

Please someone with moderator rights make a sticky post with this info, we could also post the translation for the italian captions so that people can get their order through.

Wow, it was excpected to arrive by the end of the week, but I just got it early this morning, this is spectacular

[JackOfVA]

Ordered in late January from Amazon, arrived today.

Paper is perfectly flat, and although thin paper and small type is used, the book is perfectly readable. 

A very quick flip through it shows that it's well worth the price. (Think I paid around US$ 85-90).

[ManicMaurice]

I'm waiting for the Kindle edition. No fluting.

[Smokey]

I'm waiting for the Kindle edition. No fluting.

[ManicMaurice]

My dreams are crushed. 

[Barny]

There is the line "... from 20m .... " missing. 

[timb]

My dreams are crushed. 

So is that Kindle!


Sent from my Tablet

[Mike04082015]

Well that was informative 
I hate Stanley Kubrick.

Do you also hate Richard Strauss?

[lightman]

Dave, hello
I want one!, i check in your amazon link but it is not there, only the second edition, i wan't to buy it,  any idea how?

I live in south america but have a friend in the US that can receive it, and send it to me later on.

thank you
Light

[michael.hill]

Just got my preordered copy today and have been reading through it. Does everyone else's copy have several references to a "Chapter 1x"? It seems like they meant to go back and change the reference later, but never got around to it. I've seen it several times now. Pages 2 (footnote 4), 4, 5 (end of gray box on resistors), and 20. There are probably more, but I'm just on page 20.

[tggzzz]

Just got my preordered copy today and have been reading through it. Does everyone else's copy have several references to a "Chapter 1x"? It seems like they meant to go back and change the reference later, but never got around to it. I've seen it several times now. Pages 2 (footnote 4), 4, 5 (end of gray box on resistors), and 20. There are probably more, but I'm just on page 20.

Read the preface to the third edition.

[Dave]

Did anyone else order their book from Book Depository?
I received an email saying that they sent it on March 28th and that shipping to European countries takes 4-8 business days, so it should already be here.
Anyone else experiencing the same problem?

[mtdoc]

Did anyone else order their book from Book Depository?
I received an email saying that they sent it on March 28th and that shipping to European countries takes 4-8 business days, so it should already be here.
Anyone else experiencing the same problem?

No problem with my order from them. Arrived about 7 business days after "dispatch"

[edavid]

Did anyone else order their book from Book Depository?
I received an email saying that they sent it on March 28th and that shipping to European countries takes 4-8 business days, so it should already be here.
Anyone else experiencing the same problem?

Yes... I'm in the US, and it's supposed to take 5-8 business days, and is overdue...

ETA: my copy was shipped from England on 3/28, and delivered on 4/16, so I guess they are very optimistic about delivery time.

[warp_foo]

Did anyone else order their book from Book Depository?
I received an email saying that they sent it on March 28th and that shipping to European countries takes 4-8 business days, so it should already be here.
Anyone else experiencing the same problem?

Yes... I'm in the US, and it's supposed to take 5-8 business days, and is overdue...

Same here.

[Blofeld]

Just got my preordered copy today and have been reading through it. Does everyone else's copy have several references to a "Chapter 1x"? It seems like they meant to go back and change the reference later, but never got around to it. I've seen it several times now. Pages 2 (footnote 4), 4, 5 (end of gray box on resistors), and 20. There are probably more, but I'm just on page 20.

The same is true for chapters 2, 3, 4 and 9. The "x" refers to an upcoming book with advanced material. The really bad news is, that we will have to wait several years for it. I have written about it in my review (at the bottom of the page):

http://www.wisewarthog.com/electronics/horowitz-hill-the-art-of-electronics-3rd-edition.html

[GK]

Well that was informative 
I hate Stanley Kubrick.

Do you also hate Richard Strauss?

I hate everything.

[RetroDan™]

I hate everything.

Something tells me that you're this guy.



Also, I laughed my ass off at the 'We're not worthy' bit.

[MarkL]

Heads up for anyone who pre-ordered from Amazon US.  I ordered mine in January for $108 and yesterday I got an automatic refund because other sellers are offering a lower price.

Make sure you get your refund if you didn't already.

From: "Amazon.com Customer Service" <cust.service03@amazon.com>
Subject: Your savings from Amazon.com (order #xxx)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:49:48 +0000

Greetings from Amazon.com.

You saved $30.70 with Amazon.com's Pre-order Price Guarantee!

The price of the item(s) decreased after you ordered them, and we gave you the lowest price.

The following title(s) decreased in price:

The Art of Electronics
              Price on order date: $108.00
        Price charged at shipping: $77.30
 Lowest price before release date: $77.30
                         Quantity: 1
                    Total Savings: $30.70           

$30.70 is your total savings under our Pre-order Price Guarantee.

[Smokey]

I didn't get any "refund" emails, but the final price was 77.30 USD when it shipped even though it was 108 when I pre-ordered too.  I think that's an automatic thing, and it's based on the lowest price since you pre-ordered so if the 77.30 price was before your pre-order it might still be more as the final price.

[MarkL]

Ah, you're right.  Checked my credit card statement and they only charged me the final price of $77.30.

[houdini]

Hmm any idea when you had to pre-order for that price?  I think i pre-ordered a few weeks ago but it went through at 108 even though they seem to be $77 right now.

[MarkL]

Hmm any idea when you had to pre-order for that price?  I think i pre-ordered a few weeks ago but it went through at 108 even though they seem to be $77 right now.

I pre-ordered in January at the $108 price.

[Smokey]

Just arrived.

I am SOOO glad there is no dust jacket for the 3rd edition.

[Kohanbash]

Funny that they wrote that this will be the final version of this book.

[hikariuk]

Mine went through at £46.13 (I put the order on Amazon back in January).

[RetroDan™]

Funny that they wrote that this will be the final version of this book.

Just ordered my copy. 

Why are they saying that the third edition will be the final one?  I mean, sure, it's been around since 1980 (I think that was the first edition), and 35 years is a long time to be updating the same book, but technology advances steadily.

[Kjelt]

Why are they saying that the third edition will be the final one?

They are probably retiring? 

[Kohanbash]

Funny that they wrote that this will be the final version of this book.

Just ordered my copy. 

Why are they saying that the third edition will be the final one?  I mean, sure, it's been around since 1980 (I think that was the first edition), and 35 years is a long time to be updating the same book, but technology advances steadily.

It is not surprising that they are thinking that. I was surprised they wrote that in the forward for the third edition. With that said they are still planning on writing another book with the chapters they had to leave out as well as a student lab book.

[Tallie]

FYI do not order from Amazon seller ---SuperBookDeals. I placed an order on the 12th at a price of $77 + S&H. Today, I received a notice that my order has been canceled due to the book being "out of stock". Upon visiting their seller store today, I see that the book is still listed as in stock, but the price has gone up $20. Very unscrupulous seller -- unwilling to honor a sale having already taken my money.

[Warhawk]

Finally got mine from local distributor. I am wondering how many of these are in the country. 

[bitwelder]

In their latest 'Ask an Engineer' show, Adafruit showed their signed copy of all three editions of AoE (and also a copy of the 'edition 0' manuscript):



a quite exclusive gift from the author:



and they announced that soon will post a 45-minutes interview with Horowitz. Should be interesting.

[con-f-use]

I'm very surprised that nobody scanned their 3rd edition and did some OCR on it.

[TheWelly888]

^^^
All 1100 odd pages? For what?

No way!

[con-f-use]

Well people have scanned the old book and it hasn't been to much work for them.

It's really simple actually,  you just have to sacrifice one. Take the binding apart, but the staple of paper in a modern office copier and wait till it sends you the scanned pdf. Will take a few days, but no manpower required. We do it at work for old physics books. Many are not sold any more but we want to preserve them (for gems like "The enigmatic cathode radiation..." and "...the two forms of energy, one proportional to the speed, and one to its square...").

[McBryce]

In many countries that would be illegal.

McBryce.

[Ice-Tea]

I'm very surprised that nobody scanned and their 3rd edition and did some OCR on it.

Maybe they have respect for the author or something silly like that...

[Macbeth]

I've got an ADF scanner, double sided 50 sheets at a time. I guess I could sacrifice my copy and toil over the scanner for hours for the greater good of piratekind.

I mean, come on, Horowitz & Hill are up to their eyeballs in coke and hookers, laughing at all the hard-earned from us nerds while they cruise the world on their luxury yachts. Cambridge University Press are rolling in it too, the snobby elitist fascists they are.

Just tell me when, con-f-use, and I'll take an unpaid day off work for you and all our comrades. We can overthrow the capitalist pigs if we all make a little sacrifice 

[con-f-use]

I didn't say I condone piracy (although I mostly do, thinking society could be re-organized  to have an incentive other than money - freedom of knowledge, age of technology with enough for everyone and no need for as much menial labour and all this neo-socialist crap - why artificially make something sparse, that can be copied effortlessly? But that is another discussion and would require substantial change). No, I own a copy myself. What I said is, I was surprised there isn't a torrent. You can download so many science books, hell, even crappy World of Warcraft fiction. Prior to my AoE3 purchase, I wasn't sure, if I wanted to spend the money. It's a substantial amount for a book, me being on a PhD income. Plus my university will buy it for the library soon. Would have helped to look through the book online to see if it's worth it (to me) and it is.

In our present age of technology, you wouldn't have to take a day off work, provided you have access to the proper machine (as I said). I suspect Horowitz and Hill aren't exactly starving ether. If they were, I'd be happy to donate some money to them. I also suspect, they didn't go into academia for bitches and money.

[hikariuk]

In our present age of technology, you wouldn't have to take a day off work, provided you have access to the proper machine (as I said). I suspect Horowitz and Hill aren't exactly starving ether. If they were, I'd be happy to donate some money to them. I also suspect, they didn't go into academia for bitches and money.

The average pay for a professor at Harvard is around $200k, fwiw.  Although that's entirely besides the point - creators of work should be compensated for said work, regardless of what kind of work it is.  There is more than one way of compensating someone though, but it has to be something they agree to.

[aoe_pdf]

 There was a digital file (aka "pdf" or whatever,...) of this Book, long before it was pulp-n-paper'd from a bunch of tree's.

ok, so, if I have to pay +$100 for this book, which I don't mind although it is overly expensive, then at least give me a "pdf" version,
 for obvious CONVENIENCE reasons ?!
 Or, since GREED is the ONLY thing that drives even Educational Instituions today, then fine, can you please sell me an "e"-version of this Book Please?  I'll even pay triple for it, instead of a bunch of hardcopy papers !
I mean,..., 

 It's pathetic that they don't.

[tggzzz]

There was a digital file (aka "pdf" or whatever,...) of this Book, long before it was pulp-n-paper'd from a bunch of tree's.

ok, so, if I have to pay +$100 for this book, which I don't mind although it is overly expensive, then at least give me a "pdf" version,
 for obvious CONVENIENCE reasons ?!
 Or, since GREED is the ONLY thing that drives even Educational Instituions today, then fine, can you please sell me an "e"-version of this Book Please?  I'll even pay triple for it, instead of a bunch of hardcopy papers !
I mean,..., 

 It's pathetic that they don't.

I have no reason to doubt that you would pay $100 for a PDF. But that's not the problem, is it!

[aoe_pdf]

I have no reason to doubt that you would pay $100 for a PDF. But that's not the problem, is it!

 yes, some people will no doubt torrent it, but that doesn't stop iTunes, Linnrecords, Ponomusic, HDTracks, ... and a thousand others from $elling Music files,..., nobody I know buys Audio-CD's anymore, hollywood will be the last old corrupt fortress to fall, plus almost every other book on the planet is downloadable.

 Modern AOE, sold only from the Dark Ages, how wonderful.

[aoe_pdf]

I have no reason to doubt that you would pay $100 for a PDF. But that's not the problem, is it!

...anyway, thanks for the quick reply.
 nice blog here 

[c4757p]

Having never stopped using paper myself, it's always bizarre to me when someone gets his panties in a twist over the lack of an electronic version of something. You can use the paper book dude, we all manage as we have for a very long time...

[aoe_pdf]

Having never stopped using paper myself, it's always bizarre to me when someone gets his panties in a twist over the lack of an electronic version of something. You can use the paper book dude, we all manage as we have for a very long time...

 I like to curl up into my mind with a paper-book too, when I need to study or focus on specific problems, and I'm open-minded.
 But when the light comes on, within a bigger inter-twined project, and I need to continually multi-reference many docs/schematics/.... I like to have them all readily available in multiple windows. but that's the difference,
your photographic-memory is better than mine, since I tend to always have to re-understand some things...?

 I don't teach, I just try to do things as efficiently as i can, different strokes for different folks, as they say.
 

[con-f-use]

Both have their merits. Less distraction, easier on the eyes, no charging, ... for paper. Easier transport of many, lighter, less space, text-search for eBooks. I'd love to have an electronic version of the 3rd edition.

[RupertGo]

I have to scan in books now anyway, due to failing eyesight, although I more often buy Kindle editions where available. As I read a lot of out-of-print or pre-Kindle stuff, that's often not an option. On the upside, the British Library (among others) now allows photography of books, and I've got quite an efficient JPG->OCR pipeline set up, so it is getting easier and more legal.

As for this being the last edition of H&H, I'm not surprised. Analogue electronics hasn't changed much since 1980, the same techniques are just as valid and while areas like RF have progressed enormously they're specialisms. And all the digital advances have taken place within chips, again a specialist area, with software taking over more and more of analogue's domain. I'm sure that H&H will continue to be an essential work for engineers, but I think it's evolved to where it needs to be.

[timofonic]

I have hopes for Learning the Art of Electronics.

They should sell a digital version and a companion app for Windows/Linux/Android/iOS/WP with tons of tests, stuff found in apps such as Electrodroid/ElectroBuddy/KarnMap/Morgana/Droid Circuit Calc/Electronics Toolbox/Secuential Circuits/MOS Circuit/Electro Quiz

- Games: Electronic Jam, Electronic Memory symbols, HexToBinary Practice, Binary Sudoku, Binary Practice, Binary Challenge, Cisco Binary Game, Binairo Solver, Bimoxxo, The Binary Game, Circuit Breakers, DC Run and others are a good start. They could make learning easier for novices.

[T3sl4co1l]

"aoe_pdf"

Some throwaway account you have there... you wouldn't be brave enough to give out a real e-mail address or something, would'ja?

Tim

[nowlan]

Book Depository has 10% off via booko.com.au for 3 days; brings AoE v3 down to $95au.
Book Depository    $95.62    $0.00    Available - dispatched in 1 business day    $95.62

[Muxr]

I definitely prefer the electronic versions as well. If I really must I will read a paper edition, but I much prefer the ebook.

When I travel for work I am not lugging books with me, especially not something as big as TAOE. And this is when I do most of my reading (on the plane or airport). My backpack is already loaded as it is. Before bed reading doesn't require light since the tablet is backlit, and I can even read it on my phone. For technical books, it makes even more sense since as a quick reference ctrl+f beats manually searching the index in hope you will find the page you were looking for.

I understand the piracy is a concern, but for convenience ebooks are amazing.

Needless to say I didn't get the AOE 3rd edition (I have the 2nd edition on my Kindle). I will get it once it's available in electronic format.

[dadler]

I finally gave in and bought the 3rd edition in tree-form, and thought I could convince myself to actually read a paper book.

I forgot exactly how heavy a giant hardback book such as this is. Further, I can't easily read it in bed because its backlight seems sub-par compared to my iPad. I just can't find a comfortable way to hold and read this massive, bulky book.

Maybe someone will scan it and the scan will accidentally end up on my tablet in PDF format. I already paid for the book, so I think my guilt-o-meter would read near zero.

[apis]

Although that's entirely besides the point - creators of work should be compensated for said work, regardless of what kind of work it is.  There is more than one way of compensating someone though, but it has to be something they agree to.

What's frustrating is that we are stuck with a legal system that might have made sense 200 years ago but today when it's possible to create perfect copies and distribute them around the world for more or less free, copyright just seems incredibly stupid. But we are stuck with it (and dead tree books) because there are too many who has to much invested in it and who are making to much money from it for it to change. Question is how long the Luddites of our time will be able to halt technological progress.

[Kjelt]

and dead tree books

Which are a great environmental gift. The tree during its life has absorbed huge amounts of CO2 and generated huge amounts of O2 while storing the Carbon in its fibers that generate the paper.
As long as it is not burned its a good storage place for that carbon, way better than the energy necessay to keep ebooks online.

[con-f-use]

Sorry, but that's entirely up to how the energy is generated. You can do it like tree's and get your energy from the sun.

Carbon can be stored in almost infinite forms. And of course cutting threes, making them into paper, binding and inking those papers doesn't cost energy. Even if you couldn't store a million books on one ebook reader rather than having the process of making a book duplicated for every single book owner.

There's no way around it: people have legitimate use cases for an AoE ebook and it should be thing. Saying I prefer a real book is like saying, I prefer walking and therefore stuff shouln't be delivered by trucks.

[ralphrmartin]

I've just been refused access to http://artofelectronics.net by my ISP on the grounds that it contains malware. Anyone else had this issue? Report is here:

https://www.virustotal.com/en/url/db04d659d057cb64cd7e7c2c588785b8efcc9a84b8ed1aef1e6204db04355f48/analysis/1436259685/

[ElektroQuark]

Working fine here. Virus and malware scanner doesn't complain.

[PA0PBZ]

No problem here either, and also not from http://urlquery.net/report.php?id=1436279553984

[ralphrmartin]

ISP has now given the site an all clear. A false alarm...

[jipihorn]

Reading Flim-Flam from James Randi, I came across this :

Another test consisted of hanging ordinary latchkeys from electrical leads terminating in embedded strain gauges to test for bending by paranormal influence. Inglis said these tests were conducted in the homes of the psychics, at their leisure. Children were the subjects, "tests were deliberately kept as informal as possible... and the subject was encouraged to do his own thing (making aircraft models) to pass the time."
Rather detailed accounts given by Hasted of the conditions of some experiments led me to suspect that the sharp "spike" tracings he got on his chart recorder connected to the electronic circuitry might be due to static electricity, not paranormal influence. He said the subject squirmed about and held his hands out to the dangling key occasionally, whereupon a result was recorded on the chart. But the very sharp spike is typical of a static discharge registration, so I sent off the circuit diagrams, which were kindly supplied by Professor Hasted, to Dr. Paul Horowitz of Harvard University for comments.
Dr. Horowitz replied, "You are, of course, right in your interpretation... If that 'experiment' convinces anyone of anything, then they typify the utmost in gullibility. What's happening is that common-mode [extraneous] signals, not being rejected owing to a disastrous choice of amplifier configurations, are driving the subsequent amplifiers into nonlinearities. This is a classic problem with strain gauges, since the genuine (normal-mode) signal is typically very small... [It would be] better for Hasted to do the thing right, which means, among other things, to use one of those channels to display the common-mode signal, while the rest are busy displaying normal-mode signals. The absence of such a channel shows that he hasn't been careful, and effectively nullifies any result he claims.... All data that emerge from that apparatus are worthless, and will continue to be, until the amplifiers are replaced with [proper] instrumentation amplifiers with satisfactory, common-mode rejection. [Hasted] has plenty to do before anyone even mildly critical will believe him.".
Dr. Horowitz has just completed a book on electronics. The book discusses the considerable problems inherent in the use of strain gauges, and the specific sensitivity of the Hasted circuit to extraneous signals—such as static charges generated by squirming little boys—is documented.

I propose that the "Horowitz" become the official badassery unit, named Ho. It is like the Farad, which is a huge unit on itself, so regular people would be in the range of uHo, nHo, pHo, more rarely mHo. fHo is more adapted for some specific environments (ministries, top management...)

But it wouldn't be fair to ignore the "Hill" unit, the Hi. The Ho is to the Siemens what the Hi is to the mho (don't get mho and mHo mixed up !), i.e pretty much the same thing.

They deserve this.

Jérôme.

[Macbeth]

Never knew there was a Randi Ho partnership

(...and thanks for reminding me I should get some James Randi reading material. I'm surprised I don't have any as I'm a fan!)

[TomC]

I love my copy of AoE, but like others on this thread, I strongly think that this book would work much better if it was a PDF or an eBook.

For one thing, there are more than a hundred figures in every chapter, and every page refers the reader to figures, tables, or sections that are on a different page, often a different chapter. This becomes even more apparent in the Chapter Review sections, where it seems that every other sentence refers you to a figure elsewhere.

With a paper copy it's nearly impossible to take advantage of this extensive cross referencing without wearing your fingers to the bone and ripping a few pages in the process. It would be wonderful to just click on a link to make these figures, tables, or sections instantly and magically available!

[Fungus]

With a paper copy it's nearly impossible to take advantage of this extensive cross referencing without wearing your fingers to the bone and ripping a few pages in the process. It would be wonderful to just click on a link to make these figures, tables, or sections instantly and magically available!

The trick is to get two (or three) copies and use them in parallel.

[timofonic]

With a paper copy it's nearly impossible to take advantage of this extensive cross referencing without wearing your fingers to the bone and ripping a few pages in the process. It would be wonderful to just click on a link to make these figures, tables, or sections instantly and magically available!

The trick is to get two (or three) copies and use them in parallel.

...and reading it while being in your boat, right?

[Vrizla]

After saving my pennies my copy arrived today from WebStore2012 ordered from Amazon.  I didn't pay for a shipping upgrade, they could have sent int in a box vie media mail for about $2; yet they chose to shove it in a USPS Flat rate Envelope.  Not the padded one that about 25 cents extra, the half a mm envelope thats just about only good for mailing a few sheets of paper.  I use to sell on Amazon and I have sold quite a few items on ebay; quality, service, fast shipping and my reputation has always been paramount,  Large sellers just don't care nor does Amazon or ebay; Amazon is going to make twice the  money selling it twice as used, since their is not a significant difference in price. 

The completely unexceptionable damage aside, I must say I am a little disappointed with the quality of paper and ink.  No there aren't color photographs, but for the price I expected paper that wasn't see through in low light.  I documented WebStore2012's complete negligence reported it to them and just wanted to  quickly pass on the info and get down to reading. 

I don't even want to think about the negative aspects of the entire situation anymore today.  Tomorrow I will open the almost certain automated reply from webcrap2012; bypass them and go straight to Amazon. 

Unfortunately in 2015 the cost of everything is up, I don't know the ins and outs of the publishing deal so I'm not going to speculate,  I'm just going to read my tattered copy and insist a new one is sent before I return the old.  I'm not accepting anything else and I shall remain happy as a clam just having a physical copy, 

[steverino]

I love my copy of AoE, but like others on this thread, I strongly think that this book would work much better if it was a PDF or an eBook.

For one thing, there are more than a hundred figures in every chapter, and every page refers the reader to figures, tables, or sections that are on a different page, often a different chapter. This becomes even more apparent in the Chapter Review sections, where it seems that every other sentence refers you to a figure elsewhere.

With a paper copy it's nearly impossible to take advantage of this extensive cross referencing without wearing your fingers to the bone and ripping a few pages in the process. It would be wonderful to just click on a link to make these figures, tables, or sections instantly and magically available!

The fact is that the book either is now or will be in pdf format in the near future.  It won't be legal but it will be available.  I have AoE II in pdf format and hardcover.  AoE III in hardcover only. Since technical bookstores have gone by the wayside, I always look for a pdf version to browse before I purchase.  Also, for a purchased book, a pdf is a great addition for searching or cafe browsing.

[Macbeth]

The PDF version of AoE 2 out in the wild is absolute rubbish though - it's been subject to really crap OCR. There is a much more verbatim copy out there too, but it's in some funny format, very large, and not compatible with bookreaders like Nook and Kindle.

[steverino]

The PDF version of AoE 2 out in the wild is absolute rubbish though - it's been subject to really crap OCR. There is a much more verbatim copy out there too, but it's in some funny format, very large, and not compatible with bookreaders like Nook and Kindle.

I just checked, and yeah, its not the best but not terrible (reading wise).  I ran my own OCR (I have an version of Adobe Acrobat PRO) and it searches fine.

[Vrizla]

The PDF version of AoE 2 out in the wild is absolute rubbish though - it's been subject to really crap OCR. There is a much more verbatim copy out there too, but it's in some funny format, very large, and not compatible with bookreaders like Nook and Kindle.

I have two of the 2nd, both in PDF format; one of them is missing the first chapter.  I believe the one that is missing the first chapter is of better reading quality; I can't say for sure as they are tucked away.  Since I have legitimately purchased the 3rd and 2nd editions, I feel I have paid my fair share; others are free to disagree.

[DimitriP]

Although that's entirely besides the point - creators of work should be compensated for said work, regardless of what kind of work it is.  There is more than one way of compensating someone though, but it has to be something they agree to.

What's frustrating is that we are stuck with a legal system that might have made sense 200 years ago but today when it's possible to create perfect copies and distribute them around the world for more or less free, copyright just seems incredibly stupid. But we are stuck with it (and dead tree books) because there are too many who has to much invested in it and who are making to much money from it for it to change. Question is how long the Luddites of our time will be able to halt technological progress.

At least  we are stuck with a legal system that still makes sense since 200 years ago especially when  today it's possible to create perfect copies and distribute them around the world for more or less free, copyright is the last legast stop to having ones work distributed for free
But we have stuck with it (and dead tree books) because there are too many people that still recognize the value and are able to make money from it.
Question is how long before all this technological progress  puts a stop to authors writing books.

Gotta love technology....most of the work was already done ...

[con-f-use]

Question is how long the Luddites of our time will be able to halt technological progress.

Well, the best model so far is something like Kickstarter. You want another book by G.R.R. Martin? Then fund him for a year (or in his case ten) and he will make it. After another year where all the backers can read and feel superior for getting it early, it is released for free to the general public.

People will never stop being creative anyway. With automatisation replacing much of human labour and things like birth control, we simply have the opportunity to give every human being on this planet a simple life with four walls, running water, warmth, food, health care and entertainment to not worry. I think every one deserves that. Of course we also give dictators the opportunity to control large amounts of people fairly easily without the possibility of an uprising. it's not that there are no solutions, just that people have not caught up and made up their minds on what they want.

[McBryce]

Well, worked my way tru the book, and damd, still dont know who the murderer was!

It was over-voltage and heat was his accomplice.

McBryce.

[Gixy]

Just one more thing Dr Short-circuit...

[Kohanbash]

I must say I am a little disappointed with the quality of paper and ink.  No there aren't color photographs, but for the price I expected paper that wasn't see through in low light.

Imagine how thick the book would be if a thicker paper was used...

[ales22]

I buyed AoE 2nd edition hard cover for 6 USD few days before, from local second hand books seller. But the book is in "new" condition, probably never used.   

[casinada]

Just to bump this thread 
Learning The Art of Electronics 3rd edition can be pre-ordered now.
http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/physics/electronics-physicists/learning-art-electronics-hands-lab-course?format=PB#bookPeople
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0521177235/ref=s9_newr_gw_d0_g14_i5?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-3&pf_rd_r=1SS4WY1YM54W7PXRS35K&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2084660942&pf_rd_i=desktop

[Smokey]

Just to bump this thread 
Learning The Art of Electronics 3rd edition can be pre-ordered now.
...

So based on previous experience... it should be ready, what... 30 years from now?

[casinada]

April 22, 2016 

[Smokey]

How much money are you willing to bet?  $75 maybe? 

[Cerebus]

It may be an artifact of the binding process. Running my fingers over the page I can feel that they are slightly bumpy in the vertical direction as well so maybe they use hot glue to bind them which then shrinks a bit and puts the pages under slight compression.

Just catching up on some back reading here and I thought I'd clarify this.

You're completely right. Sadly what passes as a 'hardback' book nowadays is actually constructed just like a paperback but with some cardboard slapped around the outside. Instead of a proper, stitched spine using folded sections the back edges are cut and glued in what is known as a "perfect binding" and if you're lucky a strip of cloth gets added along with the glue which may be hot melt or may be a thick aqueous paste that's very similar to PVA/Elmers/White* glue.

In a few years hard use the glued construction collapses completely, whereas there are traditional stitched spine books around that are hundreds of years old and are still servicable. The glued construction is *much* cheaper to make than the traditional stitched construction, sadly this isn't reflected in the premium price the customer typically pays for a hardback edition versus a paperback edition.

*Or whatever you call PVA emulsion where you come from.

[Paul Horowitz]

A note from the co-author: We've recently learned that there are *counterfeits* abroad in the land (we're shocked, shocked!).
They make nice collector pieces, but, hey, not a good deal if you want the Real Thing.
Some folks who bought "new" copies on Amazon (marketplace seller) recently, priced suspiciously low, have reported some amusing errors (and crappy bindings), for example ligatures (lingo for pairs like fi, ffi, fl) not rendering; so my co-author Winfield has lost a piece of his soul, right on the title page, becoming "Wineld" (and analogous weirdnesses with "filter" in the Table of Contents, etc.).
Paul

[nanofrog]

That didn't take them long.   

[Dino KL0S]

After unwrapping my copy under the tree this morning and seeing this note I just had to peak at the title page - phew, name spelled correctly, guess I got the real thing!  (from Amazon BTW) 

[PA0PBZ]

Some folks who bought "new" copies on Amazon (marketplace seller) recently, priced suspiciously low, have reported some amusing errors (and crappy bindings), for example ligatures (lingo for pairs like fi, ffi, fl) not rendering; so my co-author Winfield has lost a piece of his soul, right on the title page, becoming "Wineld" (and analogous weirdnesses with "filter" in the Table of Contents, etc.).
Paul

Yeah, cheap OCR software I guess    Luckily my copy is genuine!

[Macbeth]

At first I was surprised they even bothered to OCR rather than just "xerox" it. Why go to that extra effort?

But of course they may have then had it "professionally" typeset and mass published which would explain the OCR.

Well we now know there is a (crappy) digital version out there that is not kept out of the public domain by the original authors/publishers alone.

Of course the fraudsters will not release this as it would affect their own criminal sales and so they will hold onto the fruits of all the "hard work" they did copying the original like grim death...

So anyone looking for a .epub or .pdf version will be left wanting... 

...and you can all sing for my personally digitized version!

[TomC]

...and you can all sing for my personally digitized version!

More details please!

Does it have links to all the figures, sections and references ... like the  one I dream about?

[Macbeth]

More details please!

Does it have links to all the figures, sections and references ... like the  one I dream about?

But of course. There would be no point digitizing it all and OCR and then correcting it, applying the errata and making all the diagrams nice and hi resolution and fit so perfectly otherwise.

A lot of hard work, hence why I will keep it to myself thank you very much. 

[TomC]

But of course. There would be no point digitizing it all and OCR and then correcting it, applying the errata and making all the diagrams nice and hi resolution and fit so perfectly otherwise.

A lot of hard work, hence why I will keep it to myself thank you very much. 

Thanks Macbeth,

It's refreshing to find others that go to extreme lengths to get things to work exactly the way they want them to!

For a while I thought that I may be the only nut that would consider taking on an elaborate task of this magnitude to produce a single copy for myself!

Including references to other books and publications!

[timofonic]

After saving my pennies my copy arrived today from WebStore2012 ordered from Amazon.  I didn't pay for a shipping upgrade, they could have sent int in a box vie media mail for about $2; yet they chose to shove it in a USPS Flat rate Envelope.  Not the padded one that about 25 cents extra, the half a mm envelope thats just about only good for mailing a few sheets of paper.  I use to sell on Amazon and I have sold quite a few items on ebay; quality, service, fast shipping and my reputation has always been paramount,  Large sellers just don't care nor does Amazon or ebay; Amazon is going to make twice the  money selling it twice as used, since their is not a significant difference in price. 

The completely unexceptionable damage aside, I must say I am a little disappointed with the quality of paper and ink.  No there aren't color photographs, but for the price I expected paper that wasn't see through in low light.  I documented WebStore2012's complete negligence reported it to them and just wanted to  quickly pass on the info and get down to reading. 

I don't even want to think about the negative aspects of the entire situation anymore today.  Tomorrow I will open the almost certain automated reply from webcrap2012; bypass them and go straight to Amazon. 

Unfortunately in 2015 the cost of everything is up, I don't know the ins and outs of the publishing deal so I'm not going to speculate,  I'm just going to read my tattered copy and insist a new one is sent before I return the old.  I'm not accepting anything else and I shall remain happy as a clam just having a physical copy,

Hey...

I'm sorry to say it, but you all have to much free time.

Proofread 1200 pages and remake each figure by one person? You all are lying to me or seriously have and extreme form of OCD and Asperger. Nothing wrong about that, but I highly doubt you could remake that big book in that obsessive way by yourself.

They used an entire team of Indians for that. Yes, your precious expensive book is made thanks to cheap labor from third world.

Of course, I put this to be read by the original authors too.
 

But of course. There would be no point digitizing it all and OCR and then correcting it, applying the errata and making all the diagrams nice and hi resolution and fit so perfectly otherwise.

A lot of hard work, hence why I will keep it to myself thank you very much. 

Thanks Macbeth,

It's refreshing to find others that go to extreme lengths to get things to work exactly the way they want them to!

For a while I thought that I may be the only nut that would consider taking on an elaborate task of this magnitude to produce a single copy for myself! [emoji14]alm:

Including references to other books and publications!

[EEVblog]

A note from the co-author: We've recently learned that there are *counterfeits* abroad in the land (we're shocked, shocked!).
They make nice collector pieces, but, hey, not a good deal if you want the Real Thing.
Some folks who bought "new" copies on Amazon (marketplace seller) recently, priced suspiciously low, have reported some amusing errors (and crappy bindings), for example ligatures (lingo for pairs like fi, ffi, fl) not rendering; so my co-author Winfield has lost a piece of his soul, right on the title page, becoming "Wineld" (and analogous weirdnesses with "filter" in the Table of Contents, etc.).
Paul

Paul Horowitz in the house!
Welcome Paul
Is Win Hill still on sci.electronics.design usenet? 

[T3sl4co1l]

Is Win Hill still on sci.electronics.design usenet? 

Yes, now that the book's been released, he's been posting infrequently again.

Tim

[TomC]

Nothing wrong about that, but I highly doubt you could remake that big book in that obsessive way by yourself.

I  don't blame you!

It's nuts!

[Macbeth]

I wasn't happy with my epub and pdf version I made, so I did some more work and made an Apple iPhone Art of Electronics App! It's the dogs bollocks I tell you! it has animated video and I've also cross referenced all part numbers to manufacturers datasheets and youtube. All the circuits have been remade in an embedded custom SPICE app and I've built an easy hardware interface with the venerable ebay M328 Transistor Tester - put your component in and the relevant book page comes up on the phone. 

[Kalvin]

... <snip> and I've built an easy hardware interface with the venerable ebay M328 Transistor Tester - put your component in and the relevant book page comes up on the phone. 

I have an improved version made for Android. I just take a photo of a circuit board and the components, and the application will create a schematics for it with proper links to the Book for each component, create a SPICE simulation model for it,  show the datasheets of all components, and create a Kicad project for the circuit and PCB layout with the BOM for Digikey component codes. For the multilayer boards the photo needs to be taken so that a bright light is placed behind the PCB to show all the traces in the middle layers. Varying the color of the light, the traces will be shown by a layer basis.

[T3sl4co1l]

I find these supposed custom resources hard to believe; surely if you're going to that much trouble, you'd contact the publisher and say "hey, no copyright infringement intended, would you be interested in..?"

Then again, that's something like saying "no homo" on something, you're more than likely to be misunderstood and attacked for it.

Tim

[TomC]

I thought I was nuts!

But after reading some of these comments I feel saner by the minute!

[McBryce]

... <snip> and I've built an easy hardware interface with the venerable ebay M328 Transistor Tester - put your component in and the relevant book page comes up on the phone. 

I have an improved version made for Android. I just take a photo of a circuit board and the components, and the application will create a schematics for it with proper links to the Book for each component, create a SPICE simulation model for it,  show the datasheets of all components, and create a Kicad project for the circuit and PCB layout with the BOM for Digikey component codes. For the multilayer boards the photo needs to be taken so that a bright light is placed behind the PCB to show all the traces in the middle layers. Varying the color of the light, the traces will be shown by a layer basis.

My Android version is similar, except mine goes the last few steps, orders the parts, has it built for you and it arrives by DHL 24 hours later. Of course it lets you tweet about it directly from the app, if you feel you need to.

I thought everybody makes their own AoE App!

McBryce.

[timofonic]

@Macbeth Are you serious? You must be kidding. Please put some video of it
@Kalvin Oh yeah, that's great. What kind of drugs do you use?

@McBryce

How much for an app that does that and is given to you by a very hot EE woman that loves you?

@TomC


I have an old 2nd edition that a british oldie geek gave me too, it's nice stuff but a bit outdated.

I can afford the damn book with some effort,. I plan to buy it if getting it cheaper, and even more if  there's a errata fixed version along with "Learning..." if the new version gets really revised and pedagogically good for fools like me (bad at maths, physics, memory, etc).

I can't afford to wear that giant ebook. I have a laptop and an ereader to avoid a lot of weight and deadtrees.

If those efforts true, I admire it and it's kind of sad others aren't able to enjoy it. But it's a shame in 2015 they didn't consider to make a digital release. If they're scared about piracy, that's going to happen even if they only release it in stones.

With the digital edition, they could use Epub3 (embed vectorial images, videos, datasheets, hires images, etc). They could add the removed chapters and even pay for updates, not just erratas but really interesting ones. This way it will be a live book, instead need to wait for a new edition. We're in a digital world on top of an analog one, but digital makes very easy to do iterative improvements. Please don't use propietary crap and go to the Epub3 standard, Oxford University Press loves it and it's a shit to use it on alternate platforms.

@Paul Horowitz

Congratulations for your book. I hope to see a book for fools like me that are bad at maths and such. I would love to learn all the necessary stuff, but finding books and a proper foolproof methodology makes is very difficult for me.

I know you must stay neutral and this book is owned by a giant publisher, so not going to put you in a compromise. Just read it, don't give your opinion: I cried a bit when knew about how even technical labor in books is externalized to countries with lower wages. There's lots of unemployed geeks out there that would love to make that, and the review process would be extreme.

April 2016? Why taking so long? Even a bunch of "nuts" did their own version

[Macbeth]

My Android version is similar, except mine goes the last few steps, orders the parts, has it built for you and it arrives by DHL 24 hours later. Of course it lets you tweet about it directly from the app, if you feel you need to.

I thought everybody makes their own AoE App!

McBryce.

Damn you! I was going to convert my Apple version to Android over the next few days and release it on New Years day. But now I know my version has a superior competitor I have lost all motivation. I don't even have an iPhone, I just thought all the Hipsters would like the AoE book in that format so you can understand what a slog it has been developing it on my Win 95 laptop.

However my April version will include all your stuff but deliver it for free by DHL 24 hours before you even think about ordering some parts. I'm using the latest version of mndrdr.lib from Urigeller labs for this.

Sorry guys, my new year release is on hold... late March/early April release now 

[McBryce]

@Timofonic: To your first question: Priceless.

Regarding a "book for fools like me that are bad at maths": The Art of Electronics is definitely one of the best books I've read so far that explains the foundations of electronics with as little boring complicated maths as possible. It doesn't get better than that.

McBryce.

[TomC]

Oh!

The wonders of virtual reality and Photoshop!

Or is it?

[steverino]

I thought I was nuts!

But after reading some of these comments I feel saner by the minute!

I thought all engineers owned the following meter:

[timofonic]

Oh!

The wonders of virtual reality and Photoshop!

Or is it?

It's okay, but I see tons of blurry and grained background. A work to be proud would be to pass it over OmniPage 19, get it fixed manually and vectorizing the drawings with another round of manual fixings. But I reckon that would require a lot of work.

Even more crazy: Sacrifice a book for cutting it and put it in a scanner feeder. But that Bible book would probably cause some issues.

Your results were jokingly exaggerated, you aren't so nuts!

Fox It? What about a real OCR program? Adobe bought Iris, they are perversely smart like Microsoft. Their software is bloated and overpriced, but it has good features. The same about Nuance giant monster.

Despite I love FOSS, the best OCR engine is the awful and old Tesseract that got bought by Google to HP. And they have millions of monkeys doing OCR thanks to the evil ReCaptCha.

[TomC]

It's okay, but I see tons of blurry and grained background. ...

That's the point of using a highly compressed and lossy gif!

Even more crazy: Sacrifice a book for cutting it and put it in a scanner feeder. But that Bible book would probably cause some issues.

If you are willing to do the work, there is enough space between the center of the book and the inside margins to get perfectly flat scans without taking the book apart. The catch is that you can't use a feeder!

Your results were jokingly exaggerated, you aren't so nuts!

That's the point of the post!

When you view the lossy gif is up to you to decide whether it represents a real digital version of AoE or if it's just a fake using photographic effects!

Fox It? What about a real OCR program? Adobe bought Iris, they are perversely smart like Microsoft. Their software is bloated and overpriced, but it has good features. The same about Nuance giant monster.

What you see is Foxit reader, not OCR. Adobe's latest release did away with thumbnails and some users, including me, are protesting by switching to Foxit.

A version of Iris is bundled with most HP printers/scanners, so a lot of the OCR results you see were processed by an Iris engine.

[Paul Horowitz]

Fresh news on electronic versions of The Art of Electronics, 3rd edition, as related by our editor at Cambridge Univ Press:

1. a Kindle Reader version is in the works for release this spring.  it will be a "print replica" (rather than "flowable"), so each page will look exactly as in the printed book.  viewable on desktops, laptops, and tablets, etc., with the Kindle app.

2. an html5 streamable version will come out somewhat later in the year.  viewable on standard browsers (optimized for Chrome, I believe)

[timofonic]

Fresh news on electronic versions of The Art of Electronics, 3rd edition, as related by our editor at Cambridge Univ Press:

1. a Kindle Reader version is in the works for release this spring.  it will be a "print replica" (rather than "flowable"), so each page will look exactly as in the printed book.  viewable on desktops, laptops, and tablets, etc., with the Kindle app.

2. an html5 streamable version will come out somewhat later in the year.  viewable on standard browsers (optimized for Chrome, I believe)

Will these at least have high quality graphics and erratas fixed?

[TomC]

Hallelujah!

At the very least this is a step in the right direction!

Hope that the extensive cross referencing between chapters, sections, tables, etc. is enhanced with links to provide the reader with a quick and easy way to take advantage of it!

[Docholiday]

I hope at the least the eBook version allows mark up and annotations ability. Sending to the printer would also be nice. I am not to sure about the Html version been there done that before. Frlom my experience it requires constant Internet access and no mark up or annotations. You could not even bookmark a page.

[tggzzz]

The experience for having books in paper and electrronic formats already exists in Cambridge. See, for example, http://withouthotair.com/

[Halfdead]

Fresh news on electronic versions of The Art of Electronics, 3rd edition, as related by our editor at Cambridge Univ Press:

1. a Kindle Reader version is in the works for release this spring.  it will be a "print replica" (rather than "flowable"), so each page will look exactly as in the printed book.  viewable on desktops, laptops, and tablets, etc., with the Kindle app.

2. an html5 streamable version will come out somewhat later in the year.  viewable on standard browsers (optimized for Chrome, I believe)

Great news, I assume these versions will include all of the various errata updates?

[Paul Horowitz]

In answer to several questions about e-book and streaming AoE3:

1. clean text and graphics, of course, and incorporating known errata.

2. html version will be live, kept current, fully linked, popup graphics in separate window, equations via MathJax, separately scrollable ToC, etc.  it will require internet connection.

3. the Kindle version is downloaded, lives on your viewing device(s); clean text and graphics, looks just like the printed page, but no popups, and the text is not flowable.  my understanding is that print replicas, though searchable, do not support links.

disclaimer: this is my understanding, to date.  more info when we learn more, OK?

[timofonic]

In answer to several questions about e-book and streaming AoE3:

1. clean text and graphics, of course, and incorporating known errata.

2. html version will be live, kept current, fully linked, popup graphics in separate window, equations via MathJax, separately scrollable ToC, etc.  it will require internet connection.

3. the Kindle version is downloaded, lives on your viewing device(s); clean text and graphics, looks just like the printed page, but no popups, and the text is not flowable.  my understanding is that print replicas, though searchable, do not support links.

disclaimer: this is my understanding, to date.  more info when we learn more, OK?

It's okay, Paul.

I still don't understand why this wasn't the initial plan, but those are the mysteries of book publishers.

I just hope it gets all the deleted content of previous editions, even some more historical notes could be added too. Humor is never enough, of course.

What do you mean with live? Do you mean it will be constantly updated? I would pay a small subscription to have a real live book that constantly gets updated, accepts feedback and have extra resources (Learning the Art of Electronics as a bundle). The need to constant Internet access or DRM would worry me, but that's how publishers work I suppose.

I would prefer to have an OPDS server with login and password, then read the latest updated epub3 version on my devices

We'll wait, don't worry. After all this edition taken 30 years to arrive! I just hope the book goes to a iterative and modern process thanks to new technologies, so "editions" could be a thing of the past.

I myself bought an 9,7" Android 4 e-ink device, Onyx Boox M96Plus. While the firmware has some things to improve, I prefer an ereader with the possibility to install applications.

[TomC]

In answer to several questions about e-book and streaming AoE3:

1. clean text and graphics, of course, and incorporating known errata.

Paul,

Here is a list of very minor errors I've compiled. I didn't think this list was important enough to submit to the official errata, but maybe it can help make the digitized versions more perfect!

[Tomorokoshi]

In answer to several questions about e-book and streaming AoE3:

1. clean text and graphics, of course, and incorporating known errata.

Paul,

Here is a list of very minor errors I've compiled. I didn't think this list was important enough to submit to the official errata, but maybe it can help make the digitized versions more perfect!

That's a nice list. It would be very nice to have an up to date complete list available. Perhaps I would go through and annotate my paper copy.

[TomC]

... It would be very nice to have an up to date complete list available. ...

Tomorokoshi,

This is the link to the official AoE 3e errata:

http://artofelectronics.net/errata/

It mostly contains corrections to technical errors by various contributors and it's vetted by the authors so you know for a fact that they have reviewed each candidate erratum and found it to be correct!

[timb]

In answer to several questions about e-book and streaming AoE3:

1. clean text and graphics, of course, and incorporating known errata.

2. html version will be live, kept current, fully linked, popup graphics in separate window, equations via MathJax, separately scrollable ToC, etc.  it will require internet connection.

3. the Kindle version is downloaded, lives on your viewing device(s); clean text and graphics, looks just like the printed page, but no popups, and the text is not flowable.  my understanding is that print replicas, though searchable, do not support links.

disclaimer: this is my understanding, to date.  more info when we learn more, OK?

How about just a PDF version too? You know a nice, unencrypted PDF I can view on my laptop and iPad, without the headache of DRM...

Hopefully, Kindle also means iBooks? If there's no PDF version then iBooks would be my second choice.

Finally, will I have to fork out an extra $100 for the "privilege" of getting an eCopy of the book if I already own the hardcover version? If so, shame on you! If not, woohoo, finally someone who gets it!

[Macbeth]

Finally, will I have to fork out an extra $100 for the "privilege" of getting an eCopy of the book if I already own the hardcover version? If so, shame on you! If not, woohoo, finally someone who gets it!

If you own the original then I can see no reason why you couldn't just scan your own sections of the book you are interested in for your own study as and when needed. It wouldn't be to onerous to do that at say a chapter or needed pages at a time. Perhaps just scan the index and OCR it to begin with to find the necessary pages you need to copy for review.

Eventually you will have built up a whole lot of chapters and I guess you will have them fully indexed too. A complete e-book.

Of course I'm not sure about USA copyright law anymore, and these new TPP and TTIP deals held in smoked filled rooms appear to make normal "fair use" a criminal offence with 5 years in jail, but you lot voted for Obama.

If you don't let the NSA or the publisher know you copied your own book for your own use then I really can't see any problem.

[Kolovrat88]

The harder you try to protect something against unauthorized copying the more likely it is that someone will bother trying to break your protection.

[Macbeth]

The harder you try to protect something against unauthorized copying the more likely it is that someone will bother trying to break your protection.

Just as well this one is piss easy to copy - I mean it is a text book. 

[con-f-use]

I know people who own a copy and torrented an OCRed version. Apparently there are some nice versions out there, even including the errata. So rewarding loyal buyers with the e-version would be a good idea.

[boffin]

For those looking for a deal on the latest edition, come to Canada:

Amazon.com: US$87.86
Amazon.ca: C$90.43  (US $63.95)
(mine should arrive today)

I'm guessing they set the price for the new edition when the C$ was up around US$0.95 not the US$0.71 it's at right now

[mtdoc]

For those looking for a deal on the latest edition, come to Canada:

Amazon.com: US$87.86
Amazon.ca: C$90.43  (US $63.95)
(mine should arrive today)

I'm guessing they set the price for the new edition when the C$ was up around US$0.95 not the US$0.71 it's at right now

Yep. I just spent a few days in Victoria - everything was on sale in US$!

[boffin]

For those looking for a deal on the latest edition, come to Canada:

Amazon.com: US$87.86
Amazon.ca: C$90.43  (US $63.95)
(mine should arrive today)

I'm guessing they set the price for the new edition when the C$ was up around US$0.95 not the US$0.71 it's at right now

Yep. I just spent a few days in Victoria - everything was on sale in US$!

I lived in Victoria for 25 yrs...

[mtdoc]

I lived in Victoria for 25 yrs...

I love Victoria and go there all the time - it's the closest "city" to me.  I just live a ferry ride away - across the Strait....

[boffin]

It arrived; and it's a beast. Wow.  Going to take me a little bit of time to absorb all of that.

I lived in Victoria for 25 yrs...

I love Victoria and go there all the time - it's the closest "city" to me.  I just live a ferry ride away - across the Strait....

Next time you head over, try and locate the "Barbara Streisand Room" (no one says Blackball don't have a sense of humour).  It's hard to believe that old ship plies the waters every day; it's older than I am !

[Paul Horowitz]

News on Kindle Reader edition:  We're told that it will be in Amazon's hands by the end of this week, so availability likely this month.  Note that it is in "Print Replica" format, thus readable on laptops, desktops, and tablets, etc., but not on e-ink devices like Kindle Paperwhite.
Here's how Amazon describes it:
"Kindle Print Replica textbooks maintain the formatting and layout of their print editions while also offering many of the advantages of Kindle books.
Each page in a Print Replica textbook displays words and images in the same position as the corresponding print edition, while adding features such as notes, highlights, and the ability to sync your last page read across multiple Fire tablets, Kindle e-readers and Kindle reading apps. Kindle Print Replica textbooks also have most of the same features as PDF-formatted books, including zoom and pan functions.
Kindle Print Replica textbooks are supported on: Fire tablets, Kindle for PC, Kindle for Mac, Kindle for iPhone, iPad, & iPod touch, Kindle for Android, Kindle for Samsung."

[timofonic]

News on Kindle Reader edition:  We're told that it will be in Amazon's hands by the end of this week, so availability likely this month.  Note that it is in "Print Replica" format, thus readable on laptops, desktops, and tablets, etc., but not on e-ink devices like Kindle Paperwhite.
Here's how Amazon describes it:
"Kindle Print Replica textbooks maintain the formatting and layout of their print editions while also offering many of the advantages of Kindle books.
Each page in a Print Replica textbook displays words and images in the same position as the corresponding print edition, while adding features such as notes, highlights, and the ability to sync your last page read across multiple Fire tablets, Kindle e-readers and Kindle reading apps. Kindle Print Replica textbooks also have most of the same features as PDF-formatted books, including zoom and pan functions.
Kindle Print Replica textbooks are supported on: Fire tablets, Kindle for PC, Kindle for Mac, Kindle for iPhone, iPad, & iPod touch, Kindle for Android, Kindle for Samsung."

Nice.

Will there be an upgrade program from print replica to the (live?) one?

[timofonic]

News on Kindle Reader edition:  We're told that it will be in Amazon's hands by the end of this week, so availability likely this month.  Note that it is in "Print Replica" format, thus readable on laptops, desktops, and tablets, etc., but not on e-ink devices like Kindle Paperwhite.

Well, that seems like a misstep, since it doesn't have any advantages over the pirate PDF that people can get for free.  If it were a true ebook, people would be more likely to pay for it (again, since they probably have the paper book already).

I would prefer a LIVE ePUB3 version: Your book gets updated and fixed, your book gets updated by paying a yearly fee.

Of course this would require a team dedicated to AoE, but it would make it the DEFINITIVE and MOST UPDATED book

[DimitriP]

Y so much y ninig
The title of the book is ingenious.
It's not a cookbook, a datasheet or a how to.

Simple Definition of art
    : something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings

and yet hre we are talking about e-ink, pdf, kindle alphabet soup.
Buy it, read it, know it. B done.

[Paul Horowitz]

Kindle (print replica edition) of 3rd edition AoE is now up on both UK and US sites; don't be confused by 2nd ed Kindle, which is there also.

The streaming version, served from the CUP site, will probably come out in another six months or so; it will have links, and a much larger index (plus an index of part numbers).  Those indexes will also be posted on our website, when I've got them done ('nuther month or two, it's a lot of work!)

paul

[TomC]

Kindle (print replica edition) of 3rd edition AoE is now up on both UK and US sites; don't be confused by 2nd ed Kindle, which is there also.

The streaming version, served from the CUP site, will probably come out in another six months or so; it will have links, and a much larger index (plus an index of part numbers).  Those indexes will also be posted on our website, when I've got them done ('nuther month or two, it's a lot of work!)

paul

Congratulations on now having an official eBook version available!

I tried the "look inside" feature on Amazon and it seems that linking was not implemented at all in this version. Even clicking on a table of contents entry doesn't take you to the designated page. If this is the case on the actual product it's, in my opinion, a real pity, since I believe this is one of the most sought after features in eBooks.

[DimitriP]

this is one of the most sought after features in eBooks.

Ahhh, yes.
It's a all too common misconception that e-books were created for the reader's convenience and not the publisher's.

 

[timofonic]

Is this documented? I copied it from Winfield Hill reply in Amazon

4th printing most of the errors
5th printing most of the typos


6th printing (hardcover)
7th printing (Kindle)

They haven't had an error reported to us since Dec 4th, 2015, now approaching 3 months.

Quote from: Winfield Hill on February 24, 2016

Hi Bob, Winfield here.

Errors and typos? You must have gotten an old printing. We received hundreds of emails with multiple hundreds of suggestions and we responded by updating the book before each printing.

[ http://artofelectronics.net/errata/ ]

By the 4th printing most of the errors were found and fixed, and by the 5th printing most of the typos as well. We're on the 6th printing (hardcover) and 7th printing (Kindle) now, and we haven't had an error reported to us since Dec 4th, 2015, now approaching 3 months.

At any rate, if you have an older printing, we've updated our errata page so you can select your sort preference, and make a pdf file to print and keep with the book.

[ElektronikLabor]

We received hundreds of emails with multiple hundreds of suggestions and we responded by updating the book before each printing.

Do I understand right that different printings exists of the 3rs edition?
How can you figure out which printing you have?

[Cerebus]

Is this documented? I copied it from Winfield Hill reply in Amazon

4th printing most of the errors
5th printing most of the typos


6th printing (hardcover)
7th printing (Kindle)

They haven't had an error reported to us since Dec 4th, 2015, now approaching 3 months.

Quote from: Winfield Hill on February 24, 2016

Hi Bob, Winfield here.

Errors and typos? You must have gotten an old printing. We received hundreds of emails with multiple hundreds of suggestions and we responded by updating the book before each printing.

[ http://artofelectronics.net/errata/ ]

By the 4th printing most of the errors were found and fixed, and by the 5th printing most of the typos as well. We're on the 6th printing (hardcover) and 7th printing (Kindle) now, and we haven't had an error reported to us since Dec 4th, 2015, now approaching 3 months.

At any rate, if you have an older printing, we've updated our errata page so you can select your sort preference, and make a pdf file to print and keep with the book.

Erm, I've an email from Winfield, dated 30th Dec 2015, acknowledging an error I found sometime between then and the 25th as a newly spotted error. (Figure 5.59 on page 344  - differential outputs from a differential source follower pair connected vice-versa to the rest of the circuit, if anybody's interested).

[Paul Horowitz]

To clarify Winfield's comment on errata: Our sharp readers continue to find errors, all of which are corrected in successive printings.  However, for the "Errata" page we list only those that we consider "serious."  For the Kindle version (and the 7th printing, not yet ordered) all errors (serious or otherwise) received through 4 Feb 2016 have been included.

[TomC]

I can understand that to keep the main errata brief one may choose to list just the most serious errors. However, in my opinion, many owners of earlier printings, myself included, would like to also have a list of the other errors. Unless I'm missing something regarding the way this is currently being handled, anyone that wants this information will have to buy the latest printing! Is that correct?

[Muxr]

I finally got mine! Since I have gone paperless as far as books go, I waited for the Kindle edition to buy it. Kind of disappointed to be honest. Not in the content but in how they handled the Kindle edition.

- $82, it's a bit pricey. Same price as a physical book, makes no sense.

- Format is not supported on my e-paper kindle (2nd edition Kindle I believe). First book I ever ran into that isn't supported by my Kindle.

- On my iPad I can't increase the text size.

- I usually read at night, and black on white can be tiring. I prefer white text on black paper. Can't change that either.

Whatever format they used it's barely compatible with the Kindle app. For $82, the production of the eBook leaves a lot to be desired. Meanwhile the previous edition of the book had no issues.

[indole]

To clarify Winfield's comment on errata: Our sharp readers continue to find errors, all of which are corrected in successive printings.  However, for the "Errata" page we list only those that we consider "serious."  For the Kindle version (and the 7th printing, not yet ordered) all errors (serious or otherwise) received through 4 Feb 2016 have been included.

Is there any word on Learning the Art Of Electronics for the 3rd edition?   Amazon still says Feb 26/2016 for shipping but that's came and gone and my copy hasn't shipped yet. 

[kg4arn]

Got email from Amazon yesterday saying it is delayed but not estimated ship date.

[Docholiday]

Just got new ship date of  March 21 from Amazon.   

[Brent C]

Is there any word on Learning the Art Of Electronics for the 3rd edition?   Amazon still says Feb 26/2016 for shipping but that's came and gone and my copy hasn't shipped yet.

http://learningtheartofelectronics.com/category/news/

[Docholiday]

Just got new ship date of  March 21 from Amazon.   

Sorry!!!

Learning the Art of Electronics: A Hands on Lab Course

[ShreveCC]

Absolutely the best blend of electronic education and wisdom I have found so far.  I wish I discovered the 2nd Edition while I was in school.  This book should be considered as critically important as your equipment.   

Furthermore, looking forward to the X chapters in the Lab Course; these books are worth every penny, and I have read literally hundreds of technical books.   

[Docholiday]

We use this book in school as a reference book and to reinforce what we learn in class. I wish we could use this as our primary book.

[dadler]

I guess I was asleep at the wheel, and did not realize the Kindle version has now been released.

I bought the 3rd edition hardback in May of last year, and thought I could convince myself to read a physical book--but this book is just too heavy to read!

Bought the 3rd edition Kindle book last night (already had the 2nd edition Kindle book), and it is spectacular. It is the print replica version, but I find this easier to read due to the sheer  number number of tables/diagrams/schematics.

I don't necessarily regret purchasing the physical book, but the Kindle edition is so much easier to read/practical 

Edit: Thought I would add that the print replica still supports searching, highlighting, notes etc.

[timb]

I bought the dead tree version, but honestly, as much as I'd like to actually ready through the whole thing (instead of using it as a reference book at my desk, as I do now) I can't. It's just too damn heavy to lay in bed and read. I guess I've been so spoiled by eBooks. Nothing quite like laying in bed with a library at your disposal.

That said, I'm not forking out another $85 for the privilege of the electronic version of a book I already own. That's absolutely crazy.

[Cerebus]

I bought the dead tree version, but honestly, as much as I'd like to actually ready through the whole thing (instead of using it as a reference book at my desk, as I do now) I can't. It's just too damn heavy to lay in bed and read. I guess I've been so spoiled by eBooks. Nothing quite like laying in bed with a library at your disposal.

I'm so with you on that one. There's somehow something different about reading lying down that makes it easier to absorb what you have in front of you.

At university I developed the habit of lying down to read anything I really needed to get my head around. Usually it was a photocopy of a paper that was sufficiently beyond my current understanding of the topic at hand that it needed all my comprehension and visualisation skills to get to grips with.

I never did that with textbooks until ebook versions became available; simply because most textbooks are two unwieldy to handle lying down. Hence I don't think I ever read a textbook end to end until there were ebooks but now I regularly do so. There are two notable exceptions "The New Science of Strong Materials or Why you Don't Fall Through the Floor" and "Structures" both by J.E. Gordon and both available as Penguin paperbacks in the same size as normal fiction paperbacks.

[timb]

I bought the dead tree version, but honestly, as much as I'd like to actually ready through the whole thing (instead of using it as a reference book at my desk, as I do now) I can't. It's just too damn heavy to lay in bed and read. I guess I've been so spoiled by eBooks. Nothing quite like laying in bed with a library at your disposal.

I'm so with you on that one. There's somehow something different about reading lying down that makes it easier to absorb what you have in front of you.

Yeah, exactly. I wonder if it has to do with lack of distractions? Nobody's calling or texting you, there's no TV blaring, no kids screaming or dogs barking (or dogs screaming and kids barking).

Another thing I notice is a lot of times whatever I was reading before bed will make an appearance in my dreams. Even if in a vague or distorted way. This leads me to believe that my mind is certainly processing the information while I sleep, so perhaps that's why we retain it so much better, because we're immediately given time to process it.

Either way, I totally concur.

[Cerebus]

Another thing I notice is a lot of times whatever I was reading before bed will make an appearance in my dreams. Even if in a vague or distorted way. This leads me to believe that my mind is certainly processing the information while I sleep, so perhaps that's why we retain it so much better, because we're immediately given time to process it.

That's definitely the case. If I've an awkward design problem to solve I try to deliberately think about it as I'm just about to go to sleep. Often I have a solution by halfway through next morning's first coffee.

Of course, there's the famous example of Kekulé who elucidated the structure of benzene. To quote him:

I was sitting, writing at my text-book; but the work did not progress; my thoughts were elsewhere. I turned my chair to the fire and dozed. Again the atoms were gamboling before my eyes. This time the smaller groups kept modestly in the background. My mental eye, rendered more acute by the repeated visions of the kind, could now distinguish larger structures of manifold conformation: long rows, sometimes more closely fitted together; all twining and twisting in snake-like motion. But look! What was that? One of the snakes had seized hold of its own tail, and the form whirled mockingly before my eyes. As if by a flash of lightning I awoke; and this time also I spent the rest of the night in working out the consequences of the hypothesis.

[T3sl4co1l]

Of course, there's the famous example of Kekulé who elucidated the structure of benzene. To quote him:
[...]

There's a comic for that,

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7c/22/47/7c2247027ab4cfc884ee3e33bb3c76c8.jpg



Tim

[rrinker]

 After I looked at that for a second, I remembered enough chemistry to see why it was funny.

[KE5FX]

After I looked at that for a second, I remembered enough chemistry to see why it was funny.

I don't always wave around flasks of benzene, but when I do, I make sure to smoke my pipe!

[T3sl4co1l]

Don't forget, back in the day, chemists did a lot of scary things... smoking over whatever experiments, touching their samples, smelling and yes even tasting them(!)...

Tim

[SeanB]

Don't forget, back in the day, chemists did a lot of scary things... smoking over whatever experiments, touching their samples, smelling and yes even tasting them(!)...

Tim

How else would we have artificial sweeteners?

[TheAmmoniacal]

Benzene, my 7th favorite conjugated pi system.

[GK]

Was just browsing (insomnia) chapter 9 and I think that credit for the "two-transistor" bandgap voltage reference topology that doubles as an error amplifier as used in the LM317 ("Anatomy of a 317", page 604 and figure 9.13 page 606) has been wrongly attributed to Widlar-Dobkin.

To date I was of the understanding that this bandgap topology is originally attributable to Paul Brokaw, as detailed in:
A Simple Three-Terminal IC Bandgap Reference, IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS,VOL.SC-9,NO. 6, DECEMBER 1974

I have attached a pdf of this document. Note that this paper references the paper by Widlar mentioned in chapter 9 (ref#14 page 604):
New Developments in IC Voltage Regulators, IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS,VOL. SC-6, NO 1, FEBRUARY 1971

For convenience, I have attached a pdf of this document also.

Brokaws paper begins with the "conventional bandgap circuit" as outlined by Widlar in the latter, and then builds upon the concept, describing the "new" combined reference and regulator topology that is topologically/functionally equivalent to figure 9.13 in AOE3.

AOE3 "Anatomy of a 317" states that the LM317 was designed by Widlar-Dobkin "around 1970" and gives ref#14. However, ref#14 doesn't actually detail the LM317 circuit shown in fig 9.13, but that of the LM109 fixed 5-V linear regulator, which uses a somewhat different variation of the "conventional bandgap circuit" (as far as I can currently see now at 1.22 am).

It would still be nice to know exactly when the LM317 was designed, but I suspect it wasn't before the Brokaw paper unless there was a highly coincidental/improbable independent development.

[Thilo78]

Got my set last week. 

Back to school! 

[GK]

Was just browsing (insomnia) chapter 9 and I think that credit for the "two-transistor" bandgap voltage reference topology that doubles as an error amplifier as used in the LM317 ("Anatomy of a 317", page 604 and figure 9.13 page 606) has been wrongly attributed to Widlar-Dobkin.

To date I was of the understanding that this bandgap topology is originally attributable to Paul Brokaw, as detailed in:
A Simple Three-Terminal IC Bandgap Reference, IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS,VOL.SC-9,NO. 6, DECEMBER 1974

I have attached a pdf of this document. Note that this paper references the paper by Widlar mentioned in chapter 9 (ref#14 page 604):
New Developments in IC Voltage Regulators, IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS,VOL. SC-6, NO 1, FEBRUARY 1971

For convenience, I have attached a pdf of this document also.

Brokaws paper begins with the "conventional bandgap circuit" as outlined by Widlar in the latter, and then builds upon the concept, describing the "new" combined reference and regulator topology that is topologically/functionally equivalent to figure 9.13 in AOE3.

AOE3 "Anatomy of a 317" states that the LM317 was designed by Widlar-Dobkin "around 1970" and gives ref#14. However, ref#14 doesn't actually detail the LM317 circuit shown in fig 9.13, but that of the LM109 fixed 5-V linear regulator, which uses a somewhat different variation of the "conventional bandgap circuit" (as far as I can currently see now at 1.22 am).

It would still be nice to know exactly when the LM317 was designed, but I suspect it wasn't before the Brokaw paper unless there was a highly coincidental/improbable independent development.

I was correct of course. The LM317 was introduced in 1976. I think this attached/pictured source can be considered authoritative:

[GK]

It's further stated in section 9.10.2 (page 679):

"The classic bandgap reference requires three transistors, two for delta-Vbe and a third to add a Vbe. However, Widlar and Dobkin cleverly created a two-transistor version, first used in the LM317, see Figure 9.13."

I think these sections in chapter 9 need to be re-written for the next printing to give correct credit to Brokaw for the "two-transistor" bandgap reference:

[ghulands]

My reference copy arrives today with the lab manual on Wednesday. School starts in 5, 4, 3....

[timofonic]

It's nice people are still looking about the details of the book.

Let's see what people think about the new book, what the more skilled people are able to find.

Are there going to be a third book? "The X Chapters"?

[winfieldhill]

It's further stated in section 9.10.2 (page 679):

"The classic bandgap reference requires three transistors, two for delta-Vbe and a third to add a Vbe. However, Widlar and Dobkin cleverly created a two-transistor version, first used in the LM317, see Figure 9.13."

I think these sections in chapter 9 need to be re-written for the next printing to give correct credit to Brokaw for the "two-transistor" bandgap reference:

I'll go back and look at my references, and yours, but first, let's say I believe its pretty clear Bob Widlar invented the classic three-transistor Vbe reference.  And he either invented the two-transistor version, or knew about it very early.**  The ISSCC used to be held each year in Philadelphia, and I always went, at least until about 1972, when I started my company and became too busy.  Furthermore the ISSCC moved to the west coast, too far for me to travel.  One year, maybe it was 1969, maybe a year or two later, I was exiting an auditorium mid-session to move to a different session, and I came across Bob Widlar and Bob Dobkin standing alone outside.  (In those days Dobkin was always a Widlar look-alike with his beard.)  At the time I was quite excited about the new Vbe reference circuit and praised it to Widlar.  His answer was that it could be done with two transistors, could I see how?  That took me back and I couldn't think of how, or any answer, so the conversation ended early.  ** I think perhaps what Widlar didn't do, was write about it first.

[GK]

Thanks for responding,

I'll go back and look at my references, and yours, but first, let's say I believe its pretty clear Bob Widlar invented the classic three-transistor Vbe reference.

I think that is pretty clear also.

And he either invented the two-transistor version, or knew about it very early.

**The ISSCC used to be held each year in Philadelphia, and I always went, at least until about 1972, when I started my company and became too busy.  Furthermore the ISSCC moved to the west coast, too far for me to travel.  One year, maybe it was 1969, maybe a year or two later, I was exiting an auditorium mid-session to move to a different session, and I came across Bob Widlar and Bob Dobkin standing alone outside.  (In those days Dobkin was always a Widlar look-alike with his beard.)  At the time I was quite excited about the new Vbe reference circuit and praised it to Widlar.  His answer was that it could be done with two transistors, could I see how?  That took me back and I couldn't think of how, or any answer, so the conversation ended early.**

I think perhaps what Widlar didn't do, was write about it first.

Interesting anecdote, though is there a good explanation as to why the conversation with Widlar would suddenly end with the guy "quite excited" about the topic not pressing for further details? Widlar was the kind of guy to bring a sheep to work and then later abandon the animal at a pub. Perhaps he was yanking the guys chain? Or maybe he really had already invented the two-transistor" scheme and for some reason kept it to himself? From that anecdote alone could anyone say one way or another for sure?

In such a scenario, when assigning historical credit, I think one has to stick to the documentary evidence. For example, the two-transistor bandgap topology is nowadays widely used and ubiquitous, and many an integrated circuit design engineer both back in the day and contemporarily would have learnt of the scheme from Brokaw's paper rather than from having studied the internal circuity of the LM317.

Just IMO, a historical and technical exposition of the two-transistor bandgap reference is incomplete if it doesn't reference the paper by Brokaw. If there is anecdotal evidence to suggest that Widlar or Widlar-Dobkin had invented the scheme independently of Brokaw then it is perfectly fine to say so, but not to imply more than what that permits by means of omission.

All that said it would still be interesting to see/find any concrete art prior to Brokaw.

[winfieldhill]

I agree, we'll edit the section.

[Marzogh]

As much as I love my hardback copy, I'd love it if this were available as an ebook. It definitely makes reading it in bed, or in a cafe easier. You shoudl see the looks I get when I lug the hardcover edition into a cafe at 8am on a Saturday morning (to compare, my wife is usually carrying her kindle )

[fpliuzzi]

As much as I love my hardback copy, I'd love it if this were available as an ebook. It definitely makes reading it in bed, or in a cafe easier. You shoudl see the looks I get when I lug the hardcover edition into a cafe at 8am on a Saturday morning (to compare, my wife is usually carrying her kindle )

I noticed that there's a Kindle edition of this book if that helps.

[Marzogh]

Whoops! Thanks for the heads up.  That's what comes of me typing before I double check. I couldn't access the Kindle version from Australia when a I last checked a while ago, but now I can.

Perfect! 

[Paul Horowitz]

Hey guys, following up on a great suggestion by Jan Kardaun, we've made a (monster) index of all part numbers in the book.  Here's a link to a draft (unchecked, etc; final version will be triple column, and errors fixed):
http://artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/parts_index.pdf
paul

[Docholiday]

Great Job Paul!
I Thank You for the effort and time it took to put this together. Not asking to much can a Excel version be exported to Excel?

[Macbeth]

Great Job Paul!
I Thank You for the effort and time it took to put this together. Not asking to much can a Excel version be exported to Excel?

Why would you export an Excel to Excel?

What I think you mean is you want the PDF in Excel - in which case you could quite easily manage it with a bit of faffing:

Open PDF. Press CTRL-A and CTRL-C to copy the whole document. Open Notepad, paste it and then save it as 'AOE.CSV'

Open Excel. Open 'AOE.CSV' and choose the comma delimiter.

That will get you mostly what you want. Obviously plenty of bits and bobs to tidy up too. About 15 minutes work I imagine.

Ultimately I think a relational database like MySQL or Access would be best with relations between partnumbers and pages (and suppliers, alternative partnos, etc.) tables

[Brumby]

You'll lose formatting, which I wouldn't normally be too fussed about - except that italics are used to indicate a 'figure'.

The database idea does have appeal.

[nowlan]

Were these parts in the main book or the lab book. I don't understand why so many similar parts.
Also no description or grouping by type or chapter.

I think I am confusing the lab kit that was in another thread. Which was like $500 in parts, so a big outlay for some. Rather have a list of essential, repeating parts, then a list of optional expensive chips for labs I want to try.

[Docholiday]

Thank you for correcting me in what I was trying to communicate. I have tried the pdf to excel before it just does not work to well and you spend a lot of time re-formating.

[Paul Horowitz]

After four months of effort we've got a first draft of a monster index; we'll be cleaning it up, adding plenty more terms, etc., but if you want to see it in its current 50-page form, there's a link on the main page, at
http://artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/subject_index_8jun16.pdf
suggestions happily accepted -- please send them to me at horowitz@physics.harvard.edu
paul

[KE5FX]

After four months of effort we've got a first draft of a monster index; we'll be cleaning it up, adding plenty more terms, etc., but if you want to see it in its current 50-page form, there's a link on the main page, at
http://artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/subject_index_8jun16.pdf
suggestions happily accepted -- please send them to me at horowitz@physics.harvard.edu
paul

Kudos for putting the extra effort into the index -- too many otherwise-good books are handicapped by a one or two page index that was clearly just an afterthought. 

That said, the Subject Index in my AoE3 edition starts on page 1171, not page 1211 as your new one does... while at the same time your new page entry for 'Abbreviations' is 1170, only four pages later than mine (1166).   What goes between the end of 'Abbreviations' and the beginning of the index? 

[Brumby]

"This page intentionally left blank" ... ?





(Sorry)

[timofonic]

"This page intentionally left blank" ... ?





(Sorry)

Taking user notes, probably. It's probably a way to store your important notes inside the book itself.

[bitwelder]

"This page intentionally left blank" ... ?





(Sorry)

Taking user notes, probably. It's probably a way to store your important notes inside the book itself.

There is a appwikipage for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentionally_blank_page

[timofonic]

"This page intentionally left blank" ... ?





(Sorry)

Taking user notes, probably. It's probably a way to store your important notes inside the book itself.

There is a appwikipage for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentionally_blank_page

I didn't know these so many cases. I thought modern printing would avoided them.

Back to topic...

Any more errata? What about the digital AoE3? What about The X Chapters? What about a Digital version of the latest Learning the Art of Electronics? How's the book?

[saturation]

Usually its because in the days of printed books there may not be enough material to fill that page after edits are made to the manuscript so something as simple as a font change, or a resized diagram.  Rare its a placeholder for newer material; its almost never there for readers to take notes.  Sometimes automated machine is programmed for a fixed number of pages and thus inserts blank pages for the run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentionally_blank_page

"This page intentionally left blank" ... ?





(Sorry)

[GK]

I agree, we'll edit the section.

Just stumbled upon some further bandgap history/references.

Bob Pease in "The Design of Band-Gap Reference Circuits: Trials and Tribulations" introduces the two-transistor bandgap reference, referring to it as "The Brokaw cell.....attributed to Paul Brokaw[3]", the reference being: "3. AD580 Data Sheet, Analog Devices, Inc., 1975."

The AD580 would appear to be the first commercial IC to use the topology. It was initially introduced in 1974 in the 8-2 issue of Analog Dialogue:


 

[PartialDischarge]

Just an amazing book, learned new concepts that will allow me to develop simplified and more cost-effective features in a few products!
when are the X chapters coming out??

[drdanke]

Just picked up the 3rd edition, and even being fairly new to electronics, the read is amazing.  It reads like a textbook, but advances to different subjects quicker, so it keeps me reading longer!

[federdalla]

Does anybody know when the "x chapters" are going to be available?

[Paul Horowitz]

Just got a nice typeset version of the FINAL updated index (actually, 2 indexes: Subject, and Parts), it's the work of about 5 months (!), and it's posted now on our website on the front page (artofelectronics.net).  It's not yet in printed editions or in the Kindle edition.  It's got LOTS more entries, quite useful.

[tggzzz]

Very nice, both to look at and to use.

Clearly the authors want to - and know how to - help the readers.

[ez24]

Just got a nice typeset version of the FINAL updated index (actually, 2 indexes: Subject, and Parts), it's the work of about 5 months (!), and it's posted now on our website on the front page (artofelectronics.net).  It's not yet in printed editions or in the Kindle edition.  It's got LOTS more entries, quite useful.

A little confused:

When I go here: http://artofelectronics.net/

and click on the right link for this :  Learning the Art of Electronics 3rd Edition   (NOTICE the 3rd edition)

Amazon.com – The Art of Electronics 3rd Edition / Learning the Art of Electronics 3rd Edition

this comes up

https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Art-Electronics-Hands--Course/dp/0521177235

and it says 1st edition   SO my question is -- which is right ?  1st or 3rd

thanks

[ez24]

and it says 1st edition   SO my question is -- which is right ?  1st or 3rd

Well, that's why Amazon offers free return shipping and full refund in case you are not satisfied.

No it is a typo  - I am sure it is 1st and they wrote 3rd.  Typos on web pages drive me nuts.

[orin]

Just got a nice typeset version of the FINAL updated index (actually, 2 indexes: Subject, and Parts), it's the work of about 5 months (!), and it's posted now on our website on the front page (artofelectronics.net).  It's not yet in printed editions or in the Kindle edition.  It's got LOTS more entries, quite useful.

A little confused:

When I go here: http://artofelectronics.net/

and click on the right link for this :  Learning the Art of Electronics 3rd Edition   (NOTICE the 3rd edition)

Amazon.com – The Art of Electronics 3rd Edition / Learning the Art of Electronics 3rd Edition

this comes up

https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Art-Electronics-Hands--Course/dp/0521177235

and it says 1st edition   SO my question is -- which is right ?  1st or 3rd

thanks

For "Learning the Art of Electronics", 1st edition would appear to be correct.  See http://learningtheartofelectronics.com

The links there do not say 3rd edition for "Learning the Art of Electronics".

[ez24]

Amazon.com – The Art of Electronics 3rd Edition / Learning the Art of Electronics 3rd Edition

The links there do not say 3rd edition for "Learning the Art of Electronics".

 Learning the Art of Electronics 3rd Edition  =  3rd edition for "Learning the Art of Electronics   ??

(it is like reading the fine print)  You have to know we are talking about 2 books not 1     One book is the 3rd ed and one is the 1st ed.


I forgot to say it is nice having the author come to this site 

[Simon]

The title on the website says it all "a hand on lab course" it's a different book.

[Paul Horowitz]

Oops, spoke too soon -- the good news: the indexes (parts, and subject) we put up on artofelectronics.net on Nov 20 are thorough (footnote: "Please see him, Jeffrey.  He's a good man, and thorough."); the bad news: the pages are all off by -10% (weird, right?); the good-again news: they're really correct, now.  Discard previous, live happy.

[plesa]

Thanks Paul and Winfield for such an excellent books .Noticed them in my local bookstore today. After I read few pages I just cannot left store without them.  

[timofonic]

Any news about "The X Chapters" addition book?

When will the new editions going to have the improved indexes?

What about the upcoming online edition?

Any hopes to have the "The Definitive Edition With X Chapters and everything else, this time is true" Edition?

Any hopes to read your books in ereaders that use ePub and not from Amazon Empire?

[Cerebus]

Any news about "The X Chapters" addition book?

Yes, please.

I got the 3rd edition 1 year ago and had read the whole thing by the end of January. It was a really frustrating experience to see "see chapter Nx" for just about everything that looked like it was a tasty morsel of new information. To be still waiting for that hunger for information to be satisfied over a year after the 3rd Edition was published is tantamount to torture.

[Paul Horowitz]

A few bits of news, if y'all are interested:
1. the x-chapters book is growing nicely, but we want it to be wonderfuller, so please be patient; lot's of goodstuff in there...
2. we are told that Cambridge Univ Press is now moving seriously toward an online version, but that's likely to be another year (we think)
3. a bit of excitement a couple of weeks ago -- a warehouse in California was raided, they found 4-5 pallets of counterfeit AoE3 copies -- cool!
4. we hope the full index will appear in some future printing, but for now it's posted in full on our website at:
    artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/subject_index_final_30nov16.pdf  (there's also a full index of parts, by number)
5. we're not sure the reason, but Amazon is currently selling the book for US$60 to prime members; we bought a few, they are the latest (10th) printing, and authentic ("Ships from and sold by Amazon.com exclusively for Prime members.")

that's all for now,
paul

[KE5FX]

I got the 3rd edition 1 year ago and had read the whole thing by the end of January. It was a really frustrating experience to see "see chapter Nx" for just about everything that looked like it was a tasty morsel of new information.

I agree.  I'd hate to see this become a trend.  It's weak sauce.

Got something to say?  Put it online, or in a book.  Got something else to say?  Put it online, or in the next book.  In my line of work, unresolved forward references are errors.

[Sredni]

1. the x-chapters book is growing nicely, but we want it to be wonderfuller, so please be patient; lot's of goodstuff in there...
2. we are told that Cambridge Univ Press is now moving seriously toward an online version, but that's likely to be another year (we think)

If it follows its older sibling's example, we would read the X-chapters on our iPhoneX with 7G technology.

[TerraHertz]

The bad news: An old friend of mine has been told he may not have long to live.
The good news: He offloaded a pile of books to me yesterday. Among them is tAoE vol2. So now I have my old Vol 1, and vol 2.

I guess I should buy Vol 3. But reading this thread learned about the X-chapters, so will wait till that's available too. I hate 'broken links.'

Oh, and some of the books are duplicates (I have already.) I'll be putting those up on buy/sell here, as giveaways.

[KE5FX]

The bad news: An old friend of mine has been told he may not have long to live.
The good news: He offloaded a pile of books to me yesterday. Among them is tAoE vol2. So now I have my old Vol 1, and vol 2.

I guess I should buy Vol 3. But reading this thread learned about the X-chapters, so will wait till that's available too. I hate 'broken links.'

Oh, and some of the books are duplicates (I have already.) I'll be putting those up on buy/sell here, as giveaways.

The bad news certainly sucks.   But the good news is interesting, at least -- I don't think I've ever seen a copy of AoE1.  Gotta say I like the cover better than the one on the current edition.

That being said... it would be a huge, huge mistake to pass up AoE3 because a few malcontents are grumbling about the whole X-chapter concept.  What they did publish is a masterwork that blows away its predecessor.   Get it.

[TerraHertz]

That being said... it would be a huge, huge mistake to pass up AoE3 because a few malcontents are grumbling about the whole X-chapter concept.  What they did publish is a masterwork that blows away its predecessor.   Get it.

Hey, I didn't say I'd pass up on it. I said I'd wait.
There is zero chance of 'missing out', since there are always 2nd hand copies available.
Famous last words. But...
   https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&an=Horowitz&tn=The+art+of+electronics&kn=&isbn=
I prefer 2nd hand anyway, because I'm poor.
Also I'm both busy and reading-motivation-depleted these days, so there is no point rushing. I likely wouldn't read it for ages anyway.

[tggzzz]

I prefer 2nd hand anyway, because I'm poor.
Also I'm both busy and reading-motivation-depleted these days, so there is no point rushing. I likely wouldn't read it for ages anyway.

Fundamental electronics has changed depressingly little between the 2nd and 3rd editions. The main changes are smaller/cheaper, different recommended components, much faster ADCs/DACs plus DSP, and nanopower electronics.

[PartialDischarge]

Well, time has passed and I still dream from time to time with the X chapters