Author Topic: Youtube Community Strike  (Read 9023 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2018, 09:37:45 am »
Dave you are appealing the decision right? Have you heard back?

Appealed straight away, haven't heard back. You only have a few hundred characters to write your reply, so impossible to explain things properly.
 
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2018, 09:54:55 am »
And a few hudnred characters is all a bot needs.  ;-) 
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Offline drussell

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2018, 10:56:57 am »
But "illegal activities" sounds like it refers to circumventing DMCA, which implies that Dave's content is copyrighted (owned) ... by Youtube.

The strike isn't for violating the DMCA, it was apparently for having the gall to actually mention a method that people could use to download a copy of YouTube videos.  It seems that disseminating information like that has been ruled by their magical "AI" algorithm to be against YouTube rules.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2018, 11:10:58 am »
Breaking Youtube terms does not make something illegal -- against the law.

I don't think they would use the term so loosely. That would be idiotic and just plain wrong.

Using 3rd party software to circumvent measures designed to protect IP, however, is considered (in the USA) to be illegal, unless allowed by fair use rights. Dave being Australian ... I don't know what that does.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 11:13:25 am by timelessbeing »
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2018, 02:57:40 pm »
I don't get it why Google strikes for explaining how to download a Youtube video, when the first Google search link links exactly to a site where you can do this.
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Offline station240

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2018, 04:01:30 pm »
Using 3rd party software to circumvent measures designed to protect IP, however, is considered (in the USA) to be illegal, unless allowed by fair use rights. Dave being Australian ... I don't know what that does.

Except youtube provide a means to download videos themselves, it's part of Youtube Premium.
So IP violation isn't the issue, as Youtube themselves provide a method to do just that.

Youtube have banned Dave for making livestreams, simply because he was demonstrating an alternative to their paid service.

They have also cracked down on anyone making videos promoting/mentioning alternatives to youtube like Twitch.
Upload a video titled "watch my livestream on twitch" and watch it get deleted.

Youtube have lost the plot, and gotten into the murky area of anti competitive behavior and censorship of content for no reason.
This isn't about copyright, it's about Google's money.
 

Offline Khaos

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2018, 05:13:36 pm »
station240 is right on the money.

Although I had to look up what YouTube Premium is and apparently it's a rebranding of YouTube Red.
So after all these years, they finally thought that maybe calling it like a porn site was not the best name.
 

Online MrMobodies

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2018, 05:23:30 pm »

Youtube have banned Dave for making livestreams, simply because he was demonstrating an alternative to their paid service.

They have also cracked down on anyone making videos promoting/mentioning alternatives to youtube like Twitch.
Upload a video titled "watch my livestream on twitch" and watch it get deleted.

Youtube have lost the plot, and gotten into the murky area of anti competitive behavior and censorship of content for no reason.
This isn't about copyright, it's about Google's money.

So if Dave live streams separate content outside of Youtube whilst banned on youtube from live streaming there and on other platforms, he leaves no announcement on Youtube that he is live streaming elsewhere and youtube finds out, they can shut the channel down.

It just sounds like blackmail to me.
 

Online tautech

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2018, 05:48:06 pm »

Youtube have banned Dave for making livestreams, simply because he was demonstrating an alternative to their paid service.

They have also cracked down on anyone making videos promoting/mentioning alternatives to youtube like Twitch.
Upload a video titled "watch my livestream on twitch" and watch it get deleted.

Youtube have lost the plot, and gotten into the murky area of anti competitive behavior and censorship of content for no reason.
This isn't about copyright, it's about Google's money.

So if Dave live streams separate content outside of Youtube whilst banned on youtube from live streaming there and on other platforms, he leaves no announcement on Youtube that he is live streaming elsewhere and youtube finds out, they can shut the channel down.

It just sounds like blackmail to me.
Certainly anti competitive behavior.
They probably best watch their backs if the legislators get wind of it.
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Online MrMobodies

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2018, 06:17:54 pm »
That kind of behaviour tends to put me off purchasing premium which I already did oh well it is too late now.

Sorry a bit ambiguous there, what I mean is what are the chances of them shutting down the EEVBLOGS Youtube channels if Dave is caught elsewhere live streaming unannounced and gets enough strikes.

You can see what I mean my blackmail.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2018, 07:27:59 pm »
I don't get it why Google strikes for explaining how to download a Youtube video, when the first Google search link links exactly to a site where you can do this.
Just because it exists on the internet, it doesn't mean Google is OK with it. They don't want it on THEIR platform. Censoring search results is prickly territory, even though they do it already to some degree.

Except youtube provide a means to download videos themselves, it's part of Youtube Premium.
OK so if you pay for premium, then maybe you are buying some limited rights to it. And even then, it might be locked by some kind of DRM. It's the same as illegally downloading music, versus buying it on iTunes.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:34:07 pm by timelessbeing »
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2018, 07:30:41 pm »
It just sounds like blackmail to me.
Blackmail means extorting money from someone in exchange for not revealing something compromising about them. I don't see how that applies.

This isn't about copyright, it's about Google's money.
These days, copyright is about money.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:37:22 pm by timelessbeing »
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2018, 07:44:54 pm »
Dave you are appealing the decision right? Have you heard back?

Appealed straight away, haven't heard back. You only have a few hundred characters to write your reply, so impossible to explain things properly.
Perhaps you can spend a few characters for a bit.ly link to a eevblog post with a longer explanation?
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2018, 08:00:40 pm »
It just sounds like blackmail to me.
Blackmail means extorting money from someone in exchange for not revealing something compromising about them. I don't see how that applies.

Wrong term.  Try "Extortion".
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2018, 08:34:14 pm »
Try "Extortion".
Except that nobody is holding a gun to Dave's head. If he doesn't like the terms, he can leave Youtube.


I wonder if Dave knows who owns the rights to his content?
Like if he decided to switch platforms one day, would he be able to re-upload his old content there?
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2018, 08:53:02 pm »
Certainly anti competitive behavior.
It's not that simple. Youtube invested into EEVBLOG to help make it what it is. That entitles them to certain rights. It's also how TV works.

However, if Dave were to start a new series called "Dumpster Divers" (it would be a reality show of course), and broadcast it on Vimeo or whatever, then Youtube would have no legitimate say in it.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2018, 09:20:13 pm »
Try "Extortion".
Except that nobody is holding a gun to Dave's head. If he doesn't like the terms, he can leave Youtube.

Extortion does not need a literal gun to someone's head - just a threat to something of value.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2018, 11:14:32 pm »
 :palm: I don't know what language you're speaking.

Youtube are saying "If you don't follow our rules (which you agreed to), then you can't work for us." There's no violation of law, or Dave's freedom here.

You might say it's greedy. It's not extortion.

The real question here, is did Dave break the rules. I think it should fall under fair use for education.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2018, 11:55:00 pm »
I wonder if Dave knows who owns the rights to his content?
Like if he decided to switch platforms one day, would he be able to re-upload his old content there?

I own it.
Youtube get the typical "non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual license". So even if I deleted my entire channel I guess they could bring my content back and I'd get no say in that.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2018, 11:55:50 pm »
The real question here, is did Dave break the rules. I think it should fall under fair use for education.

I think I did, and as I said in the video I don't blame then for the strike. But disabling my streaming is stupid.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2018, 11:57:11 pm »
Sorry a bit ambiguous there, what I mean is what are the chances of them shutting down the EEVBLOGS Youtube channels if Dave is caught elsewhere live streaming unannounced and gets enough strikes.

Only if I announce it on Youtube itself. I'm free to stream anywhere else I like.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2018, 12:00:10 am »
Breaking Youtube terms does not make something illegal -- against the law.
I don't think they would use the term so loosely. That would be idiotic and just plain wrong.
Using 3rd party software to circumvent measures designed to protect IP, however, is considered (in the USA) to be illegal, unless allowed by fair use rights. Dave being Australian ... I don't know what that does.

Youtube do not own the content, they only have a license to use it. Therefore they cannot sue you for copyright infringement, that's up to the owner of the content. All they can do it terminate your account based on their ToS.
 

Offline SparkyFX

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2018, 04:23:02 am »
It is always hard to argue about the definition of Terms of Service while actually appealing the strike itself.
The pattern matched a definition of some sort and the punishment is to disable features on the platform for the punished account.

I agree that it is a ridiculous and very narrow sighted decision in this case, otoh those people are paid for cases per hour and rather have the punishment hit too many accounts than too few. Why? Because the next case might argue that there are other videos with similar content that were never punished albeit reported for doing the same. Blocking a feature for 3 months isnĀ“t the end of the world, but removes the foundation for bad actors to argue on. Not the worst outcome from the perspective of a paid community moderator, ridiculous when looked at in detail, anyhow, the definition of TOS for the individual user is probably impossible to argue on with the moderators. You would need a petition or other leverage to actually do something about it at a higher instance.

Therefore the membership duration or amount of subscribers of the channel has a lower priority than most might think, i mean the biggest channels made huge mistakes / tested the borders and that caused lots of problems to the platform. Those were imho more or less trolling by personality / type of channel, and will probably continue to do so, but no one measures that.

Those cases also mean that these factors do not help with the decision, or have special set of rules above a certain amount of subscribers/membership duration/amount of videos.

My biggest concern about the commercial aspect of youtube is that creators are more or less employees (somewhat dependent in a similar fashion), without being called so, without the duties, but also without the associated rights.
 

Online MrMobodies

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2018, 08:10:06 am »
It just sounds like blackmail to me.
Blackmail means extorting money from someone in exchange for not revealing something compromising about them. I don't see how that applies.

Wrong term.  Try "Extortion".

Yes, silly me I got the wrong term.
I got use to hearing other using it loosely.

Extortion in coercion.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: Youtube Community Strike
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2018, 09:05:13 am »
Youtube do not own the content, they only have a license to use it. Therefore they cannot sue you for copyright infringement, that's up to the owner of the content. All they can do it terminate your account based on their ToS.

It's important here to make a distinction. Copyright infringement -- using somebody else's copyrighted work to make money -- is one thing. There might be different laws in play here. The act of circumventing copyright protection measures (eg downloading content) is, in itself illegal, thanks to DMCA.

And if that's not the case, then I would ask them what is "illegal" about the depicted activities. Or are they simply trying silly scare tactics.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 09:11:53 am by timelessbeing »
 


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