FLIR TG130 Amazon UK Black Friday sale, worth getting?

[Gyro]

I've just noticed that Amazon UK have the FLIR TG130 on offer for £167.70 for the next few hours (3 to be precise).

I've looked around on ebay and apart from the cheap 32x32 sensor imports there doesn't seem anything to match it on the price (the FLIR is 80x60 Lepton 2 I think).

Opinions on getting one on a limited budget please?

Other FLIR options seem at least £100 more.


EDIT: Sorry, forgot the link... https://www.amazon.co.uk/FLIR-TG130-Thermal-Camera-Black/dp/B01ALSO84E/ref=sr_1_1?s=black-friday&psr=EY17&ie=UTF8&qid=1511030735&sr=1-1&keywords=thermal+camera&dpID=41Jn5rmntdL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

[Fraser]

Hi Chris,

I have always liked the look of the TG130. Very neat.

BUT.... for me, the Lepton 2 core resolution of 80 x 60 is too low for most jobs I use a TIC for. For this reason I have not bought one. If it contained a Lepton3, I would buy it.

The TG130 has temperature measurement but is really an enhanced FLIR version of the pretty poor FLUKE VT02 and VT04 visual thermometers.

If you read the specs and accept that it is the simplest of designs with virtually no menu options, then it may be a good buy.

For me, personally, I have recently been buying far more capable thermal cameras for £100 to £250. While I can obtain such, I have no need of the TG130 except as a curio. I have little room for marginal performance cameras.

If you want a simple 'point and measure' non contact thermometer that provides a more visual context, and far better measurement spot size, it is fine. For any form of more advanced work, I think you will grow out of it quickly. Remember, 80 x 60 pixels covering the provided 55 x 43 degrees field of view is not much detail. An FOV of 20 or even 12 degrees would have been better, but they are using a standard Lepton2 lens.

Best Wishes

Fraser

[Gyro]

Hi Fraser,

Many thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

I suspected that it probably had (most of) the limitations that you indicate. I'm happy with minimal interface point and measure, mainly around the house and the odd circuit board. The FOV is probably the main issue as you say, minimum focus distance of 4" will hopefully compensate to an extent if I go in close.

Given my also limited budget (and lacking your purchasing success!) I may go for it.

Thanks again for your advice.

Best Regards,

Chris.

[Fraser]

If you buy it, go on ebay and buy a small ZnSe CO2 laser cutter lens with an FL of 63 or 100mm. Mount the lens in front of the TF130 lens aperture. That will provide you with a decent close-up capability for PCB work. I would be very surprised if you get much of an image with the standard Lepton2 lens as close as 4". A ZnSe lens of 12mm diameter or greater should be fine. I personally buy 20mm diameter ZnSe lenses as I can use them on various cameras with larger objective lenses. They are very affordable.

An example is here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZnSe-Focal-Lens-Dia12mm-18mm-20mm-FL-50-8mm-63-5mm-for-CO2-Laser/253085972561?hash=item3aed197851:m:mOqxVOWDHQYmfvWFeQvHhsg

[Gyro]

An excellent idea, thank you.

I hadn't realised that It would be quite so simple (or affordable). I'd forgotten that I'll be able to check that the result is in focus (to the resolution of the sensor anyway).

I think that clinches it for me, thanks again.

[Fraser]

Take a look at this thread on adding a close-up lens to a FLIR One G2. the process and lens used is the same on a TG130. You just need to come up with a mounting method that suits the TG130 case design.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-one-closeup-lens/

Fraser

[Fraser]

This would have been a great buy.......

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(fs)-nec-avio-f30s-thermal-camera-mikroshot-b-160x120/msg1353207/#msg1353207

I would not sell mine for such a low price, that is for sure

Fraser

[tggzzz]

Simple point about "low" prices shortly before big shopping events such as Christmas... Why on earth would a company choose to sell something very cheaply at that time?

After a big event is different, of course.
A small discount is different, of course.

[PlainName]

Why on earth would a company choose to sell something very cheaply at that time?

Shift old stock to make room for the newer, pricier stuff. Or as loss-leaders to attract people who then buy other stuff which won't normally shift. Or just to get a reputation as the go-to place, and then later they they aren't that cheap but still benefit from inertia.

[nctnico]

Isn't the TG130 a glorified spot thermometer? IIRC I looked into it but decided not to buy it because it seems like a waste of money to me. I got a Flir C2 instead which works well for me for electronics work but the MSX function isn't useful for close up work.

[tggzzz]

Why on earth would a company choose to sell something very cheaply at that time?

Shift old stock to make room for the newer, pricier stuff.

Wrong time. They should be doing that before they are stocking up for the Big Event.

Or as loss-leaders to attract people who then buy other stuff which won't normally shift. Or just to get a reputation as the go-to place, and then later they they aren't that cheap but still benefit from inertia.

Those can be done at any time.

The simple explanation is to sucker the unwary with bargains that aren't really bargains. TANSTAAFL.

[Gyro]

Isn't the TG130 a glorified spot thermometer? IIRC I looked into it but decided not to buy it because it seems like a waste of money to me. I got a Flir C2 instead which works well for me for electronics work but the MSX function isn't useful for close up work.

Well, yes, I guess it does depends on your definition of glorified spot thermometer - FLIR describe it as a 'spot thermal camera'. It shares the same 80x60 thermal resolution as the C2 (don't know if they are the same Lepton version) and also the TG165. No MSX obviously (but if you have to turn it off for close up...) and just a single crosshair spot temperature readout. If you're just interested in looking for things that are hotter or cooler than expected and taking their temperature then hopefully it will suffice, especially if you can live without storing IR images. I've no doubt at all that the C2 is an excellent product, it's just an expensive one.

Given the current 'offer' prices of £288 for the TG165 and £549 for the C2, those are huge price differentials when on a tight budget. The TG130 has gone back up to £210 now, so the issue is probably moot. I'll be interested to see what experementing with ZnSe lenses, as Fraser suggests, yields. Unfortunately that will have to wait for Christmas. 

@tggzzz:
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make... If the TG165 or the C2 suddenly drop to the sub £200 mark in the January sales, or before, (or the TG130 goes sub £150 for that matter) then you'll clearly have been right. I very much doubt it will happen though. If they don't, then they're outside my acceptable budget.

Why on earth would a company choose to sell something very cheaply at that time?

Absolutely no idea, but it's nice when they do. Most people start their 'big event' shopping before December.

[tggzzz]

...

@tggzzz:
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make... If the TG165 or the C2 suddenly drop to the sub £200 mark in the January sales, or before, (or the TG130 goes sub £150 for that matter) then you'll clearly have been right. I very much doubt it will happen though. If they don't, then they're outside my acceptable budget.

Why on earth would a company choose to sell something very cheaply at that time?

Absolutely no idea, but it's nice when they do. Most people start their 'big event' shopping before December.

Since you don't indicate which of my comments you are referring to (hint: use the quote button), I can't help you. BTW I almost missed your response since it was "invisibly" buried in a response to nctnico (hint: don't combine multiple independent responses into one posting).

Apart from that, surprise surprise, "60% of Black Friday prices aren’t the lowest of the year, Which? reveals"
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/11/60-of-black-friday-prices-arent-the-lowest-of-the-year-which-reveals/

Who'd a thunk it!

[nctnico]

Isn't the TG130 a glorified spot thermometer? IIRC I looked into it but decided not to buy it because it seems like a waste of money to me. I got a Flir C2 instead which works well for me for electronics work but the MSX function isn't useful for close up work.

Well, yes, I guess it does depends on your definition of glorified spot thermometer - FLIR describe it as a 'spot thermal camera'. It shares the same 80x60 thermal resolution as the C2 (don't know if they are the same Lepton version) and also the TG165. No MSX obviously (but if you have to turn it off for close up...) and just a single crosshair spot temperature readout.

Sure the C2 is more expensive but it also has features like being able to lock the temperature scale. This has been very helpful to find shorted windings in a coil made from PCB traces. When looking for a thermal camera my own conclusion was that anything below the C2 is just a waste of money. The lesser models have a thermal imaging display but if it isn't accurate then it is useless. AFAIK the C2 can be hacked to show multiple cross hairs but I never looked into that.

[joun]

If you buy it, go on ebay and buy a small ZnSe CO2 laser cutter lens with an FL of 63 or 100mm. Mount the lens in front of the TF130 lens aperture. That will provide you with a decent close-up capability for PCB work. I would be very surprised if you get much of an image with the standard Lepton2 lens as close as 4". A ZnSe lens of 12mm diameter or greater should be fine. I personally buy 20mm diameter ZnSe lenses as I can use them on various cameras with larger objective lenses. They are very affordable.

An example is here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZnSe-Focal-Lens-Dia12mm-18mm-20mm-FL-50-8mm-63-5mm-for-CO2-Laser/253085972561?hash=item3aed197851:m:mOqxVOWDHQYmfvWFeQvHhsg

Since  own a Flir TG165  I find that very intersting..You mean  I have to mount the lense you linked to and I will be able to do a "closer" close up?
If so I have to make it removable and not permanent,right?

[Gyro]

@tggzzz,

...

@tggzzz:
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make... If the TG165 or the C2 suddenly drop to the sub £200 mark in the January sales, or before, (or the TG130 goes sub £150 for that matter) then you'll clearly have been right. I very much doubt it will happen though. If they don't, then they're outside my acceptable budget.

Why on earth would a company choose to sell something very cheaply at that time?

Absolutely no idea, but it's nice when they do. Most people start their 'big event' shopping before December.

Since you don't indicate which of my comments you are referring to (hint: use the quote button), I can't help you. BTW I almost missed your response since it was "invisibly" buried in a response to nctnico (hint: don't combine multiple independent responses into one posting).

Apart from that, surprise surprise, "60% of Black Friday prices aren’t the lowest of the year, Which? reveals"
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/11/60-of-black-friday-prices-arent-the-lowest-of-the-year-which-reveals/

Who'd a thunk it!

Yes, I know perfectly well how to use the quote function and no it really didn't seem worth the effort of quoting the contents either of your previous replies! My reply to you was clearly secondary. I wasn't expecting a reply, I was just stating that I was glad that they had chosen to drop the price - no help needed.

I really don't know what your motivation is with this...

I saw the offer, posted, giving the remaining time and asked for some advice. Fraser replied with some very helpful (as always) technical feedback.

You chipped in with some very cyptic comments, which as far as I can understand it, 'why would companies discount things before what you consider to be the Christmas shopping season'.  From your latest post it seems to be:  'People who buy things in a Black Friday sale are suckers and Which? agrees with me  '.

Bottom line: It is the cheapest I have seen this [Edit: or any] FLIR product for sale, my budget is limited and the timing was right. The offer ended 3 hours after my original post, in that time I was lucky enough to receive helpful feedback. You didn't contribute any useful technical feedback.

If the offer comes around again at a meaningfully lower price in the next couple of month, then I'm probably a sucker and you'll doubtless be pleased. Was it worth the risk for me? No. Are any of the more expensive FLIR products going to be discounted by more than 50% to come within my budget? No. Do I care about your opinion on anything other than strictly technical matters? No!


Edit: Count to 10, breath. It's really not worth getting into stupid arguments.

[Gyro]

If you buy it, go on ebay and buy a small ZnSe CO2 laser cutter lens with an FL of 63 or 100mm. Mount the lens in front of the TF130 lens aperture. That will provide you with a decent close-up capability for PCB work. I would be very surprised if you get much of an image with the standard Lepton2 lens as close as 4". A ZnSe lens of 12mm diameter or greater should be fine. I personally buy 20mm diameter ZnSe lenses as I can use them on various cameras with larger objective lenses. They are very affordable.

An example is here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZnSe-Focal-Lens-Dia12mm-18mm-20mm-FL-50-8mm-63-5mm-for-CO2-Laser/253085972561?hash=item3aed197851:m:mOqxVOWDHQYmfvWFeQvHhsg

Since  own a Flir TG165  I find that very intersting..You mean  I have to mount the lense you linked to and I will be able to do a "closer" close up?
If so I have to make it removable and not permanent,right?

Me too (obviously). It's probably worth moving the discussion back to the Thermal Imaging section but I am looking forward to doing some experimenting. My understanding of what Fraser said is, yes, it would be for close work only so would have to be easilly removable (unless you do nothing else). I am wondering about things like how close the second lens would need to be mounted - the design of the TG130 look as if the lens diameter must be closely related to how far it is mounted from the window. If I could get away with a larger lens mounted on the front of the casing then it would be much easier to mount - I suspect it is the same for you too.