LFS:: List of reliable EBay sellers!

[xibalban]

Hey folks,

Could you be kind to list reliable EBay sellers with links to their EBay Stores, who fall into the following three basic categories:

• Non-US Sellers who provide free International Shipping
• US-Based Sellers who provide free International Shipping
• All other Sellers who offer great deals with minimal International Shipping charges

Remember, the Sellers must have impeccable customer satisfaction track record, and must be known for delivering genuine products at competitive prices.

I'd start with Franky, and his thread (Originally recommended by Thor-Arne)

[Shock]

On Ebay there is a system called "search", "sort by price + shipping: lowest first", "feedback" and "buyer protection". This gives you all the information and guarantees you get what you ordered at the price you wanted it at.

I'm sure you and the guy who wanted to list every cheap oscilloscope from Ebay on Eevblog mean well but Ebay made this almost trivial many years ago.

[TerraHertz]

who provide free International Shipping

Which pretty much cuts the field down to Chinese sellers, I think. Is that what you intended?

[xibalban]

who provide free International Shipping

Which pretty much cuts the field down to Chinese sellers, I think. Is that what you intended?

Why? Don't any of those top-rated American sellers provide free International Shipping? You'd find plenty at Amazon, for instance. However, I like the EBay method of rating sellers, further improved by the buyer protection policy.

By impeccable track record, I also implied - sellers that one could feel comfortable dealing outside the EBay eco-system and perhaps offer a little discount once in a while (just like Franky). Thanks for passing by  .

[Falcon69]

Because US shipping costs are very high.

A Chinese seller can sell a 99 cent item on eBay and ship to the US, no problem.  But to sell that same 99 cent item in the US and ship to even another state within the US, could cost a minimum of $2.30.  Let alone, shipping that same item outside the US, could cost more then $50.  I don't know how the Chinese can ship so cheaply.  But they do.

[mswhin63]

The only way would be the Chinese government are fully subsidising delivery for manufacturers.

[pickle9000]

The only way would be the Chinese government are fully subsidising delivery for manufacturers.

My understanding is that shipping is subsidized (small items) as long as the seller reports it on his/her earnings. That allows the govt to more closely track export of small items.

[edavid]

Of course shipping is cheaper from China... the major expense in running a postal service is labor, which is obviously cheaper in China.

[pickle9000]

Of course shipping is cheaper from China... the major expense in running a postal service is labor, which is obviously cheaper in China.

Remember they only have to get it to the other country. After that the other post office takes over, there is no money involved they don't have give the receiving country anything.

[xibalban]

Because US shipping costs are very high.

A Chinese seller can sell a 99 cent item on eBay and ship to the US, no problem.  But to sell that same 99 cent item in the US and ship to even another state within the US, could cost a minimum of $2.30.  Let alone, shipping that same item outside the US, could cost more then $50.  I don't know how the Chinese can ship so cheaply.  But they do.

In light of the above, don't you feel that the US too must adopt similar measures to let the world access their products?
Anyway, why are most people wary of Chinese products, as product assembly processes are mostly outsourced to China anyway?
I can feel that their ability to produce "at par" products at "half" the price, makes other manufacturers feel very uneasy. For instance, India has "temporarily banned" the sale of MiUI phones, which in my experience are better than most of their counterparts as it is, disregarding their affordability. 

[pickle9000]

Because US shipping costs are very high.

A Chinese seller can sell a 99 cent item on eBay and ship to the US, no problem.  But to sell that same 99 cent item in the US and ship to even another state within the US, could cost a minimum of $2.30.  Let alone, shipping that same item outside the US, could cost more then $50.  I don't know how the Chinese can ship so cheaply.  But they do.

In light of the above, don't you feel that the US too must adopt similar measures to let the world access their products?
Anyway, why are most people wary of Chinese products, as product assembly processes are mostly outsourced to China anyway?
I can feel that their ability to produce "at par" products at "half" the price, makes other manufacturers feel very uneasy. For instance, India has "temporarily banned" the sale of MiUI phones, which in my experience are better than most of their counterparts as it is, disregarding their affordability.

In the case of China they are raising the cost of shipping in the receiving country by increasing the overall load. That load is reflected in higher postal rates inside the receiving country.

[xibalban]

Anyway, what's the scene in the European Union? Aren't there good sellers available there, in Germany for instance, who could be trusted on a personal level.
How's the shipping costs there? Perhaps, a fellow forum member from the European  Union could shed some useful light.

[madires]

Actually, you shouldn't buy from commercial sellers in Germany. Most of them are trying to rip you off with insane prices for old and used stuff. OTOH, private sellers are mostly ok, but it's not easy to find bargains in the EE department. I have stopped using ebay a few years ago. The common shipping costs inside Germany are around 7 Euros (DHL packet, track-ID, insured up to 500 EUR). International shipping would be around 25-35 Euros.

[xibalban]

Actually, you shouldn't buy from commercial sellers in Germany. Most of them are trying to rip you off with insane prices for old and used stuff. OTOH, private sellers are mostly ok, but it's not easy to find bargains in the EE department. I have stopped using ebay a few years ago. The common shipping costs inside Germany are around 7 Euros (DHL packet, track-ID, insured up to 500 EUR). International shipping would be around 25-35 Euros.

Yikes  !!! International shipping at 25 EUR, no wonder the Chinese are proliferating at the current rate. Thanks for that first-hand information from Germany  .

[lpc32]

The common shipping costs inside Germany are around 7 Euros (DHL packet, track-ID, insured up to 500 EUR).

Why DHL and not Deutsche Post?

[ehsmeng]

The Chinese are not stupid. It's value creating production that creates wealth in a country. Not jobs where tax&vat are just stirred around.

Simplified: If a (worst case, usually ppl buy more) a $1 product is sold, and China subsidizes shipping by 50c, China on the whole benefited if at least 50c in value was created when they produced it. *)

I checked the conditions for Ali*, and they require you to be a Chinese company to use it. So, there they got even more investors to decide to put a production plant there instead of say a cheap eastern Europe country. (Ali*'s decision is surely also based on the subsidized shipping).

Sorry for the rant.

*) If I buy a log, I pay say $100? If I chop up the log into planks and make a nice table, it might be worth $1000. I created $900 in value. This is what build up the US and EU. Not high taxes.

[madires]

Why DHL and not Deutsche Post?

DHL = Deutsche Post 

[lpc32]

Owned by the same company, but are the shipping services the same? I thought DHL is like UPS or FedEx (= expensive), and Deutsche Post is like USPS (= less expensive to cheap). I've seen people on eBay offer international registered mail from Germany for about 5 EUR on things that weigh a few 100 grams, and less for smaller/simpler things. Also roughly similar prices from the UK.

On Ebay there is a system called "search", "sort by price + shipping: lowest first", "feedback" and "buyer protection". This gives you all the information and guarantees you get what you ordered at the price you wanted it at.

It's not that simple. The feedback is based on what you know upon arrival. It's not always easy to tell if a component is authentic, and there's no way to know in advance its long-term behavior. Another thing which I find unfortunate is that the feedback is per-seller, not per-product.

But anyway most people aren't that picky, and eBay encourages feedback that isn't fine-grained. For example, in the detailed ratings, despite the supposedly 5-level rating system I think eBay kicks sellers who stay at <4.5 for more than a while. In such a scale I'd normally interpret 3 as "average", but in eBay's system, and with how many people vote anyway, it's really just a binary vote.

[Richard Crowley]

"DHL" stands for Dalsey, Hillblom & Lynn, the surnames of the founders, university students in San Francisco in 1969.
Deutsche Post began to acquire shares in DHL in 1998, finally reaching majority ownership in 2001. Following the completion of the purchase in 2002, Deutsche Post effectively absorbed DHL into its Express division, while expanding the use of the DHL brand to other Deutsche Post divisions, business units and subsidiaries. Today, DHL Express shares its well-known DHL brand with other Deutsche Post business units, such as DHL Global Forwarding, DHL Freight, DHL Supply Chain, and DHL Global Mail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHL_Express

[lpc32]

Ownership doesn't say anything about service types and prices.

[dom0]

DHL, DHL Express and Deutsche Post are basically the same company and the usage of the brands have some overlap. But to clear up a bit:

- Deutsche Post: Letters and large letters ("Maxibrief"). I think the heaviest thing you can ship with Deutsche Post is 1000 g
- DHL: Standard parcel (all insured to at least 500 €, pricing starts at 6 €), and Päckchen (a small uninsured parcel w/o tracking for up to 2 kg, I think it costs around 3.50 € (*)). Also some special stuff. Largest thing you can ship is something like 32 kilos. DHL parcel inside Germany usually arrive at the next work day or the one after that.
- DHL Express: essentially like UPS, premium carrier. Fast and expensive.

(*) I only lost one parcel, ever, and it was a Päckchen. OTOH I am very sure that it was fraud by the buyer. I never shipped anything as a Päckchen ever since in a commercial context (stuff sold, RMA, ...).

——

I can confirm that the German used test & measurement market is completely busted. This - AFAIK - originates from a German law (ElektroG) that makes it cheaper and simpler for companies to recycle/shred surplus equipment than to sell it, thus leading to a small market. You have a very hard time to find anything more recent than early nineties, except for common stuff like DMMs, scopes etc.. The prices are very high, even in auctions. 150-200 € (~200-300 USD) for an analog(!) function generator in the "few MHz"-range is rather common. Everything with a name like "HP", "Racal Dana", "Keithley" on it sells for a lot of money. Even the switch controllers, which I conceive as a benchmark for low-end dirt-cheap T&M gear, sells for quite some money (>60 € ~ >80 USD, much more in some cases).

It is usually a lot cheaper to buy elsewhere, e.g. in Belgium, Netherlands, France, Italy, sometimes UK. Shipping costs are in the 30 € range for these countries, but the prices are a lot better. You can get a decent DDS function gen for under 200 € in these countries (shipping to Germany included).

I bought some stuff in the US, for example: My HP 3478A. With shipping, taxes etc. it cost me around 130 € (calibrated). IIRC half of the price was shipping and taxes, the actual item was 99 $ I think.
In Germany a working, calibrated 3478A sells for something like 200 € upwards.

And don't even get me started about the commercial dealers in Germany. Helmut Singer, Rosenkranz et al have horrid prices. You don't even want to take a look. However, taking a look may be of advantage ... in very rare cases. I bought my 3581A at Singer for 50 € (as-is, untested, missing knobs). Repair was trivial, ex-Bundeswehr stock, well maintained, often calibrated. I guess they took some minor parts and knobs to repair another unit. HOWEVER: I have never seen any offer like this since then at any of the commercial dealers. And I didn't ever seen one before. I attribute this single instance to one-off luck.

There are some (rare) flea markets in Germany where you can get sometimes a good deal. But you're really going to have a hard time getting a good deal online. In some cities there are small gear traders who usually have better prices, too, but their stuff is usually ancient.

tl;dr: don't buy used T&M stuff in Germany. Except if you are walking around in Germany and know the flea markets. Then you might get a good deal.

---

Buying T&M internationally

There are some sellers that are well-known to sell "doesn't power up" equipment which is barely more than the case, a few knobs and connectors, stripped of everything of worth. Read the ratings, including positive ones. Sometimes they go like "Yeah, well, it's according to the description, but it's really just an empty box". Don't buy anything from those. Except if you collect HP cases. Then buy from those as much as you can.

Always mind the taxes. If you're in the EU you can just add item value + shipping costs and multiply by 1.2-1.3 and you're usually very close to the final price (except for those where no tax applies).

Don't. ever. buy. via. eBay's global shipping programme. It's nothing more than a rip-off. Shipping internationally and handling the import yourself is more reliable and a lot more cheaper. If you have some excellent offer, but the seller won't ship internationally you can use a mail forwarding service. It's still cheaper than GSP. And, at least the last time I used the GSP, I didn't even get the correct papers. And the package was not cleared by customs. I think that says just about everything you have to know about GSP. They're neither easier, nor cheaper nor faster nor ANYTHING better than doing it yourself.

Example: Last time I bought something via GSP they charged me 80 $ import taxes + fees. The package wouldn't been subject to import tax (only import sales tax, whole different thing. the import salex tax usually dominates, it's 19 % on top of (item price + shipping costs) * import tax). And naturally I would not have had to pay any fees at all for a normal import. I don't know if all EU countries do it like this, but in Germany customs do not impose extra handling fees. If you do it correctly (e.g. you fill out the correct forms with the correct numbers, send it to your mail forwarder, which prints out the forms and puts them on your package) you don't even need to leave the warmth of your house to import something. If you didn't you need to get to your customs office, bring the filled out form or fill it out there, pay the taxes and take your package with you. It's that easy.

With some experience you can handle an import in a few minutes, and it's all legal and ironclad. Which the GSP does not seem to be, given that you neither get the correct papers nor a customs-cleared-sticker on your package with the GSP. Actually I think they just take all the money and hope it slips trough customs (which like 95 % of all parcel does, by the way).

[xibalban]

DHL, DHL Express and Deutsche Post are basically the same company and the usage of the brands have some overlap. But to clear up a bit:

- Deutsche Post: Letters and large letters ("Maxibrief"). I think the heaviest thing you can ship with Deutsche Post is 1000 g
- DHL: Standard parcel (all insured to at least 500 €, pricing starts at 6 €), and Päckchen (a small uninsured parcel w/o tracking for up to 2 kg, I think it costs around 3.50 € (*)). Also some special stuff. Largest thing you can ship is something like 32 kilos. DHL parcel inside Germany usually arrive at the next work day or the one after that.
- DHL Express: essentially like UPS, premium carrier. Fast and expensive.

(*) I only lost one parcel, ever, and it was a Päckchen. OTOH I am very sure that it was fraud by the buyer. I never shipped anything as a Päckchen ever since in a commercial context (stuff sold, RMA, ...).

——

I can confirm that the German used test & measurement market is completely busted. This - AFAIK - originates from a German law (ElektroG) that makes it cheaper and simpler for companies to recycle/shred surplus equipment than to sell it, thus leading to a small market. You have a very hard time to find anything more recent than early nineties, except for common stuff like DMMs, scopes etc.. The prices are very high, even in auctions. 150-200 € (~200-300 USD) for an analog(!) function generator in the "few MHz"-range is rather common. Everything with a name like "HP", "Racal Dana", "Keithley" on it sells for a lot of money. Even the switch controllers, which I conceive as a benchmark for low-end dirt-cheap T&M gear, sells for quite some money (>60 € ~ >80 USD, much more in some cases).

It is usually a lot cheaper to buy elsewhere, e.g. in Belgium, Netherlands, France, Italy, sometimes UK. Shipping costs are in the 30 € range for these countries, but the prices are a lot better. You can get a decent DDS function gen for under 200 € in these countries (shipping to Germany included).

I bought some stuff in the US, for example: My HP 3478A. With shipping, taxes etc. it cost me around 130 € (calibrated). IIRC half of the price was shipping and taxes, the actual item was 99 $ I think.
In Germany a working, calibrated 3478A sells for something like 200 € upwards.

And don't even get me started about the commercial dealers in Germany. Helmut Singer, Rosenkranz et al have horrid prices. You don't even want to take a look. However, taking a look may be of advantage ... in very rare cases. I bought my 3581A at Singer for 50 € (as-is, untested, missing knobs). Repair was trivial, ex-Bundeswehr stock, well maintained, often calibrated. I guess they took some minor parts and knobs to repair another unit. HOWEVER: I have never seen any offer like this since then at any of the commercial dealers. And I didn't ever seen one before. I attribute this single instance to one-off luck.

There are some (rare) flea markets in Germany where you can get sometimes a good deal. But you're really going to have a hard time getting a good deal online. In some cities there are small gear traders who usually have better prices, too, but their stuff is usually ancient.

tl;dr: don't buy used T&M stuff in Germany. Except if you are walking around in Germany and know the flea markets. Then you might get a good deal.

---

Buying T&M internationally

There are some sellers that are well-known to sell "doesn't power up" equipment which is barely more than the case, a few knobs and connectors, stripped of everything of worth. Read the ratings, including positive ones. Sometimes they go like "Yeah, well, it's according to the description, but it's really just an empty box". Don't buy anything from those. Except if you collect HP cases. Then buy from those as much as you can.

Always mind the taxes. If you're in the EU you can just add item value + shipping costs and multiply by 1.2-1.3 and you're usually very close to the final price (except for those where no tax applies).

Don't. ever. buy. via. eBay's global shipping programme. It's nothing more than a rip-off. Shipping internationally and handling the import yourself is more reliable and a lot more cheaper. If you have some excellent offer, but the seller won't ship internationally you can use a mail forwarding service. It's still cheaper than GSP. And, at least the last time I used the GSP, I didn't even get the correct papers. And the package was not cleared by customs. I think that says just about everything you have to know about GSP. They're neither easier, nor cheaper nor faster nor ANYTHING better than doing it yourself.

Example: Last time I bought something via GSP they charged me 80 $ import taxes + fees. The package wouldn't been subject to import tax (only import sales tax, whole different thing. the import salex tax usually dominates, it's 19 % on top of (item price + shipping costs) * import tax). And naturally I would not have had to pay any fees at all for a normal import. I don't know if all EU countries do it like this, but in Germany customs do not impose extra handling fees. If you do it correctly (e.g. you fill out the correct forms with the correct numbers, send it to your mail forwarder, which prints out the forms and puts them on your package) you don't even need to leave the warmth of your house to import something. If you didn't you need to get to your customs office, bring the filled out form or fill it out there, pay the taxes and take your package with you. It's that easy.

With some experience you can handle an import in a few minutes, and it's all legal and ironclad. Which the GSP does not seem to be, given that you neither get the correct papers nor a customs-cleared-sticker on your package with the GSP. Actually I think they just take all the money and hope it slips trough customs (which like 95 % of all parcel does, by the way).

That was a lot of information, and I admire the patience and effort you took to share them here. Thank you  .

[LEDAero]

As someone that has to rely entirely on importing products (you literally can't even buy a resistor or capacitor in this country...) for my hobby, free shipping, paid for shipping, it doesn't really make much difference.

As an example: I am looking for a DMM, one seller has them for $39+ $30 shipping, the other has it for $68 including shipping.

Same goes for the DSO I want - one seller has them for $200 + $50 for shipping, vs another seller selling for $260 including shipping.

Swings and roundabouts.

I think I spent about US$1500 in shipping charges alone in 2014.

For those in Europe and the US complaining about the cost of postage... have some anglo-saxon epithets 

As well as shipping charges, I also have to contend with the time to cross from one side of the South China Sea to the other... I'm still waiting for some items that I bought on the 19th November...