My First Ebay return

[EEVblog]

So anyway, stupid me clicked on the "Approve return" option to see what was involved, as you were supposed to be able to chose various options first before sending it. But nope, that instantly starts a multi-step return process that is irreversible 
And yet, it specifically states the seller is fully liable for the return shipping cost.

[Towger]

Except for the fact that most people will browse for "used" items and not "for parts" items, so you get nearly as good a sale price.

Except that you can't. The new god awful eBay App does not have an option to search for items 'For parts not working'.  It returns 'for parts' items as 'Used' items. The previous version also did not have the 'for parts' option in searches. But at least saved searches worked, if you set them up on the proper website.

[grumpydoc]

A vendor I often buy from sells [iall[/i] his stuff as repair/parts, then puts a note in the description to say that the stuff is tested and working, etc, but he is selling as-is. That's the way to do it.

Except for the fact that most people will browse for "used" items and not "for parts" items, so you get nearly as good a sale price.

Agree though I think you meant "not as good a sale price"

Some vendors do that but they essentially say "used, works 100%" in the listing. I suspect that from a purely legal perspective this would trump the "for parts" in the condition box but you just know that you'd get a hard time trying to return it if it didn't work so I don't bother unless the price is so low that I don't mind if it doesn't work.

As a seller I almost always just accept the return at the buyer's expense, it's going to happen anyway so why put my blood pessure up?

I don't sell overseas though - for much this reason.

[PlainName]

A vendor I often buy from sells [iall[/i] his stuff as repair/parts, then puts a note in the description to say that the stuff is tested and working, etc, but he is selling as-is. That's the way to do it.

Except for the fact that most people will browse for "used" items and not "for parts" items, so you get nearly as good a sale price.

Yes, but them's the rules of the game. You don't get to make those up yourself when you choose to play.

I agree with all you say, but that's how it is. I suspect that once upon a time it was logical and fine, then people pushed the boundaries or just didn't bother to read stuff as they signed up, and now popular usage has drifted away from how it used to be. Kind of like how no-one uses red for solder side and blue for component side any more (because latecomers who jumped in fully formed had to choose and chose the 'other' way to 'normal' convention, and everyone that followed copied 'em).

[EEVblog]

Except that you can't. The new god awful eBay App does not have an option to search for items 'For parts not working'.  It returns 'for parts' items as 'Used' items. The previous version also did not have the 'for parts' option in searches. But at least saved searches worked, if you set them up on the proper website.

I don't know about any phone app, but the website has options for Used and Faulty/For Parts etc.
Extremely common to check the Used check box to weed out all the crappy new ads.

[EEVblog]

Agree though I think you meant "not as good a sale price"

Yes, that's what I meant.

I don't sell overseas though - for much this reason.

I usually don't either, and for some stupid reason I did on this one.

[rsjsouza]

A vendor I often buy from sells [iall[/i] his stuff as repair/parts, then puts a note in the description to say that the stuff is tested and working, etc, but he is selling as-is. That's the way to do it.

Except for the fact that most people will browse for "used" items and not "for parts" items, so you get nearly as good a sale price.

The way I see it, the name of the category is what probably drives a lot of people away. Its description is a bit more fair:
" For parts or not working: An item that does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, or items missing essential components. See the seller’s listing for full details"

My highlight above is what grants your listing as a "For parts or not working".

That is how most sellers here in the US do it, as the power of eBay seems stronger here. Selling something as complex as an oscilloscope is impossible to characterize in a simple few categories, but that is the system. IMHO they should have something similar to Amazon's marketplace (New, Used - Like New, Used - Acceptable, etc.), but the problem then becomes the subjective aspect of the categorization, which would only be fully regulated by the feedback system (which takes time to build).

All in all, it is a bummer but unfortunately any business suffers setbacks from time to time.

[EEVblog]

Except for the fact that most people will browse for "used" items and not "for parts" items, so you get nearly as good a sale price.

The way I see it, the name of the category is what probably drives a lot of people away. Its description is a bit more fair:
" For parts or not working: An item that does not function as intended and is not fully operational. This includes items that are defective in ways that render them difficult to use, items that require service or repair, or items missing essential components. See the seller’s listing for full details"

Correct, and that is why if you want the maximum audience for your product for your bit of gear then you have the sell it in the Used category.
Categories like scopes and meters are completely dominated by new stuff, so if you are searching for a used bit of gear you are going to tick the Used box. very few will also tick the Faulty box, and it's PITA to tick both anyway because you have to open another dialog box to do it.
IME I see very few people selling genuinely otherwise working gear marked as Faulty/Not Working unless they have absolutely no idea what it is.

[Towger]

I don't know about any phone app, but the website has options for Used and Faulty/For Parts etc.
Extremely common to check the Used check box to weed out all the crappy new ads.

For Parts is my favourite condition for eBay Items, I am pissed of with that app.
Anyway, if you get the scope back you can get a video, rant and (attempted) repair out of it.

[PlainName]

very few will also tick the Faulty box

Whoah! Is your kit faulty? If not, and you want to sell it as 'used', then you must be prepared to sell it as not faulty, which means it has to work and if it doesn't that's your problem.

If you want to sell it as 'probably works fine,  but not tested properly and no interest in resolving if it turns out to be duff', which is what I understand you to be actually selling as, then it is not 'used but working' and actually 'spare or repairs (but you might be lucky)'.

Beginning to fail to see anything but a self-generated problem here, sorry.

[EEVblog]

Beginning to fail to see anything but a self-generated problem here, sorry.

Strictly by ebays terms and conditions, probably, but that's the way used gear has been sold on ebay since the dawn of time.
Categories exist for a reason, they allow people for search for stuff. Faulty should be for known faulty gear. Start putting known or very highly likely working gear (e.g. both traces on a scope work) into the Faulty/Parts category and you are just screwing up the system.
Likewise the Used category should be for gear with no known faults.
How can anyone sell a piece of used test equipment on ebay and actually know it works 100%? You can't. Not even a formal calibration test house tests every aspect of a product over every range and feature.

Advising people to put things in the wrong category just to meet ebays stupid rigid formal return policy rules is not trying to fix the system, it's making it worse.
Ebays rules are stupid and do not match up with category realities.
They weren't also this bad BTW, the system used to work quite well.

[edavid]

Beginning to fail to see anything but a self-generated problem here, sorry.

Strictly by ebays terms and conditions, probably, but that's the way used gear has been sold on ebay since the dawn of time.

But didn't eBay make this change ("used = fully functional") in 2011?  Isn't that enough time to adjust?

Ebays rules are stupid and do not match up with category realities.
They weren't also this bad BTW, the system used to work quite well.

I have a different opinion, because I was ripped off by sellers much more often under the old system.  I definitely buy more because of the protections in the new system (even though it's still not perfect).

[rsjsouza]

Beginning to fail to see anything but a self-generated problem here, sorry.

Strictly by ebays terms and conditions, probably, but that's the way used gear has been sold on ebay since the dawn of time.

Well, from the more recent and strict eBay rules this is self-inflicted alright, although not with bad intention.

Dave, this may have been done for a long time, and it probably worked in more innocent times... However, I am pretty sure these rules exist and are being enforced simply because probably people have bent the rules of reason when describing the items. Modern times seem to follow clauses and text to the "T"... At least here in the US.

[KJDS]

I list my stuff as used when I believe it to be working ok. Do I test every last bit of functionality? of course not, that's just not practical even for a simple power supply.

Sometimes a customer finds a fault, which may happen due to a dry joint or a failing IC suffering during transport or it may be one I missed before shipping. It happens, it's just another business cost and so long as I can keep that to a very low percentage then I'll live with it.

I'll either arrange a partial refund for a minor issue that the customer can live with or provide the customer with a shipping label for the return and then refund or replace.

I'm not enamoured with ebay, it's a long way from perfect but it's worthwhile getting to know it's finer points before selling too much expensive stuff on there. Until it stops being the place with the widest customer reach for selling test gear then I'll keep using it.

[RJFreeman]

Except for the fact that most people will browse for "used" items and not "for parts" items, so you get nearly as good a sale price.

I dunno, I have a couple of Ebay searches "For parts or not working"?
But then maybe I am not most people.....

Although it can be amusing  the prices people start 'Parts or Not working' Auctions at, sometimes even more than working items, and then there is that chap who keeps listing used re-cone kits, carefully cut out of supposedly working speakers, and now completely unuseable.
Maybe he is hoping there is someone stupid enough out there, but I suspect anyone with who owns the Turbosound Subwoofers that use those drivers, is stupid enough to buy used recone kits....

[iampoor]

Wouldnt it be cheaper just to refund him rather than pay for return shipping? I ended up having to do that once where the return shipping cost more than the itemn was worth. 

[grumpydoc]

Wouldnt it be cheaper just to refund him rather than pay for return shipping? I ended up having to do that once where the return shipping cost more than the itemn was worth. 

I suspect that there is a small population of buyers who will seek a "not as described" return hoping that the seller will do exactly that with the result that they wind up with the item for free.

There is not much defence against this -  don't sell in the categories that are particularly prone to buyer scamming and don't ship anything if the return shipping would be more than a small fraction of the item's value. The latter essentially rules out international sales for the most part as far as I am concerned.

Dave said that he does not normally post items overseas - I suspect after this experience he will stick to that much more rigidly!

[iampoor]

Wouldnt it be cheaper just to refund him rather than pay for return shipping? I ended up having to do that once where the return shipping cost more than the itemn was worth. 

I suspect that there is a small population of buyers who will seek a "not as described" return hoping that the seller will do exactly that with the result that they wind up with the item for free.

There is not much defence against this -  don't sell in the categories that are particularly prone to buyer scamming and don't ship anything if the return shipping would be more than a small fraction of the item's value. The latter essentially rules out international sales for the most part as far as I am concerned.

Dave said that he does not normally post items overseas - I suspect after this experience he will stick to that much more rigidly!

Yep. Honestly its far too easy to do that on Ebay. Its a scam that doesnt take any effort really! I bet this happens to alot of Chinese sellers, any threat of negative feedback is an instant refund it seems like.

I am hoping Ebay creates a second used category for itemns that may have issues.

My only experiences with EBay and international shipping havew been pretty por. Especially things getting stuck in customs!!!

[PlainName]

for itemns that may have issues

What would you call it?

[iampoor]

for itemns that may have issues

What would you call it?

"Used As-Is"
The parts that are guaranteed to work would have to be spelled out.
IE: In Dave's case: "Powers on, shows Trace on blah blah blah blah settings".

That way sellers wuld be motivated to test (up to a point) and be honest. Of course, people will still selling items with faults...but the price paid should reflect that risk! Like any normal auction! 

[PlainName]

That sounds fair enough. Of course, the prices are likely to reflect that it's as-is and probably has faults where stuff isn't mentioned.

[iampoor]

That sounds fair enough. Of course, the prices are likely to reflect that it's as-is and probably has faults where stuff isn't mentioned.

Exactly. I think it would encourage sellers to be more through in listings however. Alot of Ebay sellers now just seem to not even try and assume the risk that a return might be inevitable. That discourages me from buying, I dont want to go through that hassle!

Will my idea ever happen? Probably not, Ebay seems to assume all sellers are naturally dishonest. 

[Seekonk]

Have a contest and let the US winner have it for the cost of shipping.

[hendorog]

Wouldnt it be cheaper just to refund him rather than pay for return shipping? I ended up having to do that once where the return shipping cost more than the itemn was worth. 

I suspect that there is a small population of buyers who will seek a "not as described" return hoping that the seller will do exactly that with the result that they wind up with the item for free.

There is not much defence against this -  don't sell in the categories that are particularly prone to buyer scamming and don't ship anything if the return shipping would be more than a small fraction of the item's value. The latter essentially rules out international sales for the most part as far as I am concerned.

Dave said that he does not normally post items overseas - I suspect after this experience he will stick to that much more rigidly!

Conversely I suspect that many sellers state that goods are tested when they have not tested them. Then they refund if it doesn't work.
I've had something DOA and another item not as described. Both were refunded and I kept both items.

In a situation like this as a buyer I would think a partial refund would be appropriate. Shipping it back internationally is nuts.

[Macbeth]

Have a contest and let the US winner have it for the cost of shipping.

This is a good idea. No doubt the buyer is playing on the fact that return postage even by the slowest of USPS methods is insanely expensive compared to the rest of the world. Of course this means Dave will have to write it off and let the buyer have the scope and his money back - which he will promptly fix in half an hour.

Anyone in the USA who is willing to take it as a return and pay the $10 or so dollars local shipping? Must provide photos of delivery and possible tear down and repair to eevblog too of course!

Of course we know this guy is probably a shyster so may just send you a brick in a box so there is some element of risk.