600,000 millivolts

[gmichael225]

So a friend just sent me a screenshot from David Cronenberg's "Videodrome", in which a sign appears saying:

DANGER
600000 MILLIVOLTS
KEEP OUT

Their question was - why wouldn't it just say 600 volts?
I don't have a good answer for them - do you?

[BravoV]

Their question was - why wouldn't it just say 600 volts?
I don't have a good answer for them - do you?

I'm guessing, the answer is, you are not worthy enough (technical wise) to get near and able to read the warning label clearly if you don't understand what that warning sign means.

[Halcyon]

Because 600000 is more than 600? (Ignore the unit of measure.) Maybe it sounded scarier to those who don't understand basic electrical theory.

Red sign + Big number = No touchy

[gmichael225]

Red sign + Big number = No touchy

I thought maybe that, but that seems over-thought for a movie set!
I was hoping it might be something more esoteric!

[Halcyon]

I suppose it serves that purpose too. Only a certain person would pick up on that.

It reminds me of another odd sign in the movie Wargames...



Was urinating in common areas of a base a problem in the US Defence Forces?

[Brumby]

My vote goes to a prop master having (at least) a modicum of knowledge on the subject, a sense of humour ... and being a little mischievous.

It would just go over the head of most people ...

[AlfBaz]

Simple. Electronic cards in a rack above an osciloscope. Blokes there probably only ever work with mV signals so prabably better just incase they thought it was 600mV

[sokoloff]

Ex-colleague had a magnet on his cube along this line:



He used it to tell who had a clue of the basics and a sense of humor...

[GlennSprigg]

To Halcyon....  Yep, better than seeing  6x10² Volts, though was prob. taking the piss 

[rstofer]

I suppose it serves that purpose too. Only a certain person would pick up on that.

It reminds me of another odd sign in the movie Wargames...

Was urinating in common areas of a base a problem in the US Defence Forces?

Speaking of War Games - did you catch the bit about the condom recycling factory?

One of our techs had a red sign that warned of 1,000,000 Ohms.

[Red Squirrel]

That's funny, I guess it sounds more "technical" without being wrong. 

[@rt]

Is the whole setup nonsense?
They vaguely look like valve footprints on the cards, but even 70’s 9 pin valves couldn’t fit through the slot.
Could that card even move 600V around?
and what's happening with the card edge connector facing the actor’s head? It has at least one trace/wire lead out to it.

[Kleinstein]

Kind of reminds me to the 60.000 mHz CPU (Coffee Processing Unit).

[dmills]

I knew someone who worked developing mobile phone power stages back in the day.

His manager was giving him earache because against a target output of 3dBW, he was only managing 0dBW on the prototype....

He got called into a meeting with his bosses grandboss about this "Disastrous failure to get the power amp to perform" where he said that "Against a target of 63dBuW the amplifier is currently managing 60dBuW", He was congratulated on being so close to the target.

Regards, Dan.

[T3sl4co1l]

A few years later, jury duty again. The judge states that the defendant is charged with possession of 1,700 milligrams of cocaine. It was found on his body, he was arrested, and he is now on trial. This time, after the Q&A is over, the judge asks us whether there are any questions we’d like to ask the court, and I say, “Yes, Your Honor. Why did you say he was in possession of 1,700 milligrams of cocaine? That equals 1.7 grams. The ‘thousand’ cancels with the ‘milli-’ and you get 1.7 grams, which is less than the weight of a dime.” Again I’m out on the street.

- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Tim

[Brumby]

I knew someone who worked developing mobile phone power stages back in the day.

His manager was giving him earache because against a target output of 3dBW, he was only managing 0dBW on the prototype....

He got called into a meeting with his bosses grandboss about this "Disastrous failure to get the power amp to perform" where he said that "Against a target of 63dBuW the amplifier is currently managing 60dBuW", He was congratulated on being so close to the target.

Regards, Dan.

I had to read that a second time to 'get' it.  I guess I shouldn't be trying to think when it's coming up to 3am.

[GerryBags]

Is the whole setup nonsense?
They vaguely look like valve footprints on the cards, but even 70’s 9 pin valves couldn’t fit through the slot.
Could that card even move 600V around?
and what's happening with the card edge connector facing the actor’s head? It has at least one trace/wire lead out to it.

I think the silver things are pull-out handles, the wire looks like it runs to a light down the bottom of the front panels. The radial traces could be below one of the early IC's that came in a can package.

[rsjsouza]

To me they were just showing off their 6-¹/₂ meters used to measure the voltages on that rack.   

600000mV has much more resolution than those puny pedestrian 600V signs. 

[@rt]

I think the silver things are pull-out handles, the wire looks like it runs to a light down the bottom of the front panels. The radial traces could be below one of the early IC's that came in a can package.

What reason would 600V be on a solid state logic board? or even 70’s miniwatt valves?
It sound more like a secondary winding for the tube inside the CRO if anything real.

[David Hess]

We know from a different scene that Harlan, the character in Videodrome, is a joker so it does not surprise me at all that he would make a sign like that.

"Home of the buccaneers, pirates of the high frequencies."

That Tektronix 526 vectorscope in the rack has a +500 volt unregulated supply which might reach 600 volts.  I thought there might be some Nuvistors in the rack he is messing with but they only ran up to 300 volts.  600 volts is not what I would expect from a receiving tube.

[Cyberdragon]

We know from a different scene that Harlan, the character in Videodrome, is a joker so it does not surprise me at all that he would make a sign like that.

"Home of the buccaneers, pirates of the high frequencies."

That Tektronix 526 vectorscope in the rack has a +500 volt unregulated supply which might reach 600 volts.  I thought there might be some Nuvistors in the rack he is messing with but they only ran up to 300 volts.  600 volts is not what I would expect from a receiving tube.

Unless it's electronically stepping down an input or something (instead of with just resistors). It might also be handling voltages for other equipment that requires high voltage.

[ebastler]

So a friend just sent me a screenshot from David Cronenberg's "Videodrome", in which a sign appears saying:

DANGER
600000 MILLIVOLTS
KEEP OUT

Their question was - why wouldn't it just say 600 volts?
I don't have a good answer for them - do you?

Because it's in a movie? A fantasy/scence fiction movie, which aims to put you off balance?
Just guessing...

[ogden]

Easy. You want your office/lab clean but don't want your long term measurements or just equipment to be trashed - so you put scary signs on sensitive and/or expensive equipment to keep personnel of cleaning services away from it.

[Falkra]

600V, 600 000 millivolts : more letters, more danger. Visually, for a movie. 

[Brumby]

This is a sign I would sometimes like to put up.....

[Cyberdragon]

Technically that is true wherever there is lots of exposed live metalwork, especially if there's capacitors making it dangerous for a while when off too. Stuff like broadcasting antennas will also electrocute, as generally the whole thing is live.

[Richard Crowley]

I once heard of signs posted at a broadcast transmitter site that said:

WARNING  DANGER of radiation exposure. Protective gear required beyond this point.

In other words:  You might get a sun-burn if you don't wear a shirt and hat.

[David Hess]

At one point I marked my distilled water bottle as containing 0.03% radioactive deuterium.

[Distelzombie]

This is a sign I would sometimes like to put up.....

Who really stops you?

[Brumby]

The explicit threat of the tag line.

Have you never met someone who would love to make a big issue about something like that?

[Cyberdragon]

The explicit threat of the tag line.

Have you never met someone who would love to make a big issue about something like that?

Unless it was top secret military/spy equipment, then it might be relevant.

[Brumby]

I've not had that pleasure.

[forrestc]

I once heard of signs posted at a broadcast transmitter site that said:

WARNING  DANGER of radiation exposure. Protective gear required beyond this point.

In other words:  You might get a sun-burn if you don't wear a shirt and hat.

Signs similar to this are common at all high powered transmitting sites.  They are typically mandated by some government agency when the area has RF levels exceeding some threshold.   And yes, in some cases an RF suit is required.   See https://www.rfsafetysolutions.com/RF%20Radiation%20Pages/RF_Protective_Garments.html as an example... 

[GlennSprigg]

I posted a sign on an Electrical Department door once, explaining all the wiring & fuse sizes
for the after-hours mechanical fitters, which included the 1,250 Amp "Slow-Blow" fuse
which  was a 1/4" Bolt, as a last resort. hoping not to get phoned/paged after hours 
The IRONY is that I could never explain enough that they should understand that a 'FUSE'
blowing, is NOT the 'fault', but merely a 'Symptom' of the underlying cause !!

[Bassman59]

So a friend just sent me a screenshot from David Cronenberg's "Videodrome"

The Church of the Cathode Ray has been re-organized into the Temple of the Liquid Crystal.

[metrologist]

a millivolt even sounds more scary than a volt...

[Brumby]

That's the metrologist reaction.

[GlennSprigg]

..."I've not had that pleasure"...

I have.... Though it's not a 'pleasure' to be de-briefed by ASIO at the end of a 'Job'.
What I saw. Who I met. Things discussed. "Phrases" used, seriously or in 'fun'.
'Unusual' people present in certain scenarios. Photos of 'Signage' & addresses.
Internal signed Stat Decs of info never to be revealed. 'Signs' mean nothing !!

I 'only' speak as I do now, because not only is NOTHING being given away, but
my 'words' here (and elsewhere) are designed to convince certain anti-establishment
people that their 'attempts' at security breaches are totally futile....

NOTHING (I repeat, NOTHING) is like the 'Movies' so don't waste your time !!!!!
Think 'Japanese' old movies about secure bunkers WAY out of reach of 'attackers'
way out in the 'Suburbs', a LONG way from 'any' city.... (& underground)......
You have 'NO' idea !!!!!!  Do you think that a 'certain' HeadQuarters in some 'City'
is where their 'Computers' are ?...... Don't bother !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I 'visited' these 'underground' 'places', way out in the 'sticks', in some totally
remote 'suburbia'  I was dressed as "John Doe", and driving a totally non-descript
vehicle, carrying an old bag, (NOT an Atache case),  and had to park a few buildings
or houses down.   Bring on the 'bombs'... they wouldn't work xxx

[dmills]

Yep, that big building by Vauxhall Bridge labelled MI5, probably really the civil service pensions office (With just enough actors briefed to look like spooks types to fool the journos), while some nondescript 1980s office block in Birmingham or the Wirral or Stockton on Tees or somewhere allegedly full of some random company is actually getting the job done. 

Ever wonder why UK job centres are all these huge buildings with about 3 people serving at the counters, there must be something using all that space.... 

One of the better ones that eventually leaked was a deep sewer project in the midlands, that went madly over budget and was eventually cancelled, years later (after they had a fire and had to abandon the place) it was revealed as really being an underground telephone exchange for continuity of government stuff. Of course the reality of that fire and the abandonment of the place is a valid question if you are a conspiracy type.

Only a fool builds their secret lair in an extinct volcano, you build your secret lair in an eyesore of an office building, and call it something totally nondescript like "Consolidated Consulting", you staff the front desk with temps from the local agency who don't know anything (If you are smart you also have someone build the base under the extinct volcano then watch to see who is interested in it).

Same thing if you are building a mission critical data centre, some random building on an industrial estate is probably better then some old cold war bunker simply because it is uninteresting (But remember to hide the air conditioners, they usually give the locations of **Serious** computing power away).

There is a reason a 'Safe House' is a term of art, and should ideally be just that a house with someone to look after it and make it looked lived in, boring is probably a very desirable attribute.

Just because we live in the digital age does not make basic tradecraft any less valid, and the experienced folks in the secrets game all know it.

Regards, Dan.

[JohnnyMalaria]

600 kilogram meter squared per second cubed per ampere

[GlennSprigg]

dmills  :  You are so right mate !!   They are in places 'people' LEAST expect, apart from being generally Remote!

I was once in a position to 'program' my own access cards to any major bank, Aerospace, Military, Government,
Security centre, & State Prisons, to perform my 'duties'. I would often call unannounced which can be 'funny'.
Peoples assumptions usually...... "Hmm.. I don't know him, but he's in here... so I guess he is supposed to be!"
Always check credentials !!!  (It's worth their job!)  Not going beyond these 'generics'.

Sometimes I would 'turn a corner' and drive into a hidden vehicle elevator to a sub-basement ! (not sure where?)
I've been HandCuffed by the head Warden of a major prison (haha) when I challenged him to a one-on-one when
he was 'demonstrating' the OLD ways of Prison control, back when it was tolerated !!!! xoxoxox  (I let him!! xx)
Millitary Secrets !!!  (Well yes, but no Area 52 Aliens though, sorry ! xxx)
Machine-Gun controlled sub-basement Vaults with 50 Million in cash on pallets outside of 'xx' Vaults, and trying
to 'work' on/test vault door vibration alarms, (without leaving finger prints !!)

P.S.   I HATE bull shit 'Movies' that show some dumb-ass "roof-hatch" etc that is not alarmed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in a prison or a bank etc...... Maybe on "Keystone-Cops", but NOT in real life !!!!!!
Most basic system in a 'house'....  Normally closed contacts at windows & doors. (Open circuit means alarm).
Most basic system TODAY, for a house or shop....  as above, but with an E.O.L.(end of line) resistor in the
closed circuit so you can't just "short it out". This is a specific and non-common value resistor, that needs to
be 'seen' in circuit, for a 'no-alarm'. (Usually held closed by a Magnet).
Above THAT, (in all serious important systems/clients), we use an 'EOLM'. (End of line Module). (Banks/prisons etc).
This is NOT a 'simple' device that can be 'Duplicated/Switched-in' in the field!!!!  It is an INTEGRAL part of the
'Alarm-Point' in the field, that consists of complex electronics, that is uniquely in the World 'Matched' to a relative
'IC' (chip) that is installed in the 'Alarm' panel, for just that sector alone....  And believe me, there is NOTHING that
anyone can do to bypass that !!!!!!!!!  (If you say you can then you don't understand & are talking shit.....)

However, all that is but a stepping stone to much more advanced systems, that I will not go into.
My aim???  Leave the 'Movies' alone, and don't think you know more. Just don't bother !!! xox

[dmills]

The consensus of opinion in the better bits of hackerdom is that Holyweird movies are like reading a newspaper article about something you really understand... You come out knowing less then you did when you went in.

Most successful pentesting is about exploiting peoples interest in being helpful.

Some good flimflam and carrying a heavy box or new laser printer and wearing the right kit will get you into many places, and for some others a high vis jacket, hard hat and clipboard combined with a badge reading "Environmental Health" or "Health and safety inspectorate" is pure magic, "Auditor" also has near mythical power to get you places you should not be. I used to routinely use the "Environmental Health Officer" card to get into nightclubs, doubly funny when you get bribed by the owner.....

None of these routinely work on sites that really matter because they tend to have proper security and procedures that actually get followed (and tested regularly) but for run of the mill corporate stuff, a cheap suit and a large laser printer in a box will normally get you past reception and the card locked door (BTW A corporate office scale laser printer has wonderful places to hide a network switch and some extra payload).

As to alarms, you don't try to bypass them, difficult and chancy, you just contrive to set the thing off three or four times a night for a week before you actually go for it, eventually the thing will be switched off because the keyholder wants a nights sleep, start doing it after the alarm engineer has been in on a service visit and you will drive them wild (Many alarm systems have **really** poor HF RFI immunity, this is exploitable). Not a viable strategy at a prison or defence site, but workable most of the time.

Target the human element, they are lazy, often stupid, and tend to fall into the "Nothing happened the last 10 times" fallacy. See for example that US prison that received a fax from the "Governors office" ordering the release of an inmate, worked perfectly.

Everyone should get some legit pen testing gigs at least once, Red team can be a hoot.

Regards, Dan.

[GlennSprigg]

dmills     Yes you are right !!!   
Biggest errors for 'establishments' are due to Complacency !!!  (not bypassing 'alarms')
And yep, the old.... "set the alarm off 10 times and it will prob be turned off".....
   has been true in many a circle, but not for real high security places. (Except movies  )
For the Big-Boys here, that is waving a red rag at a bull, and diagnostics/manpower triples !!!!
The biggest awareness factor is unfortunately complacency though.
I will not say where, but at one Prison in Australia, ALL personnel movement throughout the
various building, wings, yards, (including entrances), HAD to be acknowledged by door intercom
requests, autolinked to cameras for every such door. (Some where airlocks between doors).
Some guards would use the intercom, without control room visual verification door to door!
I tested them once, (door numbers here INvalid!), as a security technician, and said......
"Door 12, 13, 15 & 17 thankyou! " which gave me access from a main exercise yard to the
OUTER door!!! (then simple outer yard cross and a gate to freedom...)  All I heard was a quick
succession of 'Clunks' when all doors were unlocked....   I detoured to the main control room
and had a 'discussion' about that.....
Have a nice day !!!