"Scientists and Doctors Demand Moratorium on 5G"

[MrW0lf]

http://www.saferemr.com/2017/09/5G-moratorium12.html

Over 180 scientists and doctors from 35 countries sent a declaration to officials of the European Commission today demanding a moratorium on the increase of cell antennas for planned 5G expansion. Concerns over health effects from higher radiation exposure include potential neurological impacts, infertility, and cancer.
...
Let our focus be on safer, wired and well shielded technology – not more wireless

Here locally also some people are working on this in countrys top tech university and have some experimental proof of RF effects not limited by heating and even directly detectable by some people. They are given TV time now and then to explain that it might not best idea to stuff every possible wireless gadget in ones bedroom etc.
And this needs to be explained - recently I rented a nice log house in the woods for a weekend to "disconnect" and discovered wireless router by the bed of all places

[borjam]

Mobile phones, radio communications, vaccines, antibiotics... Well, we humans should certainly go back to nature's ways!

[MrW0lf]

Mobile phones, radio communications, vaccines, antibiotics... Well, we humans should certainly go back to nature's ways!

Nature also works by electricity incl biology, but mechanisms are vastly superior to our tech and very poorly understood (some not at all). Also if we mock these mechanisms too much nature may mock back - often by surprise and in quite harsh manner. Cancer, superbugs, healthy coworkers falling severly ill after flu vaccination etc.

Of course corporate transhumanists are more than happy to to stick antenna info everyones bottom since there is money in every conceivable aspect of this incl possible health consequences. Heavy tech consumer having s**tty health, 1k of allergies and eventually dying of cancer is basically dream client for global scale business. On the other hand healthy "tree people" only using technology in reasonable and calculated manner are very poor source if income. For example I'm happy using high speed optical wired Internet connection for good part of the day but after that no need to be glued to smartphone or having refigerator keep track of beer bottles. Steve Jobs limited use of tech by his children for various reasons. When using modern tech long enough these become obvious to investigative mind.

[tszaboo]

You know, it is one of those things: "I cannot see it and I dont understand it, so it must be dangerous."

[borjam]

Nature also works by electricity incl biology, but mechanisms are vastly superior to our tech and very poorly understood (some not at all). Also if we mock these mechanisms too much nature may mock back - often by surprise and in quite harsh manner. Cancer, superbugs, healthy coworkers falling severly ill after flu vaccination etc.

I was kidding of course. Anyway radio transmission is not a new thing invented yesterday, and urban areas receive a lot of RF energy on frequencies such as the VHF FM band and the different TV bands. So, just mobile phones are harmful? Why isn't visible light worse, given that it has a much
higher frequency?

Steve Jobs limited use of tech by his children for various reasons. When using modern tech long enough these become obvious to investigative mind.

Thanks to some religious or pseudo religious bullshit he didn't survive a cancer that could have been treated properly. He admitted his mistake but of course it was too late.

[KG4MXV]

Well I would have just pulled the power for that bugger.
Anyway I have heard that some one has found cameras in the rentals.
So when ever I do a rental of that sort I check them out very carefully.
unplug all devices in the bedroom and bathroom. 
If they have a wireless network I do a scan to find all devices. 
And if I can not identify any of them I pull the power to the router or modem.
And before I leave I just plug everything back in.   
I know a little off topic but still kind of relevant.
Cheers.

[MrW0lf]

You know, it is one of those things: "I cannot see it and I dont understand it, so it must be dangerous."

What makes you think that those 180 scientists and and doctors do not understand the subject? Also this is subject only accessible to those who want to understand it because tech and biology are not taught together in meaningful manner.
Now for more science based approach there are tons of research around incl relatively non-biased from former CCCP (little to no commercial factor).

Well I would have just pulled the power for that bugger.
Anyway I have heard that some one has found cameras in the rentals.

Of course I pulled the power It was most ironic that I do not watch/own TV but there was one in the cabin and on this same evening there was short clip on TV about local RF research and general principles of being cautious consumer.

BTW electrical part of biology is actually very interesting. Ultrasound for example. There is lots of localized charged stuff in cells. Medical ultrasound is in HF range. Is there any consideration given to fact that charged stuff being physically moved around also generates microscopic/local RF hotsports in HF range? Cannot be detected from outside therefore does not exist... Only semi-related mention was some CCCP research when they investigated very small cell groups electrical signaling patterns before/after ultrasound exposure and discovered that pattern changed to "attack/emergency mode".

[Cyberdragon]

The people that tout this shit are by far not real scientists or doctors, even if they were at one point they went to the stupid an insane side.

1. They are ignorent and afraid of all the wrong things
2. They don't know how to do research or refuse to due to #1
3. They don't know how to do proper experiments: "I put this vial of sperm in a microwave to simulate a cell phone and it boiled! BE SCARED EVERYBODY, RADIO WAVES ARE BAD!"

If this were true, all those IOT everything hipsters would be already be darwinezed. Unfortunatetly we have to wait for something else to darwinize them. However, natural selection will get those idiots that tout bullshit, since they are afraid of science, they are more afraid of treatments then actual disease. "It's just cancer, these herbs and rock will surely heal me."

[MrW0lf]

Why isn't visible light worse, given that it has a much higher frequency?

In fact light pollution is actual issue in urban areas. Light pollution => sleep disorders in many cases. Sleep disorders => stress. Stress => cancer. Will they ever write "person died due to exposure to light at night time"? Or same with [urban] noise. Some take it well, some not. Those taking it well will argue it is not an issue. Some can even smoke like chimneys and live to old age. Subtle long term effects with large individual variance - these take longest to regulate in meaningful manner. For example smoking in public became regulated only recently despite being known as harmful to others for very long time.

[borjam]

What makes you think that those 180 scientists and and doctors do not understand the subject? Also this is subject only accessible to those who want to understand it because tech and biology are not taught together in meaningful manner.
Now for more science based approach there are tons of research around incl relatively non-biased from former CCCP (little to no commercial factor).

I know a lot of people with degrees in medicine or pharmacology who belive on homeopathy. So, nothing new.

[tszaboo]

Now for more science based approach there are tons of research around incl relatively non-biased from former CCCP (little to no commercial factor).

I dont believe anything that is coming from that part of the world. In fact, if they say something, and the source is russia, I tend to believe the opposite. You can thank Putin's fake news factory for that.

[tggzzz]

"Scientists and doctors" argued for decades that there was no need to wash their hand. It sounds like these "doctors and scientists" are just as correct. Alternatively you've stumbled on one of the many crackpot websites, and believed it.

Actually, there is a another alternative: the moon is made of green cheese, and some of that is raining down on us and polluting our precious bodily fluids and causing all the problems you imagine. Go on: prove that isn't the case.

And this needs to be explained - recently I rented a nice log house in the woods for a weekend to "disconnect" and discovered wireless router by the bed of all places

And, even if there were such effects, just what good is being away for a single week over the course of your life going to do? Apart, that is, from saving us from idiotic suppositions such as yours.

[wraper]

Now for more science based approach there are tons of research around incl relatively non-biased from former CCCP (little to no commercial factor).

I dont believe anything that is coming from that part of the world. In fact, if they say something, and the source is russia, I tend to believe the opposite. You can thank Putin's fake news factory for that.

FWIW Russian news while being full of propaganda are not nearly as bad as American and many of EU news.

[Mr. Scram]

FWIW Russian news while being full of propaganda are not nearly as bad as American an many of EU news.

Are we now down to carpet bombing statements?

[wraper]

FWIW Russian news while being full of propaganda are not nearly as bad as American an many of EU news.

Are we now down to carpet bombing statements?

For example, anyone found mass destruction weapons in Iraq? Or showing poor oppressed Syrian rebels just a few years ago in western news? Who turned out to be IS. So no, I don't trust any news but western news unfortunately seem to be among the worst. And that Russians hacking US elections hysteria is nothing but ridiculous.

[MrW0lf]

I know a lot of people with degrees in medicine or pharmacology who belive on homeopathy. So, nothing new.

But have you conducted your own research or investigated subject deeply, or just believe also that it does not work? There is lot of mindblowing research around what H2O is on top of chemical formula. Also there is research that sometimes cure may be actual belief itself and pill or some "tuned water" is just source of that belief. What is important here not to enforce solution that works for you on others. People differ and truth is dynamic in time domain.

[Mr. Scram]

For example, anyone found mass destruction weapons in Iraq? Or showing poor oppressed Syrian rebels just a few years ago in western news? Who turned out to be IS. So no, I don't trust any news but western news unfortunately seem to be among the worst.

Are you suggesting that news outlets are expected to fact check official statements from governments, when that means in depth rummaging through another nations state secrets?

[Mr. Scram]

But have you conducted your own research or investigated subject deeply, or just believe also that it does not work? There is lot of mindblowing research around what H2O is on top of chemical formula. Also there is research that sometimes cure may be actual belief itself and pill or some "tuned water" is just source of that belief. What is important here not to enforce solution that works for you on others. People differ and truth is dynamic in time domain.

Truth is dynamic in time domain? What does that even mean? That sounds a lot like all the post-truth nonsense going on now.

[tszaboo]

I know a lot of people with degrees in medicine or pharmacology who belive on homeopathy. So, nothing new.

But have you conducted your own research or investigated subject deeply, or just believe also that it does not work? There is lot of mindblowing research around what H2O is on top of chemical formula. Also there is research that sometimes cure may be actual belief itself and pill or some "tuned water" is just source of that belief. What is important here not to enforce solution that works for you on others. People differ and truth is dynamic in time domain.

No, we dont need to. Official university lecture teach you that there isn't evidence. It might have been some time ago, but you know, what changed since? Nothing.

FWIW Russian news while being full of propaganda are not nearly as bad as American and many of EU news.

That's OK, I dont read those either. I also dont read the local news.
I have a very few selected, verified, politically matching news site that I read.
Keeps the blood pressure low.

But have you conducted your own research or investigated subject deeply, or just believe also that it does not work? There is lot of mindblowing research around what H2O is on top of chemical formula. Also there is research that sometimes cure may be actual belief itself and pill or some "tuned water" is just source of that belief. What is important here not to enforce solution that works for you on others. People differ and truth is dynamic in time domain.

Truth is dynamic in time domain? What does that even mean? That sounds a lot like all the post-truth nonsense going on now.

It just means that russian propaganda can retroactively re-write history. Nothing new here.

[rfeecs]

Cell phones have been around for 40 years.  802.11 WiFi has been around for 20 years.

Where is the spike in brain cancer?

Where is the increase in "cancer, neurological disorders, and reproductive harm?"

Historic brain cancer rate in Australia:


https://brain-cancer.canceraustralia.gov.au/statistics

[MrW0lf]

Truth is dynamic in time domain? What does that even mean?

Ok lets say "official truth". First burned "witches", now sometimes show on TV for amusement. First earth was flat now round. Space was uniform now curved. Asbestos was ok for consumers now forbidden. Everything soaked in formaldehyde and other crap was ok now is says "M1" on many finnish building products. Newtons laws are valid yet quantum stuff is also. Knowing math was good thing now racist.
Condolences to ones trying to keep up with latest instance of "official" truth - it may even more time consuming that reading "far out" research papers instead of watching TV.

[MrW0lf]

Where is the spike

Ok, lets play random stats & quotes game then

https://www.itu.int/net4/ITU-D/CDS/SectorMembersPortal/index.asp?Name=41110

Success with a Big Heart In 1994, Zain (formerly known as Fastlink), revolutionized telecommunications in Jordan by introducing GSM mobile services into the country.

https://www.slideshare.net/belalelhawwari/brain-tumors-rt-ctx

[tszaboo]

Because Chernobyl. It takes 12 years to develop cancer.
Also this:

[rfeecs]

Where is the spike

Ok, lets play random stats & quotes game then

https://www.itu.int/net4/ITU-D/CDS/SectorMembersPortal/index.asp?Name=41110

Success with a Big Heart In 1994, Zain (formerly known as Fastlink), revolutionized telecommunications in Jordan by introducing GSM mobile services into the country.

https://www.slideshare.net/belalelhawwari/brain-tumors-rt-ctx

OK, I know



So aside from one anomalous sample, the rate of increase of brain cancer decreased after GSM was introduced. 

[cdev]

If people here see ourselves as scientifically literate, fact based people, we shouldn't allow ourselves to get swayed by logical fallacies.

Personally, I do believe that RF under some conditions may cause health problems.

Probably ones having to do with oxidative stress.