Another Engineering failure (not for weak hearted)...

[Mechatrommer]

i couldnt stand it watching and just letting it go (kid fall off the escalator, dont watch if you faint hearted). i know its harsh but i wish i can educate as much young engineers as i can, trust me this is the only best place i have and i have no practising engineers friends around, so thats why it will be here. please pass the message to your fellow esp civil and mechanical engineers... put netting or blockage or something between storey, always think for the worst while designing things... the fact is, things do happened (mostly for the sake of aesthetic'sm and "glamour")... i saw the same issue a while ago somewhere. the escalator "hand rest" (not sure what the term) that goes upward is too close to the horizontal beam (parallel to the escalator direction) upstair, if some kid laying his head protruding out of the "hand rest" while going up, it will be chopped off by the beam, i only didnt know where to make the complain, even if i did maybe i just get ignored (just as usual)... prevention if more important than cure.

[houdini]

I see no problem with the escalator but rather with whoever was watching him that shouldn't have let him try to go head first down the escalator hand rail.

[Radio Tech]

The good news is the boy lived.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4488675/Lucky-boy-5-falls-three-floors-and-escapes-unharmed.html

[Mechatrommer]

I see no problem with the escalator but rather with whoever was watching him that shouldn't have let him try to go head first down the escalator hand rail.

human is not perfect. kids act could be a split second while the mom checking the clothes or she could be paying the bill etc. and that only if you want to take that into consideration. another solution is you dont put escalator inline like that, maybe in zig zag manner. i always scared when "high rise falling" is easily accesible to public esp children.

The good news is the boy lived.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4488675/Lucky-boy-5-falls-three-floors-and-escapes-unharmed.html

must be a "lucky" day for him, when is the time you win lotteries twice in a row? as the video showed, the kid hitted 2nd or maybe 1st floor escalator before hitting hard floor, maybe that help absorbing the momentum and he is very light small kid.

[free_electron]

now, this is an accident, but here is my thoughts on this :

1) escalators have been built like this for years.
2) when i grew up my parents imprinted on me that the shopping mall is NOT A PLAYGROUND !
3) they also imprinted on me that there was to be holding hands of an adult when going on escalators. especially at that age.

if i would have been farting around like that kid trying to dive down the handrail there would have been some serious 'imprinting' of the type that the area of my body used to sit on would have been glowing red ....

Don't blame the engineers. Blame the parents. they are obviously distracted , blabbing about their latest purchases, on the phone, tweeting and whatever. the kid is not conditioned yet for an outing to the mall.

[Mechatrommer]

2) when i grew up my parents imprinted on me that the shopping mall is NOT A PLAYGROUND !
3) they also imprinted on me that there was to be holding hands of an adult when going on escalators. especially at that age.

you must be a good kid listening to your parents. i'm not blaming for what is already happened, engineers are human, human not perfect. this is something to think about in the future. Fluke is designed to be safe even if we abuse it, and power outlet is not designed to be easily accesible by poking our finger in, must be a reason for that, not simply an advice "dont go near it its dangerous" thing

[free_electron]

when i was allowed to go to the shopping mall at such a young age there was hand holding from exiting the car to getting back in the car.
And if as a kid , in my time , there was no listening there would have been swift 'corrective action' of the type that is remembered the longest.
My parents were not distracted by cellphones and other stuff. They watched the kids.

this is no longer the case... kids roam free, have tantrums on the floor if they don't get their way and consider everything a playground. a few weeks ago in a grocery store some 6 year olds were running around on their socks throwing their shoes at each other. mom was on the phone , shopping cart full of junkfood , snacks and sugarbombs , screaming at the kids to stop. shoes ended up in the meat section , between tomatoes. when mom finally got off the phone and did some more yelling one of the kids dropped to the floor and started a screaming tantrum that it was bored and they never went anywhere fun. Its younger sibling started crying it wanted to have an icecream.

THAT WAS UNTHINKABLE in my time. ( 40 years ago )

kids today are left cooped up before tv to watch their hyper manga tv shows , get fed sugerbombs which make them even more hyper and are bored out of their skull... the parents are bogged down and clueless and have no time to provided proper education as they are too self absorbed in gabbing to their friends on the blabphone/tube/fartbook. they are also overcomplimented. if they draw a squiggly line between to points it is immediately. oh good, look at how great you did . you are so good . no you didn't . the line ain't straight and there's 2 inksplotches on the paper. you FAIL.

I'm all for stimulation and reinforcement and reward. but it has to merited. and that takes discipline.

[nanofrog]

put netting or blockage or something between storey, always think for the worst while designing things...

Walls on both sides (entry at the top or bottom, and exit on the opposite end).

Here's an example:


This aside though, at what point do people have to take responsibility for their own actions, or in the case of a child, the parents?

I just don't think it's truly possible to fully idiot proof the world, and a little discipline and education of common sense (and application of it) can go a very long way.

now, this is an accident, but here is my thoughts on this :

1) escalators have been built like this for years.
2) when i grew up my parents imprinted on me that the shopping mall is NOT A PLAYGROUND !
3) they also imprinted on me that there was to be holding hands of an adult when going on escalators. especially at that age.

if i would have been farting around like that kid trying to dive down the handrail there would have been some serious 'imprinting' of the type that the area of my body used to sit on would have been glowing red ....

Same here.

when i was allowed to go to the shopping mall at such a young age there was hand holding from exiting the car to getting back in the car.
And if as a kid , in my time , there was no listening there would have been swift 'corrective action' of the type that is remembered the longest.
My parents were not distracted by cellphones and other stuff. They watched the kids.

this is no longer the case... kids roam free, have tantrums on the floor if they don't get their way and consider everything a playground. a few weeks ago in a grocery store some 6 year olds were running around on their socks throwing their shoes at each other. mom was on the phone , shopping cart full of junkfood , snacks and sugarbombs , screaming at the kids to stop. shoes ended up in the meat section , between tomatoes. when mom finally got off the phone and did some more yelling one of the kids dropped to the floor and started a screaming tantrum that it was bored and they never went anywhere fun. Its younger sibling started crying it wanted to have an icecream.

THAT WAS UNTHINKABLE in my time. ( 40 years ago )

kids today are left cooped up before tv to watch their hyper manga tv shows , get fed sugerbombs which make them even more hyper and are bored out of their skull... the parents are bogged down and clueless and have no time to provided proper education as they are too self absorbed in gabbing to their friends on the blabphone/tube/fartbook. they are also overcomplimented. if they draw a squiggly line between to points it is immediately. oh good, look at how great you did . you are so good . no you didn't . the line ain't straight and there's 2 inksplotches on the paper. you FAIL.

I'm all for stimulation and reinforcement and reward. but it has to merited. and that takes discipline.

Sadly, this is far too common.

I even have to witness this sort of shenanigans with kids of one family member in particular. The parent of these little monsters wasn't raised like this either, so it's not a lack of knowing the difference.

[smashedProton]

I once saw a child run into the street while her mother was on her phone.  I screamed at her and stopped traffic.  I made sure to chew up the mother too   

This brings up the issue that kids growing up in this generation may believe (which probably also is true) that their parents care about their iphone more than them.  Sadly my father seems that way with his ipad. 

Sorry for hijacking the thread OP

[amyk]

Wouldn't have happened if he'd been leashed.

If any "human rights" activists complain then you can show them this video and tell them that a young kid with no sense of danger whatsoever is no better at judgement than an animal (actually I don't even think a dog would try that...)

[Mechatrommer]

(actually I don't even think a dog would try that...)

animals act based on "threat and safety" (or "opportunity" not sure what the term is) its been like that since the big bang. otoh us human go the other way around, must be evolution.

[bitwelder]

when i was allowed to go to the shopping mall at such a young age...
<cut>

10 minutes of applauses...

[M. András]

i would simply get the parents not the engineers for this, seriously you as a kid must be dumb enough to try to climb on anything in a multiple stories building

[Mechatrommer]

seriously you as a kid must be dumb enough to try to climb on anything in a multiple stories building

no, the kid went to the thing that apparently looks like a "sliding machine" usually found in a "fun fair". now he is in the middle on the left is the parent, on the right is the designer. the parent failed to notify, the engineer failed to block, both recipe mixed, both hand clapped... BOOM.

[SeanB]

Here the centres all have big signs by the escalators and pictograms ( seeing as half the kids that graduate high school are totally illiterate ) that show the right and wrong ways to use them.

You can now assume that the kid, when they get out of hospital, will never want to go to the mall ever again.

[BillyD]

It's the parents fault? And suppose another parent came along the following day and the same thing happened? And the same the following day. Is it still all those parents faults? Do you not think somebody else might also bear at least some of the responsibility for the safety here?

Yes the kid should not have climbed up there, and yes his parents should have had better control over him. But does that make it ok for some kid to lose or almost his life?
I'd class that as a 'system failure' i.e. a good system should be able to respond at least some way gracefully to all the cock ups and unexpected events that happen in the real world.
If I owned that building I could sit back and say it's all the kids+parents fault and do nothing else or I could learn from the experience and do something:

• I could put an permanent safety attendant standing there (in fact that was actually done in a centre here in Dublin in the last few years in response to a similar incident).
• I could raise the barrier.
• I could put netting underneath.
• etc.

This is not pandering to the compensation culture, this is seeing risks and playing your part in mitigating them. Countless tragedies and disasters have been preceded by warnings which were ignored.

It's only an engineering fail if you see a problem and do nothing about it.

[BiOzZ]

GOD DAMN kids are resilient O.o

[nanofrog]

GOD DAMN kids are resilient O.o

Amazingly, they bounce really well.     

Stuff I've seen of my family's kids have me in awe. They walk away with maybe a scratch or scrape instead of broken bones (closer to what I expected the result to be).

[ddavidebor]

Yeah the good side of not completed formed bones

[Ghydda]

Oh boy you people are really digging trenches.

It's not about removing all dangers from society, nor is it about making sure Darwin gets the last word.
Bad arguments are made in both camps (paraphrasing here):
"Let's bubble wrap the world, then we're all safe!"
"Let's remove seatbelts and airbags, because if you can't avoid hitting shit you need to be taken out!"

It's all about walking the fine line between sensible safety measures and not overdoing it.
In my opinion, the kid acted stupid, but the mitigating factor was that the hand rail aided him in getting up there. A normal stationary handrail wouldn't have done that. I bet the kid was surprised how fast he was pulled up.
So yes, the safety precautions were inadequate, especially so considering the 2 floor drop onto hard concrete.

[Mechatrommer]

It's all about walking the fine line between sensible safety measures and not overdoing it.
So yes, the safety precautions were inadequate, especially so considering the 2 floor drop onto hard concrete.

so your conclusion is....? from discussion so far, my take is, both parties, parents and engineers must play their role to ensure safety.

[BillyD]

It's all about walking the fine line between sensible safety measures and not overdoing it.
So yes, the safety precautions were inadequate, especially so considering the 2 floor drop onto hard concrete.

so your conclusion is....? from discussion so far, my take is, both parties, parents and engineers must play their role to ensure safety.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

From the engineering viewpoint you should try to learn from every incident and consider whether or not there is something you should do in response. Sometimes you'll do something, sometimes you'll do nothing. This is the approach which led to cars having seatbelts and airbags, bridges having railings, airliners having oxygen masks but not parachutes, etc. In fact a similar logic can be applied to parents + how they manage their kids.

[amyk]

GOD DAMN kids are resilient O.o

Amazingly, they bounce really well.     

Stuff I've seen of my family's kids have me in awe. They walk away with maybe a scratch or scrape instead of broken bones (closer to what I expected the result to be).

Mass relative to structural strength also has a lot to do with it, in the same way that insects can fall from many times their height and be unharmed while large structures can deform under their own weight.

[BillyD]

Oh boy you people are really digging trenches.

It's not about removing all dangers from society, nor is it about making sure Darwin gets the last word.
Bad arguments are made in both camps (paraphrasing here):
"Let's bubble wrap the world, then we're all safe!"
"Let's remove seatbelts and airbags, because if you can't avoid hitting shit you need to be taken out!"

It's all about walking the fine line between sensible safety measures and not overdoing it.
In my opinion, the kid acted stupid, but the mitigating factor was that the hand rail aided him in getting up there. A normal stationary handrail wouldn't have done that. I bet the kid was surprised how fast he was pulled up.
So yes, the safety precautions were inadequate, especially so considering the 2 floor drop onto hard concrete.

There is adequate safety measures in place. The railing is high enough and the openning is glass enclosed.

But I’ll bite. Say they put a net down there as suggested then what happens when kids decide to play in the net and get tangled and wind up choking? They hire a full time attendant he turns out to be a nut and starts pushing people off or his attention gets diverted. They bolt on a stationary railing a kid gets tangled in the railing fixtures etc…it goes on and on….
The kids not stupid the kid is a kid if anyone is stupid it’s the parents.

Maybe they should put a sign up there (supervise your kids) for the halfwits you know like they now put on coffe cups “caution beverage is hot”. I would think that states the obvious same as the fact you should supervise your children around machinery or other potentially dangerous things. Obviously though people today seem to need to be reminded of the obvious.
Given there are millions of escalators in use world wide how often does something like this happen?

I'll admit that there are probably quite a few cases worldwide where kids fall over the edge at escalators. But that's only part of it. Of those incidents, how many are compounded by the victim subsequently falling through another?

Nobody is saying that the parents are without blame. But it's surprising how many people seem to think that escalator design is now perfect and final, and apparently needs no improvement or tweaks. Or afraid to take any action in case they get blamed or sued.

[ddavidebor]

If you're stupid you can kill yourself with a piece of paper.