Apple plans on leaving Intel architecture even for their PCs and laptops.

[james_s]

An ARM core with performance comparable to x86 will not be power competitive with existing lower power ARM cores so a separate design will be required.  Is the MacOS laptop and desktop market large enough to make that economical especially considering that it means excluding high performance x86 software?  This problem is why Apple dropped 68k for PowerPC and then PowerPC for x86.

They way Apple has allowed the Macintosh line of systems to languish over the past few years does not bode well for the economics of designing a high performance ARM core for them.

They have made some really stupid design choices in recent years. IMHO the touchpads are WAY too big on the current gen MBPs, and the OS went from slick and polished to ugly and blah shortly after Jobs died. I really liked the slick glossy look of iOS6, then iOS7 came out and had that bland half baked Android look. Then the same bland look spread to OSX and Microsoft jumped on the bandwagon and managed to out-bland Apple when they released Win8. I look forward to the day when the fashion winds shift yet again.

[BradC]

I think iTunes is still required to perform some basic tasks, like copying files to/from the handset and creating backups.

I use my iPad and iPhone and have never installed iTunes. Backups are done to a Sandisk iExpand or via libimobiledevice. Calendars and contacts are managed via activesync. Goodreader handles my document library. Music / video is handled through vlc or a couple of other apps.

[tooki]

While I found the device functional, what I did NOT like was having to install iTunes just to activate the bloody thing.  That piece of software just stepped in and took control of a whole series of functionality that I simply did not need and did not want.  Took me a while to tame it and work around it - but that was something I should not have had to deal with.

FYI, the iPhone 4 was the last one to launch with the iTunes requirement. iPhone 4S and later can activate themselves. (I am not entirely sure whether earlier iPhones, once upgraded to iOS 5 [the 4S's launch OS), also eschew the iTunes activation requirement.)

I used to defend iTunes, but honestly, in the past few years, the attempts to clean up its interface have made it into a mess. :/

[tooki]

Nothing I've said here are things I haven't said before and if/when Apple change their attitude back to the way it used to be

Just because you've said something before doesn't make it any less wrong now!

"The way it used to be"? The criticisms you make are the same ones Apple haters have been making since the 1980s. Apple has been remarkably consistent over the decades.

[bd139]

While I found the device functional, what I did NOT like was having to install iTunes just to activate the bloody thing.  That piece of software just stepped in and took control of a whole series of functionality that I simply did not need and did not want.  Took me a while to tame it and work around it - but that was something I should not have had to deal with.

FYI, the iPhone 4 was the last one to launch with the iTunes requirement. iPhone 4S and later can activate themselves. (I am not entirely sure whether earlier iPhones, once upgraded to iOS 5 [the 4S's launch OS), also eschew the iTunes activation requirement.)

I used to defend iTunes, but honestly, in the past few years, the attempts to clean up its interface have made it into a mess. :/

iTunes is shit. Don’t use it myself.

[Halcyon]

Nothing I've said here are things I haven't said before and if/when Apple change their attitude back to the way it used to be

Just because you've said something before doesn't make it any less wrong now!

"The way it used to be"? The criticisms you make are the same ones Apple haters have been making since the 1980s. Apple has been remarkably consistent over the decades.

What!? Now who's throwing around wild claims? I actually liked Apple's hardware back in the 1980's and 90's. It was actually well built (much of it still lasting today). The design decisions were well thought out. These days the same cannot be said. They are plagued with issues which just shouldn't exist for an experienced technology company. Just because you have a nice shiny aluminium chassis, doesn't make it good.

I will say in the last decade or two, Apple have been consistent, it's just that consistency leaves little to be desired. I'll leave it at that.

[bd139]

It was crap. I don't think you used it. MacOS was a co-operatively tasked pile of shit that hung 100 times a day, all the peripherals were proprietary (ADB / NUbus), bugs galore and the network stack was made out of boiled kraken excrement. The hardware was junk as well. I had nothing but shit from it.

It only started looking good when they basically ripped all that up and started using COTS peripherals and replacing it all with NEXTstep on the FreeBSD/mach hybrid (OSX).

Edit: to add fuel to the fire. Even a hacked up Amiga 1500 was a better machine.

[glarsson]

It was crap. I don't think you used it. MacOS was a co-operatively tasked pile of shit that hung 100 times a day, all the peripherals were proprietary, bugs galore and the network stack was made out of boiled kraken excrement.

True, but the common alternative was MS-DOS with a bunch of TSR-prograns, some memory managers, and a co-operatively tasked pile of shit Windows on top. 

At that time I was running Unix on a 68008 and 1024x768 graphics. 

[bd139]

Yes Unix was the best solution, but entirely unaffordable for most. I had shell access to a Sun SPARCserver however.

I had a few computers then. Until late 1990s when NT took over for me, I was using an Acorn RISCPC. That shat on the lot.

[Cerebus]

... all the peripherals were proprietary (ADB / NUbus)

Just for the sake of accuracy: NuBus was standardised as IEEE 1196 a while before Apple adopted it, and had been in prior use by Lisp Machines, Western Digital, Texas Instruments and, I think, Motorola. It wasn't exactly a thriving eco-system, even though in theory it was an open standard. ADB however is all down to Apple.

[bd139]

 IEEE 1196 you had to buy the spec for. That's not open

[rsjsouza]

It was crap. I don't think you used it. MacOS was a co-operatively tasked pile of shit that hung 100 times a day, all the peripherals were proprietary, bugs galore and the network stack was made out of boiled kraken excrement.

True, but the common alternative was MS-DOS with a bunch of TSR-prograns, some memory managers, and a co-operatively tasked pile of shit Windows on top. 

At that time I was running Unix on a 68008 and 1024x768 graphics. 

If you mean the 1990s, the less common alternative for the common man was Slackware. Quite incipient HW support, although it worked well on my 486DX-33 with a Trident 1024kB at 1024x768 interlaced on my NEC Multisync 3D (if you got the settings wrong your display would fry - these were the days  ).

IEEE 1196 you had to buy the spec for. That's not open

Well, technically free != open... 

[glarsson]

If you mean the 1990s, the less common alternative for the common man was Slackware.

No. In 1990 I upgraded to a Sun workstation with a SPARC processor.

[bd139]

SPARCstation FTW. Proper Unix. With beards and everything.

I loved sun4c/m/d machines.

[glarsson]

SPARCstation FTW. Proper Unix. With beards and everything.

Yes, but no beard here.
Bought a SPARCStation IPC in 1990, a SS20 in 1995 and Ultra60 in 2000. Then the workstations were no longer available from Sun - the only remaining SPARC systems were noisy wind tunnels for the server room. The Ultra60 was therefore replaced by Mac Pro with PowerPC G5 processors and that one was later replaced by a Mac Pro with Intel Xenon processors. Certified UNIX all the way.

[bd139]

SS20 was my favourite machine. Had one in the office with dual Ross hypersparcs in it. Alas I went NT after that for a bit and then Linux actually wasn’t a pile of crap any more. Then Apple when the first plastic intel MacBooks came out. Now I drive Linux machines from Mac and NT.

Had a flirt with HPUX as well but that was not something I remember fondly.

[james_s]

Yes, but no beard here.
Bought a SPARCStation IPC in 1990, a SS20 in 1995 and Ultra60 in 2000. Then the workstations were no longer available from Sun - the only remaining SPARC systems were noisy wind tunnels for the server room. The Ultra60 was therefore replaced by Mac Pro with PowerPC G5 processors and that one was later replaced by a Mac Pro with Intel Xenon processors. Certified UNIX all the way.

I have a SparcStation IPC currently acting as a book-end on my shelf. It even worked last time I powered it up, though I suspect the battery in the Dallas chip is dead by now, stupid design choice on an otherwise lovely system. I got mine for free when it was already old but I recall they were shockingly expensive when new. I have a few other Sun boxes from that era too, interesting hardware but sadly much less powerful than a lowly Raspberry Pi now.

[Halcyon]

I have a SparcStation IPC currently acting as a book-end on my shelf. It even worked last time I powered it up, though I suspect the battery in the Dallas chip is dead by now, stupid design choice on an otherwise lovely system.

I've successfully used the Dallas DS12887+ as a drop-in replacement for the old Dallas RTC modules in old machines before. Not sure which one the SparcStation uses, but you might be able to find a new replacement.

[rsjsouza]

If you mean the 1990s, the less common alternative for the common man was Slackware.

No. In 1990 I upgraded to a Sun workstation with a SPARC processor.

Living in a peripheric economy (Brazil), anything else other than PCs was unattainable for private citizens, thus SPARCs were a complete different game in terms of uniqueness.

Despite this, SPARCs were quite popular in academia. I started TCP/IP development in Sparcstations 4 and 5 at the end of the 1990s.

[james_s]

I have a SparcStation IPC currently acting as a book-end on my shelf. It even worked last time I powered it up, though I suspect the battery in the Dallas chip is dead by now, stupid design choice on an otherwise lovely system.

I've successfully used the Dallas DS12887+ as a drop-in replacement for the old Dallas RTC modules in old machines before. Not sure which one the SparcStation uses, but you might be able to find a new replacement.

There is/was a newer "compatible" Dallas part but for reasons not entirely clear to me it doesn't work in the old Sun machines. It is possible to hack a new battery into the existing part but the problem is that when the battery dies some information required for the machine to boot is lost and it's a pain to get it all set up again. I haven't looked into it in about 10 years but I remember spending a couple hours messing with another old Sun box with that issue before giving up.

[bd139]

I did NVRAM in some ultra 1’s. Just dropped a replacement IC in. Can’t remember doing any major config.

[brucehoult]

This is a very interesting development. I haven't been able to find whether Apple plans to enter the x86 market or is going the ARM route with their desktop computers, or is planning to develop its own flavour compatible with none of the others. It's also interesting to see whether that'll be the end of Bootcamp.

Exactly. What appears to have leaked is that Apple is planning to stop using Intel, and probably x86.

That doesn't mean they're going to go to ARM.

Not even unifying macOS and iOS means going to ARM. New iOS XCode projects have defaulted to compiling to llvm IR and being uploaded to the AppStore that way for several years already. You can change them to compile to native aarch64 code, but I'd bet most people don't. With watchOS and tvOS you don't have the choice -- only llvm IR is accepted for upload. I'm expecting Apple to remove the option to upload as ARM code and only accept llvm IR any time now -- last year they forced everything to be 64 bit, so maybe this year it will be forcing everything to be llvm.

At that point they can use any CPU architecture they want. Maybe something they design themselves. Maybe something existing and free such as RISC-V, saving Apple the work of creating all the compilers etc themselves.

Apple has their own existing rather good ARM micro-arcitectures. Better than anyone else's (whether standard ARM or Samsung or Qualcomm), and pushing hard against the lower end i3s and i5s. Changing the instruction decoder on those to use a slightly different (and maybe simpler) RISC instruction set would be a relatively simple task.

[Electro Detective]

Well whatever 'architecture' they decide to roll with, maybe they'll dump the mountain desktop eye candy and give their impoverished followers some coastal aerial views instead 


...so the spinning beachballs of death won't be out of place