Author Topic: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!  (Read 3371 times)

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Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

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Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« on: October 19, 2018, 12:54:23 pm »
I'm not sure if I've learnt something new, or I'm in the Twilight Zone !   :)
I've been an Elect/Tech for nearly 50 years, and love the smell of Bakelite being cut.
Hang in there... this gets wild...
Bakelite, or Polyoxybenzylmethyleneglycolanhydride,  was the first plastic made from synthetic components.
It is a thermosetting phenol formaldehyde resin, formed from a condensation reaction of phenol with formaldehyde.

Anyway... partially unrelated to this, I was looking at a YouTube Video about a very old Bakelite-Bodied Mouse-Trap.
It was initially in-effective, but that's beside the point !!  In the Video, (pointed to later), he showed the
'trap' in action somewhere, using only Infra-Red for the filming. It was not until drilling down through the Comments,
that someone mentioned about how/why the Bakelite appeared TRANSPARENT in Infra-Red ???  WHAT !!   8)

I reviewed it, and found the following. Here's the original video for now, but ignore it for the moment, except for
the part at 4:06 later, for what I am referencing...


1st, here's a picture of the Bakelite 'device' in normal light...


Now here's a picture from 4:06 in the video, under Infra-Red light...

The Bakelite 'body' is now transparent ??, and you can see the mouses head/snout come into view ???

There is very little I can find on the Internet for some reason, but i did find this from a book (image created)...

Which was from this site ref...

Materials: engineering, science, processing and design...

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=sqaH1CNY2isC&pg=PA462&lpg=PA462&dq=bakelite+transparent+infrared&source=bl&ots=f4IKd1G2tO&sig=CwhZD-ShFObADZPsZg536J6MDiA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKyqORspLeAhXUT30KHfcfBWkQ6AEwEXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=bakelite%20transparent%20infrared&f=false

This has blown my mind...  :) :)
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 
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Offline TheBay

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2018, 01:21:41 pm »
Wow, you learn something every day!
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2018, 01:54:59 pm »
Wow +1 ... thanks for bringing this out.  :-+

Instantly I thought about those voltnut's wrapping materials on their voltage references.

Offline Ampera

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2018, 01:59:54 pm »
This is pretty cool.

I quite like the material Bakelite, it has a heavy duty, almost made out of stone quality that doesn't really exist anywhere else. There are a plethora of reasons why it's not a brilliant construction material for anything in today's world, but I do like the feel of a good Bakelite telephone or something like that.
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Offline Whales

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2018, 02:36:39 pm »
Heads up: bakelite items sometimes have hidden internal reinforcement in the form of paper or asbestos.   

Phenolic paper PCBs (FR1, FR2) are in the same chemical family.

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2018, 03:17:12 pm »
Thanks for sharing! ++1

To me, Bakelite items bring back fond memories of my grandfather's workshop.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2018, 03:43:40 pm »
I did not know this about bakelite.
Thanks for sharing
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Offline rdl

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2018, 04:01:00 pm »
I experimented a bit with infrared photography back in the 80s (trying to photograph a ghost :) ). The Kodak IR filters I bought from the local photography shop (Wratten 87 or 88 something I think) were visually opaque. I wonder if I still have those somewhere?
 

Offline dmills

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2018, 04:04:02 pm »
The stuff has a bandgap? I wonder if there is at least the possibility of a three or four level system with a population lifetime in level 3 sufficiently greater then that in level 2 to allow a population inversion?

Pump it with enough light matching the upper exited state, add some IR mirrors, and get an undeniably steampunk laser!

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Offline Kjelt

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2018, 04:41:41 pm »
I also did not know this. I knew Bakelite or as Philips called it Philite had high electric isolation properties and could resist high temperatures (IIRC upto 275oC ).
I wonder now if this high temperature resistance could be because the infrared heat would go through it ?  :-//
 

Offline chickenHeadKnob

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2018, 09:11:29 pm »
Heads up: bakelite items sometimes have hidden internal reinforcement in the form of paper or asbestos.   

Phenolic paper PCBs (FR1, FR2) are in the same chemical family.

Yes and commonly wood flour for bulk castings. I think also talc powder, but that may have been applied to the mold surface only. What I find curious is that the mouse trap pictured looks dark/black indicating at least the inclusion of a colouring agent. I thought unfilled resin was a clear amber color, in the visual spectrum, and that any filler would make it opaque at longer wavelengths.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2018, 09:20:58 pm »
Anyone has a vintage bakelite tube radio? Please snap and post a thermal picture of the warm inside glow...
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Offline ivaylo

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2018, 07:11:07 am »
Anyone has a vintage bakelite tube radio? Please snap and post a thermal picture of the warm inside glow...
I believe my "Truetone" is bakelite. It warmed up until picking up the nearest station. Doesn't look transparent to me. The back is metal.
 
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Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2018, 09:18:58 am »
hmm 230V should be lethal.  :o
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Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2018, 12:08:26 pm »
Thanks to all. Definitely needs more research.
dmills ...  I thought you were "taking the piss" with it. Still not sure... haha...  ;D
ivaylo ...  Thanks for the images. I'll research the effect more !!
Kjelt  ...  I hear what you are saying. I'll research that aspect too !
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Bakelite... W.T.F. !!!
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2018, 01:52:33 pm »
[
I believe my "Truetone" is bakelite. It warmed up until picking up the nearest station. Doesn't look transparent to me. The back is metal.

First of all, congrats on this that little piece of history you own!

But to your question....you used a thermal imaging camera, correct? If so, that is long infrared.

By the looks of the mouse image, I believe it was shot in near infrared, around 900nm.

I used to own a Sony Cybershot camera which had selectable near-infrared capabilities. It allowed many interesting photographs. For instance, women who had had their hair dyed, would appear white in IR, regardless of their actual (fake) hair color!!

Most surveillance cameras have near infrared capabilities, and they automatically switch to that mode (along with the proper IR LEDs) as dusk approaches.
 


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