BATTERIES - where to buy them?!!!

[IanB]

I'd suggest to take the cheapest alkaline batteries from Aldi, Lidl, Ikea or whatever discounter you have in your area. Best bang for the buck. They won't last as long as premium cells...

This may or may not be true. Cells have two key properties: power output and capacity. When you buy premium cells they have generally been optimized for power output (good performance in high drain or demanding applications). This depends on the formulation of the cell.

However, capacity depends on the weight of materials inside the cell (a given weight of chemicals will deliver a corresponding amount of energy). Since even cheap cells weigh about the same as expensive cells, they will generally have a very similar ultimate capacity under low to moderate drain applications like DMMs.

If you need high power output (cameras, flash guns, motorized devices, portable soldering irons) it is much better to use rechargeable cells than alkaline cells. Even the most ridiculously expensive alkaline cells perform poorly under these conditions.

[Rolo]

Do not buy Duracell, these are not the same as a few years ago. The brand name is sold and the new owner still lives on that reputation. They are known to leak.
Here in Europe, the Netherlands, I always check where the cells are made. If it's Belgium or Germany I buy them. Don't care for the brand name thats printed on. There are few factory's for alkaline cells, Panasonic = Belgium, Varta = Germany.  They produce under different brands.

[james_s]

Several people on YouTube claim that Amazon Basic rechargeable AA cells are really re-labeled Eneloop
Amazon Basic are less expensive when they are on special.

I have some and they seem to work fine however my Eneloop cells say made in Japan and my Amazon cells say made in China, so unless something has changed I am highly skeptical of them being the same thing.

Generally I buy Eneloop cells because I know what I'm getting, they have proven themselves to be of excellent quality and consistency and I do like to support products made by a reputable source in first world countries over stuff that may be of questionable quality or made by slave labor to save money.

[rsjsouza]

Don't care for the brand name thats printed on. There are few factory's for alkaline cells, Panasonic = Belgium, Varta = Germany.  They produce under different brands.

Wow... I was reading and since January Energizer controls both Rayovac and Varta. Hopefully the quality will not erode.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spectrum-m-a-energizer/energizer-adds-rayovac-batteries-to-lineup-with-2-billion-deal-idUSKBN1F517T

[k8943]

Thanks everyone for a huge variety of responses!!!

Indeed there are lots of options here in Belgium - the difficulty is having a plan.

Weighing what I've read will head out to Ikea for some meatballs one weekday lunchtime,maybe get some plastic containers and then pick up a few batteries at no additional transport cost! Because it's easy will also consider a note in smartphone with a battery change date. Have suspicion that Ikea multipacks will leave me with more batteries than actually need within the expiry period, so can swap out aggressively.

https://www.ikea.com/be/fr/search/?k=pile+&N=0&No=0&Nr=AND%28content.type%3Ap%2Csku.browsable%3A1%29&summary=true

Not wishing to corrupt the purity of this thread.... bought the following gadget recently, not for testing batteries but for applying various constant loads to switching power supplies. Delighted with it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/150W-60V-10A-Constant-Current-Electronic-Load-Battery-Discharge-Capacity-Tester/32883419768.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dU8lkvp

Thanks all!!

[mzzj]

Several people on YouTube claim that Amazon Basic rechargeable AA cells are really re-labeled Eneloop
Amazon Basic are less expensive when they are on special.

I have some and they seem to work fine however my Eneloop cells say made in Japan and my Amazon cells say made in China, so unless something has changed I am highly skeptical of them being the same thing.

Generally I buy Eneloop cells because I know what I'm getting, they have proven themselves to be of excellent quality and consistency and I do like to support products made by a reputable source in first world countries over stuff that may be of questionable quality or made by slave labor to save money.

AFAIK Panasonic was moving much of the Eneloop production to china some time ago.

BTW, IKEA "LADDA" batteries are same as Eneloop Pro but cost  only 1/2 to 1/4 compared to eneloop!
https://petapixel.com/2018/02/16/eneloop-pro-20-batteries-ikea-ladda-5-batteries/

[mzzj]

Non-rechargeable batteries I order from mostly Digikey, Panasonic Industrial AA is 0,19 euros per piece as I order them 250 pcs per time for work..
About same price as IKEA but looks better when shipped back to customers inside their equipment 

LR44's for kids toys and digital calipers I have been ordering from ebay, GP has been usually quite cheap and works ok. (just stay away from weird brands and no-name batteries)

[james_s]

AFAIK Panasonic was moving much of the Eneloop production to china some time ago.

BTW, IKEA "LADDA" batteries are same as Eneloop Pro but cost  only 1/2 to 1/4 compared to eneloop!
https://petapixel.com/2018/02/16/eneloop-pro-20-batteries-ikea-ladda-5-batteries/

Interesting, I'll have to look into that. I'm willing to pay a significant premium for made in Japan, but if I'm going to buy Chinese batteries I'll buy them from one of the cheap brands.

Something that bothers me a bit in that article is the 2450mAh cells testing to only 2300mAh. One of the things that really sold me on the Eneloop cells is that the 2000mAh cells have always tested slightly more than the stated capacity. In a world where most printed specs are exaggerated bullshit something that actually exceeds the specs gets a lot of respect from me.

[IanB]

Something that bothers me a bit in that article is the 2450mAh cells testing to only 2300mAh. One of the things that really sold me on the Eneloop cells is that the 2000mAh cells have always tested slightly more than the stated capacity. In a world where most printed specs are exaggerated bullshit something that actually exceeds the specs gets a lot of respect from me.

It always used to be that the 2000 mAh Eneloops stated "min capacity 1950 mAh". In my testing they always came in around that, somewhere between 1950 and 2000.

The Eneloop Pro seems to be 2550 nominal, 2450 min, so they should come in over 2450 in testing. It might be that the cells that don't meet spec are sold off cheaply through secondary channels rather then being recycled? I've never bought any Eneloop Pro's, so I don't have any first hand test results.

(One thing that has characterized Eneloops in my testing is consistency. Every cell is nearly identical. That implies excellent process control all the way through the manufacturing process. If you get a bunch of cells that vary, they are not Eneloops.)

[deadlylover]

Something that bothers me a bit in that article is the 2450mAh cells testing to only 2300mAh. One of the things that really sold me on the Eneloop cells is that the 2000mAh cells have always tested slightly more than the stated capacity. In a world where most printed specs are exaggerated bullshit something that actually exceeds the specs gets a lot of respect from me.

A couple years ago I tested the latest AA Eneloop Pro's (Japan BK-HCD/4 says 2500mAh minimum!) versus the IKEA 2450's (also made in Japan, it'll say on the packaging), I got something like 2574mAh(Eneloop pro) versus 2542mAh(IKEA) on an analysing charger (Maha C9000, break-in mode, very similar to charging/discharging scheme used to rate NiMH batteries on datasheets).

I don't know if the Eneloops I tested are using a newer process or if it's just binning or even luck of the draw, but they did show a tiiiny capacity edge verses the IKEA batteries.
However, at $2.50 per cell in Australia the IKEA's are a no-brainer. Each time I go to IKEA I get a couple of packs just in case they suddenly discontinue the line. They're cheap enough that I don't get salty when family/friends accidentally throw them away to "do me a favour". (Sigh I lost a few Eneloop Pros this way...)

I've always wanted to re-do the tests on some serious gear and not just a consumer/hobby level charger, but I haven't had the opportunity yet to pick up fresh packs at the same time.

Apart from those particular Japan-made eneloop pros, I haven't seen any other 2500mAh minimum rated cells, they're usually 2450mAh even the Fujitsu ones.

[mzzj]

AFAIK Panasonic was moving much of the Eneloop production to china some time ago.

BTW, IKEA "LADDA" batteries are same as Eneloop Pro but cost  only 1/2 to 1/4 compared to eneloop!
https://petapixel.com/2018/02/16/eneloop-pro-20-batteries-ikea-ladda-5-batteries/

Interesting, I'll have to look into that. I'm willing to pay a significant premium for made in Japan, but if I'm going to buy Chinese batteries I'll buy them from one of the cheap brands.

Something that bothers me a bit in that article is the 2450mAh cells testing to only 2300mAh. One of the things that really sold me on the Eneloop cells is that the 2000mAh cells have always tested slightly more than the stated capacity. In a world where most printed specs are exaggerated bullshit something that actually exceeds the specs gets a lot of respect from me.

LADDA and Eneloop seem to perform exactly same:
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop%20AA%20HR-3UWXB%202450mAh%20(Black)%20UK.html
https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php

Some Eneloop PRO versions had slightly better results, as well as Panasonic Evolta BK-3HLC but it seems like at the cost of slightly higher internal impedance.
IKEA LADDA outperforms those two in terms of output energy and  amp-hours with high current discharge.
Possibly different generation of "PRO" or just luck of draw: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?364607-Overview-All-eneloop-batteries-2005-2018

I'm not so much into these "PRO" version Eneloops, the orginal ~1950mAh ones have better charge retention and they have spectacular self-life! I have some 12 years old eneloop batteries still in use and they seem to perform good as new.
PRO is also rated only for 500 cycles whereas the smaller capacity version is rated for 1000 to 2100 cycles depending on which era/generation battery package you have.

[Kjelt]

A couple years ago I tested the latest AA Eneloop Pro's (Japan BK-HCD/4 says 2500mAh minimum!) versus the IKEA 2450's (also made in Japan, it'll say on the packaging), I got something like 2574mAh(Eneloop pro) versus 2542mAh(IKEA) on an analysing charger (Maha C9000, break-in mode, very similar to charging/discharging scheme used to rate NiMH batteries on datasheets).

The main selling point for the Eneloops is that they only loose a few % charge in a year. I have them lying on the bench charged and after half a year if I need them I can use them right away. Do the Ikea's also have this because most NiMH I had over the years are discharging themselves internally quite rapidly and that seems to be also the cause of malfunction/leakage, because my Eneloops from 6 years old are still great and used them very little.

[deadlylover]

The main selling point for the Eneloops is that they only loose a few % charge in a year. I have them lying on the bench charged and after half a year if I need them I can use them right away. Do the Ikea's also have this because most NiMH I had over the years are discharging themselves internally quite rapidly and that seems to be also the cause of malfunction/leakage, because my Eneloops from 6 years old are still great and used them very little.

They sure do, most of the community suspect that the IKEA batteries, among others, come from the same factory that produces Eneloops in Japan. The feature you're talking about is known to be something like "Low Self Discharge" NiMH, usually on the package they'll say "ready to use".

[Mr. Scram]

Ikea has its batteries produced by major manufacturers. The regular batteries used to be made by Varta. They're smart enough not to reinvent the wheel when it doesn't lead to a decent product.

[Kjelt]

They sure do, most of the community suspect that the IKEA batteries, among others, come from the same factory that produces Eneloops in Japan. The feature you're talking about is known to be something like "Low Self Discharge" NiMH, usually on the package they'll say "ready to use".

That could be true but I would be suspicious about it, the Eneloops are the RollsRoyces of rechargeable batteries eg not cheap what Ikea would like to buy and sell. But it sure is possible.

[IanJ]

I've been using EBL 9 volt for a while now with no problems. The NiMH are kind of wimpy but the Li-ion are pretty close to alkaline. For AAA or larger, only use re-chargeable low self discharge NiMH type.

FWIW, I have about 40 EBL 9v 600mAH Lithium-Ion batteries in use randomly and continually charging/discharging and some are more than two years old. Only ever had 2 in that time that started to fail.

Ian.

[Mr. Scram]

That could be true but I would be suspicious about it, the Eneloops are the RollsRoyces of rechargeable batteries eg not cheap what Ikea would like to buy and sell. But it sure is possible.

The world of branding and what people are willing to spend on what's essentially a label is both wonderful and freightning. There are plenty of otherwise identical products that are simply differentiated by marketing and sold at much higher prices. I'm not sure that's the case here, but it wouldn't surprise me. Redeveloping a product is costly in itself and research indicates that people experience a veritable difference when using an identical but more expensive product. Physchology will allow Eneloops to be sold at higher prices if they didn't change a thing.

[Jeroen3]

We buy Duracell Industrial in bulk for years, at around €0.50 per unit. But I see IKEA's are only €0.18 per unit...  .

[DC1MC]

That could be true but I would be suspicious about it, the Eneloops are the RollsRoyces of rechargeable batteries eg not cheap what Ikea would like to buy and sell. But it sure is possible.

The world of branding and what people are willing to spend on what's essentially a label is both wonderful and freightning. There are plenty of otherwise identical products that are simply differentiated by marketing and sold at much higher prices. I'm not sure that's the case here, but it wouldn't surprise me. Redeveloping a product is costly in itself and research indicates that people experience a veritable difference when using an identical but more expensive product. Physchology will allow Eneloops to be sold at higher prices if they didn't change a thing.

Well, the main question is, hot to easy differentiate between those allegedly identical products ? Yeah, a label is just a label, but how can one see if this battery will leak or not, how thick is the Zinc cylinder, how good are the electrodes and so on ?
Not so long ago, the brand and model differentiation was reasonably clear, you knew what to buy to put in your 2$ torch and what to buy for your 200$ Fluke, today, it's not so easy, the fakes and brand and model dilution really made a hit an miss every battery lot buy.
I believe this actually caused the initial thread, at least in Germany there is no place that  know of where you can get consistently performing batteries, no matter the price. Buy now 50, they behave in some way, but 6 month later another 50, totally different behavior, same supplier, same brand, same model 

 DC1MC

[Mr. Scram]

Well, the main question is, hot to easy differentiate between those allegedly identical products ? Yeah, a label is just a label, but how can one see if this battery will leak or not, how thick is the Zinc cylinder, how good are the electrodes and so on ?
Not so long ago, the brand and model differentiation was reasonably clear, you knew what to buy to put in your 2$ torch and what to buy for your 200$ Fluke, today, it's not so easy, the fakes and brand and model dilution really made a hit an miss every battery lot buy.
I believe this actually caused the initial thread, at least in Germany there is no place that  know of where you can get consistently performing batteries, no matter the price. Buy now 50, they behave in some way, but 6 month later another 50, totally different behavior, same supplier, same brand, same model 

 DC1MC

The answer is the same as always. Benchmarks and teardowns.

[GlennSprigg]

That could be true but I would be suspicious about it, the Eneloops are the RollsRoyces of rechargeable batteries eg not cheap what Ikea would like to buy and sell. But it sure is possible.

The world of branding and what people are willing to spend on what's essentially a label is both wonderful and freightning. There are plenty of otherwise identical products that are simply differentiated by marketing and sold at much higher prices. I'm not sure that's the case here, but it wouldn't surprise me. Redeveloping a product is costly in itself and research indicates that people experience a veritable difference when using an identical but more expensive product. Physchology will allow Eneloops to be sold at higher prices if they didn't change a thing.

Yes, you are right, about 'branding' in general !...
A VAST amount of so-called/named products are made in the same factories, and simply re-labeled.

In Adelaide, a food producer I worked for as a Tech, had 5 different 'Butter' products, whereby the ONLY
difference, was stopping the machines & changing the product packaging!!!
They 'produced' 3 totally different Brands of 'Honey', for various States... The ONLY change was 'Packaging'.
It used to make me laugh how little old ladies would 'Swear' by a particular brand !!!  :-)

There are companies that made 5+1/4" floppy-disks, and then CD's & DVD's. They were truly high-end, like
'Verbatim' for example. But then other suppliers demanded HIGH volumes from them, cheap.  (Then sold
under shonky sounding crappy names)... Because although they were the exact same product, 'Verbatim'
did not want their name associated with a 'cheap', (and so possibly below par) product.

The point I'm making, is that 'cheap' doesn't always mean rubbish... although can often be the case !
Re: Batteries, ONE of the criteria that usually strikes me first, is their WEIGHT !!  :-)
If you pick up a packet of 4, 8, 10 AAA/AA etc batteries, and it weighs a 'feather' compared to 'normal',
then you can be SURE they are just rubbish, with no chemical capacity what so ever !!  :-)

[Kjelt]

If you pick up a packet of 4, 8, 10 AAA/AA etc batteries, and it weighs a 'feather' compared to 'normal',
then you can be SURE they are just rubbish, with no chemical capacity what so ever !!  :-)

Yup reminds me of the cheap C and D rechargeable batteries of the past which contained an AA battery inside.
Lateron they even filled with some kind of cement to make it less obvious.

[Mr. Scram]

Some batteries supplied with products are also suprisingly light. It always feels like half of it is made of cardboard.

[DC1MC]

Well, the main question is, hot to easy differentiate between those allegedly identical products ? Yeah, a label is just a label, but how can one see if this battery will leak or not, how thick is the Zinc cylinder, how good are the electrodes and so on ?
Not so long ago, the brand and model differentiation was reasonably clear, you knew what to buy to put in your 2$ torch and what to buy for your 200$ Fluke, today, it's not so easy, the fakes and brand and model dilution really made a hit an miss every battery lot buy.
I believe this actually caused the initial thread, at least in Germany there is no place that  know of where you can get consistently performing batteries, no matter the price. Buy now 50, they behave in some way, but 6 month later another 50, totally different behavior, same supplier, same brand, same model 

 DC1MC

The answer is the same as always. Benchmarks and teardowns.

And some time later, you do this again, and then again ? Some people would like to pay for a bit more consistency, but it seem that this is gone now, just the increased price remains for what was once some consistent performance brands/models that one could count on.

 DC1MC

[Mr. Scram]

And some time later, you do this again, and then again ? Some people would like to pay for a bit more consistency, but it seem that this is gone now, just the increased price remains for what was once some consistent performance brands/models that one could count on.

 DC1MC

It depends on whether you depend on the quality. If I make a quality product and require that level of performance, you can be sure that I run regular benchmarks to see whether the product still complies with what I assume and what the manufacturer lists. Just shoving anything in your product will lead to issues sooner or later. In lower tier products a less consistent and guaranteerd performance is part of the price people pay.

For my own use I always assume products can vary between batches, especially volume products like batteries.