Blind a Cam with a Led Lamp legal in Europe?!

[Lord of nothing]

Hi
In many country are often Security Cam on Public Property.
So is there a Law in the different European County who regulate that? 
Here in Austria I saw no Law who is against an (Temporary) Blinding of a Cam. 
THX

[Zero999]

I have no idea. I suppose if it's temporary i.e. not damaging the camera, then I don't see why it would be illegal, unless it's to allow someone to commit a crime, in which case one could be accused of being an accessory. If it's using a powerful laser or a paint-ball to disable the camera, then it would be classed as criminal damage, which is a crime.

[Augustus]

Try to blind some speed cams, instant fun with the officers hiding behind the bushes 

[Lord of nothing]

  Hmm its not illegal to light a Powerfull LED Lamp during the Day in Germany.
But its a nice try the worst thing is the deport me from Germany.

[CJay]

Another "problem" is that it is often good practice to "chain" the camera images up. So one camera will be recording the area that contains the other camera itself. This has allowed for many a silly thief to be caught stealing or trying to disable a camera.

That's not always necessary, there was some lovely footage on Merseyside police's website asking for the identity of a 'genius' who was stealing high resolution CCTV cameras, he seemed to think the images were held on the camera and wasn't wearing a mask or anything to disguise himself as he unscrewed them.

[X]

That's not always necessary, there was some lovely footage on Merseyside police's website asking for the identity of a 'genius' who was stealing high resolution CCTV cameras, he seemed to think the images were held on the camera and wasn't wearing a mask or anything to disguise himself as he unscrewed them.

True. I probably shouldn't have said "good practice" - it isn't practical most of the time. It's probably good practice if the cams are $1100 a piece though.

My personal favourites are the nefarious chaps who put on the mask after being caught on several hours worth of CCTV footage.

[Lord of nothing]

It is a bit suspicious that you're asking this in the first place.

Sure because it illegal in my Country to cover the Face in Public.  So I dont want to get filmed by Cams who are in Public.
For example the Iranian Embassy have cam from there Yard who film the Streets and nobody know what the do with the Image. Facial scan? 
Here is legal to have Cam outside but not record the Image.

Lets say I know where the Cams are. The are just annoying.

[X]

Sure because it illegal in my Country to cover the Face in Public.  So I dont want to get filmed by Cams who are in Public.

I don't get it. Why do you even want to cover your face? Privacy?
How do you intend to cover up your face? Assuming balaclavas attract funny looks, your next best bet is either the Ned Kelly outfit or the Muslim lady "bed sheet ghost walking" approach.
Genuine questions, as I'm not sure whether a covered face (balaclava included) would make Germans suspicious or if this is a normal thing you guys are used to seeing.

For example the Iranian Embassy have cam from there Yard who film the Streets and nobody know what the do with the Image. Facial scan? 
Here is legal to have Cam outside but not record the Image.

Lets say I know where the Cams are. The are just annoying.

You live in a countrywhere leaded solder is illegal but lead acid batteries are totally no big deal, and saying "Hitler did nothing wrong" can get you in jail. In this instance, your best bet is to be practical. Your chances of successfully blinding the necessary cameras with the LED lamp is very limited, unless you have one of those 100-watt whoppers, in which case someone is going to notice. Even then, you may blind one, but it would have recorded you for seconds, minutes, or hours before you turned the LED on.

[Cyberdragon]

I would assume you would have it on before you walked into frame, provided you know the FOV.

A ski-mask, large sunglasses, and other things can be used to cover your face.

[Lord of nothing]

A ski-mask, large sunglasses, and other things can be used to cover your face.

Who are all illegal. 

[Monkeh]

You're in public. You'll be seen. Deal with it.

[rsjsouza]

Sunglasses are illegal while walking on the streets?!? 

[Lord of nothing]

Sunglasses are illegal while walking on the streets?!? 

If the are to big yes. 

You'll be seen. Deal with it.

Sure you know that a Server never forget?

[Eka]

Big floppy wide brimmed hats...

[Marco]

In many country are often Security Cam on Public Property.

They are almost certainly government property, at least in my country it's illegal to have a camera intentionally cover the public street (they are allowed to have some bycatch in the margins). The police won't be impressed by you saying " but it wasn't specifically against the law".

[Monkeh]

Sure you know that a Server never forget?

Yes, they make sure to record every second you spend walking by.

Please see someone about your paranoia.

[Lord of nothing]

 

Yes, they make sure to record every second you spend walking by.

Please see someone about your paranoia.

You know about Biometric and Facial recongnission (or how the get spelled) ? You walk by a Cam and the (could) Generate a Hash and compare it with a Database and Store the Infos. I watch many Security Conference and some b2b Conference where the talk about upcoming stuff. So Pandora's Box is wide open...

at least in my country it's illegal to have a camera intentionally cover the public street

How about Video System for your Door? Mine will have a Cam soon. 

The police won't be impressed by you saying " but it wasn't specifically against the law".

You watched https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=meldkamer+2018 ?
It look like the Gov. have some Cams in various City how about play with that?

[Monkeh]

Yes, they make sure to record every second you spend walking by.

Please see someone about your paranoia.

You know about Biometric and Facial recongnission (or how the get spelled) ? You walk by a Cam and the (could) Generate a Hash and compare it with a Database and Store the Infos. I watch many Security Conference and some b2b Conference where the talk about upcoming stuff. So Pandora's Box is wide open...

Yes, I'm quite aware of such technologies.

Going around shining a bright light at any cameras you think you know exist will not help you any - if anything they'll just be more interested in you.

[CatalinaWOW]

You are basically asking about E-O countermeasures.  There is a rich literature on this subject, some of which is unclassified and available to the public.  Read and understand the published literature and then think about your approach.

With almost any surveillance system the problem is too much data and trying to figure out how to zero in on the interesting information.  Which is why so many terrorists are shown on tape after they have accomplished their dirty deeds.  Your proposals go a long way towards solving that problem for the watchers.

[tsman]

Maybe you can start listening to Insane Clown Posse and and put on appropriate makeup to fool the facial recognition software. It'd be more practical than carrying around a tiny personal sun to blind all nearby cameras

[CopperCone]

A ski-mask, large sunglasses, and other things can be used to cover your face.

Who are all illegal. 

Where are ski masks illegal? How do you do exercise in the winter?

[Lord of nothing]

and put on appropriate makeup to fool the facial recognition software.

Illegal to. 

Where are ski masks illegal? How do you do exercise in the winter?

AT, with out. You are not allowed to cover or hide your face.

[kerouanton]

This recent paper seems appropriate here:
Practical Attacks on Face Recognition with Infrared
https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.04683

[CopperCone]

and put on appropriate makeup to fool the facial recognition software.

Illegal to. 

Where are ski masks illegal? How do you do exercise in the winter?

AT, with out. You are not allowed to cover or hide your face.

How do you ski and go outside in the winter? My lips would be destroyed.

[Monkeh]

and put on appropriate makeup to fool the facial recognition software.

Illegal to. 

Where are ski masks illegal? How do you do exercise in the winter?

AT, with out. You are not allowed to cover or hide your face.

How do you ski and go outside in the winter? My lips would be destroyed.

You put your balaclava on like a normal person.

There's a big difference between wearing appropriate clothing and intentionally hiding your face.

[CopperCone]

and put on appropriate makeup to fool the facial recognition software.

Illegal to. 

Where are ski masks illegal? How do you do exercise in the winter?

AT, with out. You are not allowed to cover or hide your face.

How do you ski and go outside in the winter? My lips would be destroyed.

You put your balaclava on like a normal person.

There's a big difference between wearing appropriate clothing and intentionally hiding your face.

I don't see how that helps your nose or lips but ok

[X]

Sure you know that a Server never forget?

Yes, they make sure to record every second you spend walking by.

Please see someone about your paranoia.

Even if they do, I doubt they have the time or money to store footage forever. Hard drives and SSDs are not infinite, and neither are government budgets. They will be recording other people as well, and there's too much "background noise" for them to worry about.
On the other hand, if the OP keeps shining bright LEDs at the cameras deliberately, they'll take interest.

[Monkeh]

I don't see how that helps your nose or lips but ok

Balaclava is the civilised name for a ski mask. And by civilised I mean named after a battle hundreds of people died in, but hey, long live the queen.

[CopperCone]

I don't see how that helps your nose or lips but ok

Balaclava is the civilised name for a ski mask. And by civilised I mean named after a battle hundreds of people died in, but hey, long live the queen.

\

I thought it was the one that has a big hole for your entire face, where a ski mask only has eye holes. And something in between has eye holes and a mouth hole but protects your nose. I like ski masks because you can put on some sunglasses in the winter and you are very protected against strong winds that blow snow in your face. Otherwise you would inhale ice dust and chaff your lips, and they fit nicely in a jacket pocket.

[Monkeh]

I don't see how that helps your nose or lips but ok

Balaclava is the civilised name for a ski mask. And by civilised I mean named after a battle hundreds of people died in, but hey, long live the queen.

\

I thought it was the one that has a big hole for your entire face, where a ski mask only has eye holes. And something in between has eye holes and a mouth hole but protects your nose.

No, it's a catchall term. And that big hole is elastic typically, it doesn't have to expose more than your eyes.

[CopperCone]

I don't see how that helps your nose or lips but ok

Balaclava is the civilised name for a ski mask. And by civilised I mean named after a battle hundreds of people died in, but hey, long live the queen.

\

I thought it was the one that has a big hole for your entire face, where a ski mask only has eye holes. And something in between has eye holes and a mouth hole but protects your nose.

No, it's a catchall term. And that big hole is elastic typically, it doesn't have to expose more than your eyes.

Seems tight. I have ones that seem more designed to have a eye slot and some that are more designed to have a round hole.

[BrianHG]

If you flash the camera for illegal purpose, then it's accessory, I guess.
BTW, laws really change depending on country. For instance, in China, obscuring license plate (even unintentionally, such as with dirt or snow) results in the heaviest traffic violation penalty -- all 12 points deducted, mandatory defensive driving training, and in the meantime, driver license suspended until defensive driving class is finished and exam is passed.

The Chinese police would have a field day here in Canada when we have those occasional heavy and sticky enough snow falls where license plates get covered without you knowing it within a minute or 2 while driving, even if you started without snow on your license plate.

[Halcyon]

Another "problem" is that it is often good practice to "chain" the camera images up. So one camera will be recording the area that contains the other camera itself. This has allowed for many a silly thief to be caught stealing or trying to disable a camera.

You see this everywhere here. Where ever there is a fixed speed/red light camera, there is a CCTV camera covering the traffic enforcement camera and a secondary CCTV camera covering the first CCTV camera, that way nothing can be stolen or damaged without being caught.

[Halcyon]

On a completely separate note, I would love to see small infra-red LED devices which people can wear that would disable a smartphone's camera/recording capability. I know this technology is nothing new, Apple patented this idea and one of the intended purposes was to prevent recording at concerts, theatres etc...

Given that it's not unlawful to record anyone in a public place, it would be a great way to protect your privacy nonetheless. Regardless of what the law says, while I cannot physically grab someone's phone or force them to delete data, I should be able to choose who records my image and if that means disabling their camera while it's pointed in my direction, then this is something I'd love to see.

It could be incorporated rather seamlessly into clothing, accessories, bags etc...

[Monkeh]

On a completely separate note, I would love to see small infra-red LED devices which people can wear that would disable a smartphone's camera/recording capability. I know this technology is nothing new, Apple patented this idea and one of the intended purposes was to prevent recording at concerts, theatres etc...

Given that it's not unlawful to record anyone in a public place, it would be a great way to protect your privacy nonetheless. Regardless of what the law says, while I cannot physically grab someone's phone or force them to delete data, I should be able to choose who records my image and if that means disabling their camera while it's pointed in my direction, then this is something I'd love to see.

It could be incorporated rather seamlessly into clothing, accessories, bags etc...

With the inevitable result of people having to stand around for 20 minutes waiting for everyone wearing a tag to fuck off before taking a photo of something.

E: Not to mention people just blanketing areas to annoy everyone.

[Halcyon]

On a completely separate note, I would love to see small infra-red LED devices which people can wear that would disable a smartphone's camera/recording capability. I know this technology is nothing new, Apple patented this idea and one of the intended purposes was to prevent recording at concerts, theatres etc...

Given that it's not unlawful to record anyone in a public place, it would be a great way to protect your privacy nonetheless. Regardless of what the law says, while I cannot physically grab someone's phone or force them to delete data, I should be able to choose who records my image and if that means disabling their camera while it's pointed in my direction, then this is something I'd love to see.

It could be incorporated rather seamlessly into clothing, accessories, bags etc...

With the inevitable result of people having to stand around for 20 minutes waiting for everyone wearing a tag to fuck off before taking a photo of something.

Oh well *shrug*

How on earth did we survive before phones had cameras?

I speak from experience. I was trying to do my job and some moron decided to shine his phone camera in my face. I had no lawful reason to stop him. Unfortunately there are no laws against being a complete and utter dick head. The only way I could "stop" him was to shine my torch right back at him. That's just one example, I can think of many more.

[Monkeh]

On a completely separate note, I would love to see small infra-red LED devices which people can wear that would disable a smartphone's camera/recording capability. I know this technology is nothing new, Apple patented this idea and one of the intended purposes was to prevent recording at concerts, theatres etc...

Given that it's not unlawful to record anyone in a public place, it would be a great way to protect your privacy nonetheless. Regardless of what the law says, while I cannot physically grab someone's phone or force them to delete data, I should be able to choose who records my image and if that means disabling their camera while it's pointed in my direction, then this is something I'd love to see.

It could be incorporated rather seamlessly into clothing, accessories, bags etc...

With the inevitable result of people having to stand around for 20 minutes waiting for everyone wearing a tag to fuck off before taking a photo of something.

Oh well *shrug*

How on earth did we survive before phones had cameras?

I speak from experience. I was trying to do my job and some moron decided to shine his phone camera in my face. I had no lawful reason to stop him. Unfortunately there are no laws against being a complete and utter dick head. The only way I could "stop" him was to shine my torch right back at him. That's just one example, I can think of many more.

We took photos with these.

What's your IR tag going to do about that, comrade?

[Halcyon]

We took photos with these:

What's your IR tag going to do about that, comrade?

Precisely. My issue isn't about the every day tourist or photographer. It's about the morons that use and abuse their right to use cameras in public. I have no issues with being caught up by some person taking a photo of me in a scene. I do have a problem with people recording me without asking me first because they want to be annoying.

Your average idiot on the street is unlikely to carry around a separate camera.

[Eka]

It is a bit suspicious that you're asking this in the first place.

Sure because it illegal in my Country to cover the Face in Public.

So, what is a lady in mourning supposed to do?

[Zero999]

and put on appropriate makeup to fool the facial recognition software.

Illegal to. 

Where are ski masks illegal? How do you do exercise in the winter?

AT, with out. You are not allowed to cover or hide your face.

How do you ski and go outside in the winter? My lips would be destroyed.

Where do you live?

Few places in Europe get that cold, except in the mountains and when it's cold, it's generally calm, so there's little chance of frostbite. Although the original poster is from Austria, which is a mountainous country, but I doubt there are that many cameras, high up.

[Augustus]

There are some proven working low-tech solutions though 

[CJay]

Just develop 'keen' fashion sense

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/04/anti-surveillance-clothing-facial-recognition-hyperface

[IanMacdonald]

How do you ski and go outside in the winter? My lips would be destroyed.

Question of appropriateness for situation. We get youths wearing hoods in hot weather. They claim it's a fashion thing but clearly it's very uncomfortable and no sensible person would do that unless they have another reason. Reason is usually that they're looking for opportunities for crime.  What they don't realise is that modern cameras can capture their face in near darkness anyway despite the hood, so wearing it just means they come under suspicion and get their photo emailed to the local cops in case they are a known.. well.. a known hood.