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Offline tooki

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2017, 12:43:59 AM »
Tin foil hat much??

The restrictions on civilian GPS are entirely reasonable, insofar as they only kick in above 60’000 feet, which no civilian aircraft reaches. The other restrictions shown in this thread are not legal ones, but technical ones, because no one GPS receiver is optimized for all usage scenarios. Consumer GPS tends to be optimized for the typical consumer GPS applications, i.e. on the ground, at well-below-subsonic speeds.

TSA restrictions on homemade gadgets: no such restriction actually exists. But since the local TSA agents have final say on what does and doesn’t board, and they mostly got their “what a bomb looks like” training from Hollywood movies, when they see wires, they freak out. But that still does not mean it’s an official restriction.
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2017, 01:04:03 AM »

You have to try to educate the people at the airport. In some cases it is not possible as it is not possible to make them smile no matter how hard you try.

I had the mother of all arguments with a women at CDG who insisted I could not board a plane with my Insulin. She lost eventually due to intervention from her boss but for sure I am glad I have never had to deal with her again.

I have also carried a lot of high voltage capacitors on planes, these are about a foot long, circular and brown, oil filled paper wound things. They raise a lot of eyebrows but I have never been refused.
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2017, 01:56:53 AM »
Please, let me apologize in advance for the long message that follows.

Tin foil hat much??
Well, not exactly that much of a tinfoil hatted; just see the smilies at my comment!

Yet, I do not buy all that governmental terrorist thing propaganda. I can remember myself boarding on planes without even having to show my ID; but this used to be happening a looong time ago, before the so-called '911 terrorist attacks' that gave birth to yet another set of uncalled wars* (while making a few very special individuals filthy rich) in expense on our freedom**.


-George



[ * ] Instances of Use of United States Armed Forces Abroad, 1798-2017, by the Congressional Research Service itself...

[ ** ] This is going to be a brief philosophical dissection of the term 'freedom,' since is not so complicated as it seems to be.

Firstly, I have an appeal to those who will feel to be inclined to, not to try to give me any nonsense about any member(s) that became ‘political,’ so their thread(s) should be pre-emptively locked or deleted. That is because, even a baby's crying to the mother for more milk is a political expression! Should it be banned, too, and be left to die from malnutrition because it ‘became political’?

Please, do not confuse Ideology with Philosophy because the opposite of superstition and ideology (which by definition are both dogmatic) is philosophy. Now, what is philosophy, in plain terms? It is, among other things, a notion according to which, nothing (and no one) is above healthy and constructive criticism. It is about questioning everything and everyone (even the so-called ‘authorities’ on any subject matter) if we really want to get to the next level of comprehending our reality.

Well, freedom is not just a notion. Freedom is one of the most important parameters for the quality of the life someone has, because being free to choose and to act is a cardinal rule for any kind of intelligent life. Even dolphins are free to choose whether to take their next breath or not, if they feel they should not (another little known fact about dolphins is that they are the only mammals, besides humans, that continue to be playing games after their puberty and until the final days of their lives).

So, being 'free' is imperative for any intelligent human being; but, be free to do what, exactly? Unfortunately, the term "freedom" does not reveal anything about the notion(s) it represents because it is just a mere translation of the Hellenic term «?????????» (elephteria) for a language that was created not before the Common Era and whose first writings are dated even later in time.

Our forefather Aristotle used to say that the most enslaved persons are the ones who believe that they are free (but, factually, they are not). And that has been written two and a half millennia ago; it has been written one and a half millennium before the written manifestation of the term 'freedom.'

Having the privilege to be natively speaking the mother of all the Romance languages, especially under the light of the fact that the Romance languages are derived from the Classical Hellenic language to a greater or lesser extent (since the Latin alphabet, which is now being used by the 3/5 of the Earth's population, actually is the Chalcidian alphabet, an archaic Euboean alphabet that originated from the ancient city-state of Chalcis in Euboea right after the end of the Trojan War, which has most probably taken place five thousand one hundred years ago, during 3087..3077 BCE), is very easy to explain what freedom really is because every term of the Hellenic language has a special meaning derived from its root-words, the terms it is consisted of.

According to etymology, ????????? (eleftheria: freedom) is the natural-given right (and not a legislation-given one, as we are falsely being let to believe) of every human being to be ???????? (elephthein: to be going, from ?????? (elephtho: to go) ???? (opou: wherever) ??? (tis: someone) ??? (erà: loves to, from ??? (ero): to love/desire). It is that simple! On the other hand, 'freedom' should never be confused with 'liberty' because the latter one is the limited freedom granted to someone (for example, to a prisoner or to a solder) who is NOT free to go wherever he pleases to.

Now, are we really free? Just ask yourselves what, for example, will be the cost of a spontaneous decision for someone to not go to work this morning (or, for the whole week or month) because they felt like it: Would they not ‘lose’ their so-called ‘possessions’ that were silently placed as a collateral in order for them to be extortable and, thus, controllable by the establishment?

By definition, someone who is free is fearless. This is why all the ancient Hellenic art depicted faces having a subtle smile: the smile of fearlessness, derived from their true freedom: the freedom their free-thinking granted them. Those people were the only ones in human history that used to speak to their gods standing tall and looking them straight in the eyes and, often, arguing with them if they felt that they were wronged by their gods! Of course, I feel I should mention the obvious lack of freedom for the members of any oppressed societies due to their being under dogmatic rule, like theocracies, politocracies, or any form of membership in dogmatic clubs ruled by ways of fear...

As I have written in my signature's thread, we are born free human beings but we let ourselves to be enslaved with or without our consent and, most of the times, without our knowledge of that fact due to our cultivated ignorance. That is because freedom (or subjection or anything else) is firstly being cultivated in our minds, just like everything is. These directives are cultivated and written deep in our minds during childhood (see the paedobaptism practices that have been imposed to everyone in our society since the sixth century CE in the Middle Ages Byzantine Empire by the Codex Justinianus, which basically was a harmonization, if not a merge, of the state and the church institutions power; just see the way of creation of ruthless people or of submissive masses throughout history: Their common denominator is their deep indoctrination, which can only happen if their ‘conditioning’ begun since birth). Only after the successful completion of that procedure of cultivation of the freedom (of the subjection or of anything else), these cultivated qualities can manifest their selves in any other forms in that person’s life activity.

Do not forget that someone born in prison sees the prison bars as a decoration of the place and not as the unbendable steel restriction to their freedom, because they do not know what it is or what it feels like to be really free: they only know of what they have been told about what freedom is and feels like by their social counterparts who were also born in prison. This is also documented by Plato in his 'Allegory of the Cave' 2,400 years ago! So, what are the odds for those specific fellow men of ours to break really free from their own mental bondage, which was persistently and deeply instilled to them during upbringing? And if they managed to break free from their indoctrination, what would be the odds for them to survive in a society that has not?
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2017, 05:56:48 AM »
Things get X-rayed - and if it's not something with a familiar X-ray profile, expect some attention.  That attention is going to be from people who are focused on safety - not understanding technology.

Most of them are mainly interested in not being fired, which means following The Book Of Procedure. How that corresponds to safety is a hotly debated question.

I was expecting aggro when taking a lightly modified reference voltage between the UK and Germany. I took a DVM plus leads to be able to show them it "worked", but in the event I just dumped it all on the conveyor belt and it sailed through, twice. A pleasant surprise, for once.

They probably realised that if they stopped me I would take great delight in a lengthy explanation and demonstration of how it worked :)

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I wouldn't like to speculate on how you might go - but expect anything from a cursory glance to an interrogation.

Neither would I; it is also location and time dependent. That's part of the deterrent.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2017, 06:13:22 AM »
Tin foil hat much??

Having been arrested and interrogated by local law enforcement for the crime of having a switched attenuator sitting on the dashboard of my car, nobody is paranoid enough.  I certainly was not.  Now I keep a couple of blankets in my car to throw over test equipment or any other cargo to keep it out of sight.

It was very much like a Jack Bauer interrogation scene from 24 with the law enforcement professional shaking the attenuator in my face while yelling questions except this occurred a couple years before the TV series 24 was produced.

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The other restrictions shown in this thread are not legal ones, but technical ones, because no one GPS receiver is optimized for all usage scenarios. Consumer GPS tends to be optimized for the typical consumer GPS applications, i.e. on the ground, at well-below-subsonic speeds.

That behavior by U-blox receivers puzzles me.  I understand how it exists but not why the receiver cannot dynamically adapt.  None of the Garmin receivers I have used over the years has had a problem on aircraft or degraded accuracy (that I noticed) because of it.  Maybe U-blox being intended for embedded use expects the controlling system to configure the mode as needed; they are explicit that this can be done in real time.

Most of them are mainly interested in not being fired, which means following The Book Of Procedure. How that corresponds to safety is a hotly debated question.

The Book of Procedure is often (usually?) written to circumvent civil rights.  There was a dissent in a relatively recent US Supreme Court decision which pointed out that the court was laying out exactly how to do this.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 09:16:51 AM by David Hess »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2017, 08:35:21 AM »
Having been arrested and interrogated by local law enforcement for the crime of having a switched attenuator sitting on the dashboard of my car, nobody is paranoid enough.

Three decades ago a colleague from Colorado told me a story. He was travelling through Louisiana and was stopped by a local policeman, who asked to see his driving licence adding "now don't you go foolin' me, boy".

That puzzled my colleague until half an hour later, when he suddenly realised that the policeman was illiterate.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Beamin

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2017, 11:37:27 PM »
Tin foil hat much??

Having been arrested and interrogated by local law enforcement for the crime of having a switched attenuator sitting on the dashboard of my car, nobody is paranoid enough.  I certainly was not.  Now I keep a couple of blankets in my car to throw over test equipment or any other cargo to keep it out of sight.

It was very much like a Jack Bauer interrogation scene from 24 with the law enforcement professional shaking the attenuator in my face while yelling questions except this occurred a couple years before the TV series 24 was produced.

Do tell! What did they think it was? I once had my guns taken away when the cops opened my trunk and found eight loaded ak47 magazines two ak's and a hand gun. It was a bitch to get them back and I didn't commit any crime. My pupils dilate very large at night and they thought I was on drugs and I wouldn't take a drug test (I was on prescription drugs (control IV) and they can give you a DUI even if you haven't broken any traffic laws and you are taking them as prescribed.)
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2017, 05:35:23 AM »
Do tell! What did they think it was?

What did they think the switched attenuator was?  It was incriminating, reasonable suspicion to detain and interrogate, and probable cause for arrest.  After an hour of tearing my car apart and not finding anything, they magnanimously "unarrested" me.

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My pupils dilate very large at night and they thought I was on drugs ...

Or they just said that to justify reasonable suspicion.  The point of the dissent in the USSC case was that the court was laying out precise rules whereby law enforcement could game reasonable suspicion and probable cause to justify their actions to the court.
 

Online suicidaleggroll

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2017, 05:45:25 AM »
I bring electronics with me all the time on planes.  Just a month or so ago I flew from Colorado to Florida with a ~2'x2' ESD bag in my carry-on that had around 20 custom PCBs inside, all populated, some wired together, some not, none in any kind of enclosure or box.  No weird looks or questions from any TSA agents on either flight (to/from).  That was probably the 10th or so trip I've made with custom electronics in my carry-on without any kind of enclosure or box, and I've never had anybody ask me about them, even flying internationally to South America and back.  I did have a screwdriver confiscated once because it was more than 6" long (WTF am I going to do with a 7" long #2 Philips screwdriver that I couldn't do with a pen?), but that's it.

The only hangup I could see here is the battery, none of my devices had any kind of battery with them.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2017, 06:06:49 AM »
The only hangup I could see here is the battery, none of my devices had any kind of battery with them.

For hand baggage you have to be able to demonstrate it works; dead battery => goes in hold.

The local auction house is full of kindles/phones/laptops being sold as "airport unclaimed baggage". Last month there was 193 lots, with a lot typically being 3 kindles or a couple of ipads! The month before that had 212 such lots.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2017, 07:19:37 AM »
For hand baggage you have to be able to demonstrate it works; dead battery => goes in hold.

I do not remember them checking that on my laptop but it was back around 2005 and they did take it out of my sight so they might have checked it themselves.  I wonder now though if a laptop which boots into Linux/BSD just asking for a password for the full disk encryption as part of the boot process would be considered "working".  They did not care about my handheld GPS.
 

Online suicidaleggroll

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2017, 07:24:12 AM »
For hand baggage you have to be able to demonstrate it works; dead battery => goes in hold.

I do not remember them checking that on my laptop but it was back around 2005 and they did take it out of my sight so they might have checked it themselves.  I wonder now though if a laptop which boots into Linux/BSD just asking for a password for the full disk encryption as part of the boot process would be considered "working".  They did not care about my handheld GPS.

I've flown many times across and out of the country.  I've never been asked to turn on or explain any piece of electronics, be it a laptop, phone, or bare electronics board with flying leads.  Everybody flies with at least a laptop and a phone now, if they stopped even a small fraction of them and asked them to boot it up to see if it worked, nobody would ever get through security.  They're pushing through at least a person a second at any reasonably busy airport, there's no time for that.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 07:25:59 AM by suicidaleggroll »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2017, 08:12:32 AM »
For hand baggage you have to be able to demonstrate it works; dead battery => goes in hold.

I do not remember them checking that on my laptop but it was back around 2005 and they did take it out of my sight so they might have checked it themselves.  I wonder now though if a laptop which boots into Linux/BSD just asking for a password for the full disk encryption as part of the boot process would be considered "working".  They did not care about my handheld GPS.

They just want to see it isn't a bomb; anything which boots isn't a bomb. Unless, of course, this week's definitions have changed. Yup, this is all subject to change, as does with monotonous regularity.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Beamin

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2017, 07:45:56 AM »
I think it depends on how bored / stupid/ or how much "mall cop" syndrome the TSA agent has.

Every time I go to the airport I always notice how they don't check this and don't check that. Would be a good job to work for the TSA and see what you could slip past them. I really don't feel any safer with the TSA as most agents are people who just want a paycheck and nothing else. I don't think the TSA has caught one terrorist for the billions spent on it as the shoe bomber and underware bombers all went undetected. Next will be the asshole or vagina bomber or even surgically implanted bomb fetus pregnant bomber.

Remember that daily show interview where the guy was trying to get on the no fly list and brought all this stuff to the interview that he snuck past the TSA like a Hezbola T shirt/ bomb instructions and all kinds of other "red Flags"? But good thing cat stevens is on the no fly list the guy is a dangerously good singer song writer. He could break out his guitar in flight and start play horse in the desert with no name!!

Its really a joke PR thing and probably makes some private contractors millions.
 

Online djQUAN

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2017, 07:43:54 AM »
I'm now in Germany and my device passed through Heathrow security without issues, they didn't even stop my bag full of chargers, cables and large power banks. What they did stop to check were my other tour group members bringing in snow globes, make up kits and hotel condiments ;D
 

Offline Beamin

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2017, 07:31:03 AM »
I'm now in Germany and my device passed through Heathrow security without issues, they didn't even stop my bag full of chargers, cables and large power banks. What they did stop to check were my other tour group members bringing in snow globes, make up kits and hotel condiments ;D

Snow globes? Wouldn't the snow melt in the Philippines?
 

Online djQUAN

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2017, 09:16:18 AM »
They'll probably keep it in the freezer when we get back ;D

Touring Germany at the moment, was in Berlin, now in Frankfurt then Strasbourg and Munich in a few more days. What are decent electronics stores and the equivalent of poundland here?
 
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Offline janekm

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2017, 07:44:51 PM »
They'll probably keep it in the freezer when we get back ;D

Touring Germany at the moment, was in Berlin, now in Frankfurt then Strasbourg and Munich in a few more days. What are decent electronics stores and the equivalent of poundland here?

The equivalent of Radioshack is Conrad: http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/

They still have a small components selection you can buy from a counter in the shop. But not really exciting compared to what you can get online...

Mediamarkt is the equivalent of Best Buy.

I don't know the Poundland equivalent, but Lidl and Aldi often carry interesting gadgets at reasonable prices.

 

Offline tooki

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2017, 04:04:27 PM »
They'll probably keep it in the freezer when we get back ;D

Touring Germany at the moment, was in Berlin, now in Frankfurt then Strasbourg and Munich in a few more days. What are decent electronics stores and the equivalent of poundland here?
I don’t know anything about electronics shops in Strasbourg, but if you’re into craft cocktails, there’s a fantastic cocktail bar called Code Bar, right around the corner from the cathedral. I go there every time I’m in town. (Note to self: I’m overdue to visit Strasbourg again!)
 

Online djQUAN

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2017, 06:23:28 AM »
Thanks for the info guys, will try to look for the nearest ones and check them out when we get some free time :D
 

Offline Beamin

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2017, 11:33:55 PM »
They'll probably keep it in the freezer when we get back ;D

Touring Germany at the moment, was in Berlin, now in Frankfurt then Strasbourg and Munich in a few more days. What are decent electronics stores and the equivalent of poundland here?
Euroworld. Watch big clive much?
 

Online djQUAN

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2017, 04:32:16 AM »
Euroworld. Watch big clive much?
Just a little bit :) sent Clive a packet while I was in the UK last week and went to poundland a few times and bought some random stuff including the famous screwdriver set ;)
 

Online djQUAN

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Re: Bringing a DIY battery powered device in flight?
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2017, 02:40:41 PM »
Finally back from my vacation.

On the plane trip from Munich to Heathrow, I was seated on the window just behind the wing on an A320. Reception was pretty good I could lock on up to 11 satellites and no less than 8 even with the GPS on my lap, tray or even the empty seat beside me. Plane maxed out at 851kph so the receiver is not software limited. Distance logged was 1037.1km which included the plane taxi-ing to and from the runway.

My code limited the max displayed altitude (LCD character count) to 10km but the plane went well above that so I did not have much data on that.

On the Heathrow to Hong Kong flight, plane was an A380, I was seated a little further back from the wing on the right side and lower deck. Reception was still good until we went to cruising alt and speed but I still get some locks up to 8 satellites. Stuck the GPS receiver between the blind and window with the same result. I was still able to log a max speed of 1016kph but cruising was mostly between 800-900kph. Distance logged was 11343.5km

Hongkong to Philippines flight was not so lucky. I was seated at the exact middle of the plane so no data there. ;D

My observation still stands, the further back from the wing I get the poorer the reception is, although the exact cause is still up for debate.
 


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