Cable Box Rant Related to Power Consumption

[xrunner]

The cable company here named Spectrum (used to be Charter) is coming out with new boxes to present a "new guide customer experience" meaning the on-screen TV guide is all gussied up. They said if you don't get them before Set 11, you would not be able to see the new guide. So I went ahead and said OK come bring 'em and let's see what you got. They brought three to replace my old ones.

When they arrived I saw the design has been changed. Now the thing doesn't even display the time or the channel - there is NO display of any information at all other than the power button, a hamburger menu button for the guide (who would use this button?), and a "reset box" button. No more channel display for those that loved it. See attached pic. And since the new remotes are now RF/IR not just IR, each remote RF is paired to each box, you needn't even see the box anymore. Simply place in closet or under a shelf and say goodbye.

What really irks me is the power consumption. It's as bad or worse than the older boxes. The older ones were always very warm to the touch even when "off". By "off" I mean the consumer presentation/level of "off" by which they turn it off via the remote, but we all here realize that it isn't off at that point. It's only truly off when the thing has it's plug yanked out of the wall socket. 

So these new boxes are really bad, even when off (consumer off not plug pulled off) the area at the F connector is so hot it's nearly burning hot, it hurts to touch it. All three boxes I got are the same way. So I decided to measure the power consumption.

I used my Killawatt and found that the power consumed when "on" was 13W. But wait - the power consumed when "off" (not plug pulled off) was 12W! In fact I'd say more like 12.5W because the display was flickering between 12 and 13 W.

One really wonders why this design had to be so wasteful of power when off. One also wonders why there is even an "off" action on the remote, what of necessity is really being turned off? 

Any thoughts/comments would be well received in this thread. 

[rstofer]

It does seem wasteful but at $0.35/kWh, it would only cost about $38 per year to run 24/7.  I spill more money than that!  It just isn't a number that rises to a level where I would care.  $3/month?

I have no idea what our 2 Comcast boxes cost to operate.  Don't really care!

[rsjsouza]

The ancient SD boxes from Comcast (2006-era) ran quite cool while in standby. Years later I switched to DirecTV 720p boxes and they had a warmer standby, but nothing worth of notice. Around 2010 we switched to Verizon (now Frontier) and the 1080p + DVR box runs very hot at all times, but since it records programs while "off", that is expected. Our other box (a simple 1080p receiver) operates at a very high temperature as well (not as much as the DVR) regardless of its standby status.

Good idea measuring the consumption with the Kill-a-watt - I haven't thought of that.

[NiHaoMike]

The right answer is to get rid of overpriced cable TV altogether. I wonder how long before someone starts a conspiracy that those new cable boxes are using the extra power to mine cryptocurrency for the cable companies. They are known for charging every extra fee they can get away with...

As for the IPTV alternative, the only way I can get my Nvidia Shield TV to use 12W playing media is to scroll a lot in 3D mode, and that's only for short peaks. Average in even that power hungry mode is more like 7W. More usual 2D content would be down to about 5.6W. On but idle is about 4W and "off" (but network still connected) is about 2W.

[james_s]

One of my former jobs was at a company that made settop DVRs. One of our old devices was popular because it worked well but the power consumption was almost 100W. When we had racks of the things around the office we'd often be wearing shorts in the winter with the AC on.

I'd wager the "off" button simply turns off the display and mutes the video. It exists because some people expect it, not because it does anything really useful. Well in a sense it does, we actually had a lot of customers wanting a feature to turn off the front panel display because a lot of people have one in the bedroom and are bothered by the light. I know I would be.

[klunkerbus]

I think the boxes retain a "hot" cable connection in order to keep the channel guide info updated, accessible for downloading box updates, etc.  Yeah, I find the heat annoying and wasteful.

[xrunner]

One of my former jobs was at a company that made settop DVRs. One of our old devices was popular because it worked well but the power consumption was almost 100W. When we had racks of the things around the office we'd often be wearing shorts in the winter with the AC on.

I'd wager the "off" button simply turns off the display and mutes the video. It exists because some people expect it, not because it does anything really useful. Well in a sense it does, we actually had a lot of customers wanting a feature to turn off the front panel display because a lot of people have one in the bedroom and are bothered by the light. I know I would be.

Thanks james. It just seems so "dumbed-down", if as you say, it has a sort of pseudo-off button because people expect it. But, people also expect the clock and/or channel number too. My mother used to always tell me to make sure the cable box had the time displayed when I would go over there to fix whatever she had mucked up by changing the wrong things in the menus.

I don't get that design decision by the company who designed the box for Spectrum. I say "by the company who designed it" because unlike the previous boxes, the manufacturer is hidden on this one. There is absolutely no indication of any manufacturer anywhere on the outside, and you cannot see inside or take it apart. I suspect there are going to be a lot of customers who will not like the missing clock or channel number display. If some people want the display to be blank they could have had a menu setting to blank it.

Anyway - it is what it is ... 

[Bicurico]

Settop Boxes from providers are always on, because they need to keep the smartcard updated.

If you would fully turn off the device, then the smartcard would not be receiving EMM/ECM and thus would not get the required updates.

You can notice this if you physically disconnect the device from power for a few days: when you turn it on again, it might take up to 10 minutes to get a pictures, because this is how long it takes the operator to cycle the messages to all corresponding smartcards.

This means that the tuner needs to be always powered on and so does the CPU, which contains most receiver functionality and demodulates the transport stream and communicates with the smartcard.

Of course this sucks, but technically CATV boxes are a one way communication medium and providers need to implement strong security to keep people paying.

What I don't understand is the standby of IPTV boxes. These communicate bidirectionally with the provider and should be allowed to fully turn off. That is not always the case and I think it is due to end users expecting a quick power on.

Regards,
Vitor

[james_s]

That's not entirely true, at least in the US. Most of the boxes use CableCARDs, those do require a hit from the headend for validation but they will stay validated for quite some time when not powered.

The reason the boxes stay powered up all the time is that they're almost all embedded Linux PCs that take a few minutes to boot up, and nobody wants to wait several minutes each time they want to watch TV. That's true of the IP boxes as well.

[NiHaoMike]

What I don't understand is the standby of IPTV boxes. These communicate bidirectionally with the provider and should be allowed to fully turn off. That is not always the case and I think it is due to end users expecting a quick power on.

The Shield TV does have a full off as well as a connected standby mode. The 2W or so it uses in connected standby isn't too bad, especially considering it still works as a server in that mode.

[amyk]

The CPUs in these are probably more powerful than a typical desktop PC 10-15 years ago and also require as much cooling, but being a cable box the users would really not like to hear a fan nor do the manufacturers want to pay for huge heatsinks. Hence the burning-hot F connector---it's being used as a heatsink and the designers probably tried to use it to conduct the heat away through the cable. Imagine how hot the internals are, if the connector is already that hot...

Look up the FCC ID and you may be able to find the OEM.

Typical "modern" dumbed-down UI which I also hate too. Some older ones even had a brightness adjustment for the display...

[xrunner]

Hence the burning-hot F connector---it's being used as a heatsink and the designers probably tried to use it to conduct the heat away through the cable. Imagine how hot the internals are, if the connector is already that hot...

Ha - yea good explanation. 

[Stray Electron]

It does seem wasteful but at $0.35/kWh, it would only cost about $38 per year to run 24/7.  I spill more money than that!  It just isn't a number that rises to a level where I would care.  $3/month?

I have no idea what our 2 Comcast boxes cost to operate.  Don't really care!

   $38/year to run the box and another $38/year for the AC power to dissipate the heat that the box generates.  NO thanks. I plugged the cable, box, TV control box, Ray Ray player, the TV and all the rest of that crap into an outlet strip and it gets turned OFF when I'm not watching it.   Side benefit; the TV no longer turns on in the middle of the night when the cable jerks decide to run their updates!

[xrunner]

   $38/year to run the box and another $38/year for the AC power to dissipate the heat that the box generates.  NO thanks. I plugged the cable, box, TV control box, Ray Ray player, the TV and all the rest of that crap into an outlet strip and it gets turned OFF when I'm not watching it.   Side benefit; the TV no longer turns on in the middle of the night when the cable jerks decide to run their updates!

I just tried it - it takes about 3 minutes for the damn thing to present a picture after unplugging it. I might just start doing that to all of them. My gosh do life events have to be that instantaneous? 

[Cyberdragon]

That's not entirely true, at least in the US. Most of the boxes use CableCARDs, those do require a hit from the headend for validation but they will stay validated for quite some time when not powered.

The reason the boxes stay powered up all the time is that they're almost all embedded Linux PCs that take a few minutes to boot up, and nobody wants to wait several minutes each time they want to watch TV. That's true of the IP boxes as well.

PFFT! Hardly! Cisco boxes not only have no clock, just indicator LEDs, they will also invalidate and BSOD while you're watching them to the point they don't work again till after they're unplugged!

[james_s]

PFFT! Hardly! Cisco boxes not only have no clock, just indicator LEDs, they will also invalidate and BSOD while you're watching them to the point they don't work again till after they're unplugged!

I'm just speaking from experience here. I spent around 10 years working with this stuff, the two main standards are Cisco and Motorola, the latter now owned by Arris. Both platforms support a CableCARD which is provisioned with a system that Motorola calls a DAC and Cisco calls a DNCS. They can be unpowered for quite a long time before they require a new provisioning hit.

[tom66]

The CPUs in these are probably more powerful than a typical desktop PC 10-15 years ago and also require as much cooling, but being a cable box the users would really not like to hear a fan nor do the manufacturers want to pay for huge heatsinks. Hence the burning-hot F connector---it's being used as a heatsink and the designers probably tried to use it to conduct the heat away through the cable. Imagine how hot the internals are, if the connector is already that hot...

The CPUs in these things are dead slow.

When I was at a European manufacturer of set top boxes,  we were shipping 400MHz MIPS Broadcom chipsets in boxes that ran YouTube and Netflix apps.

To say they were slow (especially given there was no native Java bytecompiler for our MIPS CPU) is the understatement of the century.

[xrunner]

OK experts - why do they put USB ports on the front and the back? This new one has USB ports and there is no explanation of why, the installers had no clue either. It adds to the cost to put hardware on. Also on the back - an ethernet port. 

[rsjsouza]

OK experts - why do they put USB ports on the front and the back? This new one has USB ports and there is no explanation of why, the installers had no clue either. It adds to the cost to put hardware on. Also on the back - an ethernet port. 

In the Motorola DVR box I have, the manual says you can attach a USB drive for extra storage. I have never tested this, though.

[GreyWoolfe]

I don't miss the Spectrum cable boxes.  We went with Roku and PlayStation Vue at a savings of $55 USD a month and the loss of 2 channels.  We have it long enough that we've long made back the cost of the Roku boxes with the savings.  Now I just have to convince Mrs GreyWoolfe to get rid of the house phone through Spectrum and just keep the internet service.  Funny you mention upgrades, we just had to upgrade the MTA for 'new and improved' services coming.  I am just happy the download speed didn't change.  Still running a 12 ms ping and 111 Mbps download on 100 Mbps service for $64.95 a month($84.95 with phone service) with my company paying $60 of it.

[rstofer]

Now I just have to convince Mrs GreyWoolfe to get rid of the house phone through Spectrum and just keep the internet service.

We keep our landline for the 911 locator.  Yes, the other systems work, more or less, but the AT&T variant (landline) works best.

[NiHaoMike]

You could just keep an old cell phone lying around for emergencies. It doesn't even need a SIM, just has to be able to get a signal.

[GreyWoolfe]

I know we can.  We all have cell phones and I have a couple of old cell phones that the granddaughter that lives with us can use but she wants the phone so she has the phone.

[NiHaoMike]

Get one of those boxes that connects to Google Voice and gives you an analog line.

[doobedoobedo]

The reason the boxes stay powered up all the time is that they're almost all embedded Linux PCs that take a few minutes to boot up, and nobody wants to wait several minutes each time they want to watch TV. That's true of the IP boxes as well.

Hmm. I'm a little dubious about this. I use kodi as a mythtv frontend on an old (>10 years) nvidia ion nettop. It boots to kodi in under 30 seconds from an HDD running absolute bare minimum Ubuntu.