Author Topic: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half  (Read 8769 times)

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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2018, 04:49:57 am »
Quote from: CatalinaWOW link=topic=106233.msg1457797#msg1457797 redate=1521604267
  26C~72F=room temperature.

Bzzzt!

26C~79F != room temperature.  20C = 68F = room temperature.

20C is a bit chilly for Australians.
The room I'm typing this in is around 23C.
Airconds are usually set to keep the temp below 24C----26C feels a too"warm" in air conditioning.

Outdoors is quite pleasant at 26C, as there is usually a breeze.
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2018, 05:28:55 am »
Quote from: CatalinaWOW link=topic=106233.msg1457797#msg1457797 redate=1521604267
  26C~72F=room temperature.

Bzzzt!

26C~79F != room temperature.  20C = 68F = room temperature.

20C is a bit chilly for Australians.
The room I'm typing this in is around 23C.
Airconds are usually set to keep the temp below 24C----26C feels a too"warm" in air conditioning.

Outdoors is quite pleasant at 26C, as there is usually a breeze.

I was passing judgement on CatalinaWOW's arithmetic abilities rather than making a judgement on exactly what constitutes room temperature. As it is, in six months time the room temperature here probably will be 23C or more.

And now it is well past my bedtime. Nighty night!
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2018, 05:29:56 am »
-40C=-40F=colder than a witches tit.

Is that the correct possessive form in American English? Sorry, can't pass on the pun.

Hardly spell-binding wit, is it?
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2018, 11:14:43 am »
Depends on the room.

Our room temperature can go anywhere from 60-70F.
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2018, 11:47:53 am »
Well, modular construction is good especially for a design where you make essentially multiple of the same thing. Great for VLCC and cruise ships, where the majority of the vessel consists of near identical tanks for the VLCC and stateroom blocks for the cruise ship. As well you can do things out of sequence, so can do the fitment of most of the rooms before they are part of the structure, saving weeks of fitting overall, plus you can also do multiple things in parallel as well, cutting the assembly time.

As to the major items that are generally designed in as lifetime parts, like the main engines and such, those are often serviced or replaced using the "cut the big hole" method, either taking out deck blocks above the engine compartment, or making a big hole in the side and having a bespoke designed gantry crane built into the side for the job. Pretty every other thing that the designers think might fail during the design life ( which for a big ship is generally 50 years, as the vast majority of the systems on the ship are designed to be upgraded during the ship life, as technology changes) they make sure there is enough room to get them out without too much dismantling, or make the stuff easy to remove to components in situ.

I am more impressed by the fitting together, with all those parts going together so well first time, points to them making some fairly detailed and precise fitting and assembly jigs that the internal parts have to align with during manufacture to pass QC. Makes maintenance slightly easier, as you only have to go to a flange when doing work involving pipe replacement, and also will likely have isolation valves for all plumbing per section, as that allows easy testing during assembly fully made up, and leaving the valves in place is cheaper than having to remove them.
 

Offline Gromitt

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2018, 01:45:25 pm »
It's funny that some of the so called engineers, which are supposed to solve complicated calculus problems and read/write lengthy computer programs, can't gain a sense of what a foot is or what a mile is.

For a quick reference, 1ft=0.3m, 1in=2.5cm, 4mil=0.1mm, 1mi=1.6km, 1sqft=0.09sqm. Those numbers are not precise, but should do well in everyday life for a quick conversion.

Why should we? We haven't used that shit for 150 years, why should we begin using it now?
 
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Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2018, 02:12:33 pm »
  26C~72F=room temperature.

Bzzzt!

26C~79F != room temperature.  20C = 68F = room temperature.

Sorry about the foggy brain.  The 26C came from my long association of the nice round number of 300K with normal temperatures on earth.  In texts here in the US 23C is usually associated with room temperature.  My personal room temperature is 66-68F in the  winter when I am paying heating bills (often in the form of chopped wood) and more like 80F in the summer when I am paying for the chiller.  Apologies also to all of those offended by the use of units other than their preferred standard.  I am sure the US would be quicker to change if you footed the bill for replacing all of the installed base of thermostats and such, plus re-education for the ancients who grew up on the older system.

I am totally in agreement with use of metric for measurements of mass and distance and all of the units that can be derived from them.  But the temperature systems (all of them) are purely arbitrary.  A metric temperature system would allow determining the temperature rise of a metric volume, cc or m^3 of water without fudge factors.
 

Offline Tony_G

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2018, 02:18:49 pm »
I can't believe we got this far on the thread without this classic being posted - I'll solve that:

https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM

TonyG
 
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2018, 02:59:57 pm »
Best damn thing I've seen all week. Thanks for that one.
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Offline Simon

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2018, 06:35:01 pm »
It's funny that some of the so called engineers, which are supposed to solve complicated calculus problems and read/write lengthy computer programs, can't gain a sense of what a foot is or what a mile is.

For a quick reference, 1ft=0.3m, 1in=2.5cm, 4mil=0.1mm, 1mi=1.6km, 1sqft=0.09sqm. Those numbers are not precise, but should do well in everyday life for a quick conversion.

Why should we? We haven't used that shit for 150 years, why should we begin using it now?

Can we drop it now ?
 

Offline grifftech

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2018, 10:09:04 pm »
I dont need to know them because 97% of all Country in the World use the Metric System just 3 3rd World Country refuse to use it.
Even the NASA use it... :clap:

THE UNITES STATES IS NOT A 3rd WORLD COUNTRY :box: But yes, metric is better.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2018, 10:35:02 pm »
 ;D it is. The Social Service is worse than in Albania.
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Offline KjeltTopic starter

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2018, 10:43:21 pm »
And over 700 billion needed  on backwards infrastructure repairs
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2018, 10:54:18 pm »
sure thats why all Syrian, African,... Migrants take a Boat and drive to the US Shore instead of Europe.  :palm:
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2018, 12:26:25 am »
You know what I've just realized?

This is actually the land titanic. Split in half on land, the only difference is that nobody died, and it's going to sail again (unless the movie "Raise the Titanic" is to believed)
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Offline Simon

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2018, 07:53:53 am »
can we stay off the politics please.
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2018, 08:38:41 am »
It always impressed me that over much of the world and most of the submarine designs, when a major piece of machinery needs to be replaced they just cut a big whopping hole in the side, pull the old gear out and slide the replacement in.  They weld the hole back up and then back below the waves.  Lots of people depending for their lives on the welders and weld inspectors.  Now the same thing applies to wealthy tourists.

Ships too! I was working on a navy ship refurbishment, and to get the generators out to recondition them, they just cut a big hole down through the decks to the engine room. Then welded it all back afterwards.

Slight goof - they'd assumed the junction boxes sticking out the sides of the generators, where all the field coil cables terminated, could be removed. They cut the deck holes on that assumption. Then it was discovered (by me when I had the job of removing external cables from those junction boxes) that the internal wiring (big fat stuff) coming out from from the coils could not be flexed because all the insulation was rigid.
So they cut extra ear-shaped bits out of the decks.

Dunno if its just me, the moment I saw this, the 1st thing pop out in my mind is the various cables and connectors for connecting both cut ends.  :-/O
One USB cable should do it.

Btw:
 https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/images/stories/wire/2018/mar/SSpir_20180310_1247_8MP_JH5.jpg
Nice clean big photo of the ship cut. For all your photoshop needs.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 08:43:40 am by TerraHertz »
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Offline Galenbo

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2018, 10:23:20 am »
In 2004 we upgraded two Swedish submarines by slicing like this and inserting a new ready built section containing a Stirling engine based propulsion system.
I visited a large company that cut submarines in half, to insert a nuclear power plant.
Amazed too about all the double-wall piping, incredible how they managed to construct t-joints, connectors and valves this way.
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Online Zero999

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2018, 10:44:47 am »
  26C~72F=room temperature.

Bzzzt!

26C~79F != room temperature.  20C = 68F = room temperature.

Sorry about the foggy brain.  The 26C came from my long association of the nice round number of 300K with normal temperatures on earth.  In texts here in the US 23C is usually associated with room temperature.  My personal room temperature is 66-68F in the  winter when I am paying heating bills (often in the form of chopped wood) and more like 80F in the summer when I am paying for the chiller.  Apologies also to all of those offended by the use of units other than their preferred standard.  I am sure the US would be quicker to change if you footed the bill for replacing all of the installed base of thermostats and such, plus re-education for the ancients who grew up on the older system.

I am totally in agreement with use of metric for measurements of mass and distance and all of the units that can be derived from them.  But the temperature systems (all of them) are purely arbitrary.  A metric temperature system would allow determining the temperature rise of a metric volume, cc or m^3 of water without fudge factors.
I agree, even though I often resort to using my calculator to convert oF to oC, I think both systems are equally bad or as good as one another. They both have negative numbers, which is not necessary. In an ideal world we should all use Kelvin or Rankine, but that won't happen.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2018, 11:16:44 am »
  26C~72F=room temperature.

Bzzzt!

26C~79F != room temperature.  20C = 68F = room temperature.

Sorry about the foggy brain.  The 26C came from my long association of the nice round number of 300K with normal temperatures on earth.  In texts here in the US 23C is usually associated with room temperature.  My personal room temperature is 66-68F in the  winter when I am paying heating bills (often in the form of chopped wood) and more like 80F in the summer when I am paying for the chiller.  Apologies also to all of those offended by the use of units other than their preferred standard.  I am sure the US would be quicker to change if you footed the bill for replacing all of the installed base of thermostats and such, plus re-education for the ancients who grew up on the older system.

I am totally in agreement with use of metric for measurements of mass and distance and all of the units that can be derived from them.  But the temperature systems (all of them) are purely arbitrary.  A metric temperature system would allow determining the temperature rise of a metric volume, cc or m^3 of water without fudge factors.
I agree, even though I often resort to using my calculator to convert oF to oC, I think both systems are equally bad or as good as one another. They both have negative numbers, which is not necessary. In an ideal world we should all use Kelvin or Rankine, but that won't happen.

*F to *C conversion has no thumb rule, indeed, but there are reasons. Some of them are explained in this documentary about the history of cold, one of the finest story about humans understanding temperature, and discovering the laws of thermodynamic:

« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 11:18:47 am by RoGeorge »
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2018, 11:44:28 am »
The RAF has been cutting C130 in half and adding an extra bit for many years now or rather Marshalls engineering in Cambridge has for the RAF.

 http://www.armedforces.co.uk/raf/listings/l0029.html

I have done the same to many trucks over the years but that is a very simple job in comparison to the ship, problem with ships is getting a saw big enough.
 

Offline Lord of nothing

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2018, 12:22:52 pm »
Do you know does the get sold to the Austrian Airforce?
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2018, 02:46:12 pm »
So they cut extra ear-shaped bits out of the decks.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD

Perchance did they have an ex-policeman in charge of this? (Anyone who's sent any time in a police station (outside of the cells) will know of whom I speak. There's one in every nick.]
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Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2018, 01:22:42 pm »
So they cut extra ear-shaped bits out of the decks.

 :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD

Perchance did they have an ex-policeman in charge of this? (Anyone who's sent any time in a police station (outside of the cells) will know of whom I speak. There's one in every nick.]

No. Really, ship maintenance is a chaos. Some more stories. It's a while ago now, so should be OK.

Photo below is what happens when... one of the big diesel engines of a warship is serviced by unskilled naval personnel. After a major engine refit, someone reconnecting lubricating oil feed lines forgot to remove a cotton plug from the end of a line. Ship set off on deployment. They noticed some overheating in one section of the engine, did nothing. Under full power, a piston seized in the cylinder liner. The connecting rod ripped the gudgeon pin (seen in pic) out the bottom of the piston. Flailed around in the crank case, taking divots out of the steel (visible in pic.) Gudgeon pin came loose, added to the clanging. Until it got jammed between a crankshaft lobe and something solid - where it is still solidly wedged in the pic. They'd taken out the liner, piston, and connecting rod, could not get the gudgeon pin out.  Wish I'd had a ruler for scale. You don't get a sense for how big that is.
Whole engine had to come out AGAIN and be refurbished AGAIN.
Photo was taken with permission.

One time I was asked to remove all the thermocouple sensors from a main propulsion gearbox, so they could be sent off for calibration. About 12 of them. There were no numbers on them, or the mount points, no plans that I was told of. So how to ensure each one went back in the right spot?
I numbered them all, drew a sketch of the gearbox (it's about the size of a VW beetle) with all thermocouple mount points marked and numbered.
My boss the electrical works supervisor, said the cal lab were amazed. Never seen anything like it. Usually just got a box of random unmarked sensors to check.

A big ship's loading crane, with a strain gauge in the pin through the boom end pulley. The lift weight meter and overload safety circuit in the crane cabin was orphaned - manufacturer gone, no schematics available. And the card had gone faulty. Guess who had to reverse engineer the circuit, work out what was wrong, fix it, reinstall, then.... recalibrate it.
You know how they calibrate a ship's crane strain gauge?
A giant water balloon, and a known accurate strain gauge with radio send. Put that on the hook, hang the water balloon from it, Swing crane to ship's centerline, fill bag...  But the cabin gauge circuit has span and offset adjustments. So it's unavoidably an iterative process. Fill the bag, empty it... repeat.
And if they swing the crane to the side while full (to empty it) the whole ship lists about 20 degrees.
I think every sailor on the ship hated me that day.
Also I got a black mark with my employer (ship's shore maintenance co) for giving the circuit to the ship's tech, rather than keeping it with the shore maintenance co. Sigh.

Couple of the ships had a special chair for the captain on the bridge. They were recycled business class airline seats. Very plush, and with every imaginable motorized adjustment. Except... all that active seat electronics expected to be talked to by the plane computers. Seat arm controls --> plane computer --> seat motors. Or maybe it just needed to be told it was OK to move, I don't know. But there wasn't even any connection to the socket in the base of the seat. So it was just dead, set in one position.
Discussing with the ship's tech guy, I offered to see if I could hack up a box to make the seat electronics happy and working. To assist, could he ask the airline if they had any tech info on the seat interface & protocol? He tried inquiring. Guess what happened?
It sent the ship's intelligence/security officers into a frenzy. WHY was he asking about that? Who was he talking to about it? Why? He was told to drop any thoughts of such a project.

Plenty more stories...

Working on the ships was a lot of fun, for well over a year. I'd started out employed by a refit contractor (Forgacs) then got contracted to do various 'no one else would do it' jobs. Which I was doing for way under the rate any company would have wanted, because I liked it so much. Then they decided they'd get me a proper pass to the base. So did a formal security check. Ha ha, oops. They don't tell you, but I gather I failed. Something to do with associations and stuff I suppose.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 01:24:37 pm by TerraHertz »
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Offline JohnMc

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Re: Cruise ship extension: just cut it in half
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2018, 07:00:42 am »
The only people who complain about having to use Imperial units are those who don't know how to use them.
I dont need to know them because 97% of all Country in the World use the Metric System just 3 3rd World Country refuse to use it.
Even the NASA use it... :clap:

Hate to burst your bubble but complete usage of the metric system is almost unheard of. I can almost positively guaranty that something you use in your everyday life has a inch system part in it somewhere.  NPT and BSP are still the most widely used type of pipe thread as a example.

Also metric has its failings. The thread system has some good and some bad. Wire size in mm/sq why not just give me the dia. that way I can just measure it.   

Oh and NASA. As someone pointed out in a metric fanboy thread somewhere. The engineers  may have designed it in metric but it was almost certainty built in inch.
 


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