Digital drivers licences are now a thing in Australia

[Halcyon]

The state of New South Wales in Australia has been trialling digital driving licences via a smart phone application for about 6 months now in a limited area, which is to be extended to the rest of the state shortly.

I'm in two minds about this... while the thought of a carrying around a plastic card in your wallet seems to be a little archaic, it's simple, achieves the intended purpose and is difficult to counterfeit. How long before some 16 year old develops an application which looks and behaves the same the authentic application on the surface, at least enough to buy a drink in a pub or allow entry to clubs (a fake application won't fly with Police as they verify the details through their own database).

News piece here: http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/nsw-drivers-will-be-first-in-australia-to-start-using-a-digital-licence/news-story/5c76d21f2dc24bc0c127055e0411f523

[VK3DRB]

In Victoria, if you stopped your car with the engine running and the cop asked for your license and you touched your mobile phone with your fingers, he could fine you $476 for using a mobile phone whilst "driving". The law will need to change to allow a driver to touch his mobile phone to show the hologram on request, or order the engine to be shut off first (ie: parked). To cops here are extremely strict on drivers using mobile phones whilst driving, but they can get it badly wrong. A friend was fined $476 for using a handheld mic on a 2-way radio (which is legal). The cop thought it was a mobile phone. Two court appearances already, with no cop turning up. Third court appearance this month. My friend will fight on, but he won't any justice out of this - they will make sure he will lose financially even if he wins.

[Halcyon]

In Victoria, if you stopped your car with the engine running and the cop asked for your license and you touched your mobile phone with your fingers, he could fine you $476 for using a mobile phone whilst "driving". The law will need to change to allow a driver to touch his mobile phone to show the hologram on request, or order the engine to be shut off first (ie: parked).

The road rules are pretty standard across the country. The definition of "driving" isn't "having the engine running". Driving means "to be in control of [propulsion/steering/braking etc...]". If you're stopped on the side of the road, with the park brake applied and the gear in park/neutral, you aren't "in control of" a vehicle, therefore you are not "driving". There is no requirement under Australian law to turn off the engine to a vehicle before you're not considered to be "driving".

There are also exceptions to Road Rules if you're been given a lawful or reasonable direction by a Police officer, such as Rule 304:

(1) "A person must obey any reasonable direction for the safe and efficient regulation of traffic given to the person by a police officer or authorised person, whether or not the person may contravene another provision of these Rules by obeying the direction." and

(2) "It is a defence to the prosecution of a person for an offence against a provision of these Rules if, at the time of the offence, the person was obeying a direction given to the person under subrule (1)."

Don't believe what you see/read on TV or on internet forums without reading the rules for yourself.

[Mr. Scram]

In Victoria, if you stopped your car with the engine running and the cop asked for your license and you touched your mobile phone with your fingers, he could fine you $476 for using a mobile phone whilst "driving". The law will need to change to allow a driver to touch his mobile phone to show the hologram on request, or order the engine to be shut off first (ie: parked). To cops here are extremely strict on drivers using mobile phones whilst driving, but they can get it badly wrong. A friend was fined $476 for using a handheld mic on a 2-way radio (which is legal). The cop thought it was a mobile phone. Two court appearances already, with no cop turning up. Third court appearance this month. My friend will fight on, but he won't any justice out of this - they will make sure he will lose financially even if he wins.

It's fairly unjust that a no show of the police officer doesn't result in an automatic dismissal of the charges.

That being said, we're rapidly making mobile phone a single point of failure and I don't feel that's a very good idea. No matter how secure they claim the application is.

[tszaboo]

This is great for driving abroad. </sarcasm>

[IanMacdonald]

Problems I see with this are:

It means showing your phone to police, which might contain all kinds of personal information.

Phones get hacked.

[DerekG]

it's simple, achieves the intended purpose and is difficult to counterfeit. How long before some 16 year old develops an application which looks and behaves the same the authentic application on the surface, at least enough to buy a drink in a pub or allow entry to clubs (a fake application won't fly with Police as they verify the details through their own database).

When you enter a nightclub after the alloted time (often 10pm) you must show your drivers license. The license number (& your associated birth date) are actually checked by the machine on entry via the registration department's database.

[Synthtech]

What could possibly go wrong?

[Synthtech]

The battery in my drivers licence is flat.

[Ampera]

This is something I don't get and don't agree with.

Name one thing that is wrong with a traditional driver's license that a phone could do better?

Operate without power? Be easier to get? Be less likely to be stolen or forgotten? How about operate without a network connection?

I find that the argument, because it's archaic is, no offense, a crock of old shit. As if having a piece of plastic, coated, laminated paper is such an unbearably old idea we need to replace it.

I'd rather just keep my plastic ID on me, it's not running out of juice any time soon.

[joseph nicholas]

If your stopped in the good old USA and you reach for your phone the cops shoot you.  Problem solved.

[Ampera]

If your stopped in the good old USA and you reach for your phone the cops shoot you.  Problem solved.

No, that's not true, you're doing it wrong. All you need to do is start being white, and the cops don't care what you do.

[Monkeh]

Problems I see with this are:

It means showing your phone to police, which might contain all kinds of personal information.

Why do you think they're doing it? "We need to see your ID" *unlocks phone* "Thank you very much, we'll just take this for evidence.."

[VK3DRB]

If your stopped in the good old USA and you reach for your phone the cops shoot you.  Problem solved.

No, that's not true, you're doing it wrong. All you need to do is start being white, and the cops don't care what you do.

Colour of skin is no guarantee. A cop in the Minneapolis police force shot dead a white Australian woman for no reason. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Justine_Damond.

[rdl]

At the moment, it's optional to use the phone. You still get a physical card. Of course, if the phone version proves to be cheaper then I can see that changing.

[Synthtech]

It sounds like typical government logic.  They don’t want people using cell phones in cars so they implement legislation ensuring that every driver in the country has to own a cell phone and carry it in their car at all times when driving. 

[LaserSteve]

Willingly handing your phone to a cop in the USA without her/him signing some sort of agreement
Probably means you just consented to a search of the phone. Ask folks in Michigan who were asked for their phone on a "good will" basis by the Michigan state police. Who had a box the promptly scanned the phone for social connections.

Steve

[Mr. Scram]

Willingly handing your phone to a cop in the USA without her/him signing some sort of agreement
Probably means you just consented to a search of the phone. Ask folks in Michigan who were asked for their phone on a "good will" basis by the Michigan state police. Who had a box the promptly scanned the phone for social connections.

Steve

This video comes to mind.

https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

[John B]

This is something I don't get and don't agree with.

Name one thing that is wrong with a traditional driver's license that a phone could do better?

Well, the phone can connect a fundamental identifying piece of information with GPS data and an internet and phone connection....oh wait that's not really good for us.

This app requires the following permissions:

• Access GPS data
• Access to SMS messages
• Access to contacts
• This app may use data

[Brumby]

Hmmm ... Access to GPS data - in real time.  How to turn your own device into a speed trap, which would have the capability of issuing you with an infringement notice on the spot - without you having to even slow down.


You know ... there is one way to absolutely circumvent any "revenue raising" of this sort and it can get summed up in two words...

... Anybody want to give it a shot?

[Mr. Scram]

Hmmm ... Access to GPS data - in real time.  How to turn your own device into a speed trap, which would have the capability of issuing you with an infringement notice on the spot - without you having to even slow down.


You know ... there is one way to absolutely circumvent any "revenue raising" of this sort and it can get summed up in two words...

... Anybody want to give it a shot?

Get rich.
Shoot yourself.
Stop driving.
Order Uber.
Stay home.
Join force.

Anything to your liking?

[Brumby]

A good effort - but didn't quite hit the target I had in mind.

[Ampera]

Shut up.

[Halcyon]

OK, we're getting a little beyond the scope of the original topic. Did some of you leave your foil hats at home or something? Your phones will not be turned into some kind of speed measuring device, just like your GPS cannot be used as a defence for speeding.

[Ampera]

Being suspicious of governments is like being suspicious that your dog will piss on the rug.

It's likely to not happen, but also likely to happen. Governments are clouds of chaos, held together only by that chaos.

Personally, I see absolutely no benefit. There was nothing EVER wrong with plastic licenses, and having to complicate pull overs for all involved I see to be a massive downside. It's going to be complicated, it's going to break, it's going to require additional money to secure it and ensure it can't be abused, and at the end of the day, it doesn't help anybody. This only leaves some of us with suspicion that the government wants to do something here, like they want to do with throwing back doors into things like WhatsApp.