Does this sound acceptable for an apple product?

[Jeroen3]

I don't get the fuss.

All standard AC-DC power supplies have this so called "failure" when you don't use them on an earthed socket.
And since most of the world does not have earthed sockets, they've put effort in making it safe.

If you're not happy with it, buy a the highest grade medical AC-DC supply.

[Codebird]

Apple's rubber-ish coating only disintegrates if you have a particularly acidic sebum.

Obviously the customers are just sweating in the wrong way.

All standard AC-DC power supplies have this so called "failure" when you don't use them on an earthed socket.

Perhaps it is only noticed on Apple hardware because their laptops have a fully exposed metal body, everyone else is either plastic or insulator-coated metal.

[rrinker]

 Other laptops, tablet, and phones have exposed metal chassis - especially the PC laptops that try to get as thin as the various Macbook models - the PC ones even have - gasp! - soldered-in components just like Apple. And - gasp! - cost just as much as a comparable Macbook.

 I always laugh at this. OMG, Macbooks cost $1500+! I can get a Window laptop for $500! Sure you can, but it's 3x as thick and twice as heavy. You CAN get a Windows laptop that is the same size and weight as a Macbook, but they ALSO cost $1500+. ANd they do the same thing, like solder in the RAM so no expansion after purchase. No, I do not own a Macbook.

[rsjsouza]

Hey guys, you'll *ALL* measure a bit under half the AC line voltage from chassis to ground on the output of an ungrounded SMPSU that has a non-polarised plug if you use a 10Meg input true-RMS DMM, no matter what make it is, UNLESS it uses a transformer with an inter-winding screen and no class Y cap from Pri to Sec.  Its inherent in the design of a class Y cap connected to one DC terminal of a bridge rectifier fed by an AC supply with a grounded neutral.

The more interesting parameter to measure is the leakage current, so, after checking the chassis isn't actually shorted to the primary side of the PSU (to save DMM fuses!), put your DMM on AC mA and measure it.   That can be checked against the IEC60950 standard and directly related to the value of the Class Y pri-sec cap used.

I measure 35µA_AC/1.7µA_DC.

I read somewhere that non-stationary information technology equipment (ITE) that falls into 60950 is required to have less than 3.5mA of touch current on the enclosure. Can't find the reference, though.

[tooki]

I see this OP as just another baseless attack on Apple.

I'm no PSU expert, far from it, but I've seen enough videos from Dave and Bigclive to know that this is just how SMPSs work. (They, and others, have also consistently reported that Apple's power supplies are of top quality. That agrees with my experience, anecdotal as it may be.)

[Halcyon]

I see this OP as just another baseless attack on Apple.

I don't think so. I think the question was fair.

I'm not loyal to any particular brand or operating system, I choose what works well for me. But lately (in the past 10 years or so), Apple are lagging behind. It's been a long time since their products were innovative or anything that impresses me. I'll admit they do look good (for the most part) but that's about it.

Not saying they use cheap crap from China, not at all, infact their build quality and components are quite good, it's their design which at the same time is good to look at, is their downfall as well. Flimsy cabling and stress relief which starts to split after moderate use comes to mind.

With respect to the original point, I have used Macbooks before which felt "fuzzy" to the touch. It's not a desirable quality.

[tooki]

Flimsy cabling and stress relief which starts to split after moderate use comes to mind.

With respect to the original point, I have used Macbooks before which felt "fuzzy" to the touch. It's not a desirable quality.

I will grant you the inflexible wire; this problem began when Apple switched to environmentally-friendly PVC-free cable. The insulation seems far less pliable.

As for the tingly thing… no, it's not desirable as such, but it's how SMPSs work if you don't ground them. It's not a new problem, by the way, I first noticed it on my 2003 PowerBook G4 (the first model I had with exposed metal).

[Halcyon]

As for the tingly thing… no, it's not desirable as such, but it's how SMPSs work if you don't ground them. It's not a new problem, by the way, I first noticed it on my 2003 PowerBook G4 (the first model I had with exposed metal).

I acknowledge that and that's fine... but why don't Apple just ground all their power supplies to alleviate that problem?

[John B]

Ill just make my own short plug from a chinese copy 3 prong plug, cut the cord and put another AU plug on it.

[Jeroen3]

As for the tingly thing… no, it's not desirable as such, but it's how SMPSs work if you don't ground them. It's not a new problem, by the way, I first noticed it on my 2003 PowerBook G4 (the first model I had with exposed metal).

I acknowledge that and that's fine... but why don't Apple just ground all their power supplies to alleviate that problem?

Because not everyone has grounded sockets. Do you also want Apple proprietary mains sockets?
"New iSocket, features a chip to only supply power to certified devices."

[Elf]

Because not everyone has grounded sockets. Do you also want Apple proprietary mains sockets?

Well, surely that's a country by country problem though. I would understand if they released adapters like that in countries where that was widespread, but I haven't seen an ungrounded two prong socket in the US or Canada for decades. However, they still seem to quite happily release ungrounded flip-out adapters here.

I'm pretty sure this has more to do with visual aesthetics than any motivation to accommodate people whose electrical installations haven't been touched since the 1965 NEC went into effect.

[rsjsouza]

As for the tingly thing… no, it's not desirable as such, but it's how SMPSs work if you don't ground them. It's not a new problem, by the way, I first noticed it on my 2003 PowerBook G4 (the first model I had with exposed metal).

I acknowledge that and that's fine... but why don't Apple just ground all their power supplies to alleviate that problem?

Because not everyone has grounded sockets. Do you also want Apple proprietary mains sockets?
"New iSocket, features a chip to only supply power to certified devices."

One thing has nothing to do with the other. Ungrounded sockets are a problem of the user's electrical installation - however, when they provide the option on their product and it causes some side effects, they automatically expose themselves for criticism.
I owned several other products that gave tingling sensations on their chassis and criticized them all. It is not exclusive to Apple.

[Halcyon]

Because not everyone has grounded sockets. Do you also want Apple proprietary mains sockets?

And not every country has the same socket either. It's not hard to produce grounded plugs for those countries where grounding is standard or even mandatory. Every other manufacturer seems to be able to work it out.

[John B]

Because not everyone has grounded sockets. Do you also want Apple proprietary mains sockets?
"New iSocket, features a chip to only supply power to certified devices."

Really?

https://www.apple.com/support/ac-wallplug-adapter/

Apple makes a detachable part to a universal charging design. I quite like that idea. Yet for some reason it's a big ask to make this simple moulded plastic part a 3 prong design - or even offer both?

The funny part is that there's tons of copies made in china - but they only copy the 2 prong design. A slight redesign could mean an industrious person could be filling a gap that even apple isn't filling.

[tooki]

Simple: this is a small problem that doesn't bother a lot of people, and the two prong plug is more compact. You get the choice of small and ungrounded or large and grounded, and both options are in the box.

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill... 

[rsjsouza]

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill... 

I agree with you, especially after the tone of your previous post:

I see this OP as just another baseless attack on Apple.

As Halcyon said before, the question was fair and some of us (including the OP) were simply discussing some impressions and technical aspects.