Ebay auction mechanics

[SAGOLSEN]

OK I've got a question about ebay auction end times.  Looking at bid histories I sometimes see bids with posting dates after the nominal end of the auction (or maybe it's the end of the listing, although I don't see anyone making that distinction consistently).

During an auction, on the listing page there's the Mickey Mouse countdown timer, which in my experience is 19 seconds slower than www.nist.time.gov .  Meaning it seems to allow an extra 18 or 19 seconds after the auction is supposedly over.  So if a listing states it ends at 8PM, the Mickey Mouse timer reaches 0 at 8:19PM.  But maybe the Mickey Mouse timer is the most accurate indication from Ebay as to the true estimated wall clock time that the auction will end.  That's my question.

Ebay's own description of its auction workings is not worth reading, and the community also seems to be confused about the details.

I would assume it's best to get a bid in before the actual stated wall clock end time.  I honestly don't understand the semantics of the Mickey Mouse timer.

Any insightful commentary on the mechanics of the auction ending, would be welcome.  I don't need opinions on sniping or exhortations to "just try it".  Thanks.

P.S. Ebay official time matches nist.time.gov to the second.  Only the Mickey Mouse timer is off.

[mikeselectricstuff]

It's in Ebay's interest to get as many bids as possible - it's plausible that they extend end times if there are a lot of snipers.
Could also just be delays between servers etc.

[station240]

Mickey Mouse countdown timer
Mickey Mouse timer...
Mickey Mouse timer...
Mickey Mouse timer....
Mickey Mouse timer.

is you're problem with Mickey Mouse and how does that related to Ebay ?

If you want a serious answer, don't ask the question in a way that can only be considered a joke.

[timb]

I've actually tested this with two separate Goofy Accounts, on two individual Mini Mouse Computers running on two separate Donald Duck DSL connections (in the same house, err, steamboat) and the results were interesting.

Once the auction reaches 5 minutes, you start to see a realtime countdown on the Mickey Mouse Clocks. There was about a 6 second time difference between the countdown showing on one Mini Mouse computer and the other. Though, the slower one had caught up to merely a 2 second delay at the 60 second mark, which is reasonable.

You'll notice that once the time remaining hits 60 seconds, there's some AJAX magic happening and the page is pulling realtime status updates every second. At that point it should be accurate.

[dexters_lab]

AFAIK Ebay has never synced it's time to any official body, it's always been described as 'Ebay Time' so i would never expect it to be in time with UTC

from my experience i think what is happening is there is a mechanism where if there is a flood of bids at the last moment before auction ends they are only processed after the auction ending time which is why some bids come in and show up afterwards with bid times after the end of the auction

least thats my best guess

i have always used sniping since i started on ebay 10+ years ago, but i do also have luck with getting a better deals using psychological tactics against other bidders as most often dont understand how ebay works at a basic level

[dexters_lab]

You cannot know how high any other bidder will go or if they have already set a higher maximum bid than you are prepared to pay. After 10 years I would have hoped you'd have realised sniping is a huge waste of time. And if you are even slightly undisciplined in sticking to your maximum it is a good way to exceed your limit in the heat of the moment.

what i do works well for me, i am not going to go into the detail of it all to explain it

[sleemanj]

OP would hate it here in NZ, trademe (nz ebay equiv) auto-extends an auction by 2 minutes every time there is a bid in the final 2 minutes, the end time of an auction is therefore never hard-and-fast :-)

[tooki]

Yep, the Swiss local eBay, Ricardo.ch, does the same thing. Super annoying in a way.

[HighVoltage]

AFAIK Ebay has never synced it's time to any official body, it's always been described as 'Ebay Time' so i would never expect it to be in time with UTC

Yes, that is why most sniper programs are synchronizing with ebay time of the ebay that you are bidding on.
I have even seen differences of time between different EU ebay domains.

To go around this problem, I either bid high or use a sniper.

[Macbeth]

You could always purchase this classic to keep synched to Mickey Mouse time...

eBay auction: #281774646586

[Brumby]

You cannot know how high any other bidder will go or if they have already set a higher maximum bid than you are prepared to pay. After 10 years I would have hoped you'd have realised sniping is a huge waste of time. And if you are even slightly undisciplined in sticking to your maximum it is a good way to exceed your limit in the heat of the moment.

what i do works well for me, i am not going to go into the detail of it all to explain it

Ditto.

.... but if you snipe and the clock runs out on you before you have entered a highest bid then you will lose even though you were willing to bid higher. Sniping only seems to be a means to get someone else to do that first. I understand wanting to win AND sweeten the deal with a lower price won in a sniping contest. But at the end of the auction you have to have the highest bid.

I think you are missing a couple of fundamental truths about sniping - ones that a great many people do not properly understand.

The real skill in bidding at auction is to set a realistic price and then sticking to it.

... and sniping is a perfect example of doing just that.



As for the OP's original question - I can't say I've ever noticed that ever happening.

[wraper]

The real skill in bidding at auction is to set a realistic price and then sticking to it.

... and sniping is a perfect example of doing just that.

Exactly, you just set the max price you are going to pay and forget. Therefore you avoid the bid wars which happen because many people just have not decided the maximum which they are ready pay for a particular item, and then bid more if someone overbid their previous maximum bid.

[rrinker]

I've actually tested this with two separate Goofy Accounts, on two individual Mini Mouse Computers running on two separate Donald Duck DSL connections (in the same house, err, steamboat) and the results were interesting.

Once the auction reaches 5 minutes, you start to see a realtime countdown on the Mickey Mouse Clocks. There was about a 6 second time difference between the countdown showing on one Mini Mouse computer and the other. Though, the slower one had caught up to merely a 2 second delay at the 60 second mark, which is reasonable.

You'll notice that once the time remaining hits 60 seconds, there's some AJAX magic happening and the page is pulling realtime status updates every second. At that point it should be accurate.

 Walt Disney Co. attorneys will be in touch shortly....

[Cubdriver]

You cannot know how high any other bidder will go or if they have already set a higher maximum bid than you are prepared to pay. After 10 years I would have hoped you'd have realised sniping is a huge waste of time. And if you are even slightly undisciplined in sticking to your maximum it is a good way to exceed your limit in the heat of the moment.

what i do works well for me, i am not going to go into the detail of it all to explain it

A lot of people simply don't understand sniping.   

-Pat

ETA: And I'm ok with that.   

[timb]

You cannot know how high any other bidder will go or if they have already set a higher maximum bid than you are prepared to pay. After 10 years I would have hoped you'd have realised sniping is a huge waste of time. And if you are even slightly undisciplined in sticking to your maximum it is a good way to exceed your limit in the heat of the moment.

what i do works well for me, i am not going to go into the detail of it all to explain it

A lot of people simply don't understand sniping.   

-Pat

ETA: And I'm ok with that.   

Same here!

I remember in the early days of eBay, when they would actually show the full usernames of other bidders in the bid history list, people would get *so* enraged at you for sniping them that they'd send you messages, cussing you out.

I still remember the time someone sent me a really nasty message, calling me (among other things) a "sniping bitch" which I subsequently reported to eBay who suspended his account for 60 days. The guy then used a second account to bid on an item I had for sale just so he could get my phone number. (Remember when eBay provided your full contact details?) The guy left me dozens of threatening voicemails, which I also reported to eBay, who ended up perma banning all of the guys accounts. Finally, his elderly *mother* (whom he lived with) ended up calling me and apologizing for him. Apparently her account was banned as well.

The whole thing was just bizarre. All because I sniped a dude who had some mental problems.

I kind of miss the early days of eBay. It was like the Wild West.

[Richard Crowley]

When you consider the kind of infrastructure it takes to operate Ebay, a discrepancy of 19 seconds seems inconsequential and not worth losing any sleep over.  Just to operate the forum you are reading right now takes dozens of servers distributed all over the planet. As well as 2 or three different companies that manage the servers and infrastructure.  Now, if it were 19 minutes, I would question if there were something wrong. But most people's clocks, computers, and watches probably aren't accurate to 19 seconds anyway.

[nctnico]

Bid your maximum bid at the most you are willing to pay.  Take up clay pigeon shooting if you are seeking a sporting contest.

Yes, but do that in the last 5 seconds of the auction to prevent others from getting bidding fever and bidding more than the item is worth. I very much prefer buy-it-now items with the 'make offer' feature.

Edit: typos

[Richard Crowley]

I buy lots of things on Ebay, but I haven't bid on an auction in years.  Given all the snipers and the assorted people who don't know the actual value of things, it just isn't worth the effort to play that sucker's game.

[Macbeth]

You see, it works guys. Us snipers scare off the hoi-polloi so they stop bidding altogether 

[SAGOLSEN]

There's clearly some server time needed to process and resolve the bids, but I'm left wondering whether ebay is accepting bids a few seconds after the listing ends.  It's odd to show bids in the bid history with time stamps that suggest they were received after the nominal cutoff.

I didn't notice anyone saying whether they used the timer versus their computer's clock.  But judging from their responses some people may be using the countdown timer without knowing its true name...

[pelud]

I would have to agree about the sniping. 

The main benefit of it is that you don't reveal your hand - otherwise you can get into bidding wars.  I know myself well enough that if I bid, I will always try to win it, even if it doesn't make sense.  Sniping ensures that you don't overpay.

Also, just the fact that somebody has put a bid on something makes others want it.  I've seen times when some old piece of junk power supply or VTVM gets relisted a few times with nobody bidding on it, and as soon as one person does 2 or 3 others join in.

Sometimes I suspect that the other contestants are shill bidders from the seller, as often you will get a "second chance" offering or the item gets relisted right away after it's done.

[Fred27]

I agree that you should always bid what you would really pay. Bidding late does stop those annoying people who go "oh well, maybe another £10" from bumping up what you end up paying. All you need for that is to bid in the last 30 seconds or so. No advanced sniping needed. I'll only do it if I'm not busy at the time.

At least eBay have clamped down on the shill bidding / second chance offers. The best I ever heard was on some wakeskate shoes someone was selling on behalf of her son. When she accidentally outbid me herself it was "I've got twins. Do you want the other pair" 

[SAGOLSEN]

Sometimes I suspect that the other contestants are shill bidders from the seller, as often you will get a "second chance" offering or the item gets relisted right away after it's done.

Because of bid retractions anyone can learn your proxy bid value.  Besides shilling there's an opportunity for griefers.  The first auction I was in, one user bidded right up to my proxy, twice.  That user's history showed 18 bid retractions in the last 6 months.

[jolshefsky]

Mickey Mouse countdown timer
Mickey Mouse timer...
Mickey Mouse timer...
Mickey Mouse timer....
Mickey Mouse timer.

is you're problem with Mickey Mouse and how does that related to Ebay ?

If you want a serious answer, don't ask the question in a way that can only be considered a joke.

For what it's worth, "Mickey Mouse" is synonymous with "shoddy" or "poor quality". According to the English Wictionary, "the adjective sense developed during the Second World War, after a large quantity of low quality counterfeit Mickey Mouse watches flooded the UK."

[SAGOLSEN]

For what it's worth, "Mickey Mouse" is synonymous with "shoddy" or "poor quality". According to the English Wictionary, "the adjective sense developed during the Second World War, after a large quantity of low quality counterfeit Mickey Mouse watches flooded the UK."

That's how I was using the term but I was unaware of the origin, that's interesting.  Back in the 80s a colleague would routinely use "Mickey Mouse" to describe or comment on the not-so-sophisticated solution, and then describe the correct solution.  Back then there were still many designers floating around the valley, perhaps not at distinguished companies like HP but small ones, who were products of the homebrew computer club culture and didn't always understand the analog (or physical) properties of their digital circuits.