Author Topic: Ebay Rant  (Read 13932 times)

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Offline george graves

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2015, 11:19:43 am »
He most likely has more then one for sale.

Offline Shock

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2015, 02:25:16 pm »
Reminds me of a particular seller currently selling some old vintage computer gear (old Mac classics etc...). He gave the usual spiel about "pulled out of a working environment" or "worked last time it was powered up" or something equally non-descript and useless. But then also goes on to state (and I paraphrase) "I will not power this unit up under any circumstances. This is the buyers responsibility".

If it's not been powered on for years and you still want to buy it, then I see nothing unfair in him advising that testing is up to you. He is not hiding the fact that it may have a problem, you have to accept that computers decades old fail without warning unless they have been fully restored and stress tested.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2015, 07:20:54 pm »
If it's not been powered on for years and you still want to buy it, then I see nothing unfair in him advising that testing is up to you. He is not hiding the fact that it may have a problem, you have to accept that computers decades old fail without warning unless they have been fully restored and stress tested.

Oh I fully understand that, however if you're unsure of it's working condition, you say so. Don't beat around the bush. Especially if it's being sold as "used" rather than "not working/for parts". I think it's a little rich that a seller won't take a few moments to plug it in and switch it on, yet still expect several hundred dollars for what could be an expensive door stop. It's not a lucky dip.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 07:23:41 pm by Halcyon »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2015, 07:53:52 pm »
If it's not been powered on for years and you still want to buy it, then I see nothing unfair in him advising that testing is up to you. He is not hiding the fact that it may have a problem, you have to accept that computers decades old fail without warning unless they have been fully restored and stress tested.

Oh I fully understand that, however if you're unsure of it's working condition, you say so. Don't beat around the bush. Especially if it's being sold as "used" rather than "not working/for parts". I think it's a little rich that a seller won't take a few moments to plug it in and switch it on, yet still expect several hundred dollars for what could be an expensive door stop. It's not a lucky dip.

I think the difference is between a collector who wants a deal and a seller who want's to sell it. Reality is despite it working there is a large chance for it to fail and him to be blamed no matter what. I'm not sure how Ebay deals with vintage electronics dispute cases, I just don't blame him. Anyway you're on an electronics engineering forum, you should just repair anything that comes broken. :)
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 189, 87V, 117, 112   >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2015, 08:17:44 pm »
A bit of a rant about eBay Sellers:
...
...
I decided to do a little more poking around, and found something that bothered me. Firstly, the listing was re-listed after being sold (I've been watching it for a while to see what would happen) with the exact same pictures.
...
...

While some of the other points are valid concerns, the relist/same-picture may be just for convenience.

Tons of times, I have seen "photo for illustration only" and cases where they merely relist than posted it new - perhaps eBay price concern, perhaps keeping certain counters active (number of views, number sold).

I don't know why a specific seller relist or reuse photo, but I have done it too and this was the reason:

Some time ago, I sold my Jazz backup "system", 2 drives and a dozen or so cartridges.  When I first listed the drive as a pair, it didn't sell.  I relisted as single and sold the first drive.  Then I do it again to sell the second drive - tried first packaging 2nd drive with 4 cartridge and after no-go, relisted with lower minimum-bid but with single cartridge.

I also sold the cartridges in different configuration yet with the same photo.  I separately sold a used-4-pack, an unopened-4-pack, and 4 loose singles all use this same picture.  In this case, the photo was the unopened 4-pack sitting next to some opened singles front view and opened singles back view.  The title alone describes if it was opened-4-pack, un-opened-4-pack, or single.


When I have doubts about the listing/seller, I like to ask them a question.  First I want to find out if there is a knowledgeable person at the other end and second find out how responsive they are.  That, I think, is a million times more telling than if it is a relist or same phone.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2015, 12:30:31 am »
I am an occasional seller on Ebay.  If it is an old piece of gear that I got at an auction and don't want to mess with I will say something like condition unknown, or no obvious faults but not tested or whatever applies.

When I pull something out of my own junk pile, I might not want to power it up, but might well remember powering it up a decade or more ago.  In that case a worked last time description would be appropriate and I might well use it.  Things that would fall under this description in my own junk pile would be old 5 inch floppy drives, 3.5 inch floppy drives, old Ethernet switches and cards and the like.   I also have some old radios that I haven't operated for a decade, and don't have any interest in powering up.  If the room vs nostalgia balance ever changes so that these go on the sales block the worked last time I tried description would go on.  (I would probably mention the time of last use in the description).
 

Offline Neganur

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2015, 08:49:04 pm »
personally, I find this really problematic as for example the German ebay store tells you to not list items as "used" when you don't know if the item is in working condition.
If you look at the definition of "used" it says (loosely translated):

"items is used, may have signs of wear but is in good shape and fully operational. The item may be a demo unit or a return. Read the item description for details of possible defects or faults."

So if you don't list exactly what is wrong (within your best abilities of course) the buyer must assume that the condition is according to the definition used by the German ebay store. At the very least you should know if it "powers up but seems to have issues" (and then give an example of an issue). An obscure item description is usually coupled with an "as is, no returns!", but that just doesn't work this easy in the German ebay. If you listed it as "used" and not clearly state that the item has defects or does not work, you will have to take the item back as it deviates significantly from the item description. You're best off giving a good item description with pictures of all the problematic spots you could find, or list it as "defect".

This seems to be different in ebay.com (and other ebays perhaps?). Especially the US ebay, I pretty much assume that the item is defect when listed as "used" but "as is" or worse "pulled from a working environment"

What is a 'working environment' anyway, the place people work at? The place that is functional after all the defective stuff was removed...?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 08:51:20 pm by Neganur »
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2015, 09:37:44 pm »
If you listed it as "used" and not clearly state that the item has defects or does not work, you will have to take the item back as it deviates significantly from the item description.
It's the same on US eBay.  This changed recently, and some sellers have not kept up.

Quote
What is a 'working environment' anyway, the place people work at? The place that is functional after all the defective stuff was removed...?
Ha.  Often it means a company where everyone was laid off, and the equipment was sold... a "no longer working" environment.

 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2015, 02:54:22 am »
personally, I find this really problematic as for example the German ebay store tells you to not list items as "used" when you don't know if the item is in working condition.
If you look at the definition of "used" it says (loosely translated):

"items is used, may have signs of wear but is in good shape and fully operational. The item may be a demo unit or a return. Read the item description for details of possible defects or faults."

So if you don't list exactly what is wrong (within your best abilities of course) the buyer must assume that the condition is according to the definition used by the German ebay store. At the very least you should know if it "powers up but seems to have issues" (and then give an example of an issue). An obscure item description is usually coupled with an "as is, no returns!", but that just doesn't work this easy in the German ebay. If you listed it as "used" and not clearly state that the item has defects or does not work, you will have to take the item back as it deviates significantly from the item description. You're best off giving a good item description with pictures of all the problematic spots you could find, or list it as "defect".

This seems to be different in ebay.com (and other ebays perhaps?). Especially the US ebay, I pretty much assume that the item is defect when listed as "used" but "as is" or worse "pulled from a working environment"

What is a 'working environment' anyway, the place people work at? The place that is functional after all the defective stuff was removed...?

I guess I am a little confused about what the proper response should be.  The choices that might apply in EBay's list are "New", "Used" and "Not Working, for Parts Only".

One group here wants untested gear to be labeled "Not Working...".  Clearly at least potentially inaccurate.  I believe the same group wants the device tested and possibly calibrated, but doesn't want to pay any premium for this service.  If I am going to take the time and effort to turn on and evaluate something I sell I am going to ask more for it.

Another way of saying this is, when something is listed as unpowered, or untested, or whatever there is some buyers risk.  If you want to reduce that risk you move up the quality chain.  At the high end of the chain you buy new, warranted items.  They do cost a great deal more.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2015, 06:07:42 am »
If it's not been powered on for years and you still want to buy it, then I see nothing unfair in him advising that testing is up to you. He is not hiding the fact that it may have a problem, you have to accept that computers decades old fail without warning unless they have been fully restored and stress tested.

Oh I fully understand that, however if you're unsure of it's working condition, you say so. Don't beat around the bush. Especially if it's being sold as "used" rather than "not working/for parts". I think it's a little rich that a seller won't take a few moments to plug it in and switch it on, yet still expect several hundred dollars for what could be an expensive door stop. It's not a lucky dip.

If it's listed as used, it HAS to work.  Saying "as-is" or "not tested" doesn't mean anything - if it's listed as used, eBay consdiders that to be something that works as intended.  If it doesn't work or it's not known, it must be sold "for parts or non-working".  This is because so many shady sellers would sell shit they knew didn't work and claim it was simply untested.

Also, if the seller ships it and it doesn't work, it's their responsibility to pay shipping back.  So feel free to buy stuff listed as used, and if it doesn't work, you are covered by the eBay buyer protection and will get a full refund.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2015, 06:12:44 am »
I guess I am a little confused about what the proper response should be.  The choices that might apply in EBay's list are "New", "Used" and "Not Working, for Parts Only".

One group here wants untested gear to be labeled "Not Working...".  Clearly at least potentially inaccurate.  I believe the same group wants the device tested and possibly calibrated, but doesn't want to pay any premium for this service.  If I am going to take the time and effort to turn on and evaluate something I sell I am going to ask more for it.

Basically, you can't transfer the risk of "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't" to the buyer unless it is listed as "for parts/non working".  This is actually very fair, IMO, because it gives sellers the choice.  You can test it and make sure it works (and get more $$ for your item).  Or you can list it as non-working/no-returns, take less and the buyer takes the risk.

There is no way for eBay to know whether the seller knew something worked or not prior to listing... so this is, IMO, a fair way to do it.
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Offline Deathwish

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2015, 06:43:27 am »
Personally i cant abide chinese sellers who mark an item as dispatched yet the hermes or other tracking number shows it has not even hit their system or been picked up days later
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Offline Neganur

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2015, 08:35:05 am »
One group here wants untested gear to be labeled "Not Working...".  Clearly at least potentially inaccurate.  I believe the same group wants the device tested and possibly calibrated, but doesn't want to pay any premium for this service.  If I am going to take the time and effort to turn on and evaluate something I sell I am going to ask more for it.

Another way of saying this is, when something is listed as unpowered, or untested, or whatever there is some buyers risk.  If you want to reduce that risk you move up the quality chain.  At the high end of the chain you buy new, warranted items.  They do cost a great deal more.

What happened to the group that just wants accurate item descriptions :) Reading a few posts back, I don't get the impression that anyone required you to offer free service?

Making a good ebay add (and I guess this is my own definition of good) is actually surprisingly laborious. But good photos, e.g. of the oscilloscope actually measuring something, and a proper item description that also lists possible problems (a ding in the enclosure, cracked plastic of a trimpot, holy moly 5V in measures as 10V) not only increase your chance of a good sale but also reduce the chance of someone filing a case claim.

Of course there can be limits to what you personally are willing to test but the minimum should be to see if the item works. I can't follow how you would post something as "used" when you never powered it up and hence, have no idea if the item fits ebay's definition of "used". Maybe there is also some seller's risk :P

I suppose you could list a broken item as "used" if you described, in great detail, the parts that do not work or are faulty. I think this rule is more about not to create false confidence, which in my opinion "sorry, not tested. Won't touch it with a stick", "as is" and "pulled from a working environment" is when you claim the item is "used (but functional)".

I may also misunderstand the as-is statement. I think it means "you buy what you see here right now, no less no more."?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 08:36:48 am by Neganur »
 

Offline XOIIO

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2015, 08:48:31 am »
Personally i cant abide chinese sellers who mark an item as dispatched yet the hermes or other tracking number shows it has not even hit their system or been picked up days later

You mean the tracking numbers you get work? all the china post ones I have gotten barely show any info at all.

Offline Deathwish

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2015, 08:57:03 am »
Personally i cant abide chinese sellers who mark an item as dispatched yet the hermes or other tracking number shows it has not even hit their system or been picked up days later

You mean the tracking numbers you get work? all the china post ones I have gotten barely show any info at all.

No, Chinese sellers in the UK shipping with allegedly UK couriers, I have one now who marked it as shipped a day or so ago and supplied a Hermes tracking number, Hermes havent even seen it yet.

Electrons are typically male, always looking for any hole to get into.
trying to strangle someone who talks out of their rectal cavity will fail, they can still breath.
God hates North Wales, he has put my home address on the blacklist of all couriers with instructions to divert all parcels.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Ebay Rant
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2015, 05:31:50 pm »
Could be worse, you could have a SAPO Track N lose number, where the item has arrived (  month or so late at best) but where the tracking number shows it is still in another city.

We loved the late unlamented PX couriers ( part of the railways) where they would get a parcel at 3PM, tracking would be live 2 minutes later, and they would email at 9PM that it had been lost. Next day rinse and repeat, the insurance covered the replacement and we got refunded both the waybill cost and got a free waybill for the next parcel. Typically 1 in 3 would go missing, and insurance was so cheap it made no sense not to have it, while they had no excess and paid within 24 hours. Some months our bill was zero, as they lost so much. No wonder they finally were closed after a few years of losing spectacular amounts of money.
 


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