EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Psi on March 14, 2019, 08:53:46 am
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3METfruYMUo&t=0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3METfruYMUo&t=0s)
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That sucks. They better grab a wet dry shop vac.
Was it just me or did Dave look like he had just been to the dentist?
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They better grab a wet dry shop vac.
STAT!
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I admire your attitude... always the happy, smiley Dave. :-+
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Oh my gosh! :(
This is really really bad.
Hurry!
Wet vac!
Dehumidifier!
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A lot of these thrown together concrete pre-fab buildings leak. Our building at work is fairly new and everywhere leaks during a heavy downpour (including through the light fittings as you've observed). The drainage just can't cope with a large amount of water (which might happen in Sydney 2-3 times a year). My guess is they just engineer them to be "good enough" to save on materials.
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Bad news at EEVblog HQ :'(
Besides a cheap Bunnings shop vac, source some old towels and bedsheets to attract the water up,
squeeze them out and repeat.
Op shops should have some cheap, donate back when done
Good luck with it and check the wiring with an insulation meter before going 240 volt again, you only need a few rogue droplets to cause issues :scared:
...and get a hair dryer to blow dry a LOT of gear by the looks of it :-//
I smell developer/builder/tradie halfassed work somewhere ::)
with lashings of Friday afternoon 'she'll be right' verified 'checks' :palm:
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What a bad situation.
I had this once in California and it took many month to clean up and even longer for the insurance to wrap it up.
Dave, I admire your positive attitude at a situation like this.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3METfruYMUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3METfruYMUo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LIOaZz3dw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LIOaZz3dw)
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I would think that the carpet has to be replaced , otherwise you might start getting the nasty black mold .
https://blackmoldcontrol.com/how-to-remove-black-mold-from-carpet-and-rugs/
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That sucks, Dave. I am sorry to see that.
Where I live such natural disasters are somewhat common (hail, tornado) and usually you have to pay extra to cover such types of natural events. From experience in dealing with such disasters, usually the very first thing is to inventory every minute damage for the insurance company (that you consider a loss or will spend time/money to repair) - every thing counts, from soaked wood in the benches to spills or water ingress on the equipment (especially the optical equipment). Since you mentioned this happened after a hail storm, file a claim as soon as possible as there may be a surge of claims that will delay payments. Also, check with the insurance if a professional cleaning company can be hired to thoroughly clean the carpet, as this is preferrable instead of moving the lab (not sure if this is possible, though).
Oh well... Good luck with the recovery efforts.
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A similar event happened to one of my customers where large hail was washed into the box gutter sumps blocking them entirely, heavy rain followed and as the box gutters lacked a proper overflow the water just flowed back in under the deck roof and into the ceiling space. A once in a hundred year event happened twice in two years so they ended up replacing the roof drainage configuration altogether as the old one couldn't cope and more importantly couldn't be trusted.
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So sorry to hear all this. Hope insurance acts quickly, though some things are not replaceable.
Appreciate your good spirit.
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-Large Shop?VAC sucks up all the water..
-Beanbag seat. Dump stuffing, (unzip or cut and add zipper), wash outer case, and find new stuffing.
-Got Milk? Got Insurance? Ya got it all documented.
I guess We will be watching EEVBlog YouTubes for awhile on what can be saved, and what cannot..
I live in fog and rain country. Friend had his photo studio flooded plus he was sharing the space with a guy who was a heavy eBay seller. So much got damaged. cameras washed in fresh water, then lightly toasted at 200*F with oven door ajar overnight. Saved them. lenses lucky, eBay guy had huge loss.
Glad I have a landlord in our building that re-coats the roof every 2 or 3 years.
Dave, I'm really sorry for you...this stuff sucks... You could look on the bright side. insurance pays for a lot of new equipment. the community and manufacturers will want to help you out. the landlord will be replacing the carpets, redoing the lighting, and likely check and replace the sheet rock in the walls. That is cool because you can have them add even more plug receptacles!
Around here it's flooding, fires, and earthquakes. The last one, left 100's of buildings "red tagged" for demolition. This stuff is not new to me...
Ah, MtFgrTck,SLmeapogf -pain in the arse..
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Ahhhhh!
The soldering sponge nice and wet :palm:
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Damn that sucks! Hope there isn't too much actual damage to equipment.
But to look on the bright side, is there video series on "water damage repair to lab instruments" coming up?
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Man, that sucks! :-- I'm glad Dave has a sense of humor about it. I'd be royally pissed. :rant:
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Good luck. Hope you get things back in order soon and don't find too many major problems with the contents.
Or, was I just taken in by one of your elaborate early April fools jokes??
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Dave & Dave, you have my deepest sympathy.
So sorry about that pitiful sight of your lab. That really hurts. :'(
Hopefully you get the leakage fixed immediately, so that no additional flooding happens.
Hopefully your landlord and the insurance will come up for the damage.
Best wishes for the restoration.
Frank
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Good luck man. Get onto the insurance company el pronto.
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Oh - you can bet Dave isn't enthusiastic about such an event - but, hey, what can you do?
Getting mad isn't going to achieve anything, so you might as well just sit back and laugh - and then get stuck into doing something about it.
Dave's attitude and response is no surprise to me. It's the sort of thing you will find in a lot of Aussies - and there would be a few of us who would be willing to come over and lend a hand.
Besides, the flooding in Dave's lab is nothing compared to what some people in Sydney have had to deal with today.
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Besides, the flooding in Dave's lab is nothing compared to what some people in Sydney have had to deal with today.
Hey, at least is not sewage. :P
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How deep is it? Insanely deep! ^-^ ;D
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That's not right... Hope it ends up not too much damage... Good luck!
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Uuurgh, what a pain in the neck. Hope the damage is contained!
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A similar event happened to one of my customers where large hail was washed into the box gutter sumps blocking them entirely, heavy rain followed and as the box gutters lacked a proper overflow the water just flowed back in under the deck roof and into the ceiling space. A once in a hundred year event happened twice in two years so they ended up replacing the roof drainage configuration altogether as the old one couldn't cope and more importantly couldn't be trusted.
Exact same thing happens at our house, it back floods into the kitchen. Upgraded the gutters recently but still happened tonight.
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A similar event happened to one of my customers where large hail was washed into the box gutter sumps blocking them entirely, heavy rain followed and as the box gutters lacked a proper overflow the water just flowed back in under the deck roof and into the ceiling space. A once in a hundred year event happened twice in two years so they ended up replacing the roof drainage configuration altogether as the old one couldn't cope and more importantly couldn't be trusted.
Exact same thing happens at our house, it back floods into the kitchen. Upgraded the gutters recently but still happened tonight.
My place in Melbourne has a bit like that, took a few tries but we eventually got it to handle heavy rain without flooding.
In Sydney I'm in a ground floor apartment that has a balcony. Due to garden build up it's now a sunken balcony that gets detritus that blocks the drain, almost any heavy rain it floods somewhat if I haven't very recently cleared the drain out. I still prefer that to the other flooding cases I've had from overhead (upstairs neighbour flooded) and underneath (sewer backed up at midnight).
Water sucks.
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You clearly don't understand why this is happening Dave.. Had you supported the Fontus scampaign you would of been walking into the lab to find fresh bottled drinking water.. now look what you've done. ;D
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Weird 1st Post, is this guy a Fontus Troll?
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Best of luck, and hope the most important things survived, specially those that the insurance money can't replace.
Despite all the mess, keeping up with Dave's good spirit, can we expect to be flooded with repair videos on the next sessions of EEVblog? ::)
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::) It's called humour, and I didn't actually realise that was my first post..but I guess it was, I generally just lurk and search here.
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Flooding sucks...big, big time.
Like others have suggested, the carpet may require replacement. Otherwise the mold smell will not go away.
I hope you have comprehensive insurance.
On the bright side, there will be plenty of equipment to perform your teardown videos.
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And mold or other mushrooms can grow. That's wont be good for the lungs. I would not reccomend to use a carpet floor when there is a chance of flooding in the building.
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Dave....very sorry to learn that the lab got flooded. Any kind of damage, especially water is a real bummer and my sympathies go out to you. Insurance is good to have, but money sometimes doesn’t always make one feel whole again. I certainly agree with others that your positive attitude is infectious. Personally, if that had happened to my lab, I wouldn’t be able to hold the camera steady, let alone talk
@grouchobyte
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That sucks to see it all flooded, hopefully most of the wet gear can be salvaged
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Since this was clean rainwater, the carpet might not be a problem. Just think of it as a really thorough carpet cleaning. You shouldn't have any trouble finding a company who does this type of cleanup on a daily basis. I think it would be best to use a pro so that mold doesn't become a problem.
Now that I think about it, the carpet could be the least of your worries. The bulkhead where the lights were leaking water will likely have to be torn down, either for cleaning and drying to prevent mold and/or to try and plug the leaks.
Everybody is talking about your insurance. Shouldn't the landlord have to pay for the damage to your equipment? :-//
Ed
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As far as floods go that didn't look too bad, clear relatively clean water, and most of the damage limited to one room. Odds anything that wasn't powered on and doesn't have a battery, that can withstand dunking in deionised water, then drying with or without spraying down with IPA (to speed up drying to reduce corrosion) will be fine. Remove any batteries (including memory backup) IMMEDIATELY for best odds of successful repair.
There shouldn't be a mould smell in the first 48 hours unless this is a repeat occurrence of flooding. If there's preexisting mould you may have a claim against the landlord that they failed to disclose or adequately remediate a defect that they should reasonably have known about.
A professional carpet cleaning company should be able to suck nearly all the water out of the carpet, shampoo it and get it dry enough for a couple of industrial dehumidifiers + some space heating to get it fully dry in under a week.
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I know the feeling. I cry over all the equipment. Keep figting. :palm:
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A similar event happened to one of my customers where large hail was washed into the box gutter sumps blocking them entirely, heavy rain followed and as the box gutters lacked a proper overflow the water just flowed back in under the deck roof and into the ceiling space. A once in a hundred year event happened twice in two years so they ended up replacing the roof drainage configuration altogether as the old one couldn't cope and more importantly couldn't be trusted.
Exact same thing happens at our house, it back floods into the kitchen. Upgraded the gutters recently but still happened tonight.
My place in Melbourne has a bit like that, took a few tries but we eventually got it to handle heavy rain without flooding.
In Sydney I'm in a ground floor apartment that has a balcony. Due to garden build up it's now a sunken balcony that gets detritus that blocks the drain, almost any heavy rain it floods somewhat if I haven't very recently cleared the drain out. I still prefer that to the other flooding cases I've had from overhead (upstairs neighbour flooded) and underneath (sewer backed up at midnight).
Water sucks.
expand the drain, the problem I think is that your drain is too small. Make a recess around it and put a bigger grating on top that is more difficult to clog. Usually you get like a 2 inch grating or something stupidly small. No wonder they always clog.
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Use a shop vacuum to suck up the water and then give the carpet a good clean using a wet carpet cleaner (+ the right soap). The carpet will be good as new.
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I have a suggestion: After drying the floor etcetera. Get an ozone (Trioxygen O3) generator. It will kill the tihngs that grow and remove bad odors. Note that the gas is toxic so you should not be in the room.
https://www.expondo.se/ozongeneratorer/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwf-Hma-C4QIViKiaCh2VzwOsEAAYASAAEgJvW_D_BwE (https://www.expondo.se/ozongeneratorer/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwf-Hma-C4QIViKiaCh2VzwOsEAAYASAAEgJvW_D_BwE)
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Ozone also damages plastics and other organic materials, and if there's condensing humidity aggressively corrodes most metals so best *NOT* done with *any* valuable equipment, parts etc. still present.
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It is nature lets see how it is in our country :D >:D >:D >:D
https://www.mojevideo.sk/video/2ee54/oravska_lesna_zima_2019.html (https://www.mojevideo.sk/video/2ee54/oravska_lesna_zima_2019.html)
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You weren't playing Jumanji, were you?
(http://www.imcdb.org/i505289.jpg)
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A few years agoa pipe bust upstairs at work and it went everywhere, the toilet, kitchen corridor were flooded.
Turned out it was an inspection hatch that let go - on the sewage outflow from management toilet upstairs. (Yes - we really were shat on from on high).
As for what to do - your in Australia - just go surfing ;)
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You weren't playing Jumanji, were you?
(http://www.imcdb.org/i505289.jpg)
You need only inner air tube from the tire and have fun :D
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At first the Lab vibrated....then it flooded....This place does not want you >:D
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Had to deal with similar situations twice.
Being in Canada it was related to spring snow, ice and rain damming.
It is "clean" water compared to a sewer back flush.
In both cases the insurance immediately hired a "disaster" company to come and clean the flooding , used a mold preventing chemical on the carpets, re-clean and vacuum again and installed industrial dehumidifiers.
After about a week or so the space was usable again.
They did work with the building owners to find the issues and make sure it did not happened again. Perhaps the threat of loosing insurance, but they did change the drainage slope on the building and hosed down the roof too in the summer to find potential leaks.
So, don't panic about potential molds and such and make sure it does not wait to deal with.
Best luck Dave.
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That sucks! I've always prefered to own the space I live and work in, but this is one of those nightmare situations where renting can be a big relief. At least fixing it is not your problem. Still sucks about all the gear, and probably having to move all the stuff again, though!
Hopefully the insurance company might actually cover all of that and move it all for you to save the hassle.
Wonder if the water got in through the outside wall somewhere due to bad flashing job and it worked it's way inside. Or maybe a roof drain pipe is blocked and it backed up. Had an issue with our roof drainage at my work and the water would end up in the battery room. Nothing like walking into a room full of 3900ah flooded acid batteries to find a huge puddle of a clear liquid. Water is not the first thing that came to mind. :o
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4nKxjfXgcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4nKxjfXgcg)
Dave didn't notice this though.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/eevblog-lab-flooded!/?action=dlattach;attach=677361;image)
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Everybody is talking about your insurance. Shouldn't the landlord have to pay for the damage to your equipment? :-//
The usual thing is that the building owner or body corporate (depending on the ownership of the building) will be responsible for insurance on the building, which includes fixtures such as carpet and light fittings. Each tenant will be responsible for the insurance on their own contents.
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Dave didn't notice this though.
...snip...
I saw that too, not sure if it's a shadow or water. Looking at it again I think it's water, I don't see anything it could be a shadow of.
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Everybody is talking about your insurance. Shouldn't the landlord have to pay for the damage to your equipment? :-//
The usual thing is that the building owner or body corporate (depending on the ownership of the building) will be responsible for insurance on the building, which includes fixtures such as carpet and light fittings. Each tenant will be responsible for the insurance on their own contents.
and usually that for apartments and such that also goes for finding a temporary place to stay while it is getting fixed
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Dave didn't notice this though.
...snip...
I saw that too, not sure if it's a shadow or water. Looking at it again I think it's water, I don't see anything it could be a shadow of.
It looks too symmetrical to be a water stain.
Ed
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Everybody is talking about your insurance. Shouldn't the landlord have to pay for the damage to your equipment? :-//
The usual thing is that the building owner or body corporate (depending on the ownership of the building) will be responsible for insurance on the building, which includes fixtures such as carpet and light fittings. Each tenant will be responsible for the insurance on their own contents.
and usually that for apartments and such that also goes for finding a temporary place to stay while it is getting fixed
But I can guarantee that if the tenant damages the building, the tenant is responsible for the cost of repairs. So isn't the building owner responsible when a leaky building damages the tenant's property? Now the old 'Act of God' exclusion might factor in here. Cue the lawyers. :palm:
Ed
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Cue the lawyers.
No lawyers will be involved. This isn't America.
In cases like this, your reasonable Aussie will just put in the insurance claim and get on with it. Getting lawyers involved just costs money which will put up premiums and waste a bucket of time - and there is no guarantee of winning (unless you're one of the lawyers, measuring a "win" by their balance sheet).
Dave is certainly a reasonable Aussie.
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Cue the lawyers.
No lawyers will be involved. This isn't America.
In cases like this, your reasonable Aussie will just put in the insurance claim and get on with it. Getting lawyers involved just costs money which will put up premiums and waste a bucket of time - and there is no guarantee of winning (unless you're one of the lawyers, measuring a "win" by their balance sheet).
Dave is certainly a reasonable Aussie.
Indeed. It's a pretty simple matter for the insurers. Just about all policies will cover this kind of damage by default. They'll just send out their people to inspect the damage and make a list of what needs replacing. (You do need extra cover however if the building is near a river, creek, ocean etc... as "flooding" due to burst banks etc... aren't automatically covered.)
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Everybody is talking about your insurance. Shouldn't the landlord have to pay for the damage to your equipment? :-//
The usual thing is that the building owner or body corporate (depending on the ownership of the building) will be responsible for insurance on the building, which includes fixtures such as carpet and light fittings. Each tenant will be responsible for the insurance on their own contents.
and usually that for apartments and such that also goes for finding a temporary place to stay while it is getting fixed
But I can guarantee that if the tenant damages the building, the tenant is responsible for the cost of repairs. So isn't the building owner responsible when a leaky building damages the tenant's property? Now the old 'Act of God' exclusion might factor in here. Cue the lawyers. :palm:
Ed
only the tenants know how much their stuff is worth and what kind of insurance coverage they need
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I hope you have comprehensive insurance.
It is not my office, so financially not my problem.
No real contents damage of mine.
So the only hit to me is in terms of inconvenience of not having a fully working lab space, and if the carpet has to come up, then likely the entire lab has to move out and back in which will take weeks.
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Dave didn't notice this though.
...snip...
I saw that too, not sure if it's a shadow or water. Looking at it again I think it's water, I don't see anything it could be a shadow of.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/eevblog-lab-flooded!/?action=dlattach;attach=677499;image)
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But I can guarantee that if the tenant damages the building, the tenant is responsible for the cost of repairs. So isn't the building owner responsible when a leaky building damages the tenant's property? Now the old 'Act of God' exclusion might factor in here. Cue the lawyers. :palm:
Only an idiot engages lawyers.
The building strata has insurance, the owner almost certainly has contents insurance (carpet is contents), the insurance companies will deal with it among themselves.
None of this involves me or my insurance. Only thing I could possibly claim for (because it seems nothing of my property was really damaged) is loss/interruption of business of which I don't have insurance for anyway, and even if I did, this doesn't really financially interrupt my business.
If worst comes to worst I still have an empty lab half the size nearby.
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So the only hit to me is in terms of inconvenience of not having a fully working lab space, and if the carpet has to come up, then likely the entire lab has to move out and back in which will take weeks.
Perhaps an EEVBlog "working bee" and BBQ? I'm happy to cook and supply David with all the coffee he needs. ;D
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You should put a pair of SOLUS graphene panels in there, they will dry up the carpet in no time and save on your electricity bill at the same time :-+
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I hope you have comprehensive insurance.
It is not my office, so financially not my problem.
No real contents damage of mine.
So the only hit to me is in terms of inconvenience of not having a fully working lab space, and if the carpet has to come up, then likely the entire lab has to move out and back in which will take weeks.
Then why didn't you go out and get a wet&dry vacuum cleaner? You can rent these for peanuts and they'll suck all the water right out of the carpet. Rent a carpet cleaner while you are at it. You can clear this entire mess in one afternoon and carry on. But you have to be quick.
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Everybody is talking about your insurance. Shouldn't the landlord have to pay for the damage to your equipment? :-//
The usual thing is that the building owner or body corporate (depending on the ownership of the building) will be responsible for insurance on the building, which includes fixtures such as carpet and light fittings. Each tenant will be responsible for the insurance on their own contents.
I think if the landlord is negligent, then they will be liable, but don't worry, just claim off your insurance and they can claim off the landlord's if it's their fault.
The only concern I'd have is premium increases. Here in the UK, the insurance companies are cunts. If you claim, then they increase your premiums for the next few years and changing insurance company doesn't help because the bastards share information.
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Dont you think though that there is a need to investigate a bit before just doing that? Is there underlay? Is the concrete underneath soaked.... You dont want to suck up the surface water and have a fungal outbreak in a few weeks.
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So the only hit to me is in terms of inconvenience of not having a fully working lab space, and if the carpet has to come up, then likely the entire lab has to move out and back in which will take weeks.
Perhaps an EEVBlog "working bee" and BBQ? I'm happy to cook and supply David with all the coffee he needs. ;D
I'll put my hand up for that, too!
IIRC though, Dave isn't into tea or coffee.
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That's not flooded, try living on the South coast of Britain then you'll know what a flood is!
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Since this was clean rainwater, the carpet might not be a problem.
If it's that nylon office carpet then clean water won't do much except wash some dirt out of it. It may leave a tide mark from that but a pass with a carpet cleaner will fix it.
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Why stress any further? ???
Get one of those carpet cleaning people to rock up and sort it out -ASAP-,
he/she may use some magic chemicals/mold/mould inhibitor
and perfume things up a bit. :-*
That's their specialty and a flooded EEVblog lab would be an easier gig for them than some of the stinking suburban rentals they have to rescue,
vacated by semi-feral tenants ::) with locked in pets that did their business on the carpets everywhere :palm:
They work cheap enough, maybe the insurance may pick up the bill or half or it.
For DIY detailed drying, small fan heaters, with variable thermostat cutout dial and inline RCD!!!, propped on a some dry wood or rubber mat,
are great for corners and wet wall stains,
and easier than sitting there bored out of your mind with a heat gun or hair dryer, which may eventually thermal out halfway, unlike fan heaters which can run for hours.
Once a section is warm enough and in a gradual self drying state, the thermostat cutout kills the heater if you forget to check,,
then move it to the next section. Repeat the cycle as necessary, two passes should do it depending on the water retentivity.
I've also done flood stained ceiling sections this way too with the heater propped on a step ladder, most times the plaster bulge (with a timber prop or two) reverts back to normal with minimal staining.
For bad cases a screw/nail refresh and a top coat of paint > good as new.
BTW, this urban hackery has been performed AFTER checking and verifying the surrounding electricals FIRST!!!
and of course with windows and doors open
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Then why didn't you go out and get a wet&dry vacuum cleaner?
I did, within hours, it's in my video.
You can rent these for peanuts and they'll suck all the water right out of the carpet. Rent a carpet cleaner while you are at it. You can clear this entire mess in one afternoon and carry on. But you have to be quick.
It's not that easy. There is foam underlay that is I'm told virtually impossible to get the moisture out of.
A professional industrial cleaner was in the unit next door that also got flooded and they have the exact same carpet and underlay as my office. He said it's gone, there is no saving it. You can save the carpet, but you have to get rid of the underlay and then dry out the carpet with blowers under the carpet, and do it right then and there.
The rental manager said someone would be in on Friday but they never turned up, so my unit has been left to rot for the weekend at the very least.
The place is already starting to stink even though I have 5 fans running plus the aircon. By next week the office is likely going to be unusable.
It's not my financial responsibility, it's the owner. I can't go lifting up carpet and hiring big industrial blowers etc to fix this.
I now need to plan for moving the entire lab out (and then back in when it's all fixed), that's weeks of down time.
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Get one of those carpet cleaning people to rock up and sort it out -ASAP-,
he/she may use some magic chemicals/mold/mould inhibitor
and perfume things up a bit. :-*
It's not my financial responsibility. In fact I should not be getting anyone in without permission of the owner.
And it may all be for naught anyway if the owner decides to use the opportunity to recarpet the whole place under insurance.
They work cheap enough, maybe the insurance may pick up the bill or half or it.
My insurance would have to cover that, and quite frankly I don't want to do that, I'd have to pay the excess, and it may not be claimable anyway because I don't own the carpet. I have contents insurance, and carpet is contents, but it's not my contents.
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Dont you think though that there is a need to investigate a bit before just doing that? Is there underlay? Is the concrete underneath soaked.... You dont want to suck up the surface water and have a fungal outbreak in a few weeks.
Yes, and this is what the cleaner told me, and he said he's trained in fungal growth in such things and he said it's not going to be savable.
Here is the carpet and underlay in the office next door that also got flooded.
https://www.electrodry.com.au/news-blog/did-your-carpet-get-wet-in-the-recent-storms/ (https://www.electrodry.com.au/news-blog/did-your-carpet-get-wet-in-the-recent-storms/)
I have no authority to go lifting carpet, this is not my unit, I will not take responsibility for it. This happened thursday night, and it won't be until at least Monday that someone will be here, but I've had no word of that anyway.
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It is probably a little late to help now, but pig mat is handy for soaking up big messes like that. Just be sure to get the water absorbing type and not oil absorbing type. They are quite tough and can be reused.
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If you can you claim anything, then you should do it. May be about $20k, supported by pictures of ruined business.
The interruption by flood caused the millions of dollars loss over the world in terms of feels of community. It should be monetarily compensated by faceless insurance company. Just because everyone feels like it.
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Speak of the devil. Just got a call that the cleaning company are coming this afternoon.
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If you can you claim anything, then you should do it. May be about $20k, supported by pictures of ruined business.
The interruption by flood caused the millions of dollars loss over the world in terms of feels of community. It should be monetarily compensated by faceless insurance company. Just because everyone feels like it.
You can't just magically claim for "losses". Contents insurance covers contents, and none of my contents was really damaged. The carpet is contents but doesn't belong to me so I can't claim it.
You need some form of "business continuity" cover in order to be covered for "loss of business" and the like, and I do't have that as it's ridiculously expensive. So much so my insurance broker recommended I not take it out. And then I'd likely have to prove actually loss of business income of which there really isn't any.
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Yeah, if you tried to claim loss of business they would probably say you got 3 videos out of the flood, and videos are your business.
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If you can you claim anything, then you should do it. May be about $20k, supported by pictures of ruined business.
The interruption by flood caused the millions of dollars loss over the world in terms of feels of community. It should be monetarily compensated by faceless insurance company. Just because everyone feels like it.
In Canada, at least, one has to weigh the almost-guaranteed insurance rate increase (for years ahead) plus the current deductible amount before pulling the trigger and making a claim. It's a no-brainer if you experience a costly disaster, but for a small claim, say 2 or 3 times the deductible amount, it can often be not worth it in the long haul. And if the fine-print doesn't cover "full replacement cost", then you'll only get the depreciated value of the damaged items and still have to pay the increased rates next year (plus the deductible).
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I now need to plan for moving the entire lab out (and then back in when it's all fixed), that's weeks of down time.
Is there some other space the landlord owns that you could just move to permanently?
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In Canada, at least, one has to weigh the almost-guaranteed insurance rate increase (for years ahead) plus the current deductible amount before pulling the trigger and making a claim. It's a no-brainer if you experience a costly disaster, but for a small claim, say 2 or 3 times the deductible amount, it can often be not worth it in the long haul. And if the fine-print doesn't cover "full replacement cost", then you'll only get the depreciated value of the damaged items and still have to pay the increased rates next year (plus the deductible).
Increasing the rates after a claim has always sounded like a scam to me. However if there is an increase in the rates, it should be considered part of the damage. After all, it's a loss which is a result of the incident.
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Points to consider:
Landlord
Is the landlord an individual with not much experience or a professional?
An individual will often hum and haw over making decisions (spending money), while the pro has see it all before, knows what to do and not waste time etc.
Water damage
An insurance company should have no problem paying for wet equipment/ electronics. In their eyes it is water damaged and if still works may be unreliable/dangerous. 'Normal people' do not clean electronics out with IPA and repair corroded tracks.
Tot it all up and might make sense to make a claim.
Continued insurance
Insurance companies do not like paying for flooding events more than once. There could be problems if the office was flooded before. There will be a problem if it happens again in a few years. They will not cover the inevitable, or at best charge very high premiums. The building will have to be changed to stop it happening again, which maybe easer said than done.
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It's not that easy. There is foam underlay that is I'm told virtually impossible to get the moisture out of.
In that case it's probably goneski.
I now need to plan for moving the entire lab out (and then back in when it's all fixed), that's weeks of down time.
This is the reason they make carpet tiles - you can just pull out the affected tiles and replace them without having to clear out the entire room.
Ask the owner for some of those when it gets replaced.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npOrOFUJL_0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npOrOFUJL_0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FifUju_hsbY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FifUju_hsbY)
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I now need to plan for moving the entire lab out (and then back in when it's all fixed), that's weeks of down time.
Is there some other space the landlord owns that you could just move to permanently?
I can always move back to my old lab which is still vacant and ironically has brand new carpet.
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Dave, you might be able to recover your equipment. Put items in an oven on the lowest setting to let it dry out quickly. Or do an insurance claim.
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Dave, you might be able to recover your equipment.
I'm sure Dave knows what to do.
All the water was at floor level apart from that one table so not much stuff will be damaged.
(might need a new Chinese hot air gun)
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Dave, you might be able to recover your equipment.
There doesn't seem to be any damage.
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There doesn't seem to be any damage.
Not even that keyboard? :popcorn:
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Dave, You could always do a video on how to repair / revive flooded equipment.
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Getting dehumidifiers in there, fast, is important... it's amazing how fast steel (inside equipment) begins to rust when the humidity is high.
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You can rent these for peanuts and they'll suck all the water right out of the carpet. Rent a carpet cleaner while you are at it. You can clear this entire mess in one afternoon and carry on. But you have to be quick.
It's not that easy. There is foam underlay that is I'm told virtually impossible to get the moisture out of.
At least you've got the cleaners in. At first sight the underlay doesn't really look like foam. More some kind of felt. Anyway, I used to have carpet and felt underlay in my living room. I cleaned that a couple of times (kids and all). I soaked the worst areas by just pouring water (and soap) on it from a bucket. Never had smell or mold problems. Maybe you get lucky and the carpet can stay so you don't have to move everything out & in. Fingers crossed! Unless changing the carpet has already been decided (I didn't follow all the details).
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Getting dehumidifiers in there, fast, is important... it's amazing how fast steel (inside equipment) begins to rust when the humidity is high.
Can he just turn on the aircon?
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There doesn't seem to be any damage.
Wasn't there water running over and through a microscope?
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So the only hit to me is in terms of inconvenience of not having a fully working lab space, and if the carpet has to come up, then likely the entire lab has to move out and back in which will take weeks.
Perhaps an EEVBlog "working bee" and BBQ? I'm happy to cook and supply David with all the coffee he needs. ;D
I'll put my hand up for that, too!
IIRC though, Dave isn't into tea or coffee.
Dave doesn't however David (Ledger) does. Perhaps sparkling water for Dave (Jones) ?
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I have a few out options if needed:
(https://i.imgur.com/vbtHiAI.png)
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This is the reason they make carpet tiles - you can just pull out the affected tiles and replace them without having to clear out the entire room.
I've never understood (should I say the insistence in) the use of carpets in tropical or subtropical countries.
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So the only hit to me is in terms of inconvenience of not having a fully working lab space, and if the carpet has to come up, then likely the entire lab has to move out and back in which will take weeks.
Perhaps an EEVBlog "working bee" and BBQ? I'm happy to cook and supply David with all the coffee he needs. ;D
I'll put my hand up for that, too!
IIRC though, Dave isn't into tea or coffee.
Dave doesn't however David (Ledger) does. Perhaps sparkling water for Dave (Jones) ?
Forgive me. I missed the Dave/David differentiation. No excuse for that. :palm:
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Continued insurance
Insurance companies do not like paying for flooding events more than once. There could be problems if the office was flooded before.
You have to be VERY careful about the semantics when discussing water damage like this.
There is a very big difference between what actually constitutes a flood and what Dave has experienced. From my inquiries some time ago, inasmuch as insurance goes, a flood is where water builds up around and rises up to infiltrate a property/building. (A flood can occur at a place that has experienced no rain at all, but has had rainfall somewhere else which has flowed downhill to it.) This is NOT what happened to the EEVblog lab.
The other form of water damage comes under the heading of storm damage. This is where precipitation infiltrates a property/building from above, through whatever mechanism (broken roof, overflowing gutters, etc.) and flows/falls down causing damage on its way. This IS what happened to the EEVblog lab. (Storm damage can only occur when the storm occurs at the property.)
Dave's use of the term "flooded" is common usage. It is not the correct term when discussing this type of experience in regards to insurance.
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Increasing the rates after a claim has always sounded like a scam to me.
I can understand your sentiment, but, unfortunately, it isn't.
The process that calculates your premium takes into consideration several factors - and one of those is "claims experience". This has been the case ever since insurance began and has been commonly encapsulated under the heading of "No claim bonus". This is where they take all the relevant factors which includes a certain level of claiming and calculate the premium for that. They then take that number and discount it according to their claims experience rules, which they present to the insured as their "No claim bonus" terms and conditions.
The logic is simple. If you have two people with identical risk factors, but one claims more than the other, then the one who claims more will pay more.
However if there is an increase in the rates, it should be considered part of the damage. After all, it's a loss which is a result of the incident.
Interesting angle - but you'll be paying a little extra in the premium if you could get that.
This is the job of actuaries - to take all these details into consideration so as to provide a sound statistical basis for insurance companies to be able to be competitive, fund claims and stay in business.
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Dave, You could always do a video on how to repair / revive flooded equipment.
Not just repair/revive, but to show what to check before using again. Even items that get left for some time before being examined might present additional issues.
Dave - this event might have just given you some new material!!
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The rental manager said someone would be in on Friday but they never turned up, so my unit has been left to rot for the weekend at the very least.
The place is already starting to stink even though I have 5 fans running plus the aircon. By next week the office is likely going to be unusable.
It's not my financial responsibility, it's the owner. I can't go lifting up carpet and hiring big industrial blowers etc to fix this.
I now need to plan for moving the entire lab out (and then back in when it's all fixed), that's weeks of down time.
Woah, that's a drag. Hope it all gets rectified soon, Dave. Glad to hear all of your equipment is OK.
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At least it is nice "clean" rain-water. My basement lab was flooded with backed-up sewer water from the pipe in the street. The shower in the daylight basement was the lowest point along my road, and when the sewer main got clogged, it started seeping into my basement. I had already removed the original carpet when it flooded from heavy rains several years ago.
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Hopefully they also figure out the cause, because if they don't fix it, it's only going to happen again the next time it rains or hails hard or at least the specific way (angle of wind maybe?) that triggered it to happen. This is where (building) insurance companies get you too... they will cover damage, but not fixing the cause. So in this case it's up to land lord to fix the cause but their insurance probably won't cover that.
Found this out when I had a roof leak. They would cover the damage (was very minimal as I caught it fast) but not fixing it so it does not happen again. You pay all that money to insurance companies and they always have ifs and buts about what they cover.
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Hopefully they also figure out the cause, because if they don't fix it, it's only going to happen again the next time it rains or hails hard or at least the specific way (angle of wind maybe?) that triggered it to happen. This is where (building) insurance companies get you too... they will cover damage, but not fixing the cause. So in this case it's up to land lord to fix the cause but their insurance probably won't cover that.
Found this out when I had a roof leak. They would cover the damage (was very minimal as I caught it fast) but not fixing it so it does not happen again. You pay all that money to insurance companies and they always have ifs and buts about what they cover.
So they're not willing to pay for something that would reduce the chances of them getting another claim? Very unlike health insurance covering checkups and car insurance covering defensive driving...
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Hopefully they also figure out the cause, because if they don't fix it, it's only going to happen again the next time it rains or hails hard or at least the specific way (angle of wind maybe?) that triggered it to happen. This is where (building) insurance companies get you too... they will cover damage, but not fixing the cause. So in this case it's up to land lord to fix the cause but their insurance probably won't cover that.
Found this out when I had a roof leak. They would cover the damage (was very minimal as I caught it fast) but not fixing it so it does not happen again. You pay all that money to insurance companies and they always have ifs and buts about what they cover.
So they're not willing to pay for something that would reduce the chances of them getting another claim? Very unlike health insurance covering checkups and car insurance covering defensive driving...
they are in the insurance business not building maintenance, so they will just increase the premium to match the
increased risk if you don't fix the cause
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I'm starting to monitor the humidity and stuff in the lab:
https://www.uradmonitor.com/tools/dashboard-04/?open=820000BE (https://www.uradmonitor.com/tools/dashboard-04/?open=820000BE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYPAoSGyObs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYPAoSGyObs)
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So they're not willing to pay for something that would reduce the chances of them getting another claim? Very unlike health insurance covering checkups and car insurance covering defensive driving...
It would just end up with insurance companies doing maintenance. Realistically they'll simply deny your claim when there's a negligible lack of maintenance leading to damage.
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Hopefully they also figure out the cause, because if they don't fix it, it's only going to happen again the next time it rains or hails hard or at least the specific way (angle of wind maybe?) that triggered it to happen. This is where (building) insurance companies get you too... they will cover damage, but not fixing the cause. So in this case it's up to land lord to fix the cause but their insurance probably won't cover that.
Found this out when I had a roof leak. They would cover the damage (was very minimal as I caught it fast) but not fixing it so it does not happen again. You pay all that money to insurance companies and they always have ifs and buts about what they cover.
So they're not willing to pay for something that would reduce the chances of them getting another claim? Very unlike health insurance covering checkups and car insurance covering defensive driving...
Yeah that's what I find weird too. You'd think they would want to cover it... But I guess it's cheaper for them to let you put in a couple claims, and then they can just drop you. My parents had a bunch of separate unfortunate events happen in a row and had to do several claims in a row, and the next claim they do, they are getting dropped as a customer. You get around 3-4 claims max. This is not really something they tell you and it might differ between companies.
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Just had a guy come come through and quote for carpet. Turns out the owner didn't have contents insurance!
He owns a lot of property too. Maybe he's of the school that it's cheaper to fix stuff when needed rather than pay insurance.
So looks like the carpet will get replaced, that means the lab gets ripped up. They can do it over two days to give a chance to move stuff from one side to the other. Carpet tiles are going in.
So that's a few days down time, and crap load of time to resetup the benches and shelves.
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That's great they'll do it in phases. At least you won't have to move everything completely out of the space. :-+
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That's great they'll do it in phases. At least you won't have to move everything completely out of the space. :-+
Yeah, that would literally take several days, each way.
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I think they would have done this sort of thing before...
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Just had a guy come come through and quote for carpet. Turns out the owner didn't have contents insurance!
He owns a lot of property too. Maybe he's of the school that it's cheaper to fix stuff when needed rather than pay insurance.
So looks like the carpet will get replaced, that means the lab gets ripped up. They can do it over two days to give a chance to move stuff from one side to the other. Carpet tiles are going in.
So that's a few days down time, and crap load of time to resetup the benches and shelves.
Any word on fixing the initial problem?
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Getting dehumidifiers in there, fast, is important... it's amazing how fast steel (inside equipment) begins to rust when the humidity is high.
Can he just turn on the aircon?
It does dehumidify as side effect, I believe a dehumidifiers also preheats the air for better dewpoint.
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Any word on fixing the initial problem?
Don't know, that's a building strata issue.
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Just had a guy come come through and quote for carpet. Turns out the owner didn't have contents insurance!
He owns a lot of property too. Maybe he's of the school that it's cheaper to fix stuff when needed rather than pay insurance.
Yep, I worked for a large intl. company which did not have e.g. fully comprehensive insurance for the company cars because the bean counters found out it would be cheaper just to pay all occurring damages instead of paying the insurance fees. Thus, if you own many properties this probably will be the same, as at the end the insurance companies are making tons of money. At the end it is a bet and as long you keeping the insurances against claims/damages which can ruin you, you probably will win.
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This is a choice you can make. In the insurance industry, this is called being "self insured". You are taking on the role of insurer and if you have the critical mass to do this, it can prove worthwhile.
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Just had a guy come come through and quote for carpet. Turns out the owner didn't have contents insurance!
He owns a lot of property too. Maybe he's of the school that it's cheaper to fix stuff when needed rather than pay insurance.
If you own a lot of property then it is.
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Just had a guy come come through and quote for carpet. Turns out the owner didn't have contents insurance!
He owns a lot of property too. Maybe he's of the school that it's cheaper to fix stuff when needed rather than pay insurance.
If you own a lot of property then it is.
Given that this sort of contents cover usually comes with landlords insurance, it's likely he doesn't have that either, so that likely means no liability cover either. A very bad idea.
Oops, I tripped on the carpet, I'll take that other property as compensation thanks ;D
Landlords insurance for my old lab costs $300, that includes contents, rent loss among other things, and $30M liability.
Probably not much more for this unit even though twice the size. Now it will cost him maybe $6k+
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$300 per month or $300 per year?
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$300 per month or $300 per year?
Per year.
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This is what cover I get for $306 a year. $195 actually, but there are extra government levies like fire levy etc that bring it up to $306
You'd be insane not to have this, the cost is a pittance.
There is an 8th one on another page that covers government audit costs
(https://i.imgur.com/DTMpUAA.png)
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Stuff happenes, you make a claim and then the premium doubles?
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Stuff happenes, you make a claim and then the premium doubles?
Yep. It make people think twice about claiming.
Sure, you could claim for that carpet, but ... your premium will be $300 higher for the next few years so do the math first.
Insurance companies are parasites when it comes to small claims. If you own several properties then you're better off insuring against complete disaster (which is usually cheap) and then paying for the small stuff yourself.
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What prevents you from moving insurance to some other firm? Do they share data?
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What prevents you from moving insurance to some other firm? Do they share data?
Of course they do!
Your insurance history follows you around just like your credit history does.
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Stuff happenes, you make a claim and then the premium doubles?
maybe not double but increase. Insurance is, like gambling, about statistics and odds. Insurance companies crunch
as much data as they can get their hands on to calculate their odds and making a claim affects those odds
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Yeah that's what I find weird too. You'd think they would want to cover it... But I guess it's cheaper for them to let you put in a couple claims, and then they can just drop you. My parents had a bunch of separate unfortunate events happen in a row and had to do several claims in a row, and the next claim they do, they are getting dropped as a customer. You get around 3-4 claims max. This is not really something they tell you and it might differ between companies.
this is probably written in the contract as "we reserve the right to change the terms of ... " ? yea?
Probably, these type of things tend to have lot of fine print stuff tied to them.
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Stuff happenes, you make a claim and then the premium doubles?
maybe not double but increase. Insurance is, like gambling, about statistics and odds. Insurance companies crunch
as much data as they can get their hands on to calculate their odds and making a claim affects those odds
I thought insurance industry is all about greed and lobbying, not mathematics.
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Stuff happenes, you make a claim and then the premium doubles?
Yep. It make people think twice about claiming.
Sure, you could claim for that carpet, but ... your premium will be $300 higher for the next few years so do the math first.
Insurance companies are parasites when it comes to small claims. If you own several properties then you're better off insuring against complete disaster (which is usually cheap) and then paying for the small stuff yourself.
But the contents insurance effectively "comes for free" with the liability cover.
Ok, let's say you have 10 properties like my lab. $300/year for insurance that includes contents and liability and other stuff I posted before.
New carpet for that size place is $3k, let's say I claim it and my insurance magically increases to $400 for all my properties (that's pretty extreme, but we'll run with that).
So I used to pay $3000/year for insurance on 10 properties, and now I pay $4000, $1000 extra. It would take 3 years of insurance premium increases before I am worse off, at which point the premium is likely to have come back down because I haven't made another claim.
Maybe you could make an argument this worthwhile, but remember the huge thing is not only don't you have contents insurance, you don't have liability cover or any other cover.
Would you really run 10 properties without any liability cover? If so you are insane. It's not just about contents.
I asked my insurance guy last year who much the insurance costs without the contents cover and he said it's hardly any difference, like 10's dollars.
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Stuff happenes, you make a claim and then the premium doubles?
I just asked my insurance guy and he said no, not for small claims like this there really isn't penalty. He said $6k is nothing. They only care about the huge liability claims.
And if they did raise the premium he said he'd simply look for another one more competitive. Competition is fierce in the commercial insurance sector, that is why it's (relatively) cheap.
We had a liability claim in this building, someone slipped on the premises but strata were not liable because the slip happened in a private parking spot. This kind of stuff is why you need liability cover, and you get contents for free essentially.
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I thought insurance industry is all about greed and lobbying, not mathematics.
Math is very effective at optimising greed! :D
But kind of curious, don't you have to replace the wood legs of your lab tables as well? Pine tends to be quite bad in terms of dealing with water.
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This is what cover I get for $306 a year. $195 actually, but there are extra government levies like fire levy etc that bring it up to $306
You'd be insane not to have this, the cost is a pittance.
There is an 8th one on another page that covers government audit costs
(https://i.imgur.com/DTMpUAA.png)
Even the walls are insured against theft (policy 2), that's one hell of a really comprehensive insurance. :)
I still can hardly believe that there's no damage, as according to Murphy the rain seems to have picked the most expensive corner. The flir cam might be waterproof, but optics tend to be allergic even against moisture, not to speak of getting showered. On the other hand I almost regularly salvage gear from weather exposed dumpsters which is still in fine condition even after intense rain. The rain mostly doesn't get far inside, not even trough vent grilles from printers or flatscreens. So all the stuff that just got sprayed onto from the outside will be ok. Maybe the soldering station needs to be heated up to get rid of moisture residue. ;)
There should be a liability of the landlord or whoever is responsible for the leaking pipe, so no need to use your own insurance. If somebody crashes into your parked car you surely would also prefer to get him pay your damage even if you had fully comprehensive cover. Even under 'strawn (sorry don't know if there's a written form for that) "she'll be right". :)
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There should be a liability of the landlord or whoever is responsible for the leaking pipe, so no need to use your own insurance. If somebody crashes into your parked car you surely would also prefer to get him pay your damage even if you had fully comprehensive cover. Even under 'strawn (sorry don't know if there's a written form for that) "she'll be right". :)
That's not how it work in cases like this.
Assuming the building is designed to a minimum standard then freak hail storms can cause damage without it being the fault of the building strata. In these cases there is no one at fault (unlike someoen crashing into your car) and so you have to use your own contents insurance to cover any damage.
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Maybe you could make an argument this worthwhile, but remember the huge thing is not only don't you have contents insurance, you don't have liability cover or any other cover.
Would you really run 10 properties without any liability cover? If so you are insane. It's not just about contents.
Perhaps the building owner has a liability cover but only when the claim exceeds a large amount. That might save a whole lot of insurance premiums.
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Maybe you could make an argument this worthwhile, but remember the huge thing is not only don't you have contents insurance, you don't have liability cover or any other cover.
Would you really run 10 properties without any liability cover? If so you are insane. It's not just about contents.
Perhaps the building owner has a liability cover but only when the claim exceeds a large amount. That might save a whole lot of insurance premiums.
Again, that's not how it works. Carpet is the personal contents of the owner, it's only covered under owner contents insurance policy.
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Maybe you could make an argument this worthwhile, but remember the huge thing is not only don't you have contents insurance, you don't have liability cover or any other cover.
Would you really run 10 properties without any liability cover? If so you are insane. It's not just about contents.
Perhaps the building owner has a liability cover but only when the claim exceeds a large amount. That might save a whole lot of insurance premiums.
Again, that's not how it works. Carpet is the personal contents of the owner, it's only covered under owner contents insurance policy.
You lost me here. What I understand is that contents insurance costs peanuts so it is likely to be included with a liability insurance. From the lack of contents insurance you seem to assume that the building owner doesn't even have liability insurance. My point is that that assumption may not be true.
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Maybe you could make an argument this worthwhile, but remember the huge thing is not only don't you have contents insurance, you don't have liability cover or any other cover.
Would you really run 10 properties without any liability cover? If so you are insane. It's not just about contents.
Perhaps the building owner has a liability cover but only when the claim exceeds a large amount. That might save a whole lot of insurance premiums.
Again, that's not how it works. Carpet is the personal contents of the owner, it's only covered under owner contents insurance policy.
You lost me here. What I understand is that contents insurance costs peanuts so it is likely to be included with a liability insurance.
Correct.
From the lack of contents insurance you seem to assume that the building owner doesn't even have liability insurance. My point is that that assumption may not be true.
The building owner, i.e. the strata has liability and contents insurance, but that "contents" insurance does not extend to items within individual owner units, i.e. carpet.
If the carpet in the building foyer or hallways was damaged, yes, building strata contents covers that, but once you go inside the door of a unit it's up the individual owner to provide that insurance.
The owner of my unit is not the owner of the building, he is just the owner of the unit I am in. As an owner he can join the strata committee and have a say in the building insurance, but he (and his unit) personally is not covered by that strata insurance.
I know all this because I own a unit nearby and am on the strata committee.