EEVblog member needs your help

[Shock]

EEVblog member Radio Tech aka The Radio Shop (Buddy) recently entered the Caig product competition where the first prize is $1000. The Radio Shop was winning the competition and has 3K+ competition video views on youtube and 8K+ channel subscribers.

Until...

Another entrant with only 260 video views and less than 40 subscribers seems to be building himself the lion share of votes in the competition.

The competition ends in just under a couple of weeks so time is running out...
Lets see if we can help someone who genuinely uses the Caig products and is fostering goodwill in the electronics community.

If you want to help vote here ===> https://caig.com/video-contest-2018-entry/
View "The Radio Shop" video and click VOTE every 24HRs.

Edited.

[NivagSwerdna]

Are you suggesting cheating?  or is this just spam?

[Shock]

Are you suggesting cheating?  or is this just spam?

Buddy is about to be robbed of his prize. The other guy is doing about 100 per day now. His videos views spiked about 50 or so but then remained static.

Edited.

[Mr. Scram]

I'm saying someone else is probably cheating and Buddy is about to be robbed of his prize.
The other guy is padding his votes with about 100 per day now. His videos views spiked about 50 or so but then remained static.

I don't think mobilizing the community is the way to go. Report the issue to the organising party. Asking a bunch of people to vote because it's someone they know feels a bit cheaty too, even if it's not strictly cheating. This is why I don't like these popularity contests. They're rarely about the content.

[Shock]

I'm saying someone else is probably cheating and Buddy is about to be robbed of his prize.
The other guy is padding his votes with about 100 per day now. His videos views spiked about 50 or so but then remained static.

I don't think mobilizing the community is the way to go. Report the issue to the organising party. Asking a bunch of people to vote because it's someone they know feels a bit cheaty too, even if it's not strictly cheating. This is why I don't like these popularity contests. They're rarely about the content.

Buddy is a long time contributor to the forums and genuinely promoted their products (most people know Caig anyway). So I don't see how supporting a youtuber who puts out electronics content is wrong. I also contacted Caig but had trouble getting through to someone.

This is no different from supporting Daves videos which I do as well. If Dave was trying to win something again I'd support him, nothing cheating about it.

Edited.

[Mr. Scram]

If we leave it to the organizers there is a chance it won't be seen until it's too late. I wanted to bring it to others attention.

Buddy is a long time contributor to the forums and genuinely promoted their products (most people know Caig anyway). So I don't see how supporting a youtuber who puts out electronics content is wrong. I also contacted Caig but had trouble getting through to someone.

This is no different from supporting Daves videos which I do as well. If Dave was trying to win something again I'd support him, nothing cheating about it.

It's not exactly a fair competition when someone has a network of literally hundreds of thousands of people. Other people with equally good or even better entries won't stand a chance. I've seen people abusing company and even customer mailing lists for these kinds of contests too.

[station240]

Look closer at the page, in one corner is says "Powered by Woobox"
Sure enough, its an outsourced marketing campaigns/contests.
So the company providing the contest infrastructure, forgot to add an anti-cheat system.

[Shock]

Look closer at the page, in one corner is says "Powered by Woobox"
Sure enough, its an outsourced marketing campaigns/contests.
So the company providing the contest infrastructure, forgot to add an anti-cheat system.

Wouldn't be the first competition where people have cheated. The way they have set it up is a little flawed. The guy who is currently in the lead is also a "computer guy" so well yeah it would be interesting see his explanation on how he is getting the votes with little to no promotion of his video or entry.

Thanks all the people who are voting for The Radio Shop and Buddy btw.

[Berni]

With these sort of numbers one can probably just do it using a modem without a static IP. Its common for ADSL modems to get a new IP every time they connect and the pool of IPs tends to be pretty big.

So all you need to do is reboot the modem all day and every time it connects open the page and click the vote button and you can get 1000 votes per day no problem. For someone with programing knowledge likely not hard to automate.

[Shock]

With these sort of numbers one can probably just do it using a modem without a static IP. Its common for ADSL modems to get a new IP every time they connect and the pool of IPs tends to be pretty big.

So all you need to do is reboot the modem all day and every time it connects open the page and click the vote button and you can get 1000 votes per day no problem. For someone with programing knowledge likely not hard to automate.

If Buddy gets say another 200 votes (coming legitimately by social reach) in a 24hr period. Then this other guy suddenly jumps 300 votes to beat him, I'm no statistician but that is going to look fairly incriminating of someone vote padding.

There is only 130 votes in it at the moment with The Radio Shop (Buddy) on 1136 and gaining ground towards the 1266 lead.

[ogden]

With these sort of numbers one can probably just do it using a modem without a static IP. Its common for ADSL modems to get a new IP every time they connect and the pool of IPs tends to be pretty big.

What you say happens only on misconfigured ISP networks. Usually they tend to set "DHCP lease time/timeout" to 1 day or even longer - because don't want customer IP addresses wandering around. After all they have Big Brother responsibilities, you know...

[Muttley Snickers]

I remember when Carlos (rx8pilot) was in the running for a high end Keysight oscilloscope and there were concerns raised in relation to the other competitors numbers, so much so that Keysight ended up giving a scope to each of the finalists including Carlos, the forum members here all got behind him as well which helped immensely.

Similarly, as these two entrants are so far ahead of their nearest rivals and questions have now been raised in relation to possible vote fixing perhaps Caig/Deoxit should consider a similar option, that is if the final outcome is questionable then they should award a grand each or split the prize otherwise they might be scorned for a poorly managed competition. 

[EEVblog]

Are you suggesting cheating?  or is this just spam?

We've seen this happen several times before.

[bsfeechannel]

Cheating is really a no-no.

I voted (just once) for The Radio Shop guy because I like his videos in general and because his entry to the contest is the best (I watched the other videos too). He demonstrates how to use the product, so his video is worth watching regardless of the contest. Check it out:

https://caig.com/video-contest-2018-entry/

We can only wish him good luck and expect that Caig Laboratories be sensible enough to really choose the best contestant.

[Berni]

With these sort of numbers one can probably just do it using a modem without a static IP. Its common for ADSL modems to get a new IP every time they connect and the pool of IPs tends to be pretty big.

What you say happens only on misconfigured ISP networks. Usually they tend to set "DHCP lease time/timeout" to 1 day or even longer - because don't want customer IP addresses wandering around. After all they have Big Brother responsibilities, you know...

10 years ago when i still had ADSL it worked for 2 largest ISPs here in Slovenia where i had my internet. Every time i wanted a new IP i just had to reboot the modem.

In fact one of the ISPs even forced you to hop IPs because every 24h the IP lease would expire and it would give you a new different one rather than just extending your existing lease. Only reason i noticed it is because services that hold connections open have to reconnect when the IP changes. If you didn't like that you needed to pay extra to get a static IP.

EDIT: It could be to discourage hosting things on your connection, but not sure you would want to in the first place when your uplink is only 256Kbit

[rs20]

"Someone else is cheating so let's cheat as well to make it fair"

-- Lance Armstrong

[Shock]

Latest figures and Buddy is still behind and losing ground rapidly since I checked last night.

#1 1333 (+67)
#2 1185 (+49) Buddy, The Radio Shop
 
The difference was 130 now it's up to 148.

[Muttley Snickers]

There aren't any rules as far as I can see so we could probably run a muck if we wanted. I just looked again from a different computer and the link to the Woobox Official Rules at the bottom of the contest page is still completely blank. Are people required to sign up and log in before being able to view these official rules or something ?.   

Official Rules Page.   
https://woobox.com/c469kr/rules

[Shock]

There aren't any rules as far as I can see so we could probably run a muck if we wanted. I just looked again from a different computer and the link to the Woobox Official Rules at the bottom of the contest page is still completely blank. Are people required to sign up and log in before being able to view these official rules or something ?.   

Official Rules Page.   
https://woobox.com/c469kr/rules

https://caig.com/video-contest-terms-conditions/
Not that I read them I just voted, it says you can vote every 24hrs.

Actually it says: "Videomakers and third parties may tell their customers, friends, and neighbors about the competition and direct them to our website." this makes sense as it is a social media type competition anyway.

I should be able to vote again sometime tonight.

[Mr. Scram]

That means the other guy may not be cheating. Mobilising people without them seeing the video is fair game. We don't know how large his network is.

[Shock]

If we could get Buddy a solid 200 legitimate votes in a short space of time then it forces the other persons hand.
But the gaps has widened now to 157. So unless people band behind The Radio Shop video (Buddy) and vote every 24hrs it's not going to happen.

About 10 more days to run, it ends on the 1st of October.

Edited.

[Radio Tech]

Thanks for bringing this up Shock.
It is most appreciated.

First of all there were two guys cheating. They were both removed the the contest. I will not mention any names.

As far as the rules you can vote every 24 hours on multiple networks. (Home IP, cellular device)

The guy that is ahead of me only started gaining votes a month a go. I contacted  Viva at Caigs Labs as I thought he may be another cheater..
Told me the guy has legit votes, He is an admin for a very large audio group on facebook. Over 44k followers.

I do not think I have a chance on that.

Buddy AKA The Radio Shop

[Shock]

The guy that is ahead of me only started gaining votes a month a go. I contacted  Viva at Caigs Labs as I thought he may be another cheater.. Told me the guy has legit votes, He is an admin for a very large audio group on facebook. Over 44k followers. I do not think I have a chance on that.

Thanks Buddy, glad I wasn't the only one who thought it was suspicious. That makes a little more sense, there were a few things that didn't add up especially how he was able to jump in votes so dramatically, several of his accounts show only handful of contacts.

[Radio Tech]

The guy that is ahead of me only started gaining votes a month a go. I contacted  Viva at Caigs Labs as I thought he may be another cheater.. Told me the guy has legit votes, He is an admin for a very large audio group on facebook. Over 44k followers. I do not think I have a chance on that.

Thanks Buddy, glad I wasn't the only one who thought it was suspicious. That makes a little more sense, there were a few things that didn't add up especially how he was able to jump in votes so dramatically, several of his accounts show only handful of contacts.

Yes it was strange to me as I saw two other guys jumped me quite fast at the beginning of the contest.  It was determined by Caigs staff that they were using IP proxies to cast votes.  SO CHEATING IS BEING MONITORED. When this guy jumped from the bottom to ahead of me I contacted them. That is when I found he had a very large group of followers on facebook.

As I do not do other social media I only have my video on YouTube and also in the other blog section of this forum.  In reality I feel pretty good on how well I have done in this contest,  that being the small YouTube channel that I am.

Lets also not forget Alan, w2aew is in the contest also sitting at 63 votes. I have even voted for him many times myself due to I rather see someone that contributes on the YouTube community to win instead of someone on a semi private network to win.

Anyway, it is all Dave Jones fault.    He is the one that really got me started in YouTube. And I thank him for that. Good on you mate 

[Shock]

Ok well here are the other interesting things I noticed.

I first wrote down his youtube views at 260 a few days back and then posted this thread.
His views have since grown to 371. I doubt if anyone is actually even watching his videos but us.

I discovered yesterday reading the faq it states:

"Upload your demonstration video using DeoxIT® on YouTube."
"Can I use any music in my video?" "No. You must have obtained and be able to prove that you have all the necessary rights to the music in your film. Creative commons licenses will not be accepted and do not prove that you have the rights to the music on your film."

Not only does his video not give any actual demonstration.
There is a mere 8 seconds of actual video in it, and it repeats twice.
There is also 23 seconds of music at end.

It would be interesting some internet sleuths could find out if the whole video was made up from others photos and video.

[Shock]

Oh now I see how they were getting so many votes he is telling people how they can cheat. Buddy or someone please take additional screenshots of this.

[Radio Tech]

Yep, saw that, but they say it is completely legit.  As some mobile devices can change from tower to tower in bigger cities.  Not for us here in NC.

Yes, I watched his video, and watched it again.    
It only shows that who that has the most followers and constantly pound on them are the ones that will win.
In my follow up video I told folks to vote on the best video. There are a lot of folks out there that hold more knowledge than I.

[Shock]

Yep, saw that, but they say it is completely legit.  As some mobile devices can change from tower to tower in bigger cities.  Not for us here in NC.

Yes, I watched his video, and watched it again.    
It only shows that who that has the most followers and constantly pound on them are the ones that will win.
In my follow up video I told folks to vote on the best video. There are a lot of folks out there that hold more knowledge than I.

Yeah I know it's not your style Buddy.

Competing with someone who is telling everyone that they can potentially vote multiple times a day, who doesn't even make a demonstration video to begin with, who flies past you and makes it impossible to catch up, just sucks. For all we know he is just voting for himself dozens of times.

[Radio Tech]

Thanks. And doing the numbers shows there is no way I can catch up and beat this guy.

But I will say this.
I posted my video in the other blog forum here on August 24th. And I know that forum only gets a small amount of views here. Yes I could have posted it in the General chat forum but chose not to. My thread there gained 2 replies and 630 views. I know I gained a few votes from it.

You posted this thread 2 days ago and has 868 views and 26 replies. Big difference. I noticed yesterday I gained a lot more votes than what I was normally getting.
I did not know about this thread until today.  Thanks for your contribution.

With that being said if I was to win this contest I will know why.  Yes I know I have a few followers here. But will mainly be because of this thread.

So if I win I will be because of the folks here.

[Radio Tech]

We've seen this happen several times before.

Cheating? Or spam? Just curious as this is the first contest I have ever entered.
As far as the latter is why I do not post that many of my videos here. no need in wasting bandwidth with stuff folks will not watch.  Plus every time I do I feel like I am only "self promoting" my channel.

[Radio Tech]

I remember when Carlos (rx8pilot) was in the running for a high end Keysight oscilloscope and there were concerns raised in relation to the other competitors numbers, so much so that Keysight ended up giving a scope to each of the finalists including Carlos, the forum members here all got behind him as well which helped immensely.

Similarly, as these two entrants are so far ahead of their nearest rivals and questions have now been raised in relation to possible vote fixing perhaps Caig/Deoxit should consider a similar option, that is if the final outcome is questionable then they should award a grand each or split the prize otherwise they might be scorned for a poorly managed competition.

I think the biggest issue with the contest is that they allow folks to vote every 24 hours. As far as the other contestants below us they are simply not promoting their videos. Take Alan w2aew for instant. if he would have done a follow up video showing that he was entered in the contest, I am pretty sure with 90k subs he would be leading the pack. His video is very good in demonstrating the use of the product.

Caig knows if you are cheating. As two contestants were disqualified earlier in the contest.

[Mr. Scram]

Ok well here are the other interesting things I noticed.

I first wrote down his youtube views at 260 a few days back and then posted this thread.
His views have since grown to 371. I doubt if anyone is actually even watching his videos but us.

I discovered yesterday reading the faq it states:

"Upload your demonstration video using DeoxIT® on YouTube."
"Can I use any music in my video?" "No. You must have obtained and be able to prove that you have all the necessary rights to the music in your film. Creative commons licenses will not be accepted and do not prove that you have the rights to the music on your film."

Not only does his video not give any actual demonstration.
There is a mere 8 seconds of actual video in it, and it repeats twice.
There is also 23 seconds of music at end.

It would be interesting some internet sleuths could find out if the whole video was made up from others photos and video.

We established the other guy isn't cheating, after having suggested he is likely doing so without any solid proof. The latter isn't very sound form where I come from. I think Radio Tech did it the right way by informing the organisation rather than by casting doubt on a forum somewhere.

Now you're suggesting to take down the other contestant on technicalities. This would be another matter to leave to the organisation, as they undoubtedly know the rules themselves. At this point it all starts smelling like someone who can't accept the possible defeat of his champion. It's cool to win, but not at any cost. It may be time to let go.

[Shock]

We established the other guy isn't cheating, after having suggested he is likely doing so without any solid proof. The latter isn't very sound form where I come from. I think Radio Tech did it the right way by informing the organization rather than by casting doubt on a forum somewhere.

You can never know, I've already said that. The fact he told some guy on youtube how to potentially bypass the one vote per 24hrs doesn't look good and may explain why he was getting such big numbers.

As Buddy mentioned, he has found two cheaters already so it wasn't exactly unwarranted to raise suspicions. Again I attempted to contact Caig (twice actually) and tell them about the voting inconsistencies before starting this thread.

Until I read the faq I didn't even know it was intended to be a demonstration video. If it's a demonstration that other guys video shows me nothing. But Scram you can argue all day with me if you like, it's only my opinion and I'm sure plenty of other people if there were looking at the numbers would think it looked suspicious for the reasons I have already given.

I'm surprised Caig even accepted the other guys submission and it wouldn't surprise me if he gets disqualified.

[Mr. Scram]

You can never know, I've already said that. The fact he told some guy on youtube how to potentially bypass the one vote per 24hrs doesn't look good and may explain why he was getting such big numbers.

As Buddy mentioned, he has found two cheaters already so it wasn't exactly unwarranted to raise suspicions. Again I attempted to contact Caig (twice actually) and tell them about the voting inconsistencies before starting this thread.

Until I read the faq I didn't even know it was intended to be a demonstration video. If it's a demonstration that other guys video shows me nothing. But Scram you can argue all day with me if you like, it's only my opinion and I'm sure plenty of other people if there were looking at the numbers would think it looked suspicious for the reasons I have already given.

It wouldn't surprise me if the other guy gets disqualified and I'm surprised Caig even accepted his submission.

I have no interest in arguing with you. I'm just saying this whole thread smells of bad form and conduct that wouldn't fly where I come from. A fairly feeble disclaimer doesn't really make it better and probably makes it worse.

I'd like to add that's no fault of Radio Tech, before anyone takes it as an accusation.

[Shock]

I don't think mobilizing the community is the way to go. Report the issue to the organising party. Asking a bunch of people to vote because it's someone they know feels a bit cheaty too, even if it's not strictly cheating. This is why I don't like these popularity contests. They're rarely about the content.

That means the other guy may not be cheating. Mobilising people without them seeing the video is fair game. We don't know how large his network is.

I'm just saying this whole thread smells of bad form and conduct that wouldn't fly where I come from. A fairly feeble disclaimer doesn't really make it better and probably makes it worse. I'd like to add that's no fault of Radio Tech, before anyone takes it as an accusation.

I seriously think you're just making this about me now. Personally, I'll happily report something when I find it suspicious. Unbeknown to me people actually had been caught cheating and lets not forget Buddy thought the same guy was cheating as well.

I'll also support Dave and other EEVblog content creators and vote and tell others when I think they are deserving (over an amateurish 8 seconds of video any day). If you don't want to vote or help that is fine, others may want to.

[Mr. Scram]

I seriously think you're just making this about me now. Personally, I'll happily report something when I find it suspicious. Unbeknown to me people actually had been caught cheating and lets not forget Buddy thought the same guy was cheating as well.

I'll also support Dave and other EEVblog content creators and vote and tell others when I think they are deserving (over an amateurish 8 seconds of video any day). If you don't want to vote or help that is fine, others may want to.

This isn't about you, it's about the displayed behaviour.

*Accusing someone of foul play without evidence or knowing the applicable rules. Note that foul play isn't a trivial accusation and should be levelled with quite a bit of restraint
*There's a rather feeble disclaimer to wave away responsibility for this. There's only so many times you can hint at something without it being obvious what you're getting at. A disclaimer doesn't change that and seems what Wikipedia calls "weasling"
*When the suspicion of cheating that's hinted at repeatedly is blown clean out of the water and the participation of the other guy turns out to be legitimate, there's a seamless transition to another accusation of foul play and not following the rules. Here too the wider internet is asked to join in the "sleuthing" to diffuse responsibility

It really doesn't look like helping a fellow forum member, it looks like a smear campaign. It's the elements plus the sketchy behaviour around them that don't paint a pretty picture. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Shock]

This isn't about you, it's about the displayed behaviour.

I'm flattered by the attention, but your wrong in your assumptions about me or why I started this thread. I have repeatedly told you my motivation several times now. To highlight potential cheating and help Buddy from The Radio Shop who is an EEVblog member who was winning.

It really doesn't look like helping a fellow forum member, it looks like a smear campaign.

This has got to be the nicest smear campaign I've ever seen.

[bsfeechannel]

Go, Buddy, go.

[station240]

And this is why I hate public voting for contests.
In theory people would choose the best entry and vote accordingly, but people are lazy.
a) Vote for X as he asked me to on FB/youtube/forum, never consider the other entries.
b) Vote whoever has the most votes, as they don't want to upset anything.
c) Don't have the time/patience to watch the majority, or any of the videos.
d) Use bots to vote, and create multiple accounts.
e) Actually take money to vote for one person, yes I've seen this happen.

Seriously, if each video is say 3 minutes long, then 10 entries is 1/2 an hour, 40 entries is 2 hours.
A fairer system would be to randomly serve up say 5 videos, only after watching all 5, can you choose which (of those 5 vids) you liked the most.
Let statistics take care of the rest, the best videos will float to the top given enough people voting.
Much harder to cheat the system, as you cannot just vote for your friend.

[Shock]

Seriously, if each video is say 3 minutes long, then 10 entries is 1/2 an hour, 40 entries is 2 hours.
A fairer system would be to randomly serve up say 5 videos, only after watching all 5, can you choose which (of those 5 vids) you liked the most.
Let statistics take care of the rest, the best videos will float to the top given enough people voting.
Much harder to cheat the system, as you cannot just vote for your friend.

I ended up watching all the videos when they came out. For me it was between Buddy and Alan who just happened to be both EEVblog members and have great channels. As for the other contestants I wasn't convinced when I saw them going for the phone, tablet and computer etc with a bottle of Deoxit.

I wouldn't mind if they picked their own winner. But then perhaps people would feel less inclined to promote it.

[Muttley Snickers]

I've watched all of the submissions and have voted for almost all of them at different times, nobody likes to finish last and it doesn't cost anything to give a slight boost or pat on the back to those others who also made an effort.   

[Shock]

Buddy is holding 169 votes now from the lead, a good chance of a win if we can bump it up 20 more a day.
Alan looks like he might be able to muster a 4th place win with a little more as well.

I feel like a radio announcer. Only a week to go!
Win it for EEVBlog Buddy, u can do eeet!

[Mr. Scram]

I'm flattered by the attention, but your wrong in your assumptions about me or why I started this thread. I have repeatedly told you my motivation several times now. To highlight potential cheating and help Buddy from The Radio Shop who is an EEVblog member who was winning.

This has got to be the nicest smear campaign I've ever seen.

I'm inclined to believe you really do think you're being nice and helpful and that scares me more than if you were just being malicious. As I said before, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and a lot of history's atrocities have been committed by people who were convinced they were doing the right thing. It's a smear campaign, regardless of whether it's intended to help anyone. Nice smear campaigns don't exist.

[Shock]

Alan is now in 4th place so now into the prize money if he can hold it.
Well done to whomever voted for him in the last hour or so.

Don't let those dirty Audio guys steal all EEVBlogs Caig loot!
RF over HF!
Probes over Phonos!
Solder over Sodder!

[jancumps]

Please promise not to start this kind of thread for me when I enter a contest.

[Shock]

Please promise not to start this kind of thread for me when I enter a contest.

Sounds like begging for attention. See how things can be easily misread.