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Author Topic: Equipment obession on this forum?  (Read 11694 times)

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Offline free_electron

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2013, 10:46:27 AM »
If your laboratory does not look like this then you are a poser with too much equipment  :palm:

That guy has way too much equipment - no way he needs that chair. He should just sit on the ground God gave him.
and whats up with that keyboard and screen 2 buttons is all you need and 1 led.
button one sets a line high or low , button 2 clocks it in. and the led shows the output state.

pff. wannabe
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2013, 04:54:14 PM »
I built a garage to put the skidsteer in. For building that garage I needed the skidsteer.
The garage also keeps my lathe warm, I previously needed it to repair the skidsteer.
And I moved the 900kg lathe into the new garage with the ... 
:-)

Lioving where you get snow a skidsteer will be useful to clear the way to the street when it snows, and if the municipality is slow in ploughing you can make a little money clearing the neighbours as well.
 

Online TerraHertz

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2013, 05:41:54 PM »
Nothing is wrong with collecting test equipment simply because it's beautiful, with no pressing need to actually use it. There's a spectrum of valid reasons, from 'I must have X, because my livelihood depends on it', right through to the technological equivalent of stamp collecting. There's no 'wrong' when you're spending your own money on something you like, and it does no one any harm.

Personally I buy gear for reasons right across the range. Much of it is for specific projects. Some I acquire because when I was young and poor, access to such things was just a dream. Some things because they're cool, and _maybe_ will be useful for something I have in mind to do in future. Remember that with obscure test gear, opportunity can be a strong argument - you may never see another one so easily available to you. A recent example being the HP Q-meter I bought. http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(au)-ebay-hewlett-packard-34401a-multimeter/msg192715/#msg192715

'Stamp collecting' equipment buying is something I try to avoid. But every now and then enthusiasm overcomes that resolution. So what?

As for Aspergers, a grief counselor I was seeing a few years ago suggested I might fit this syndrome. But I don't know... Not that it's important, but I suspect there's an overlap of Aspie syndrome, and what you get when an intelligent person just decides to try and minimize the number of standard cognitive biases they suffer from. See the Wiki list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biases_in_judgment_and_decision_making
The problem is, most people's thinking is so fundamentally faulty, that anyone who tries to do better ends up seeming 'strange' to the 'normal' person. When someone figures out in their pre-teens that a lot of common assumptions, beliefs and social mores are irrational garbage, and tries to make a habit of constructing a more sensible personal philosophy, there's going to be some visible effects.

Rephrased, I believe several of the indicators of Aspergers can be the result of innate character, OR the result of deliberate choice of approach to life.

An interesting doc I found on Asperger's, saved here: http://everist.org/misc/Discovering_Asper.htm


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Offline jancumps

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2013, 07:43:46 PM »
Maybe be cause the equipment is the only thing most of us here have in common?
One is working on a robot, the other on an amp. Both have a multimeter?
And it is the thing that we keep the longest. Projects come and go. The scope stays.
 

Offline SLJ

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2013, 12:05:21 AM »
What's not to love about collecting newer or older test equipment.
These are both from the 1930s.
Who here would let this go to the trash?


Or the matching signal generator?

How often do you see brass front panels?

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2013, 01:12:57 AM »
Lovely scope. The oldest I have ever seen. :-+
Amazing machines. http://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2013, 01:37:51 AM »

Who here would let this go to the trash?

Me, without blinking. Totally useless old junk. Sorry if it sound harsh , but i have no sympathy for such machines. They are useless (no triggering system to begin with) , clunky, heavy and butt-ugly. It's like making a test equipment out of the front grille of a car.

If it ain't got at least 7 segment displays , led vfd or lcd doesn't matter, and pushbuttons to enter data i don't want it. Dials and scales are crap. The microprocessor was invented in 1972... That's 40 years ago...  Anything that doesn't have one in it to , at least, control the user interface is not worth my time and or effort.
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Offline SLJ

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2013, 02:37:10 AM »
Back then people took pride in what they designed and built.  Engineering was a combination of functional, long lasting designs and art.  That scope and generator still work.  Granted they are worthless for servicing todays equipment but they are a part of electronics history.  Pretty much everything now is built to maybe last the warranty period and designed to be replaced in just a few years.  There is no pride in manufacturing serviceable, long lasting equipment anymore, just pack as many features in as cheaply as possible so you can and still make a high profit.  I doubt any of the new plastic digital stuff will still be working in 80 years.

I'm afraid that many of todays engineers are use to buying cheaply made, unserviceable, disposable equipment and have now grown up never knowing anything different.  What do you think they will design?  Everything is strictly profit driven now.   When you take the pride out of it you get junk.   Sad.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 02:52:22 AM by SLJ »
 

Offline jeroen74

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2013, 02:52:07 AM »
But in 80 years current equipment is most likely just as worthless junk as that 1930s scope is now. And why would equipment need to last that long? There is totally no point in that, only to increase the price needlessly. Ten to twenty years is, from an engineering standpoint more then enough. Equipment gets written off and replaced after 10-15 years. If any repairs are needed they are either no longer possible or so expensive it's no longer economical and money is better spent on modern equipment.
 

Offline SLJ

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2013, 03:07:14 AM »
It does not need to last that long but there is a lot being manufactured today that won't even last it's warranty period. From what I've seen, more than half of the test equipment manufactured today will not last. 10 years would be pushing it.  Look at meters.  They are spewing out DMMs for just a few dollars and we're buying them.  They are garbage but there's many now that will buy and use them until they blow up and just keep replacing them with the same piece of crap.  We have turned into a throw away society for consumer electronics and it's now trickling down into test equipment. 

Rant over.

Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2013, 03:14:50 AM »
It is the love, skills, dedication and making the best out of what you had at hand in those days that make these old instruments a showcase. That was and is real engineering. You can still learn from this, you can learn about the right mindset.

Without these forerunners who paved the way we, including the arrogant "it's all old useless crap" engineers, would still sit in trees, making grunt noises and throwing banana peels at each other.
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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2013, 03:25:13 AM »
They are spewing out DMMs for just a few dollars and we're buying them.  They are garbage but there's many now that will buy and use them until they blow up and just keep replacing them with the same piece of crap.  We have turned into a throw away society for consumer electronics and it's now trickling down into test equipment.

It is even worse. You aren't even any more allowed to say that the crap is crap. Go into one of the threads here where they glorify some crap meter and tell them it is crap. The first response you will get is "DUDE, YOU AREN'T GETTING IT, IT IS CHEAP".  And from there it goes downhill.

On the other hand, take a crap meter, start a thread and make a big fuss about how you, a random guy on the internet with no credentials and no standing, reviewed, yes, REVIEWED it. And claim it is good, because it is cheap and looks funky. You'll get praises and high fives all around.
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Offline robrenz

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2013, 03:40:02 AM »
Some of the of the old stuff is an economical way to get perfomance that is very expensive to replicate today like here

Offline jeroen74

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2013, 04:36:23 AM »
Quote
We have turned into a throw away society for consumer electronics

Yes, that's something I don't like either but inevitable given the pace of technology I guess.

Those 1930s pieces look nice to us just because it's old. Back in those days it was nothing special. And it's only the case that lasts long; the paper caps and tubes inside it are total crap of course. Maybe even in its day it was crap on the inside. It's just cosmetics.

I'm quite sure there are enough engineers who put all their love, skills and dedication into making the best of the best; within the boundaries of what marketing allows of course. I'm not sure whether true engineering means trying to make the best possible. I think it's more about designing something that's 'good enough'. Maybe it just that 'good' in longevity terms has been reduced from 10 to 2 years; or planned obsolescence. Which from a purely business standpoint is good.



 

Offline SLJ

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2013, 05:19:09 AM »
Actually, vacuum tubes don't really go bad sitting.  The biggest problem with tubes sitting is sometimes the glue breaks down that holds the glass securely to the base.

I replaced a couple of caps in the signal generator power supply but the scope has all its originals.  If I was going to use it on a regular basis I'd go through and replace the caps but I prefer to have it be as original as possible at this point since it's more of a history piece and I don't expect to use it.

Offline Spawn

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2013, 07:58:18 AM »
It is even worse. You aren't even any more allowed to say that the crap is crap. Go into one of the threads here where they glorify some crap meter and tell them it is crap. The first response you will get is "DUDE, YOU AREN'T GETTING IT, IT IS CHEAP".  And from there it goes downhill.

That is the thing which worries me too [email protected], it is getting rather annoying, you can’t even say it is crap when it is your own equipment. I can understand it is hard to get a good equipment in some countries but it still doesn’t mean you need to be protective about equipment just because you own one. Some are okay to use for a beginning hobbyist, but for professional work it could be rather dangerous.   

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2013, 08:38:13 AM »
Who here would let this go to the trash?

Well certainly not me. I would treat it with the utmost respect!

That is to say ... take it apart and see what can be learned from the construction methods of that era. Then put it back together again and sell it to the highest bidder.  ;D
 

Offline SLJ

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2013, 02:21:07 PM »
Then put it back together again and sell it to the highest bidder.  ;D

Yup, and then you could take the money you got for it and buy one of those new fangled digital scopes and have some money left over.

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2013, 03:44:13 PM »
Heh, or finally get me a bench DMM since I already have one of those old fangled Rigol crushing DSO's. ;)

 

Offline saturation

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #69 on: February 18, 2013, 01:10:40 AM »
This is my main attraction to the forum, bolded below. As for gear, if I don't use it, I lose it.

Collecting is an interesting human phenomenon but I think its best for museums, if there is something unique about an item, it gets a very limited audience when left in a private collection.

Collectors of any type of interest, from electronics to stamps, should insure that someone inherits their stuff to their liking, its properly valued or they slowly dispose of it while they have the capacity to do so before it becomes too late.   A lot of stuff I see valued by collectors come to little in the open market as there are few or no people who find similar value in it.  In which case it ends up in the trash, "beautiful" as it is.  A lot of 'antique roadshow' finds often are in the arts and crafts work, and what's shown in TV is vast minority of items appraised.

http://www.eham.net/articles/5477/

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48775&showall=1


Some of the of the old stuff is an economical way to get perfomance that is very expensive to replicate today like here
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 01:14:03 AM by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline SLJ

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2013, 02:09:56 AM »
Collecting is an interesting human phenomenon but I think its best for museums, if there is something unique about an item, it gets a very limited audience when left in a private collection.

That's why I try to get background on every piece I can, both historical and/or service info and post it on the web site.  I will try to post catalogs, advertisements, schematics and service manuals, data sheets, sometimes even patents if it's a first of a kind, and whatever else I can find on a piece of test equipment that makes it to the web site.   It really would have been a waste to just let it all sit with just me looking at it.  Seems to be working as I get thousands of visitors to the site every month from all over and more email than I have time to answer.   It's what I enjoy doing. 

Something that I did not know before I started posting on the web but there are a lot more serious test equipment collectors out there than you might think.  If you think it's crazy, dumb, or a waste of time don't do it.  Myself, I think there's enough 555 timer circuits out there so I don't bother with them anymore but I don't go around telling someone they are wasting their time playing with one.  You never know what your going to learn from something from the past.


Offline saturation

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Re: Equipment obession on this forum?
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2013, 05:49:47 AM »
This is good to know, having something akin to an online museum gets a wider audience.  If it binds a community of collectors so they are known to each other then there is a potential for successors to maintain collections; one would have to create a succession plan  to insure a collection doesn't disappear.

There is always something to be learned from working on older technology, a question is more of value, in terms of a yield for time spent.  After I repair it then keep it going, is the effort worth it in that its better than what I can obtain today? Or what I learned from repairing it, how much of that knowledge is applicable to what I'm doing today? 


Collecting is an interesting human phenomenon but I think its best for museums, if there is something unique about an item, it gets a very limited audience when left in a private collection.
why I try to get background on every piece I can,...   It really would have been a waste to just let it all sit with just me looking at it.  Seems to be working as I get thousands of visitors to the site every month from all over and more email than I have time to answer.   It's what I enjoy doing. 

Something that I did not know before I started posting on the web but there are a lot more serious test equipment collectors out there than you might think.  ...You never know what your going to learn from something from the past.


Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 


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