First Tesla Autopilot death

[iampoor]

http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s

Looks like this case will set the legal precedent for self driving vehicles, and more importantly...if the car manufactures can be sued! 

[Rerouter]

Care to quote the story... I have no intention of signing up for that site,

[Monkeh]

I'm too lazy to even copy and paste, so here's a summary:

Driver enabled autopilot and stopped paying attention. Car didn't see a truck crossing the highway and tried to limbo under it at full speed. Ex-driver.

[Rerouter]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/30/tesla-autopilot-death-self-driving-car-elon-musk

Here is another link, don't know if it is geo-locked though,

Apparently the car failed to differentiate the trailer from a bright sky, what has me more curious is why the car crashed after continuing down the road, if it was only the windscreen up that was impacted, the ECU's should have still been operating, so this may also hint at another issue,

[iampoor]

Care to quote the story... I have no intention of signing up for that site,

Just updated the link. 

[Monkeh]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/30/tesla-autopilot-death-self-driving-car-elon-musk

Here is another link, don't know if it is geo-locked though,

Apparently the car failed to differentiate the trailer from a bright sky, what has me more curious is why the car crashed after continuing down the road, if it was only the windscreen up that was impacted, the ECU's should have still been operating, so this may also hint at another issue,

Who knows what sort of structural damage it suffered from the impact. The entire chassis could easily have been warped by that. It's also possible the autopilot became disengaged and it coasted (or the pedal was held by what was left of the driver).

[iampoor]

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/30/tesla-autopilot-death-self-driving-car-elon-musk

Here is another link, don't know if it is geo-locked though,

Apparently the car failed to differentiate the trailer from a bright sky, what has me more curious is why the car crashed after continuing down the road, if it was only the windscreen up that was impacted, the ECU's should have still been operating, so this may also hint at another issue,

Who knows what sort of structural damage it suffered from the impact. The entire chassis could easily have been warped by that. It's also possible the autopilot became disengaged and it coasted (or the pedal was held by what was left of the driver).

Yep, especially if the car became partially lodged under the trailer for some time. I have witnessed some accidents that were VERY nasty because the driver hit a trailer an not another automobile.

[zapta]

Either DUI or the autopilot was texting.

[Skimask]

I'm too lazy to even copy and paste, so here's a summary:

Driver enabled autopilot and stopped paying attention. Car didn't see a truck crossing the highway and tried to limbo under it at full speed. Ex-driver.

Driver enabled AUTOPILOT and DARWINISM.
Sounds like the world won overall.

[bitseeker]

what has me more curious is why the car crashed after continuing down the road, if it was only the windscreen up that was impacted, the ECU's should have still been operating, so this may also hint at another issue,

The car's camera is in the top-middle of the windshield. So, missing the top half of the car would also eliminate the vision input that detects lane markers, road signs, etc. I don't know what else the software is programmed to do when it completely loses one or more input devices apart from alerting the driver to take over, which wasn't a viable option at that time.

[sleemanj]

The driver was in the drivers seat, they could at any time have stopped the vehicle. 

Self driving cars are never going to be perfect, they don't have to be perfect, as long as they are no worse than humans (and that's not a high bar to set) that's fine as far as I'm concerned.

[Brumby]

The driver was in the drivers seat, they could at any time have stopped the vehicle. 

Self driving cars are never going to be perfect, they don't have to be perfect, as long as they are no worse than humans (and that's not a high bar to set) that's fine as far as I'm concerned.

While I would like to agree with you, there's one fatal flaw in that logic - and I would hazard a guess that this is exactly what killed the driver.

"... with a Volvo engineer saying the system "gives you the impression that it's doing more than it is." In other words, the car handles most situations so smoothly that drivers are lead to believe that the car can handle any situation it might encounter. That is not the case... "

I have been mildly critical of several technological advancements in the auto industry because they take away some of the demands for awareness of the driving environment and limitations of both the car and the driver.  "Lane departure" warnings are one.  If you aren't aware you're drifting out of your lane, then you shouldn't be on the road.  Certainly, there is an argument that this improves safety - but it continues the myth that technology is a panacea for all situations.

It would seem our victim may well have succumbed to such a level of trust and forgotten: Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it, and that the system was designed with the expectation that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and that the driver is required to "maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle."

While these things may have their strong points, they are de-skilling drivers, which unnerves me no end.  The result of which could easily be that the driver becomes so inexperienced in making decisions that, when the technology cannot cope, they are (1) unable to identify the problem situation in time and (2) unable to take the appropriate action.

[Someone]

I have been mildly critical of several technological advancements in the auto industry because they take away some of the demands for awareness of the driving environment and limitations of both the car and the driver.  "Lane departure" warnings are one.  If you aren't aware you're drifting out of your lane, then you shouldn't be on the road.  Certainly, there is an argument that this improves safety - but it continues the myth that technology is a panacea for all situations.

A similar problem with traction control, you can see people driving foolishly enough to engage the traction control on mildly wet tarmac and seeing it as normal. Without traction control you push too hard and lose traction at a lower speed with more chance for recovery, with traction control the driver will see no problem with driving faster and when they do lose control its at a higher speed with worse outcomes.

In this region its an offence for me to loose traction on a wheel in my car without traction control, while its not an offence for someone with traction control to have it engage while they perform the same manoeuvre!

[bitseeker]

You bring up several valid points of concern, Brumby. I had similar thoughts back when we had the big brouhaha over Ford's SUVs rolling over. One of the reported causes for the incidents was that people were driving SUVs in the same manner as standard passenger cars despite the fact that their dynamics are quite different.

That made me feel like drivers should be required to get certification for operating an SUV. It wouldn't have to be an entirely different license class such as for large trucks, just an add-on to an existing passenger car license. Of course, it'd probably never happen, but is similar to what you're saying about driver skills, education, awareness, etc.

[XOIIO]

Sucks, but it just reminded me of how badly I want a tesla :/

[station240]

From Tesla's blog:
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss

What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied.

Sounds a lot like a sun glare situation, neither the car's cameras nor the driver could see the white truck trailer against the sky.

The customer who died in this crash had a loving family and we are beyond saddened by their loss. He was a friend to Tesla and the broader EV community, a person who spent his life focused on innovation and the promise of technology and who believed strongly in Tesla’s mission.

Also this story which names the driver, and has links to his youtube channel etc.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072634/tesla-autopilot-crash-autonomous-mode-viral-video

[CJay]

Driving without brain, natural selection kicks in.
I never use any auto pilot features of my car, not even cruise control.
PS, one of my coworker trusted his car too much while driving without alert from other sides, then got his car hit by another car*, well, an expensive V8 Lexus wrote off.
*: The other driver was responsible, but he was driving on learner's permit at that time to evade expensive insurance fee, so he received not even a red cent, plus a ticket.

Cruise is nice but of course you still have to engage brain.

Same as Autopilot, I had opportunity to see someone drive a Nissan with all sorts of driver aids, the speed with which she came to rely on them and not her own senses was quite scary.

[helius]

Oh no, not a dead autopilot!

[Brumby]

... I had opportunity to see someone drive a Nissan with all sorts of driver aids, the speed with which she came to rely on them and not her own senses was quite scary.

It seems you have observed that which concerns me.

Add several more such people on the roads at the same time - and it is, indeed, quite scary.



I think I'll be looking at installing a 360º crash cam system .... Any recommendations?

[XOIIO]

... I had opportunity to see someone drive a Nissan with all sorts of driver aids, the speed with which she came to rely on them and not her own senses was quite scary.

It seems you have observed that which concerns me.

Add several more such people on the roads at the same time - and it is, indeed, quite scary.



I think I'll be looking at installing a 360º crash cam system .... Any recommendations?

360 is impossible on the cheap, and up until recently dashcam systems always had one nice tiny little camera and one bulky thing, but a company finally, finally came out with one that has a remote recording box and two cameras on wires, which I've wanted for ages.

Two of those and a couple 32 gig SD cards and you are set. Techmoan did a review, although apparently there are some reliability issues I just noticed on the video which sucks.

[G7PSK]

i find it highly unlikely that the Tesla's autopilot relies solely on optical sensors, even the human eye sometimes has problems in seeing things in certain conditions. 

[rollatorwieltje]

i find it highly unlikely that the Tesla's autopilot relies solely on optical sensors, even the human eye sometimes has problems in seeing things in certain conditions.

It also has radar and sonar.

In one of the articles it was stated that it didn't detect the trailer because it looked like an overhead sign to the computer. Another difficulty was that the crossing was behind a crest, someone on reddit posted a streetview of the location, although the distance between the crossing and the top didn't seem that short to me.

The trailer had no side guards, because for some reason they aren't mandatory in the USA. If it had guards or skirts, it would have probably been detected by the camera and/or radar. Probably wouldn't have avoided the accident, but maybe the car would have applied the brakes. Still, I still find it hard to believe the driver didn't see a trailer crossing the road.

[CJay]

... I had opportunity to see someone drive a Nissan with all sorts of driver aids, the speed with which she came to rely on them and not her own senses was quite scary.

It seems you have observed that which concerns me.

Add several more such people on the roads at the same time - and it is, indeed, quite scary.



I think I'll be looking at installing a 360º crash cam system .... Any recommendations?

Some of the electronics was very useful and added features that stopped a driver becoming distracted, but I would agree, things like lane warning, automatic speed sign recognition, could all add up to a feeling of invulnerability and leave the driver 'disconnected'.

[amyk]

Still, I still find it hard to believe the driver didn't see a trailer crossing the road.

Most likely he wasn't looking.

[zapta]

It also has radar and sonar.

They both have low resolution compared to let's say 3D laser scanners. A laser scanner shouldn't have a problem distinguishing between a truck and an overpath.  They are more expensive though and interfere with the aesthetic design of the car.

http://youtu.be/dYCy7woAzs8?t=20s

Edit: Musk hinting to the radar's low resolution:  Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that the vehicle's radar didn't help in this case because it "tunes out what looks like an overhead road sign to avoid false braking events."   From http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072408/tesla-autopilot-car-crash-death-autonomous-model-s