Freetronics vs Jaycar (IP & copyright issues)

[EEVblog]

So what is your motivation of making open source hardware as a business? Forget about hobbyists who make something for themselves open source the hardware and sometimes they run bigger batch of pcbs to reduce their cost and sell some of them - just for the sake of reducing the expenses of their hobby. I'm talking about a guy sitting there hours and hours making a product, with well done manual for living. Why should he open source his work? You will say if it's not open source it can still be copied. Yes, but they have to make more effort, which could discourage them.

Easy, you just open what you want to open.
I've done a video on that:

[npelov]

Easy, you just open what you want to open.
I've done a video on that:

Of course I watched it. I watch every eevblog video. However it still stinks when you think someone stealing your work. They get a bad name, bad reputation? Well they are going to sell  few less copies of your stollen work. Well maybe you are right. Maybe I just can't get into this mindset.

Btw, good idea of the partially open source hardware!

[amspire]

Btw, good idea of the partially open source hardware!

It is only open if it is sufficiently documented so that someone else can reproduce it. That's the purpose of OSHW. If it is only partially documented then it is closed hardware with a reference guide.

Even if only part of a design is open source, that is very useful to others. If you had a spectrum analyser design and all the analog circuitry and analog board layout was open source, but the A/D and digital stuff was all closed source, it is still extremely valuable. It is not necessary that it has to be all or nothing. I frequently look at schematics from HP/Agilent, Keithley/ Fluke etc to see how they managed to implement one small part of a design. If someone wants to make even 1% of a design open source, that is better then 0%.

[EEVblog]

Even if only part of a design is open source, that is very useful to others. If you had a spectrum analyser design and all the analog circuitry and analog board layout was open source, but the A/D and digital stuff was all closed source, it is still extremely valuable. It is not necessary that it has to be all or nothing. I frequently look at schematics from HP/Agilent, Keithley/ Fluke etc to see how they managed to implement one small part of a design. If someone wants to make even 1% of a design open source, that is better then 0%.

Bingo.
I'm continually amazed at how people cannot understand the value of this concept and actively argue against it.
It's like arguing every company must give all their profits to charity, or nothing at all. There is no value in a company giving 10% of their profits to charity.

[EEVblog]

It is only open if it is sufficiently documented so that someone else can reproduce it. That's the purpose of OSHW.

And how has that worked out in practice trying to enforce that?
In case you haven't realised, it's been a huge failure. So huge that it has forced the OSWH Association to admit defeat, dump the logo, and start again with legal mumbo-jumbo enforcement.

If it is only partially documented then it is closed hardware with a reference guide.

But surely you will admit it's still of value?, potentially of big value? Would you want to discourage this?

[EEVblog]

I agree with you to the extent that it is useful to have good documentation. No Question. But let's just call it that, documentation.

So your argument is basically terminology semantics.
What is your idea for trying to encourage companies to (at least partially) open their products then?

[Brumby]

We've had this discussion before - in great length, depth and intensity.

Can I just post this link - Re: EEVblog #921 - Open Source Hardware Problems Solved!

- so we can let this thread move on?

[Brumby]

We've had this discussion before - in great length, depth and intensity.

Can I just post this link - Re: EEVblog #921 - Open Source Hardware Problems Solved!

- so we can let this thread move on?

[EEVblog]

Companies that seek a competitive advantage by providing superior documentation should be encouraged and supported, and that will happen.

How? What's your plan for this?

[snoopy]

I was at Jaycar in Mulgrave the other day and only two freetronics branded products are remaining out of a large wall of duinotech products. Ironically, of the remaining freetronics products was the kit that has been ripped off !! There's no doubt that Jaycar certainly did a number on freetronics and the only reason they still keep this kit is because they have been caught out red handed.

Is it my imagination that every time I go into Jaycar it feels more and more like a trashy 2 dollar shop ? Next thing they'll be floating their company on the Australian stock exchange alongside all of the other trashy retailers that import everything from china !!

cheers
david

[SL4P]

I was at Jaycar in Mulgrave the other day and only two freetronics branded products are remaining out of a large wall of duinotech products. Ironically, of the remaining freetronics products was the kit that has been ripped off !! There's no doubt that Jaycar certainly did a number on freetronics and the only reason they still keep this kit is because they have been caught out red handed.

Is it my imagination that every time I go into Jaycar it feels more and more like a trashy 2 dollar shop ? Next thing they'll be floating their company on the Australian stock exchange alongside all of the other trashy retailers that import everything from china !!
cheers
david

OT: But for what it's worth, I drive that extra one km to Altronics on Dandenong Rd.
Jaycar is always the second stop if Altronics don't have what i want.
Too many R/C helicopters, and dog toys with LED eyes!

[julianhigginson]

wow.. that's truly awful
Just, really unethical and slimy.

I avoid Jaycar pretty much completely anyway, as there's only so much awfully designed, cheaply made bottom dollar garbage I can look at before my blood pressure starts going up. But there goes the last of my goodwill for Jaycar.

[vk3yedotcom]

Jaycar posted the following on its Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/jaycarelectronics/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

Dear customers. Please note that XC4287 Experimenters Kit for Arduino is discontinued and no longer available. A new and improved kit will be available in the new year for our budding Arduino enthusiasts. Have a wonderful Christmas.

The organiser of the change.org petition has claimed victory https://www.change.org/p/jaycar-stop-jaycar-ripping-off-freetronics-remove-the-duinotech-experiments-kit-immediately

[SeanB]

They retyped the manual, changed the box slightly and nothing else..........