Author Topic: Hard Disk Storage 1985 (Read 11112 times)

helius · « **Reply #1 on:** July 03, 2018, 05:27:20 am »

It's interesting that CD-ROM units were already available in 1985, so must have been introduced at least as early as 1984. Interesting, because for several years after, it was still more common to install software from floppies or tape cartridges rather than CD-ROMs. By about 1991, Unix workstations began to supply the operating system on CD-ROM, and the first MacOS with a CD-ROM release was System 7.0 in 1991 as well.

Whales · « **Reply #2 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:10:16 am »

From various old computer magazines I have read: early CD drives were very expensive, even 1x ones, let alone 2x and 3x.

Anecdotal story about early CD burners: having no buffer or ability to handle physical disruption. The former meant your computer could not be used whilst burning. The latter meant bumping the table ruined a whole burn. All at low burn speeds

Daixiwen · « **Reply #3 on:** July 03, 2018, 07:56:29 am »

Yes the CD rom drives still costed a lot in the early 90's.
My first CD burner was a 2x burner with a very small buffer and Windows 98. Blank CDR were also expensive, and I confirm that I wasn't doing anything with the PC as long as it was burning! The CD burning software displayed a big bar with the buffer status and if it ever reached 0 before the burner was finished, the CDR was toasted.
Windows NT was a bit better with process priorities, and crashed a lot less than 98, so with NT4 I could dare use the PC a bit while it was burning.

rdl · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2018, 12:26:41 pm »

I bought my first CD-ROM in a "Sound Blaster Edutainment CD 16 Multimedia Kit". Best I remember it was well over $500, maybe $600. Just guessing I'd say I probably bought it around '94 or '95. It definitely predated Windows 95. The kit included a pile of software, a Sound Blaster 16, and the CD-ROM. Since I'm a bit of a pack rat, I still have the original box. I think my old Super NES and Genesis consoles are stored inside it now. I don't think the drive and sound card are still around.

Red Squirrel · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2018, 01:48:59 pm »

That channel is pretty cool, I love these retro videos. Also makes me feel old to call it retro.

We tend to take the advancements in computer tech for granted now days.

JohnnyMalaria · « **Reply #6 on:** July 03, 2018, 01:53:45 pm »

My first CD-ROM device cost about GBP250 in 1993/4 as did my giant full size ISA SoundBlaster card.

bsudbrink · « **Reply #7 on:** July 03, 2018, 03:51:13 pm »

My first job out of college was at a startup company putting databases on CD-ROM. We had some of the first Philips CM-100 drives and an original Meridian Data CD-Publisher. We sent our early images on 9-track tape to PDO Holland to be made into "glass masters" that were then reproduced by Philips US. This was before red book, mscdex and the like. We put our own custom data structures on the disc. I remember how amazing it was the first time I saw a machine that could burn a CD right there, regardless of the fact that it made "coasters" (failed burns) about half the time.

bd139 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 03, 2018, 03:52:58 pm »

Hahaha I had one like that. 20Mb MFM drive.

Does anyone remember CD drives with caddies?

Starting to feel old now.

bsudbrink · « **Reply #9 on:** July 03, 2018, 03:58:26 pm »

Quote from: bd139 on July 03, 2018, 03:52:58 pm

Does anyone remember CD drives with caddies?

Remember??? Try "still have"!

Quote

Starting to feel old now.

I'm probably older than you. We need a "gray beard" smiley icon.

bd139 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2018, 04:05:45 pm »

I am ashamed to say that I don't even own a CD drive or CDs or CD player any more. I got a book with a CD a while back and a friendly forum member with the same one uploaded the CD to dropbox so I could download it.

I'm old enough for 8 inch floppies, cassettes as storage and not quite old enough to have to toggle the boot loader in, thank goodness

Agree with grey beard icon

ferdieCX · « **Reply #11 on:** July 03, 2018, 04:21:56 pm »

I learned programming in an IBM 360/44 with punched cards
My first job was repairing Olivetti Audit 6 boards.
They used 8 inch floppies, but the system loader was in a 256 bytes magnetic card.

GeorgeOfTheJungle · « **Reply #12 on:** July 03, 2018, 04:36:08 pm »

Teletypes and punched tapes

After the CDs and CD-Rs came what, magneto-optical drives? Those were pretty unreliable!

james_s · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2018, 05:28:57 pm »

We also got our first CD-ROM drive around 1993-94 as part of one of those Sound Blaster kits. It cost around $500 at the time which was a lot of money, but that was much cheaper than they had been a few years earlier. They existed in the 80s but they were far too expensive for the average consumer. It wasn't until the late 90s that a lot of software started using CDs as installation media. Previously most CD-ROM software ran primarily off the CD itself. Hard drives were far too small so CD-ROM was used for things like encyclopedias and interactive multimedia software that was too large to install on the hard drive. In 1994 40-120 MB (not GB!) hard drives were typical so the 630 MB stored on a CD-ROM was substantial.

Gyro · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:06:48 pm »

Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 03, 2018, 04:36:08 pm

Teletypes and punched tapes After the CDs and CD-Rs came what, magneto-optical drives? Those were pretty unreliable!

Punched tape was the best! Human readable, hand editable and repairable. You could see when it was getting in danger of data corruption and create a verifiable backup. Also great fun to spool up again (assuming you hadn't trodden on it in the meantime!).

It brings back many happy memories.

P.S. Funny to think now that I was using MFM HDDs, removable 14" disk packs, Mag tapes and Floppies in 1985, all concurrent technology.

GeorgeOfTheJungle · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:32:06 pm »

Quote from: Gyro on July 03, 2018, 06:06:48 pm

Punched tape was the best! Human readable, hand editable and repairable. You could see when it was getting in danger of data corruption and create a verifiable backup. Also great fun to spool up again (assuming you hadn't trodden on it in the meantime!).

It brings back many happy memories.

Yes, the best

Daisy wheel printers were über cool too:

And the IBM Selectric, I have one, a printer (not a typewriter) from the 60's, no videos of that on youtube it seems, one day I should do one.

Gyro · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:43:37 pm »

You could work up to a hell of a speed winding it up. It took ages for the shiny callous on the side of my right index finger to disappear... As I say, unless you happened to be standing on it at the same time!

helius · « **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2018, 07:14:01 pm »

Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 03, 2018, 04:36:08 pm

After the CDs and CD-Rs came what, magneto-optical drives? Those were pretty unreliable!

I was surprised to see MO not mentioned in the episode. When the reporter said Bernoulli had competition from optical media, my mind leapt directly to MO; but they were talking about CD-ROMs! Not only that, but the drive pictured uses a tray and not a caddy. Talk about future shock.

According to wikipedia, CD-ROM was introduced by Denon and Sony in 1984. Magneto-Optical drives were first sold in 1985, so it's a mystery why they are absent from this Computer Chronicles episode.

The first CD-R recorders I've heard of came out in 1992: the Philips CDD-521 and the Sony CDW-900E. They cost from $5,000 to $10,000 at the time. Industry magazines noted that Magneto-Optical was faster and less expensive!

Quote from: james_s on July 03, 2018, 05:28:57 pm

They existed in the 80s but they were far too expensive for the average consumer.

The first CD-ROM drive was the Philips CM100. Since this was long before ATAPI, and SCSI was still in a primitive state, it used a proprietary LMSI host connection that was still being used through the mid-1990s. The drive with its interface card cost $1,500 in 1986, which was the equivalent of over $2,000 in 1994 dollars.

Cerebus · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2018, 08:29:26 pm »

Quote from: bd139 on July 03, 2018, 04:05:45 pm

I am ashamed to say that I don't even own a CD drive or CDs or CD player any more. I got a book with a CD a while back and a friendly forum member with the same one uploaded the CD to dropbox so I could download it.

I'm old enough for 8 inch floppies, cassettes as storage and not quite old enough to have to toggle the boot loader in, thank goodness

Agree with grey beard icon

Ask and you shall receive:

GeorgeOfTheJungle · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2018, 10:11:53 pm »

In the vidjeo, that's the same Gary Killdall of CP/M and Digital Research?

bd139 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2018, 10:32:52 pm »

Quote from: Cerebus on July 03, 2018, 08:29:26 pm

Quote from: bd139 on July 03, 2018, 04:05:45 pm
I am ashamed to say that I don't even own a CD drive or CDs or CD player any more. I got a book with a CD a while back and a friendly forum member with the same one uploaded the CD to dropbox so I could download it.

I'm old enough for 8 inch floppies, cassettes as storage and not quite old enough to have to toggle the boot loader in, thank goodness

Agree with grey beard icon

Ask and you shall receive:

I like that. Needs to be added.

The irony here is that Bob would have tossed all the computers from a roof

Eka · « **Reply #21 on:** July 04, 2018, 03:43:38 am »

Quote from: bd139 on July 03, 2018, 04:05:45 pm

I'm old enough for 8 inch floppies, cassettes as storage and not quite old enough to have to toggle the boot loader in, thank goodness

Agree with grey beard icon

I have a pair of 8" floppy drives that I use for bookends. They get a lot of attention from people who are seeing my place for the first time. I wish I had an old 8" HD or two to do the same with. Lots of old time geeks among my friends.

I never used paper tape, but I did use punch cards for a short bit.

As for toggling in the boot code, the first computer I used needed it to be done. Until I added a paged EEPROM storage bank to it and gave it a resident OS. Oh, I also eventually reimplemented the whole thing from discrete resistor transistor logic and core memory on hundreds of 100mm x 60mm cards to TTL logic and SRAM chips using 4 12" by 18" wire wrap circuit boards. Had to retime the whole thing because it was running much faster.

Nusa · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2018, 06:11:40 am »

TI980 minicomputer around 1976. The way it was set up, one toggled in a minimal boot sequence to read from the paper tape reader. The paper tape loop then loaded a program to read the first sector of the single platter 14 inch cartridge disk drive. That in turn loaded a proper operating system and the TTY became the console.

Another minicomputer (Sigma 2) I also had access to had a literal patch panel for the cold boot sequence. No toggling required. Not that I ever had to actually reboot that one.

RobK_NL · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2018, 07:52:18 am »

Quote from: bd139 on July 03, 2018, 04:05:45 pm

I'm old enough for 8 inch floppies, cassettes as storage and not quite old enough to have to toggle the boot loader in, thank goodness

In the mid-90's I worked for IBM in the test/repair/refurbishment department for the 3370 series hard disks. These beasties:

The controller for these was one of these big cabinet things and it took an 8" floppy and some toggling to get it up and running.

Mind you, the 3370 series was introduced in 1979 and had a capacity of over 500MB. later models had over 700MB.

Quote

Agree with grey beard icon

+1

bd139 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2018, 08:07:15 am »

I had a circular saw that looked less scary than that


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Author Topic: Hard Disk Storage 1985 (Read 11112 times)

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