How heavy are these large satellite dishes? (and tips on taking them down?)

[XOIIO]

Well, a lucky star is shining down today, I have always wanted one of these, and here is an opportunity to get one free!  He moved into the house and doesn't want it XD



I'm going to get it tomorrow, not sure what time, the guy is going to call back with an idea of the tools I need. Apparently the tripod is cemented down, I am guessing there are some sort of connections at the bottom that bolt it into some holders, and the legs aren't cemented in.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows how heavy these things are, and how difficult it is for one person to disassemble it. I have a feeling being short might be a disadvantage here, but I'm going to go for it. I've used small one foot satellite dishes for picking up wifi better, I bet this will work many times better. It will also be a chance to crack open the electronics and see what's inside.

Something tells me some people will think I'm crazy for wanting one of these though, lol, I'm not even quite sure just how big they are across, but I'll manage to get it in my truck one way or another.

edit: heh, it would be great to get a black van and mount this on the roof aimed sideways, and park outside people's houses lol.

[Stonent]

Most of that kind are wedge shapes oriented in a circular pattern. So you'll be taking screws out and breaking it down smaller. The outer ring may separate into smaller pieces also. Bonus if it has a motor or servo assembly for remote rotation and positioning. Back in those days changing stations would sometimes involve changing sattelites. 

[XOIIO]

Most of that kind are wedge shapes oriented in a circular pattern. So you'll be taking screws out and breaking it down smaller. The outer ring may separate into smaller pieces also. Bonus if it has a motor or servo assembly for remote rotation and positioning. Back in those days changing stations would sometimes involve changing sattelites.

Ah, cool, if it was in wedges that would be great. I doubt that kind has motors but that would be a huge bonus, pretty neat that changing stations involved changing satellites.

[SeanB]

Standard 1/2 inch drive socket set, and a set of spanners as well. Include 10, 12,13,15,17,19 and 21mm if possible, and take as well a hacksaw with spare blades, a hammer of at least 500g, a 2kg hammer and cold chisel ( often the mounting bolts are enclosed in concrete to protect them) and if you have it a small angle grinder with 5 disks, all steel cutting and probably 2 masonry cutting ones. You will need a good ladder as well as you are short to reach the bolts on top of the dish sections. When finishes taking it apart either knock the bolts into the anchor or cut them off so people do not stub toes on them. With that big a dish you will need help as the pieces are awkward to carry, and you will need 4 hands to hold them in taking them down.

[XOIIO]

Standard 1/2 inch drive socket set, and a set of spanners as well. Include 10, 12,13,15,17,19 and 21mm if possible, and take as well a hacksaw with spare blades, a hammer of at least 500g, a 2kg hammer and cold chisel ( often the mounting bolts are enclosed in concrete to protect them) and if you have it a small angle grinder with 5 disks, all steel cutting and probably 2 masonry cutting ones. You will need a good ladder as well as you are short to reach the bolts on top of the dish sections. When finishes taking it apart either knock the bolts into the anchor or cut them off so people do not stub toes on them. With that big a dish you will need help as the pieces are awkward to carry, and you will need 4 hands to hold them in taking them down.

Well, I don't plan on breaking the concrete, I don't have any sledgehammers or any other large hammers, I do have a socket set laying around. Is the hacksaw for if I was for breaking off the concrete as well? I have one but I'm unsure how many blades.

Also, the second picture I didn't look at, figured it was receiving equipment, but it has a box type thing, something that says VonWeise Satellite Actuators, so maybe it does have the big servos/motors! (it's the thing on the back of the pole sticking out the back.)

[SeanB]

Hacksaw is if any bolts have rusted solid, and you do not have enough force to twist the head off. If you do not have at least a 1/2 inch drive socket set you will break the set. I tend to take along a breaker bar for the socket set as well, as it can undo almost any bolt, or break the head off. I have broken the bars as well, but Gedore has a lifetime guarantee on them. Smaller sets I have broken sockets, ratchets and the extensions as well.

[orion242]

I doubt that kind has motors but that would be a huge bonus

Pretty sure that is a linear actuator hanging off the back of it.

[XOIIO]

I doubt that kind has motors but that would be a huge bonus

Pretty sure that is a linear actuator hanging off the back of it.

Yeah posted that after looking closer at it, I figured it turned left and right, but maybe it just needed to tilt up and down to change.

[SeanB]

That is a polar mount, so the linear motor actually turns the dish to follow an arc. This allows it to track a line in the sky that is the arc at your particular longitude that you will find all the geosynchronous satellites in. Other options need 2 motors with an Elevation Azimuth mount that can track almost any satellite within it's coverage area, mostly used to do things like weatherfax or to track the signal from the ISS.

[XOIIO]

That is a polar mount, so the linear motor actually turns the dish to follow an arc. This allows it to track a line in the sky that is the arc at your particular longitude that you will find all the geosynchronous satellites in. Other options need 2 motors with an Elevation Azimuth mount that can track almost any satellite within it's coverage area, mostly used to do things like weatherfax or to track the signal from the ISS.

Alright, cool, maybe it has both, no way to tell from the image. I wonder if I could maybe use an aurduino and get it to track something like the space station, that is something way more complex than I have ever done before though, and who knows if the space station still transmits stuff that the public can get. I'd probably need a different receiver too.

[Richard Crowley]

IF you want to be able to re-assemble the pieces into a functional reflector, you will need help if you want to be safe. Those things are big (3m or 10ft for C-band TVRO) and they are NOT as light as you might think ,even if made from aluminum.  Of course, whether it uses metric or inch hardware depends on what country you are in (?).

Your main issues will be:
1) Rusted hardware.  Be sure to take plenty of (i.e. duplicate) tools so you can use a socket or closed end-wrench on EACH side of a bolt/nut.  And absolutely take some rust-breaking fluid to make it possible to remove the hardware without cutting or smashing it. 
2) Size and mass of the pieces will be awkward to handle by yourself when disassembling. I would say it is NOT safe to do this single-handed.  Get help. And, of course, take a ladder as well.

If you do NOT want to be able to re-assemble the pieces, take an electric reciprocating saw and a whole pack of blades. You might get enough from scrap aluminum(?) to pay for your gas.

Of course, modern semiconductor technology has rendered those "Big Ugly Dish" (BUD) antennas obsolete. Improvements in transmitter effeciency at the satellite end up in space, and improvements in signal-to-noise ratios for the receivers here on earth (along with digital vs. analog technology) mean that we don't need near the amount of receive signal strength to recover reasonable noise-free signals.

[XOIIO]

I'm in Canada, I do want to keep it in good enough shape to reassemble it, I have a socket set and an adjustable wrench or two so I can get one on each side of the bolts. I don't have rust breaking fluid, and to be honest I'm basically flat broke so I won't be able to by any.

Of course those are pretty obsolete, but a nice big parabolic dish might be handy, you never know, could be good for sniffing wifi from a whole neighborhood lol. If nothing else it will make for some nice parts and scrap if needed.

[GreyWoolfe]

when I have large bolts to break loose ( like lug nuts), I use a 3/4" socket wrench with a 4 foot piece of electrical conduit as my breaker bar.  as TheBorg says-resistance is futile.

[Rory]

Worked on a few BUDs over the years. Here are a few things I've learned putting them up and taking them down.

Mesh dishes are very fragile.  Pad them well when you transport them, otherwise you'll find they will dent and bend quite easily. Remember, even minor bends, dents and warpage affect the performance. You should consider building a transport frame or crate from 2x4 lumber and padding materials. This will keep it safe in transit and storage before you put it together. 

Do not try to transport the dish in one piece unless you have a large truck and a wide-load permit.  Ever see a dish alongside the road?  I have.

Take the dish off the polar mount assembly as a unit, use 3 people at a minimum, two to hold the dish while the third removes the mounting hardware. Clear a space to the side so you can set the dish down on the ground before you take it apart. Remove the linear actuator before unbolting the dish from the mount. Be careful to ease the dish all the way to the extreme end of its rotation, so that it doesn't slam down with a bang. 

Measure the distance from the feedhorn to the dish, and record the focal length so that when you build a new feedpoint for it you won't have to fiddle with the mount. When you separate the gores, mark where they join so they go back together in the same arrangement as when you took it apart. You will probably find the j-hook tubes have corroded together and will be very difficult to separate.

Come with lots of penetrating oil and prepare for a lot of frozen hardware. This thing has been sitting out in the weather for decades, the sacrificial plating will have been corroded away on most of the bolts. 

On the two big bolts holding the dish to the mount, it helps to apply heat from a propane torch to get the nuts to loosen.

Watch out for stinging insect nests in the LNB housing behind the feedhorn! 

[Rory]

One last thing. If you can't get competent help, don't even attempt to do this by yourself. A little gust of wind and these things can mess you up pretty bad. 

[XOIIO]

Alright, good tips rory, thanks. (won't quote the post as it's long)

I have no propane torch or penetrating oil, I have a couple of long pieces of electrical conduit I was going to use to make an interesting camera mount with but I'll cut a section or two off for a breaker bar, and I also have a fairly hefty crowbar for anything else tricky. didn't think that the mesh would be fragile, I'll bring some old blankets/sleeping bags.

I imagine the guy will probably be able to lend a hand, if not I have a family member who probably can.

[Rory]

Sounds to me like you're not prepared to do this safely.  Take a word of advice, if you want to keep your fingers, or your friends' fingers, talk yourself out of it.  This isn't something you can do in an hour or so, it will take the best part of a day, and there will be that big bolt that just won't come loose, usually the top one that's holding everything together. This is not an easy job. Without the right tools, and it sounds like you don't have them, you will likely mess up and either get someone hurt or damage the thing. 

There is a reason that you see these dishes sitting unused in peoples' back yards - they are really difficult to safely take down unless you know what you're doing, and nobody wants them anymore, so they can't be gotten rid of except to starry-eyed geeks.  And I have seen them taken down, disassembled, in a pile back behind peoples garages, where they end up getting stepped on, parts lost, etc.

[XOIIO]

Sounds to me like you're not prepared to do this safely.  Take a word of advice, if you want to keep your fingers, or your friends' fingers, talk yourself out of it.  This isn't something you can do in an hour or so, it will take the best part of a day, and there will be that big bolt that just won't come loose, usually the top one that's holding everything together. This is not an easy job. Without the right tools, and it sounds like you don't have them, you will likely mess up and either get someone hurt or damage the thing. 

There is a reason that you see these dishes sitting unused in peoples' back yards - they are really difficult to safely take down unless you know what you're doing, and nobody wants them anymore, so they can't be gotten rid of except to starry-eyed geeks.  And I have seen them taken down, disassembled, in a pile back behind peoples garages, where they end up getting stepped on, parts lost, etc.

Well I pretty much have everything except the penetrating oil and blow torch, I am pretty good with mechanical stuff, if it does seem too risky I'll definitely pull out, I am thinking that it may be simpler to disassemble the sections of the dish then take down the receiver part of it, though I haven't done this before, not sure if that is possible, besides, if I am able to do it, it's something new I will know how to do, and a bit more experience which may come in handy later.

Even if the dish itself gets damaged (which don't get me wrong, would be a shame), I can crack open the electronics and I will also have the motors/actuators for it.

One thing that just occurred to me is how it will be hooked up to power. It looks like it is disconnected based on the length/amount of wires hanging off the back of it, but how are they usually hooked up? I am going to ask the guy whenever he returns my call, but do they just head off to an outlet usually?

[XOIIO]

Alright, the guy doesn't think I would be able to do anything to the concrete anyways, I guess he has access to a jackhammer or something so he can do it himself later, so I can just take the dish and other parts and leave the big stand, won't be able to stand it up I think unless I find another stand but eh, I'll have the parts for now, and the cables are all cut, so sounds like it's good to go.

[janoc]

Also try to not do it on a windy day ...

Back in the day I had the "pleasure" to install a 160cm dish (pretty small, nothing fancy as the one you have!) and when the wind started to blow into the dish, it almost blew me off the roof! These things can concentrate more stuff than just radio waves!

[XOIIO]

Also try to not do it on a windy day ...

Back in the day I had the "pleasure" to install a 160cm dish (pretty small, nothing fancy as the one you have!) and when the wind started to blow into the dish, it almost blew me off the roof! These things can concentrate more stuff than just radio waves!

Well luckily it's low down, and it's been pretty dead wind-wise lately, should be dead tomorrow as well, and I don't have it yet 

I'm definitely going to do a teardown of  the receiver part of it when I a) make a new channel, b) figure out a name for that channel, and c) find a good way to suspend my camera above the desk.

[VK5RC]

Remember antenna gain goes up with diameter but so does directivity, depending on frequency, that dish may have to point pretty accurately, I am about to use a 3m dish for amateur radio earth-moon-earth communication (if it all works!) at1.2GHz, I recall my dish has a calculated view of 3 degrees.
An amateur radio op VK3UM has a really good programme that will do some of the calculations for you and if you want to test your system (pre-amps, focus point/dish squint/ dish feed horns etc ) a good technique is to test against 'cold sky' to 'sun' noise.
http://www.vk3um.com/eme%20calculator.html

There are quite a few Hams who have some good sites about high gain dishes, rotation control, ultra low noise amps etc if you are interested, google "Earth-Moon-Earth" or EME and quite a few will pop up. e.g. http://www.w1ghz.org

[NiHaoMike]

If you have no use for the dish itself, an amateur radio operator interested in moonbounce or radio astronomy might be interested.

[XOIIO]

If you have no use for the dish itself, an amateur radio operator interested in moonbounce or radio astronomy might be interested.

Maybe, there isn't much in the way of that around here from what I have seen though.

[XOIIO]

Tah-dahh!






It took an hour and a half (and almost passing out because I didn't drink enough water earlier since I had some pc work in a hot apartment, spell only lasted a couple minutes), no ladder so I was climbing and doing acrobatics to hold onto the back frame, the actuator was strong enough to give me a bit of support.

They welded the receiver/bar in place, so we took the whole thing down, unfortunately had to lean it on the receiver a bit, but it only broke the plastic where the screws held it in. The guy brought out an impact driver so taking the dish apart was the quickest part actually, lost of bolts, a bit of back pain, but it was pretty damn fun. The big bar was cemented in place so if I want to mount it up a bit I'll probably use one of those  rounded garden surround type logs that are pressure treated and make a sturdy frame out of 2x4's, it will be easier to assemble at ground level, and I would only have it tall enough so that I could angle it horizontally and no further.

the actuator works, it's a fairly chunky 36v dc motor,my 30v power supply can move it fine, the whole length of the bar is 31 inches retracted, 45 extended, its somewhat slow but it seems pretty dang strong. It moved the dish left and right, no up/down motion.

I'm just glad to lean back and take a break lol, I don't know how much the damn thing weighed, I'll weigh one of the sections and the middle when I unload it from my truck and let you know, but it was pretty heavy. (first picture is before it was in the truck)

I am pretty tempted to get a base so I can put it together if I want lol, I might cut the bar off, though if it can go straight up I can put it together and take it apart that way easily, don't know if it can, but it should be dooable with one person. receiver looks fairly interesting, I'll try and crack it open to see the insides, I'll probably take pictures or possibly a video if I can rig the camera up right, but most likely pictures.

I had a moment of panic when we were rolling it from behind the garage, barely past the shed, to the open yard, where it looked like the weight was squishing the whole thing oval shaped, luckily it was just the angle I was seeing it at. There is for sure one finger sized hole but I think that's it, and the hole is right beside, if not slightly under one of the bars. (it got poked by the square frame as we took it down)