Author Topic: How Not to Save a Country  (Read 14288 times)

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Offline pirulo123

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2011, 05:29:12 am »
I think this post is still alive
 

Offline XynxNet

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2011, 05:33:31 am »
Well, it was a strange coincidence, that for month everybody was talking about a dollar crash and then suddenly greece crashed "and stole the show".

What really annoys me is the way this problem is handled. Everybody could read for years in news magazins, that there where financial irregularities in greece and some other southern eu countries, but nothing was done.

What makes me really angry is, that countries like mine (germany) pretend to help greece with my money, but the money doesn't get to the people in greece, but goes straight to international banks or corporations and greece just gets more depts. Why doesn't the eu just cut greeces depts?

Additionally it would be easy to protect smaller countries against financial speculation, if money wasn't borrowed by individual countries but the eu.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 05:36:30 am by XynxNet »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2011, 05:38:08 am »
another reply?! well, this is what happened in our country today (few days ago). this is what happened when you want democracy.. police riot! not the people (who want the democracy, freedom and clean election)...

if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2011, 07:08:25 am »
Well, it was a strange coincidence, that for month everybody was talking about a dollar crash and then suddenly greece crashed "and stole the show".

What really annoys me is the way this problem is handled. Everybody could read for years in news magazins, that there where financial irregularities in greece and some other southern eu countries, but nothing was done.

What makes me really angry is, that countries like mine (germany) pretend to help greece with my money, but the money doesn't get to the people in greece, but goes straight to international banks or corporations and greece just gets more depts. Why doesn't the eu just cut greeces depts?

Additionally it would be easy to protect smaller countries against financial speculation, if money wasn't borrowed by individual countries but the eu.

Nice points well said .
But there is issues that called as Games under the table.

Greece is one of the best customer of Germany for years,  Military weapons - Telecommunications - The largest Airport in Athens !!
LIDL - PRACTIKER -  Car sales - Power tools - even MILK .
Everything available and 40% more expensive that what it cost in Germany.
The rents for buildings and the payment of the workers is also 40% less in Greece than Germany.


Lots of German business man in cooperation with the dirty banks system, was enjoining for years profits that was actually came from stealing...
They was stealing their Euro-partner .
They lead him to great national depth ,  and now you expect the same hands to undo or rescue their victim ??

I will just deny any payment, and I will save my self and the country , that's how we will do it.   

Today Italy become the new target of the Markets,  all the TV press is on fire.
Well if the Italians are willing to join us in the fight, I do not have any problem, I love Pizza too  :)
And Cappuccino .  :D
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 07:16:17 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline gregariz

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2011, 07:31:23 am »
Greece is one of the best customer of Germany for years,  Military weapons - Telecommunications - The largest Airport in Athens !!
LIDL - PRACTIKER -  Car sales - Power tools - even MILK .
Everything available and 40% more expensive that what it cost in Germany.
The rents for buildings and the payment of the workers is also 40% less in Greece than Germany.


Lots of German business man in cooperation with the dirty banks system, was enjoining for years profits that was actually came from stealing...
They was stealing their Euro-partner .
They lead him to great national depth ,  and now you expect the same hands to undo or rescue their victim ??

I will just deny any payment, and I will save my self and the country , that's how we will do it.   

Today Italy become the new target of the Markets,  all the TV press is on fire.
Well if the Italians are willing to join us in the fight, I do not have any problem, I love Pizza too  :)
And Cappuccino .  :D

IMO Greek politicians are responsible not Germans, however Greece is essentially insolvent and should declare itself so, dissolve all loans, withdraw from the euro and get its shit together. Its unacceptable IMO that investment banks are essentially being guaranteed their money today by the ECB, whilst greek citizens are being impoverished in order to do it. I wonder when speculation became risk free? Greed is a powerful tool, even if the investment banks lose their greek investments today, they'll be back in the near future, similiar to argentina. Have you seen the returns on Greek Treasuries? 18%? or more. If investments are now guaranteed we all should buy some.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2011, 08:10:07 am »

IMO Greek politicians are responsible not Germans

They are, they got gifts from the Germans, so to not interfere in the robbery, and they deserve one dark fate !!
But all the partners and friends eventually they will go to jail together !!
 
Have you seen the returns on Greek Treasuries? 18%? or more. If investments are now guaranteed we all should buy some.

Do not buy anything , bonds or what ever, I like to see what happens, if you deny to pay stolen money.   :)
And by the way, Greece is not Argentina , we are more crazy than them.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2011, 12:15:35 pm »
Quote
Well, it is the same in politics: You are expected to vote for one of the parties that have been pre-selected for you to choose from. Whichever your choice will be, THEY win; because they give you ONLY the choices that serve their interests. They will never risk letting someone they do not control get elected.

Well said, George.  This is the same story in the USA over and over again.
 

Online tinhead

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2011, 10:54:05 am »
Technically there is just one global enemy that  called as " Markets and bankers" ,
we had to protect our countries and our homes, from them.

right, like Goldman Sachs ... unfortunately you will always find some corrupt idiots/politicians trusting such companys/bankers
 - it is the small dick syndrome, such ppl just can't stop dreaming of trying to get thing/be someone - no matter what costs.
For sure nobody forced Greece (or actually greece politicians) to join EURO - there was no need to force such ppl
(see above, small dick syndrome), all this has happened before and will happen again.

Some day the new world order (which is support btw.) organization will manage to "force" all of us to be part of
one big nation, to have one currency and one big/small (corrupt? no, not anymore - if everybody is cheatting nobody
is a cheatter) government board.

And then ? Well maybe area 51 spaceship will be not an secret anymore, or the Asgard will visit us, or maybe
very soon (2012) everything will ends up with a mass extinction. Who cares, we have no influence on all of
these things anyway - not on politics, not on governments, not on Galaxy disaster or dick size.

And btw, "How Not to Save a Country?" hmm, so what happens if EU will not spend money for Greece,
Italy (next on list), Spain (soon) ...  EU will be gone - a big boom (Goldman Sachs will made trilions on $).
So what, i will have to pay soon more taxes to "save jobs" in Germany to save ppl in other countries
- and if i don't wish that EU will be gone, and i will have to pay more taxes to save jobs in
Germany and save others ... right - no win situation.
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline gregariz

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2011, 11:31:26 am »
For sure nobody forced Greece (or actually greece politicians) to join EURO - there was no need to force such ppl
(see above, small dick syndrome), all this has happened before and will happen again.

... If you can forget the nasty things he did, when Hitler came to power the Germans were up to their eyeballs in debt without hope of repayment..at least he told the bankers to F*ck off and Die, making the old money worthless and creating new money which he had sole control of, and allowed only by/for use of the German people ie no more private capital. It fixed the problem.
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2011, 01:14:42 pm »
[... ]
If you can forget the nasty things he did, when Hitler came to power the Germans were up to their eyeballs in debt without hope of repayment..at least he told the bankers to F*ck off and Die, making the old money worthless and creating new money which he had sole control of, and allowed only by/for use of the German people ie no more private capital. It fixed the problem.
That is true!

Hitler abolished the central banks and restored Germany to economic prosperity. He clearly hated central banking, which he called The Jewish Lies of Communism and International Finance Capitalism during his whole life.

But, we certainly can't have people look there... So, we teach them at schools his attrocities, avoiding to mention that Father Stalin murdered more than 45 million CITIZENS and Mao murdered another >65 million CITIZENS, provided that Hitler is held responsible for the death of 22 million CITIZENS+SOLDIERS. We also do never look at the attrocities of Eizenhower or Churchill or...
Let me put a semicolon at this point.

We also teach at schools that German economy flourished due to military spendings! Even though it is common sense that every economy invests heavily (>50% of their GDP) in military spendings (which is NOT an investment since it returns NOTHING back) can only sink faster in debt!

Oh, and please, I do not want to read any more propaganda on The Holocaust (tm), since I have personally discussed that matter over and over with two very special people. What makes them special is the fact that they were both prisoners in two different concentration camps in Germany, during WWII: The first one was imprisoned in an English POW camp, just outside Munich, and he was my father. The second one was an acquaintance of my father during those times, who was held in a forced-labour camp, the infamous Dachau, which was nothing more and nothing less than a forced-labour camp; and everything he has told me about that camp is in total agreement with the works of the most famous revisionist historians of the caliber of the Academic Dr. Robert Faurisson. In my opinion, anything else is pseudo-literature, coming from special groups of people with collective interests and a common purpose. Period!

As I have written in the link above,
"If there has been someone massively killing Jewish people, it was no one else than other Jewish people: Please watch (in Hebrew language with English subtitles) and read the piece of IsraelInsider about the Ringworm Children: How the Israeli government (of Ashkenazic descent) irradiated to death 100,000 Israeli kids (of Sephardic descent) during the 50's, using equipment payed by the American taxpayers without the knowledge or consent of the latter ones."

After all, Hitler is considered to be the father of Israel, since he managed to ship almost half a million people in Palestine. He fulfilled the Rothschild financed goal: In 1810, the Rothschilds began to push for a country for the Jewish people, creating a new brand of Judaism called Reform Judaism which would establish a new Jewish country --which is now Israel, after the Jewish Autonomous Oblast funded in the late '20s by Stalin (originally named: Joseph Vissarionovich Djugashvili before he changed it to Joseph Stalin, where Djugashvili in Georgian means "son of" [-shvili] a Jew; just like Saakashvili means son of Isaac. Not to mention Haim Mardochai Kissel, a son of a Rabbi also known as Karl Marx, and many many others that obfuscated their original names to hide their identity...). Orthodox Jews believe for 2,500 years that there can be no Jewish kingdom on earth until the coming of the Messiah; of course, they do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, so no Jewish kingdom on earth for them yet...

Anyway, only the Rothschilds could do that because to create a worldwide movement costs a lot of money. For example, Theodor Herzl's "The Jewish State" was originally called "Address to the Rothschilds." Not to mention the Balfour Declaration of 1917, from the British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Walter Rothschild that granted him the region of Palestine, which starts like this: "Dear Lord Rothschild, I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet"... They financed Karl Marx and the League of Just Men, too. They financed Judaism, Communism and Nazism.

Soviet Union had been in solvency since 1917. Woodrow Wilson initiated then the system of financing the Soviet Union, when Congress voted for a special emergency War Fund of USD 100 mn to prosecute the war against Germany; Wilson sent the 1/10, the 10 mn, to Russia to help the Bolsheviks (that in their vast majority were non-Russian hired guns)! The Banks consider Dictatorship as the best government because everybody is totally controlled. Anyone who would not not pay his taxes to pay off the debt could be even executed, which Stalin did in Russia. David Rockefeller said he was so pro-communist at the '40s because the communists collected their dedts at a point of their gun. Averell W(illiam) Harriman (a Bankers' agent) became a world agent for the Bankers. When Stalin had a nervous brake-down in '42 because of Hitler's invasion, Harriman was sent to Moscow as an ambassador to the Soviet Union (1943–46), but actually he was the actual dictator of Russia untill '44 because Stalin was totally immobilized. The whole WWII would have been collapsed if Averell Harriman hadn't been sent there, to run Russia behind the scenes.


Reading a mention of the "New World Order" in a previous message above, the Ruling Class is more Gentile than Jewish, but the policies are ultimately cabbalistic (Zionist-Jewish), through the Rothschild family. They don't give a damn about Jews, Christians or Muslims and they will organize a massacre of Jews, Christians or Muslims if it serves their purposes. Most of the pogroms in Europe were organized by Jews as a matter of policy. They do the same thing in every country, Palestine included. Attacks on government buildings (9/11, OKC bombing, Waco, etc.) are threats of terror in order to control people. And they let people blame "The Jews"...

Hey, wait! This is an EE board...  :-[
[/Revisionist_History_discussing_mode]
[EE_mode_again]


-George



[EDIT]: Additional information and links.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 03:02:52 pm by A Hellene »
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
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Offline pirulo123

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2011, 03:03:33 pm »


But all the partners and friends eventually they will go to jail together !!

They will never face real justice, the politicians and economists who robbed my country just like yours are giving speeches in Harvard (btw the same school where they came from)
There is no real sense of justice in this context, and there will never be, you can find the reason for that in many history books.

Let me tell you what happened here in Argentina during the late 90' and eary 2000.
The bankers and every financial institution told us to privatize and sell every asset of the state, railroads, airlines, the water supply, the electricity, the oil industry, the telecommunications, everything.
It was all okay for a while, we embraced the free markets, the world loved us and we loved them back, the US even allowed us to enter without a VISA !
And while some got really rich the rest of us slowly but steady started to loose our jobs our schools our hospitals and everything else, we where loured into believe that it was okay because public services where for poor and stupid people. If you can afford a decent HMO then who cares where the rest goes... right ?
During that time the money from the FMI continued to flow mostly into the private sector and politicians pockets.
Don't let anyone fool you that money always falls into the private sector by means of really cheap loans. so bottom line is the money never goes into roads or hospitals, no it's nothing like that, get your facts straight !
One day a smart economy ministry said, "we want to refinance this debt because we can't pay it now", but the interest was too high, and the speculation had already begun.
The banks just loaded whatever they had in their vaults (literally they loaded trunks full of money) and took of for good.
And the next morning money wasn't there anymore!, we started to use pieces of paper with numbers in it and a promise that one day they will turn into real money...
Well... but things got better after a while, they thought exactly what your thinking right now, why don't we just print more of these papers?, ain't that a great idea ?
Our salary was cut by 50%, our houses value was 50% less, and what happened to our own debt your asking (credit cards, mortgage etc...) it whent 50% up !

And a few years down the road china needed more food (soy) we've got some!, well we're doing ok as long as china is ok... so.. viva china !

But that's not the end of the story, because we continue to pay our debt even after an international court said it was wrongfully for them to refinance our debt at those interests.
You know what happens then ? the fine tunned well respected financial institutions sell all sovereign debt to the mafia or what they call the vulture funds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture_fund), and the story goes on....

I'll die, everyone I know will die and a 1000 years from now some humans will face the same destiny... over and over...

From the movie The Hours: Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more.

Pardon my cheap and nasty english  It's because I mostly use it to say "have you tried rebooting?"  :o

Regards.
Pirulo.
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2011, 09:46:14 am »
Pirulo,

Though you were writing about Argentina, you are actually describing the current situation in Greece.

Since the very early 80's the new wave of our --literally-- cabbalistic-indoctrinated politicians of Greece (Papandreou, Mitsotakis, etc.), called Metapolitefsi, were giving away to the people as favors small fractions of the huge loans they had been taking since then. People (or should I say, peasants) did not complain, since they were finding jobs, especially in the public sector, and they did not have to really work for the salary. But no one can blame them, even the more empty-headed of them, since they could not see that their newly acquired wealth was actually borrowed by the next generations: Their children and their unborn grandchildren... Now, that they begin to realise the situation, they think it is too late, since all our media are pushing for the renegotiation of this Odious Debt that our politicians chose to honor when they had the opportunity to fight it. But, fight what? Their own houses? Their sponsors? Or those that let them in power in order to loot this place? It is a fact that NONE of them has ever been punished or even been prosecuted, even though some of them have now become shipowners (literally; it is not overstatement)...

Not to mention the worst of them all, the Fifth Column of Greece that was, and still is, the KKE (The Communist Party of Greece), founded in the end of 1918 by Avraam Benaroya (--yes, I know, not a Greek name...) under the initial name of SEKE (Socialist Labour Party of Greece). It is responsible for all the major disasters this country has suffered: From the Asia Minor Catastrophe and the WWII retaliation losses (of whole villages and countless civilians) to our Civil War (with more than 600,000 civilian losses, which is as much as we also lost from famine (700,000) due to the British blockade during WWII --If we lost all these people to our friends how many others did we lose to our enemies? Well the bad German invaders were responsible for no more than 23,000 of our losses...). Did I forget to mention KKE's involvement in the Macedonian issue? And it still undermines the modern Greek community by creating diversion and pushing for hostilities. Closing this parenthesis, KKE has been selling false hopes to the unhistorical and unthinking desperate members of the flock, just like the other cabbalistic creations of (Judeo)Christianity and Communism have always been doing...

Of course, NOT ONE member of our parliament voted AGAINST the IMF "help." Not one of them, no matter which party they represented or belonged to. Half of them voted FOR the IMF involvement and the other half silently consented to that by voting PRESENT... What does this mean for all of them? What do their actions reveal about them all?

So, this confirms my initial assertion:
Quote
You are expected to vote for one of the parties that have been pre-selected for you to choose from. Whichever your choice will be, THEY win; because they give you ONLY the choices that serve their interests. They will never risk letting someone they do not control get elected.

There still is a viable solution to this problem, since it has not yet entered an irreversible phase. I only hope my fellow countrymen to realise what has really happened and what is really going on before it is too late and the worst come; but I am afraid that I am hoping for something impossible because the lifelong indoctrination of the masses cannot be undone in such a short notice; and we do not have a few generations time in our hands that is needed to undo it...
[/RANT]


- George
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 09:50:50 am by A Hellene »
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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2011, 10:08:33 am »
Of course, NOT ONE member of our parliament voted AGAINST the IMF "help." Not one of them, no matter which party they represented or belonged to. Half of them voted FOR the IMF involvement and the other half silently consented to that by voting PRESENT... What does this mean for all of them? What do their actions reveal about them all?

- George

At the point where the two major political parties had drive the finance condition of Greece,
any one who would say No to IMF at that time , it was like to was sending any retirement gran pap in his grave prematurely. 

We do have an patriotic political party , and patriotic translates to, that it does not accept to be part of international financial games.
And I just hope that with my power and the support of the many, it will lead the country.
In September or even sooner, we will have elections in Greece , and one new political map.
New political forces , new faces , and lots of hope. 
 

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2011, 10:20:19 am »
Of course, NOT ONE member of our parliament voted AGAINST the IMF "help." Not one of them, no matter which party they represented or belonged to. Half of them voted FOR the IMF involvement and the other half silently consented to that by voting PRESENT... What does this mean for all of them? What do their actions reveal about them all?

So, this confirms my initial assertion:
Quote
You are expected to vote for one of the parties that have been pre-selected for you to choose from. Whichever your choice will be, THEY win; because they give you ONLY the choices that serve their interests. They will never risk letting someone they do not control get elected.

Sorry but that isn't correct. In any democracy the people get the government that they deserve. (I did say the people - not particular individuals)
The reason we end up with governments that don't represent our collective interests is that collectively we just cant be assed making as much effort to do something about it as the various lobby groups are. 
The "poor me all political parties are crap" attitude deserves no sympathy those parties and interest groups hold power because people take a why bother attitude while times are good.  The parties are riddled with self interested people because others couldn't be bothered.

The little guys can make a difference and can be heard but wont be if people make no more effort than to vote along the lines they always have.  At our last election Labor tried to helicopter in a candidate by way of a head office favour to the individual in question. The local party membership of mums and dads and little people stood up and issued an ultimatum. If they didn't get a vote on their candidate they wouldn't lobby or distribute electoral material. The little guys won, no rocks were thrown, no bullets were fired.

The problem Greece faces now is that time has run out and restitution will be painful, I don't envy the position the Greek public faces. But any way you look at the collective population is responsible for the actions of their government. That's very painful for many individuals especially those who had recognised the problems years ago, but blaming others never solved much anywhere.
Don't like your goverments actions do something constructive about changing it.
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2011, 10:25:19 am »
[...]At the point where the two major political parties had drive the finance condition of Greece,
any one who would say No to IMF at that time , it was like to was sending any retirement gran pap in his grave prematurely. 

We do have an patriotic political party , and patriotic translates to, that it does not accept to be part of international financial games.
And I just hope that with my power and the support of the many, it will lead the country.
In September or even sooner, we will have elections in Greece , and one new political map.
New political forces , new faces , and lots of hope.

I wish I were as optimistic as you are, my friend, Kiriakos.

But, I am afraid that the game is so badly rigged that no official solutions are of the interests of the people and the country. Not anymore...

If you were one of the Bankers, what would you do to avoid losing such a huge investment? Because they have been investing in this country since 1981, according to the official statistics. Well, I think that the answer to the previous question would be something in the lines of:
"What would we do to avoid losing such an investment? Anything!
We DO NOT lose, since the seventeenth century!
"

I hope I am wrong about that, but I have mostly learned is that History repeats Herself...


-George
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2011, 11:14:40 pm »
The last time that we had to protect the country even with the use of arms was at 1940,
we have not forget the art..

That's the only way for the bankers to get their profits back, they have to come armed !! 
No matter what the Greek politicians will sign on paper, no one will take anything at hand,
other than the stuff that we dispose in the municipality trash collection boxes. 
 

Offline hisense999

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2011, 11:29:48 am »
So if this is crisis in USA, Greece or other country and if is about money then I suggest only to google about position which take JP Morgans and Goldmans Sachs before this crisis.
-----
By the way Goldman Sachs invented this toxic papers which maked a crisis in USA.

Goldman Sachs invented an IT bubble in USA.

JP Morgans invented a way for selling smart papers in my country (some small country in EU) and got from it profit more big than total income of industry there in last 3 years by leaving most of companies with debts.

JP Morgans invented a way to help for Greece before crisis come - of course Greece finished with debts and JP Morgans with full pockets of money and slave which will pay more.

There was not so long time ago also other crisis with sugar which price incrased over 100% in my country - guess what and google this - JP Morgans first bought 1milion tons of sugar (1000000000 kg).


I suggest always keep an eyes open and look around for real problem which is called JP Morgans and Goldman Sachs they are more powerfull than any country and have enought money to buy anyone and do anything.

B.R.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2011, 03:20:32 pm »
Today was on the Greek news the American dept of 14 Trillion !!

I do not fear anyone and anything.
The people will rule this planet, and not few bankers.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: How Not to Save a Country
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2011, 04:49:10 pm »
Today was on the Greek news the American dept of 14 Trillion !!
and i read (if i read correctly) they tried to negotiate to increase the ceiling limit! they (the leader i mean) must have a real gut of balls! :o
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
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