How Not to Save a Country

[pirulo123]

Images from Greece have circumvented the globe many times in the last few months.

Why is the government buying the same recipe the FMI has been selling for decades without any real success?, There is a growing number of countries that have decided to kick them out of their territory and doing fine and growing!

Why regular people believe this institution will care for them?, they are here to protect the interest of the upper class, everyone knows that... I can believe the government turns their back to the same people who put them where they are...

No economic crisis last forever but if you give everything away just to get through the day, like privatizing everything that's just nonsense.

I can't believe Greece is falling out to the same shit they give us in the 90' Back then they convinced us to privatize the state, and later we find out our water, our electricity, our soil and everything else was own by someone else that doesn't even care about this country and their people.

A good friend of mine once told me, if you can't even run a business then how are you supposed to run a country ? If the government needs to privatize the state because there loosing money then they should go away !!!

I just can't belive they're buying this nonsense from the UE and the FMI (last commanded by a sex offender) amazing....
Greece WAKEUP!!!

May there be pace for them.

[Mechatrommer]

the answer is simple. the one who choose the imf is not greece, is not its people. but the one who in power and get bribed from imf people. that simple. the police is their instrument, people and country are the victim.

[Frangible]

Watch for this to happen in the U.S. very soon.  It's called "I want everything, but don't want to pay for it."  Eventually it catches up.

[bilko]

Watch for this to happen in the U.S. very soon.  It's called "I want everything, but don't want to pay for it."  Eventually it catches up.

True for many countries, including the UK where the government actively encourages it.

[MrPlacid]

Nope,  not gonna happen to the US anytime soon. Maybe 20-50 years from now. We're gonna keep kicking the can down the road till then.

[Alex]

Thank you pirulo.

I want to make a minor, yet very important, clarification for those that watch the news but dont live it first hand.

I was watching the news today (here in the UK) live from Syntagma square (square of constitution, central) outside the parliament. There was a lot of teargas/stone fighting between 'protesters' wearing teargas masks and 'police' forces.

The point I want to make crystal clear for international viewers is that these 'protesters' are actually put there by the goverment in collaboration with the police forces. The reason is to prevent peaceful demonstrations by 100s of thousands of Greeks that are fed up with the goverment's uncontrolled thirst for selfish, short term profit. If you look closely, there are 50 or so 'protesters' actually causing the chaos. On the other side, hundrends of 'police' forces with shields, gases etc. It would take 5 minutes to gather the mob that is causing the disturbance, really.

But no, if they did that then the pressure from peaceful protests would mount again for change of the status quo. Thats the last thing they want.

To illustrate my point compare the following pictures. The first three are from the gathering a few weeks ago, and the second three are from today (or other protests, you get the idea). Sorry for the varying sizes, please hold Ctrl and scroll down to zoom out for a better view.









Greece, the country that brought you democracy -or at least the concept- is going through tragic moments at the moment. Not just because of uninsured debt, but mostly reasons that were present during and after the civil war (1945-49) when political parties sought to take power following the second world war. Some say the civil war never really ended until when the peaceful gatherings started. Whatever happens, I am sure something good will come out of it eventually.

[Sionyn]

agreed alex i have my suspicions about these protesters too much the same as the student protest last year if there not directly controlling it there certainly playing games with people.

[Bored@Work]

The moment the Greek stop blaming everyone from outside and their dog, the IMF, the EU, the Germans, the French, Turkey, history, the new world order and whatnot and start looking inside, will be the moment they have a chance to get out of this.

You know, the conspiracy theories get boring. Greece has cheated and told lies to their EU partners since at least the introduction of the Euro. Now the party is over, fess up and pay the bill.

[Alex]

I would ask the clueless to get a clue before speaking please. Thank you.

[Simon]

I really don't see the advantage of the euro. When I was living in Italy they literally bought into it because they were not a stable enough state and so despite being already in debt they paid more money to the eu to get into a new currency that really changed nothing.

[pirulo123]

Greece has cheated and told lies to their EU partners since at least the introduction of the Euro. Now the party is over, fess up and pay the bill.

Correction, first and foremost they lied to their people, and second I believe this was orchestrated by powers outside our comprehension.

Your not implying the UE didn't knew about it are you ? They knew it all the time !!!, the high spheres of power knew about it all the time!, this is how they take over, they push them to the edge to take advantage in the chaos and despair of the Greek people, it's how this nasty business is done... we've seen it over and over...

Somehow I disagree with the idea that the people was living in eden's garden on borrowed money... that's always the excuse !

Don't you think someone knew this was going to happen in advance ? let's put the cards on the table, The country is for sale at the best bidder the same people that brought the country to bankruptcy will now make even MORE money buying half the public service sector for a fraction of their real value.

They are giving up the family jewels and It's going to take them another 20 years to find out public services should never be run by greedy corporations.

The question with these organizations is and has always been, is it moral and ethical to lend out money to corrupt governments ?

[Alex]

Have a look at this video, for the non-believers. See the 'hoodies' on the same side with the police making their way into the parliament building? This day 5000 people were trapped in the underground to protect themselves from the episodes and the 'police' kept on throwing teargas grenades in the underground. This is not the debt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-crIjLFN28&feature=player_embedded#at=84

[pablo]

Same thing happens here in Mexico where there are bigger problems.
You can tell by watching those people, even notice the way the dress . Mostly young men.
IMHO the FMI "helps" countries but their interest is way too high so the country ends up with a huge debt.
As always people in the power take their big share, and fuck the whole country because they are the ones that have to
pay.

The government betrays the people. 

[pablo]

You know, the conspiracy theories get boring.

It's amazing how ignorant people can be. Always existed greedy and corrupt people, and always they will exist.
It's not about conspiracy theories because it's at sight of everyone.
If you can't see beyond your nose that's you problem, but don't blame a country if don't even live in there.

[Bored@Work]

It's amazing how ignorant people can be.

Dude, the Greek currently make up a new conspiracy theory every other weeks. One time it is the EU, the French, the Germans, Turkey, global warming (no joke), the IMF and whatnot. It gets more stupid every weak.

The thing is, it is only Greek's fault and no one else's. They massively lied an cheated when joining the Euro. And that was their own idea, no one forced them.

A first step to fix a problem is to admit that there is a problem. But no, they still sit there and claim they did nothing and it is just a conspiracy theory to bring down the great nation of Greece. Dark forces from the outside at work, and all that. It is everyone's fault but the Greek's. Well, the thing is, no one would even be bothered to plan a conspiracy on the back of a used napkin between two stiff drinks. Because Greece is not worth the effort and not important.

And when the EU tries to stitch together some help, the second time in a row, all they get from Greece is bullshit. And I am not just talking about "decorating" the EU flag with a swastika. The bullshit coming out of Greece doesn't make it easier to stitch together some help and explaining to your own people why there is e.g. no taxpayers money to to fix the local health system, but there is suddenly heaps of taxpayers money to bail out a corrupt foreign country that can't even muster the two words "thank you". All the countries have more than their fair share of own domestic problems for which they would love to use the money, instead of pumping money in the Greek fakelaki culture. Knowing fully well that all the money they now pump in will anyhow disappear.

So really dude, you have no fucking clue what is currently going on in Europe and why countries in Europe are fucking angry about the corrupt, cheating, lying, greedy, unwilling, thankless Greece.

[A Hellene]

IMPORTANT:
[...]
A second caveat is about the most frequent mistake most people make: Please, DO NOT confuse the people of a country (or of a religion or a society in general) with the leaders of that country (or religion/ society/ etc.). For example, it is not the Americans/ British/ Israelis/ Greeks/ etc.; it is the American/ British/ Israeli/ Greek/ etc. government! It is not the Christians/ Jews/ Muslims/ Hindus/ etc.; instead, it is their priests/ rabbis/ muftis/ brahmins/ etc.! And so on...
So, having made clear the usual misconceptions, off we go!
[...]

-George

[Vertigo]

wow you guys are assholes.

seriously, u should  talk to some actual greek people before u judge them.
also do your homework.
if you believe global warming is anything other then a scam you are simply uninformed.
if you think the IMF is there to help people, you are misinformed.

and if you think people riot for fun or selfishness, you need to stop smoking crack!

A second caveat is about the most frequent mistake most people make: Please, DO NOT confuse the people of a country (or of a religion or a society in general) with the leaders of that country (or religion/ society/ etc.).

please remember that even though these are not the same people, one party was ELECTED to REPRESENT the other.
obviously this says something about the nature of that group of people.
either that or you are accusing the election process of being entirely fraudulent.

or to put it another way: the people of mississipi are not racist, just the people they have consistently voted into office
to represent them over the last couple of centuries are....

[Mechatrommer]

yes. the liar are those f*cking "highly religious" individual/group stay at "throne" high up there. their religion is "politics" and "lust of power".
and @Vertigo, when people mentioned about country's name, its actually/implicitly means the government, not citizen/people. that should be understandable.
i know some very good Greek'an, for example... Kiriakos and A Hellene (George)
and yes, our election process is fraudulent. or if not, the candidate gave sweet promises to win people's heart.
just like one president promised to settle the problem of Palestine and war, what happened today, are they solved?

[pablo]

@Vertigo, when people mentioned about country's name, its actually/implicitly means the government, not citizen/people. that should be understandable.
i know some very good Greek'an, for example... Kiriakos and A Hellene (George)

Well Mech i agree, but some dickhead is blaming greeks in here. He didn't mention Greek government.
If you read the previous posts i bet you will spot him.

And this isn't a subjective matter, as Vertigo said:

wow you guys are assholes.

seriously, u should  talk to some actual greek people before u judge them.

[A Hellene]

please remember that even though these are not the same people, one party was ELECTED to REPRESENT the other.

I suppose you mean that there is some actual difference between the political parties, besides their names.

Let me rephrase: You go to a restaurant, where they tell you that they have two dishes to serve you and they ask you to choose which one you would like to be served. What if neither of those two choices you have been given is what you really want? Will you force yourself to order something you do not really want to eat? Or you will you tell them, "Thank you, some other time perhaps" and go to another restaurant that might have the dish you would like to have? After all, you will pay for it --either you liked it or not...

Well, it is the same in politics: You are expected to vote for one of the parties that have been pre-selected for you to choose from. Whichever your choice will be, THEY win; because they give you ONLY the choices that serve their interests. They will never risk letting someone they do not control get elected.

Citing myself:

[...]
Speaking of politicians, they are nothing else that theatrical actors! Theatrical actors of the worst kind, I might add, because people are unable to realise that what the politicians really are is company agents, in reality: They are payed to get elected in order to modify every country's legislation framework in favor of those who pay them; in favor of those who they really work for; in favor of those who actually pull the strings, safely hidden in anonymity.

I am sorry, but this is the ugly truth... To prove my assertion I will refer you to our recent municipal elections, where an incompatible person (Spiros Hatzaras) was simply deprived from his right to be elected, since he was becoming popular due to his stance against the banking cartel. They could not risk to have real opposition (someone they do not control) in power...
[...]

Emphasis in bold is mine.

Do you want more proofs that ALL the parties serve the same master (which is anyone BUT the people)? Just tell me please if you can see any difference during their duty in office AND in the aftermath of any of those six(!) prime ministers we had after 1974 (Karamanlis, Papandreou, Mitsotakis, Papandreou, Simitis, Karamanlis Jr., Papandreou Jr.):


Chart of the Greek National Debt from 1970 to 2010.

Please, note that the period 1998-2004 is not depicted accurately: The debt was NOT reduced. This is the outcome of the "creative accounting" trick our PM Simitis pulled with the help of Goldman Sachs, to make Greece deceptively meet the requirements to join Eurozone. And, ten years later, we are called to redeem this Odious Debt (please, search the latter term; it is more that just a smart choice of words: it is an international term).

Well it is obvious that ALL of them had instructions from above (from those that authorised them to be able to be elected) to skyrocket our national debt. And they managed to do it successfully.

"You can have any leader you want, as long as he is approved (from us)."
That is exactly their game: They will make sure that whoever gets elected will serve their interests instead of the interests of the people.

And, please, do not get me started again on the euphemistical "Democracies" because I have done my homework.
Have you?

By the way, Vertigo, please excuse my boiling blood; I was not meant to be personal or direct on you. I am just frustrated by the easiness most people will swallow whatever they will be served by the authoritative so-called "news."
Does "Divide and Conquer" ring any bells?


-George



[EDIT]: Please, excuse me for the multiple editing of my messages; I believe that it is obvious that English is not my native language...

[Alex]

Dude, the Greek currently make up a new conspiracy theory every other weeks. One time it is the EU, the French, the Germans, Turkey, global warming (no joke), the IMF and whatnot. It gets more stupid every weak.

The thing is, it is only Greek's fault and no one else's. They massively lied an cheated when joining the Euro. And that was their own idea, no one forced them.

A first step to fix a problem is to admit that there is a problem. But no, they still sit there and claim they did nothing and it is just a conspiracy theory to bring down the great nation of Greece. Dark forces from the outside at work, and all that. It is everyone's fault but the Greek's. Well, the thing is, no one would even be bothered to plan a conspiracy on the back of a used napkin between two stiff drinks. Because Greece is not worth the effort and not important.

And when the EU tries to stitch together some help, the second time in a row, all they get from Greece is bullshit. And I am not just talking about "decorating" the EU flag with a swastika. The bullshit coming out of Greece doesn't make it easier to stitch together some help and explaining to your own people why there is e.g. no taxpayers money to to fix the local health system, but there is suddenly heaps of taxpayers money to bail out a corrupt foreign country that can't even muster the two words "thank you". All the countries have more than their fair share of own domestic problems for which they would love to use the money, instead of pumping money in the Greek fakelaki culture. Knowing fully well that all the money they now pump in will anyhow disappear.

So really dude, you have no fucking clue what is currently going on in Europe and why countries in Europe are fucking angry about the corrupt, cheating, lying, greedy, unwilling, thankless Greece.

What a fine example of ignorance and repetition of selected news stories. This is however not entirely your fault. Do bother reading what is being posted here and well beyond this forum with a critical eye, stop being spoon-fed and form a broader understanding of the situation before being so strongly opinionated.

[Uncle Vernon]

Only an absolute morons could believe anything could come to resolution by throwing rocks and bottles.

It's never worked! It never will! And anyone who believes it's a good thing is equally moronic.

More to the point what has any of this got to do with EE?

[Kiriakos-GR]

Alex if you wish to get the attention from the one who called as @BoredAtWork .

You should say something with "Red neck style",
example : stop speaking from your arse !!   

Technically there is just one global enemy that  called as " Markets and bankers" ,
we had to protect our countries and our homes, from them.

The enemy is faceless, and this is why it is undetected all those years.
All that we have to do is to protect our courtly and the life of the few worthy politicians,
so to feel safe, and protect the public interest.
What worries me is that currently many countries have in their governments, a majority of sold out politicians.

There is only one cure, and this called as participation to your democracy...   
Loose some personal time, and get active as democratic citizen.       

[Kiriakos-GR]

And speaking about conspiracy,  in the countess examples that nations worldwide was forced to pay billions,
so to buy American made trash by force, is this one too.

http://icj.sagepub.com/content/17/3/220.abstract

Yes I had to pay and contribute, so some foreign arses to remain fat ,
even with a pistol in my head.
That's how the markets works.

If there is a True Man out there, he must come to Greece today, and take back this trash called as High-End system,
and give back to us the money.
It was payed up front.

Some one made angry the half planet, named it as terrorism, made systems against terrorism,
took the money ,  and now blames the moron who had pay for getting them.

Greece does not have terrorism, and its not a target of any angry citizen of the middle east.
 



 

[ipman]

@everybody: is easy to blame the whole countru in general.
My country did not join yet Eurozone, but we are inside EU. That does not mean that we don't have corruption and the government is correct.
Every country has it's own problems, every case is particular.