How to deal with an uncooperative production team?

[Seekonk]

We had to write a report on every failure that happened in the field.  One day I walked into the test area and saw a couple dozen modules out of the production line that had been unsoldered. This was half a production run.  I inquired what this was all about and the tech said test procedure said to change this resistor if it did not pass.  A transistor became obsolete 5 years earlier and a substitution had been made.  They have have had half the units fail for 5 years without telling engineering. I asked production management to send any failed products off the line to engineering for evaluation. Most products were just thrown in the bin anyway as repair wasn't cost effective.  They would have nothing to do with it, didn't want failed units showing up in production reports.

A number of a product came back from the field. I found bad solder connection in them all.  I wrote it up as a soldering issue.  They argued forever that it wasn't.  It was a wave solder, a board, a lead and no connection.  I don't know what else you would call it. They would never admit to a production problem.

[bd139]

Engineering has all of the responsibility, but none of the authority to fix things within corporations.

I've never worked under a CEO that isn't corrupt or inept or both, of the 15 people.
Official CEO values are "adding value to shareholders", short-term gain, up the numbers now, meeting objectives, organic growth etc. all that MBA bullshit.
Nothing at all about oiling the machine.

I quit if the stress is too much. There's no a lot else you can do.

Hit the nail on the head.

[Smokey]

....so I made an automated application in MATLAB .....

There's your problem right there.  No one likes MATLAB.  Try to pitch to your boss that you need to buy MATLAB seats for each test station!  HA!  Should have used python.  Would have been a hero.... 

[Pack34]

....so I made an automated application in MATLAB .....

There's your problem right there.  No one likes MATLAB.  Try to pitch to your boss that you need to buy MATLAB seats for each test station!  HA!  Should have used python.  Would have been a hero.... 

You can compile it and run it on any computer without extra licenses. Same exact setup the CEO gushed about that a customer provided us for an OEM product we build.

Initial version embedded some python. The product is scientific imaging and MATLAB has some canned functions that calculates everything we need. Peak locations, local maxima and minima, FWHM, etc.

[janoc]

....so I made an automated application in MATLAB .....

There's your problem right there.  No one likes MATLAB.  Try to pitch to your boss that you need to buy MATLAB seats for each test station!  HA!  Should have used python.  Would have been a hero.... 

You can compile it and run it on any computer without extra licenses. Same exact setup the CEO gushed about that a customer provided us for an OEM product we build.

Initial version embedded some python. The product is scientific imaging and MATLAB has some canned functions that calculates everything we need. Peak locations, local maxima and minima, FWHM, etc.

There are other tools (even for that Python) that can do it. But that's beside the point - did you consider that the production guys may not be engineers and not familiar with Matlab? Also the licensing/installation issue point is valid, especially in corporate environment where every piece of software that goes on a workstation has to be 10x vetted and approved before it makes it to the master image and is deployed sometime in the next decade ...

So while well intentioned, it probably didn't help your efforts.

[Pack34]

....so I made an automated application in MATLAB .....

There's your problem right there.  No one likes MATLAB.  Try to pitch to your boss that you need to buy MATLAB seats for each test station!  HA!  Should have used python.  Would have been a hero.... 

You can compile it and run it on any computer without extra licenses. Same exact setup the CEO gushed about that a customer provided us for an OEM product we build.

Initial version embedded some python. The product is scientific imaging and MATLAB has some canned functions that calculates everything we need. Peak locations, local maxima and minima, FWHM, etc.

There are other tools (even for that Python) that can do it. But that's beside the point - did you consider that the production guys may not be engineers and not familiar with Matlab? Also the licensing/installation issue point is valid, especially in corporate environment where every piece of software that goes on a workstation has to be 10x vetted and approved before it makes it to the master image and is deployed sometime in the next decade ...

So while well intentioned, it probably didn't help your efforts.

Uncompiled you just hit play. Compiled you double click an exe. It's all gui based.

[mlefe]

You're probably working the problem in the wrong direction.

If you have management authority over the team (i.e. you are above them in the chain of command--not sideways--and they report up to you), then you can manage that team and get them to do what you want.

If you are not in their management chain, but are sideways, or in a different department, or even junior to their manager, then you are fighting a losing battle trying to get them to do your bidding and you should choose a different strategy. What you have to do is manage upwards through your management until you find a point of convergence with their management ladder (e.g. the VP of product delivery or operations or whatever), and then get the necessary requirements to descend down on the production department from above.

The way you do this is to construct solid business arguments about the problem (cost, quality, time) and show how this impacts the bottom line. Get these arguments coherently expressed to someone high enough in management to appreciate them and then you will see results.

But don't try to fight the battle yourself as a foot soldier in the trenches. Infantrymen get shot at.

The production team reports to the VP of Operations. I was the engineering manager and reported directly to the CEO. I took my concerns to the CEO and was told to stop complaining.

You could try to find someone that thinks like you in Prod and team up with him or her. In this way, you promote the changes from the bottom and with agreement from both sides. 
More interesting than that is trying to understand why you're not being listened to: is it that you're missing something important in your solutions? Is it that they don't like the way you're approaching them? Did you approach the VP of operations before going to the CEO?

[TerraHertz]

How to deal with an uncooperative production team?

Cyanide.

Cuts out all the interpersonal and political bullshit, bypasses management obstruction. Perfect.

[GreyWoolfe]

How to deal with an uncooperative production team?

Cyanide.

Cuts out all the interpersonal and political bullshit, bypasses management obstruction. Perfect.

And much less messy than C-4.

[Pack34]

You're probably working the problem in the wrong direction.

If you have management authority over the team (i.e. you are above them in the chain of command--not sideways--and they report up to you), then you can manage that team and get them to do what you want.

If you are not in their management chain, but are sideways, or in a different department, or even junior to their manager, then you are fighting a losing battle trying to get them to do your bidding and you should choose a different strategy. What you have to do is manage upwards through your management until you find a point of convergence with their management ladder (e.g. the VP of product delivery or operations or whatever), and then get the necessary requirements to descend down on the production department from above.

The way you do this is to construct solid business arguments about the problem (cost, quality, time) and show how this impacts the bottom line. Get these arguments coherently expressed to someone high enough in management to appreciate them and then you will see results.

But don't try to fight the battle yourself as a foot soldier in the trenches. Infantrymen get shot at.

The production team reports to the VP of Operations. I was the engineering manager and reported directly to the CEO. I took my concerns to the CEO and was told to stop complaining.

You could try to find someone that thinks like you in Prod and team up with him or her. In this way, you promote the changes from the bottom and with agreement from both sides. 
More interesting than that is trying to understand why you're not being listened to: is it that you're missing something important in your solutions? Is it that they don't like the way you're approaching them? Did you approach the VP of operations before going to the CEO?

I tried going to the VP but he just smiles, nods, and then does his own thing. There seems to be no communication in this place besides going to the CEO, which seems to do nothing.

The technicians seem to tread lightly. They seem to be fearful of doing anything that would be seen as negative from the VP.

The first step for a solution is to determine whether or not it's useful or fit-for-purpose. I haven't been able to get any input whether it be usefulness, ease-of-use, correct-ness, etc.

The only thing I can think of, is that I put this together in a weekend while the "product engineer" who works for the VP Ops spent four months on an Excel workbook to do the same job. The problem with the workbook is that it doesn't pull data from the instrument and requires constant adjustments that only that "engineer" can do. It makes it take days to QC an instrument before it goes out the door.

It just feels like subversive behaviour.

[schmitt trigger]

In the 70s, there was a very popular song by Paul Simon called: "50 ways to leave your lover".

I'm sure that this song could be updated to "50 ways to leave your employer".

[nctnico]

The only thing I can think of, is that I put this together in a weekend while the "product engineer" who works for the VP Ops spent four months on an Excel workbook to do the same job. The problem with the workbook is that it doesn't pull data from the instrument and requires constant adjustments that only that "engineer" can do. It makes it take days to QC an instrument before it goes out the door.

It just feels like subversive behaviour.

You could do that. Worst thing that can happen is getting fired which doesn't seem like a real issue in your situation. Maybe just have the QC department use your solution and tell nobody in management. Just make sure your name is in the GUI part of the software so you get credit for your work. Let others speak for you.

[Pack34]

The only thing I can think of, is that I put this together in a weekend while the "product engineer" who works for the VP Ops spent four months on an Excel workbook to do the same job. The problem with the workbook is that it doesn't pull data from the instrument and requires constant adjustments that only that "engineer" can do. It makes it take days to QC an instrument before it goes out the door.

It just feels like subversive behaviour.

You could do that. Worst thing that can happen is getting fired which doesn't seem like a real issue in your situation. Maybe just have the QC department use your solution and tell nobody in management. Just make sure your name is in the GUI part of the software so you get credit for your work. Let others speak for you.

The product engineer micromanages QC. So its a no go. He's inserted himself back there and is roadblocking everything.

[floobydust]

It seems you're up against a corrupt corporate structure, and complaining about it will just get you fired.
Remember- "the squeaky wheel gets replaced".

I'd say the product(ion?) engineer is in a conflict of interest, the same person can't evaluate their own group's work.
A real quality system is independently audited and would find that. QC is a separate dept. for that reason.

[Mr. Scram]

What do you have to gain from staying there? It doesn't sound like it's a healthy environment to be in. Don't burn yourself out by flogging an already dead horse.

[station240]

The automated tools were never used, updated designs never ordered, and they refuse to audit the supplier or even do some test runs with someone else.

Did you ever consider this is because not one left at the company knows how to do any of these things ?
It's called brain drain, all the smart people leave (in disgust) while the fools and clowns remain.
Doing nothing is easy, so that is exactly what your CEO and other management are doing.

[Pack34]

The automated tools were never used, updated designs never ordered, and they refuse to audit the supplier or even do some test runs with someone else.

Did you ever consider this is because not one left at the company knows how to do any of these things ?
It's called brain drain, all the smart people leave (in disgust) while the fools and clowns remain.
Doing nothing is easy, so that is exactly what your CEO and other management are doing.

The VP Ops that's in charge of production to make spectrometers made makeup for the last 20 years. I try to guide and help but it's been refused.

[schmitt trigger]

Of the many dozens of memes that make it to one's phone, there was one which describes the situation:

"Companies are like septic tanks. The largest turds are the ones that float to the top".

[tggzzz]

Of the many dozens of memes that make it to one's phone, there was one which describes the situation:

"Companies are like septic tanks. The largest turds are the ones that float to the top".

Or, as I prefer to put it, "cream isn't the only thing that floats to the top".

Of course today's Dilbert is relevant... http://dilbert.com/strip/2018-01-08

Dogbert: "Company rules forbid you from insulting insulting your co-workers. I'll teach you how to insult each other while staying within company guidelines"
PHB: "That doesn't seem possible"
Dogbert: "You should look into getting a standing desk".

[Pack34]

Apparently they're now considering promoting the VP-OPS to lead both production and engineering...

He's incapable of ordering the current revision of parts, ignores supplier quality issues, and refuses to embrace any form of jigging or software to improve build times and quality.

[metrologist]

In the 70s, there was a very popular song by Paul Simon called: "50 ways to leave your lover".

I feel a bit left down...

[floobydust]

"an ounce of image is worth a pound of performance"

Sociopaths have traits that corporations desire and so they climb the corporate ladder very well.
Their ability to not care at all about anything other than seeking promotion and attention, gives it away.
You might want to size up the guy better, so you know what you are dealing with.
I've encountered many sociopaths in the workplace and they are extremely destructive.

[fourtytwo42]

Apparently they're now considering promoting the VP-OPS to lead both production and engineering...

He's incapable of ordering the current revision of parts, ignores supplier quality issues, and refuses to embrace any form of jigging or software to improve build times and quality.

At the end of the day you have to decide to either stop whining and join the pack, that is take the money and shut-up or if you have enough faith in yourself and your beleifs simply quit but with no expectation of some sort of final recignition as a result, just go!! of course this may result in a retainer offer I have known people who have taken it but not me ever! This is a bit like the thread complaining about the company wanting his ip when he is an inventor, it comes down to one thing, put-up and shut-up or follow your convictions and leave.

[Mr. Scram]

This isn't fixable. So either roll the dice and pack up, or stay where you are and take the beating.

[vk6zgo]

This isn't fixable. So either roll the dice and pack up, or stay where you are and take the beating.

I "sort of"  did the latter.
Actually, I got sacked, but they were too dumb to find a replacement, so ended up staying a few more years.
It didn't really get any better, although I managed to slip a few  improvements through from time to time.
I convinced myself that as an old fart, I would be battling to get anything else, but eventually, it got too much, & I quit----this time for good

At a "separating interview" with HR, I was ready to really tell them what a stuffed up show they were running, but bit my tongue, because it might have reflected upon the wrong people,so I just said,"They are very reluctant to change".

"Funny", said the HR lady,"You're the third person in a row to say that!"