Author Topic: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?  (Read 5754 times)

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Offline coppice

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2017, 04:22:37 pm »
That usually means a smaller company, for a beginner.
Small companies are a mixed bag for a beginner. The downside is there are usually a lot less experienced people to learn from, and you will probably be required to do a broad mix of things in parallel, all of which you'll be trying to get to grips with for the first time. This can overwhelm a lot of people, and you may not be able to spend enough time on any one thing to become a true master of it. The upside is you generally get to work on the entire cycle from product definition, through product development and production, to customer support. So, you get broad experience more quickly, which may be a good grounding for moving up the ladder or starting your own company.

Beware of personality issues in a small company. If you have a problem with someone, your supervisor or otherwise, in a large company you can usually bide your time and find a way to move out of that situation. If you have issues with someone in a small company, especially your supervisor, your only escape route in most cases is to leave.
Smaller companies create a lot more jobs, and they tend to be better jobs, than big ones do.
I think that might depend on what you consider makes a job better.
 
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Offline 4CX35000

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2017, 05:12:52 pm »
The larger the organization, the more complicated their hiring process, perhaps?

Also I think engineers (or any technical specialist) if they want their work to be appreciated, is best employed in a business where their work is part of the main product sold by the business.

That usually means a smaller company, for a beginner. Smaller companies create a lot more jobs, and they tend to be better jobs, than big ones do.


I can agree with working for a smaller company as opportunities are greater with smaller companies because there are many smaller companies around hiring at any time, but the downside of a small company is promotion opportunities to work in management or senior Engineer type positions are limited and nepotism can be used to give a family member of a director management experience to improve the individual career prospects and cast aside employees who know the job and find themselves ignored or treated badly when they ask for promotion themselves. When this happens the only option is to leave; but this can be of advantage as larger employers will be interested in the experience gained with the smaller company. That experience will be of much more value than what any graduate can bring to the table and often bypass the graduate trainee rubbish many large companies often require graduates to do.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2017, 08:03:36 pm »
Well put, Mr Coloccia. That's exactly my attitude, with one caveat... the degree and university can be relevant, depending on the job.

For example, I know from experience that if I need an engineer that can choose a modulation scheme or design an access protocol or similar, then someone from the University of the South Bank is highly unlikely to be as useful as someone from the University of Southampton. OTOH, if I want someone that will simply follow instructions, then the University of the South Bank may be preferable.

I agree that degree is important for a new grad, because I want to have a base to work from. In the US, I don't really look at the university at all. I've had world class engineers from well known engineering schools, and I've also had new grads that couldn't engineer a ham sandwich if their lives depended on it. I meant more that I don't look at things like GPA, class rank and things like that. I know that some of the most talented people are highly intelligent, bored with the standard curriculum and simply end up not doing the work to get the grades. THAT'S the guy I want to hire!

I don't disagree, but I'll stand by my statement even for a someone other than a new grad.

I'll add one very important reason to have a good degree from a good university: to get past the naive filters used by HR-droids and recruitment-bots. Neither of those have a technical clue, but they are the gatekeepers :( If they are faced with a stack of 300 CVs, their first task is (not too unreasonably) to decide which 250 to file in the wastepaper bin without reading in detail. A crappy degree or a crappy university is an easy target.

Sensible? Of course not, but that's how the world (dys)functions.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 08:05:16 pm by tggzzz »
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Offline cdev

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2017, 08:18:46 pm »
with the caveat that I am not an engineer (although Ive always wanted to be) I saw an interesting publication recently "Globalization, Engineering, and Creativity" by John Reader that touches on many of the issues Ive been thinking about as I surf the net and read about globalization's winners and losers.

We need to think of where we all are going and what we want to do when (if) we get there. We are all in this together. Its not a zero sum game.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2017, 11:36:58 pm »
One of the big problems in this day and age are that most of the hiring is first filtered through job boards or similar and they are just about 100% based on academic scores.  Back in the day a hugely talented person that lacked the academic credentials could still have a chance if they do well on the interview, but now adays you don't get an interview unless the credentials are in order.  So many talented people that used to have a chance no longer do given the system.


Brian
 

Offline cdev

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2017, 01:00:02 am »
Its just the math, in the environment where little hiring is done, the fewer and fewer decisions that are made become ever more arbitrary, irregardless whether they are based on one system (there are several which could be chosen from) or another.

There are big changes being pushed hard all around the world and there has not been practically any honest discussion of them, probably because they know they will be unpopular with many people in developed countries, especially. But they are determined to go through with it. Basically its the extension of the global value chains concept made popular in manufacturing to services, which are as many as 80% of some economies. In the US, a good analogy would be - think NAFTA for the other 80% of all jobs. Office or desk jobs. Engineering is viewed as a fertile ground for these changes because of the high gradient in wages that despite 20 years of globalization, still exists between North and South. The push to harmonize is intended to lower opportunity costs and make it easier for businesses by making workers more competitive.  (See World Competition Day, etc.) 

Some of the most unfamiliar and potentially arbitrary new rules will only apply when the source of money to do some job (is in part public funds) Under FTAs, often that triggers requirements that a service RFP or similar be tendered internationally. Under some trade instruments (positive list, or bottom up) a list of whats included determines whether rules are applicable, in some other instruments, (top down, negative list or "US style") things have to be excluded, or they are included by default. Even services that have not been invented yet. This also keeps the changes out of the news media.

Anyway, apart from the "everything on by default" scenario, even in smaller regional preferential trade agreements, quite arbitrary "schedules" hashed out in back room negotiations (to see some go to bilaterals.org and look under TISA, the bracketed texts are disputed, and you can see what countries proposed what) ) by and large determine whether international trade rules have potential to be important on a service sector by service sector basis- for services contracting or subcontracting contexts when borders are crossed in any of the "four modes of supply". (Only one or two of them are what we usually think of when we think of international trade in services, so expect a shock from many people, as suddenly big chunks of their lives change.)

https://www.slideshare.net/GitanjaliMaria/four-modes-of-wto

These new rules may often apply even when no international trade is contemplated in that particular case because government policy may effect the conditions of trade, such as market access or discriminatory practices.

Those are the rules that have the potential to create confusion and difficulty. Of course, to some countries, they are also the vessel for a great many peoples hopes, they are the long delayed pay-back for globalization.

Countries are hoping that they will win more than they lose and there are definitely winners and losers. Its hardto say what the impact of the very great many changes being made by these agreements, which inflexibly lock in forever and become incredibly costly to back out of, intentionally almost impossibly costly.

Thats why I personally think they are very ill advised to make so many huge changes at the same time without any safety net for the millions of people who will lose their jobs. (Probably much less so in engineering than in many other fields)

Quote from: raptor1956 on Today at 17:36:58
One of the big problems in this day and age are that most of the hiring is first filtered through job boards or similar and they are just about 100% based on academic scores.  Back in the day a hugely talented person that lacked the academic credentials could still have a chance if they do well on the interview, but now adays you don't get an interview unless the credentials are in order.  So many talented people that used to have a chance no longer do given the system.


Brian
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 01:30:42 am by cdev »
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Offline IanB

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2017, 01:39:50 am »
cdev, why do you keep posting all this bullshit, especially when it has nothing to do with the subject of the thread?
 

Offline R005T3r

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2017, 02:03:49 pm »
I'm an EE student. I am studying EE engegnering because:
1. I like it even if it's hard
2. I want to understand electronics better (and it's one of my mains hobby) even if I didn't have any background on it.

I don't know how the market will be in 5+ years ahead of now (it may well be over for electronics, or electronics may get surpassed by software engegneering). And I tell you what: I don't care. I'm not studying for profit, I'm studying for myself, it's a challenge to surpass my limits and surpass someone I know... If you want to become rich, probably university is probably not suited for you: get into entrepreneurship and investment once you have the money, if you are smart, in 15 years, you will alredy have 1 million dollars... My uncle did that, and he didn't even had a bachelor's degree!
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: How tough is it for a fresh grad to get first job in Engineering?
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2017, 03:43:15 pm »
These are all the best reasons to go into electronics. People who enjoy something like electronics a lot - enough to spend their "time off" doing it too, IMHO will quite likely also be successful at it.



Quote from: R005T3r on Today at 08:03:49
I'm an EE student. I am studying EE engegnering because:
1. I like it even if it's hard
2. I want to understand electronics better (and it's one of my mains hobby) even if I didn't have any background on it.

I don't know how the market will be in 5+ years ahead of now (it may well be over for electronics, or electronics may get surpassed by software engegneering). And I tell you what: I don't care. I'm not studying for profit, I'm studying for myself, it's a challenge to surpass my limits and surpass someone I know... If you want to become rich, probably university is probably not suited for you: get into entrepreneurship and investment once you have the money, if you are smart, in 15 years, you will alredy have 1 million dollars... My uncle did that, and he didn't even had a bachelor's degree!
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 


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