Author Topic: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry  (Read 43201 times)

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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2018, 05:57:00 am »
OK, so China is going to execute a Canadian national because ... reasons -- give me a break.  If China did anything like that they'd lose billions in business overnight through a combination of voluntary departures and ones imposed by law in Canada, the USA, and likely many other western countries.

Early this year when Trump began the tariff fight China was VERY aggressive in response.  Trump imposed those tariffs and China responded with there own.  Trump then imposed more tariffs and China was VERY aggressive in response.  Trump imposed those new tariffs and China responded with there own.  Trump then imposed still more tariffs and at this point China, realizing that the balance of trade would hurt them more than the USA, realized the the USA was finally exercising the clout the US market provides and China all of a sudden was more circumspect.  This is the game they play and unless confronted they will continue to play and benefit from playing.  When the west realizes the clout there money has and begins to exercise it then China will be forced to play fair, but until then China will continue to play this game.

In truth, China has allies in the multi-national companies doing business in China and this was very evident in the wake of the Tiananmen Square slaughter as many western companies, hoping to do business in China, lobbied there governments to not penalize China for the brutal crackdown.  For many, money trumps morality.


Brian
You repeatedly say that China's response was "VERY aggressive" but the total tariffs imposed by the Chinese are only half of the US imposed ones, each Chinese step only matched the one from the US at worst and each and every step was a response to a move first made by the US. How can that be construed as very aggressive, other than viewing the moves made by the US as considerably more aggressive?


The aggression of which I spoke was about the verbal threats China made repeatedly but after about the third round of tariff and counter-tariff China was much less aggressive verbally and in fact you could detect a degree of resignation as they realized they were on the losing end of the fight.  The US, as a country, is the largest market by far, and with that comes clout, clout the US had not used while China continued to steel IP and undercut US goods.  As I mentioned in a prior, I oppose tariffs between relative equals but support tariffs when the two countries are not equal.  So, the US and western nations with higher wages and better workplace safety and environmental controls should impose a tariff equal to about 2/3 of the cost advantage the other nation has.  In this way production will not automatically move to places where pollution controls etc are less and therefore pollution actually increases.  This would also reduce the wage stagnation problem and lessen the wage disparity that has grown to monumental levels in the last four decades.  And here's the last point ... when the wage levels and workplace safety and environmental controls are improved in the other country the tariff goes down automatically.  This will result in an incentive to raise wage levels and improve workplace safety and environmental controls.

But, the rules are written by people that don't care about the working class and in fact the era we live in, the era that's about 40 years old, is largely governed by the idea that cost is everything and chief among the cost centers is labor cost.  The flat-lining of wages for the lower 90% has coincided exactly with the unheard of levels of income disparity and these two facts are not unrelated.  Trump's ham fisted approach is not what I'd propose and applying tariffs to relative equals is unnecessary and unwise unless there is some cheating that warrants a penalty. 


Brian
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2018, 06:09:54 am »
The aggression of which I spoke was about the verbal threats China made repeatedly but after about the third round of tariff and counter-tariff China was much less aggressive verbally and in fact you could detect a degree of resignation as they realized they were on the losing end of the fight.  The US, as a country, is the largest market by far, and with that comes clout, clout the US had not used while China continued to steel IP and undercut US goods.  As I mentioned in a prior, I oppose tariffs between relative equals but support tariffs when the two countries are not equal.  So, the US and western nations with higher wages and better workplace safety and environmental controls should impose a tariff equal to about 2/3 of the cost advantage the other nation has.  In this way production will not automatically move to places where pollution controls etc are less and therefore pollution actually increases.  This would also reduce the wage stagnation problem and lessen the wage disparity that has grown to monumental levels in the last four decades.  And here's the last point ... when the wage levels and workplace safety and environmental controls are improved in the other country the tariff goes down automatically.  This will result in an incentive to raise wage levels and improve workplace safety and environmental controls.

But, the rules are written by people that don't care about the working class and in fact the era we live in, the era that's about 40 years old, is largely governed by the idea that cost is everything and chief among the cost centers is labor cost.  The flat-lining of wages for the lower 90% has coincided exactly with the unheard of levels of income disparity and these two facts are not unrelated.  Trump's ham fisted approach is not what I'd propose and applying tariffs to relative equals is unnecessary and unwise unless there is some cheating that warrants a penalty. 


Brian
Looking at it on a per country basis doesn't make much sense. The US market is third behind the EU and Asian market for China. The reality is that the US needs China more than China needs the US. If all trade between the US and China were to cease tomorrow, the US would certainly have it harder than China. The Chinese won't go that far though, as they own far too much US assets. They'd be shaking money out of their own pockets.

Protectionism never works, regardless of the motivation. It can only lead to isolating your own country while the rest of the world happily overtakes you, if they hadn't already.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2018, 06:33:00 am »
1: Chinese 'people' will get better at thinking for themselves and will start creating innovation instead of copying it. You really don't won't to go into discussing Taiwan or we may then have to get into the Chinese invasion of Tibet or expansionist claims in the south China Sea etc. (way off topic and won't end well)!

2: Agreed in principal. As I posted yesterday agreed keep in front by innovation, creation and manufacturing productivity or die. China is already having to deal with rising wages and some of the other issues western economies face.

3: In your one party totalitarian state you are told to believe implicitly in the infallibility of politicians. This is absolutely false politicians are driven by self interest and are fallible like all of us no matter which country. The idea of 'The Chinese Communist Party' being in charge while some of it's members are worth billions is I am afraid to say 'quaint' being very polite. Even allowing for some western media exaggeration https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/chinas-200-richest-lawmakers-gathering-congress-worth-415-billion/
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2018, 07:34:04 am »
The aggression of which I spoke was about the verbal threats China made repeatedly but after about the third round of tariff and counter-tariff China was much less aggressive verbally and in fact you could detect a degree of resignation as they realized they were on the losing end of the fight.  The US, as a country, is the largest market by far, and with that comes clout, clout the US had not used while China continued to steel IP and undercut US goods.  As I mentioned in a prior, I oppose tariffs between relative equals but support tariffs when the two countries are not equal.  So, the US and western nations with higher wages and better workplace safety and environmental controls should impose a tariff equal to about 2/3 of the cost advantage the other nation has.  In this way production will not automatically move to places where pollution controls etc are less and therefore pollution actually increases.  This would also reduce the wage stagnation problem and lessen the wage disparity that has grown to monumental levels in the last four decades.  And here's the last point ... when the wage levels and workplace safety and environmental controls are improved in the other country the tariff goes down automatically.  This will result in an incentive to raise wage levels and improve workplace safety and environmental controls.

But, the rules are written by people that don't care about the working class and in fact the era we live in, the era that's about 40 years old, is largely governed by the idea that cost is everything and chief among the cost centers is labor cost.  The flat-lining of wages for the lower 90% has coincided exactly with the unheard of levels of income disparity and these two facts are not unrelated.  Trump's ham fisted approach is not what I'd propose and applying tariffs to relative equals is unnecessary and unwise unless there is some cheating that warrants a penalty. 


Brian
Looking at it on a per country basis doesn't make much sense. The US market is third behind the EU and Asian market for China. The reality is that the US needs China more than China needs the US. If all trade between the US and China were to cease tomorrow, the US would certainly have it harder than China. The Chinese won't go that far though, as they own far too much US assets. They'd be shaking money out of their own pockets.

Protectionism never works, regardless of the motivation. It can only lead to isolating your own country while the rest of the world happily overtakes you, if they hadn't already.

You are delusional if you think the US would be harder hit than China.  The value of goods and services each country has with the other results in a balance of trade that hugely favors China so it, for example, the trade was to zero out then China would be impacted about 2X as much in dollar value as the USA and given the relative monetary systems the effect would in fact be more like 4X as much or even greater.  Mind you I'm not suggesting we engage in a trade war but having a balance of trade in the ballpark of -$500B every year is not sustainable.


Brian

The EU and Asia are not a country but a continent or group of nations and the USA is most definitely the country with the largest market on the planet and with that market has clout. 
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2018, 07:45:03 am »
1. <snip> while China continued to steel IP and undercut US goods.

2. So, the US and western nations with higher wages and better workplace safety and environmental controls should impose a tariff equal to about 2/3 of the cost advantage the other nation has. <snip> This will result in an incentive to raise wage levels and improve workplace safety and environmental controls.

3. But, the rules are written by people that don't care about the working class <snip>

1. I agree. My guess the end of the trade war is China will give up stealing western IPs tp certain degree, under a condition that the West promises never to sanction China by limiting high tech export to China. From Chinese government's perspective, the West uses high tech sanction to protest dictatorship and Taiwan problem. If China is given a green unconditionally on high tech, China will have no excuse to fund cloning of Western technology.

2. BS. If you can't compete, you deserve to die. China will deal with pollution and many other social problems, but human competing and phasing out human will never change. That's the thrust of natural selection.

3. Politicians know what is good for the human as a race, not the humanity BS. If evolution requires, everyone not up to the standard should and can die.


2.  There are about 7B people on the planet and the vast majority of them live in poverty.  There will never be an end to the outsourcing and when China gets too pricey the multi-nationals will take there business elsewhere -- remember Japan?

3.  Social Darwinism was never a good idea and supporting the extermination of the less worthy caries several problems not the least of which is who gets to decide who is worthy and who is not.  This ideology was central to the Nazi's and it had many followers, then and now.  You can make claims for and against, but ultimately, if one group gets to decide who can live and who must die then this is what happens.  The group decides such-and-such must be eliminated and when they are all gone is the world the utopia they envisioned?  No, it isn't and before long they realize that others in there midst need to be pruned and when they are gone the process repeats until there's no one left.  Purging the world of people you don't think belong has but one endgame.


Brian
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2018, 07:46:45 am »
How long can the USA sustain federal debt levels above 100% of GDP and who owns a chunk of that debt? As I said yesterday China doesn't need guns against the USA. Trump led BS and Bluster is not a game you can win in the long term.

Protectionism and cutting taxes to 'save' your economy, industries and jobs hasn't worked. Unfortunately to turn around your system built on the ideals of low tax, minimal (perceived) government and the 'American Dream' is going to take some real pain and commitment and to elect that unelectable someone or party willing to do it isn't anywhere on the horizon.

Sorry for going way off topic too  :palm:
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #106 on: December 12, 2018, 08:56:04 am »
Japan was different game back when,,,

Korean war needed a supply base and Japan took off.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #107 on: December 12, 2018, 09:05:41 am »
There will never be an end to the outsourcing and when China gets too pricey the multi-nationals will take there business elsewhere -- remember Japan?

Nope, this time is not the same, either Japan (in 50s up to 80s), Taiwan (90s) , Korea (90s) ... are not the same as China, as these countries basically US's puppies, when they asked to bark, they will bark & wiggles.

China perceived as a puppy ... err... dog ... wild wolf that bites ... lethally if happened.

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #108 on: December 12, 2018, 11:19:43 am »
and there is no bias in that opinion
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #109 on: December 12, 2018, 11:46:32 am »
You are delusional if you think the US would be harder hit than China.  The value of goods and services each country has with the other results in a balance of trade that hugely favors China so it, for example, the trade was to zero out then China would be impacted about 2X as much in dollar value as the USA and given the relative monetary systems the effect would in fact be more like 4X as much or even greater.  Mind you I'm not suggesting we engage in a trade war but having a balance of trade in the ballpark of -$500B every year is not sustainable.


Brian

The EU and Asia are not a country but a continent or group of nations and the USA is most definitely the country with the largest market on the planet and with that market has clout.
I know Americans don't like to hear it, but the US economy would fall flat on its arse if China decided to call it quits. Look at what gets sold in US shops and stores. It's mostly Chinese made. There's no other country or combination of countries which can fill the gap quickly enough to prevent disaster. It's not just that though. The Chinese own a lot in the US. That's a lot of leverage. Again, the Chinese aren't stupid enough to do that exactly because they own a lot of US assets and about 5% of US debt. You don't choke the life out of your own investments, even if the other threatens to put his own head into the noose.

I'm not getting into a discussion over the balance of trade that gets touted so often, but so few people actually seem to understand. Much more than "big number bad" it generally doesn't appear to be, despite actual economists being very clear about that not being a bad thing.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 11:50:32 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #110 on: December 12, 2018, 11:53:38 am »
The Chinese own a lot in the US. That's a lot of leverage. Again, the Chinese aren't stupid enough to do that exactly because they own a lot of US assets and about 5% of US debt. You don't choke the life out of your own investments, even if the other threatens to put his own head into the noose.


Sorry you understated it a little it is actually over 20% of the USA's government debt.
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #111 on: December 12, 2018, 11:58:10 am »
Sorry you understated it a little it is actually over 20% of the USA's government debt.
Various sources seem to disagree a bit on that. The actual number is generally the same at around $1.15 trillion, but the percentage differs by quite a bit. I guess it depends on what you actually take into account. It's a lot either way.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #112 on: December 12, 2018, 12:04:17 pm »
It was something I had heard. Quick check it seems the Chinese only own 20%+ of the foreign owned bit. For some strange reason the US Goverment is the biggest owner of government debt in some figures (got to love economists and accountants) :o
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Offline edyTopic starter

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #113 on: December 12, 2018, 12:44:48 pm »
Just to focus back to the main topic... Apparently it is highly unusual to arrest an individual person that is part of a company when the said company is violating some kind of law. Usually the entire company is sued (like happened to ZTE?) or penalized in some way. So the fact that US is doing this to Meng is being termed "aggressive" and unusual, hence the Chinese assertion of this being a vicious and unfair way of dealing with this issue. Then again, if the US has physical possession of this "asset" (i.e. Meng) then they can exert more pressure on China to resolve things (arm-twisting) and Trump himself even admitted that he could use this (and anything else for that matter) in his trade negotations with China. Perhaps Trump may intervene in letting Meng return back to China in exchange for some sugar-coated deal and then they can work on settling the matter through punishing the company rather than the individual.

I guess one of the main points here that bothers many people is that Meng is being punished individually and facing lengthy prison time when the company itself and many decisions that were made are the result of numerous parties in China. I don't believe Meng masterminded whatever she is being accused of (we still don't know, but people seem to think it has to do with using the US financial system with a subsidiary of Huawei called Skycom that was found selling to Iran). Does Meng deserve to take the fall for this huge company? What other executives are involved? Can this not be resolved through suing or sanctioning the company? Many governments and companies around the world are already avoiding Huawei because of a (yet unproven) fear that there are backdoors in their technology that Chinese government can use to spy. ZTE almost got killed entirely until Trump stepped in and made a last minute deal:

https://gizmodo.com/trump-is-saving-chinas-zte-for-some-reason-and-congress-1826623235

So now US is making an example of Huawei, perhaps due to the ZTE fiasco, they wanted to drive home the point even harder this time around? I can only see this as a political arm-twisting "let's get the asset while we can" decision to make sure Meng is retained so that the Chinese can't slip through or delay the process. Unfortunately Canada is caught in the middle of this, but this could have happened to Australia or perhaps any other country that has an extradition agreement with the USA (and there are lots of them).


 
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Offline Wan Huang Luo

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #114 on: December 12, 2018, 03:12:28 pm »

Make no illusion. In China, everyone has to work for Chinese government, even seemingly anti-China propaganda spreaders, such as the Youtuber laowhy86 and his South African friend.

I was wondering why China tolerated that guy.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2018, 03:14:45 pm »
Everyone needs a bogeyman to point at and say "look at the irrational fool".

Back in the 1980s my father worked for a company who started another company on the side. The second company placed an advert in one of the local computer magazines advertising their services as fixed rate but really expensive. First company pointed at this in their adverts and said they were insane and got all the business. Same thing.
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #116 on: December 12, 2018, 05:00:32 pm »
@edy: Sarbanes-Oxley Act establishes top executives' Individual responsibility for certain violations of financial regulations. They become individually accountable. This is in a different area maybe, but illustrates that individual managers may be held accountable.
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Offline jmelson

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #117 on: December 12, 2018, 05:14:52 pm »
Just to focus back to the main topic... Apparently it is highly unusual to arrest an individual person that is part of a company when the said company is violating some kind of law.
There definitely have been arrests when export restrictions were violated.  I remember back in 2001, McDonnell-Douglas sold an old CNC machine tool to a permitted aviation shop in China.  That shop then transferred the machine to a military plant.  The company eventually paid a fine.  I'm not sure if jail time was sentenced, but I think some people were at least held in jail and then sentenced to time served.

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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #118 on: December 12, 2018, 08:36:37 pm »
Just to focus back to the main topic... Apparently it is highly unusual to arrest an individual person that is part of a company when the said company is violating some kind of law.
There definitely have been arrests when export restrictions were violated.  I remember back in 2001, McDonnell-Douglas sold an old CNC machine tool to a permitted aviation shop in China.  That shop then transferred the machine to a military plant.  The company eventually paid a fine.  I'm not sure if jail time was sentenced, but I think some people were at least held in jail and then sentenced to time served.

Jon

At times, arresting the individual is the only thing that make sense.  Take Costa Concordia sinking for example, 32 people drown because the Captain was reckless.  He took the ship off route and too close to shore.

To quote Daily Mail headline[1], "[the captain] admits he WAS showing off to ship's waiter, a friend on shore and passengers when he attempted fatal 'salute' to island".  You can sue the cruse ship company, penalize the company for X million dollars and jail the conference room for 16 years - what justice would that serve?  It was the Captain, the most senior officer of the ship, he was reckless.   He was found guilty of manslaughter.  He was sentenced to 16 years in prison.  That was justice.

When the illegal/irresponsible act can be traced to particular individual(s), charging them make sense.  It follows that arresting them make sense also.

Applying that to the Huawei case, they will have to trace the act directly to the CFO for the arrest to be "proper".  It is possible that the hardball played by the USA may be just theater.  It would be better had Canada not been involved.  We kind of ask a friend to throw the rock instead of throwing it ourselves.

[Pure speculation here:]  That Canada became involve brings other thoughts into mind - could it be the case that she knew to avoid being on US soil?  If so, it may be indicative of her being aware of what she has done might not have been cool...

[1]
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2857448/I-wanted-kill-three-birds-one-stone-Costa-Concordia-s-Captain-Calamity-admits-showing-attempted-dangerous-salute-island.html
 
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #119 on: December 12, 2018, 09:09:40 pm »
Japan was different game back when,,,

Korean war needed a supply base and Japan took off.

Japan did not become a world industrial power post WWII because they housed some portion of the US military during the Korean war, they did so because US and western companies outsourced manufacturing to them as they were a place with low wages and smart people.  Before long the US and western companies that went to Japan to have products made more cheaply were put out of business by indigenous Japanese companies.  This same game is being played again.  It should also be mentioned that Korea itself benefited and rose to international significance thanks to some portion of world production moving there and the subsequent rise of indigenous Korean companies like Samsung. 

And that's really the point, the world is filled with people that production can be moved to when the current location gets too pricey.


Brian
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2018, 09:13:30 pm »
You are delusional if you think the US would be harder hit than China.  The value of goods and services each country has with the other results in a balance of trade that hugely favors China so it, for example, the trade was to zero out then China would be impacted about 2X as much in dollar value as the USA and given the relative monetary systems the effect would in fact be more like 4X as much or even greater.  Mind you I'm not suggesting we engage in a trade war but having a balance of trade in the ballpark of -$500B every year is not sustainable.


Brian

The EU and Asia are not a country but a continent or group of nations and the USA is most definitely the country with the largest market on the planet and with that market has clout.
I know Americans don't like to hear it, but the US economy would fall flat on its arse if China decided to call it quits. Look at what gets sold in US shops and stores. It's mostly Chinese made. There's no other country or combination of countries which can fill the gap quickly enough to prevent disaster. It's not just that though. The Chinese own a lot in the US. That's a lot of leverage. Again, the Chinese aren't stupid enough to do that exactly because they own a lot of US assets and about 5% of US debt. You don't choke the life out of your own investments, even if the other threatens to put his own head into the noose.

I'm not getting into a discussion over the balance of trade that gets touted so often, but so few people actually seem to understand. Much more than "big number bad" it generally doesn't appear to be, despite actual economists being very clear about that not being a bad thing.

Yes, given the fact that a substantial percentage of goods sold in the USA is made in China there would indeed be trouble if a full on trade war broke out.  The Chinese would see enormous numbers of people thrown out of work while the US would have to employ millions to rebuild our manufacturing base.  There would be problems for sure but the rebuilding would begin the turnaround.


Brian
 

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2018, 09:25:50 pm »
Yes, given the fact that a substantial percentage of goods sold in the USA is made in China there would indeed be trouble if a full on trade war broke out.  The Chinese would see enormous numbers of people thrown out of work while the US would have to employ millions to rebuild our manufacturing base.  There would be problems for sure but the rebuilding would begin the turnaround.
A huge number of jobs can be automated which are not automated while labour costs are low. China has lost an enormous number of jobs to low cost labour countries over the last decade. Most of its clothes manufacturing went to Indonesia and Bangladesh, because that was cheaper than automating the work. It has automated other work, and kept it on shore, but with much lower employment. If it becomes uneconomic to manufacture in China the assembly jobs which are hard to automate will move to countries with better tariff conditions. The jobs which can be automated may move to the US, creating new factories but little employment. The limited number of jobs those factories do create will require highly skilled people. Do enough suitable skills exist in the US?
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2018, 09:41:46 pm »
Classical economics would tell us that as the number of jobs shrinks globally wages would fall, not rise. At least thats what economists say about it.

This is why they want to liberalize services, so companies located in high wage countries can take advantage of the cheap labor in various ways. As the tale goes, the Global South nations "demanded it".

The problem with that plan is that things are changing so quickly, even with access to cheap labor its quite likely there will be a large net loss in jobs and sales nomatter what they do if they do that as planned.

Plus that will be throwing away the developed world's trust in the system and the social contract that was hard won after the Depression and WWII.

So many people might stop buying that the global economy might collapse.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 09:46:29 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2018, 10:37:02 pm »

Yes, given the fact that a substantial percentage of goods sold in the USA is made in China there would indeed be trouble if a full on trade war broke out.  The Chinese would see enormous numbers of people thrown out of work while the US would have to employ millions to rebuild our manufacturing base.  There would be problems for sure but the rebuilding would begin the turnaround.


Brian

You seriously you think a complete breakdown of trade with China would hurt them but the USA would magically employ millions to rebuild its manufacturing base and turnaround using pixie dust and miracles?  :palm:

Perhaps the more likely outcome would be you rely more heavily on the other low cost countries for your imports and your manufacturing base remains in its current state or worse due to the damage this decision would to to your already perilous economic state.
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Huawei arrest, US-China relations and effect on electronics industry
« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2018, 10:39:09 pm »
What manufacturing base. All the tools and equipment and materials are made in China  :-DD

You sold out. Can't go crawling back now. It'll be like the Russians eviscerating the heavy machinery and production capacity from the Eastern Bloc. A 30-40 year mission to build everything from scratch again.
 


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