Hugo, 14, electrocuted in his bath because of his mobile phone !

[Electro Detective]

Transformer isolated or not, with a faulty charger this months Darwin Award winner would have got zapped regardless 

Both legs of the transformers output added with water and conductive phone 's e x y'     metal parts will fix you real good with either a good terminal jolt or a gradual low current demise 

That's extremely unlikely to happen, with an isolation transformer powering the SMPS.

My old mate Murphy can make anything like that just happen...somehow   

When I said unlikely, I really meant virtually impossible.

If the phone charger is powered from an isolated, switched mode power supply, run off an approved isolation transformer. How can one part of the phone be connected to one side of the isolation transformer's secondary and different part of the phone, to the other side of transformer's secondary? Even if the insulation inside the switched mode power supply failed, it would connect the whole phone to the same potential and no current would flow.



This wouldn't happen in the UK, since there are no three pin outlets permitted in the bathroom and the isolation transformer protected shaver sockets have a two pin socket, which is incomparable with standard 3 pin mains plugs. The only way for this to happen would be for the person to plug an extension lead into the socket in another room and take it into the bathroom

Here in Australia it's 3 pin sockets everywhere, and no transformer isolated sockets in any bathroom,
it's straight up non stop 240 volts (650v peak to peak) all the way... and off to other side if you're not careful   

A lot of house wiring is a mish mash 'make it up as you go' in a lot of low income burbs,
and patched up 100 year old homes, some with same vintage wiring

This is why I stated Murphy can make zaps happen from a bad mix of the three wires and ground/earth, suss appliances,
and even issues from adjoining properties is possible, even if your wiring is 100% regulation and 'safe'

Don't get me started with 3 phase 4 pin and 5 pin and conductor sheath color fiascos going on at many shops and factories,
and how they branch off to unlabelled standard 3 pin 240v outlets in pairs or threes, that may have Active to Active 440 volt potential between them   

The  'She'll be right'  attitude here in Australia can suck badly where electrical wiring is concerned 

It's silly really, it's no big deal to diagnose, rectify, and get right using what's already in service, and pop on some labels   

[Rick Law]

1. Don't buy $2 shipped eBay charger.
2. WTF are there still outlets in bathroom that don't have GFCI? GFCI should be installed at service panel level, spare some high leakage/high power stuff such as AC/heater, but those things should have their own GFCI.
3. Why take a bath with a phone at the very beginning? And why keep it charged? If your phone can't last to you sleep, you are playing it too much. Even if electrocution doesn't come after you, myopia will.

Don't say the old houses are exempted by new NEC shit. HOAs can request house owners to do virtually anything regarding to their house, and a safe community adds value to houses, at the cost of literally <$100.

At the risk of seeming presumptuous...  Since you are not showing a USA flag, allow me to say a word or two about how that would go down in the USA.  Even within the USA, the "coastals" would not understand the fly-over country folks.  I had a hell of a culture shock many years back when I moved from the cities to the boonies, and then culture shock again when I move back to the cities from the boonies.

re: "WTF are there still outlets in bathroom that don't have GFCI?"

You bet!  I have relatives living in the same house built since 1960's.  University towns are different since they have faster cycle time.  If you take a drive out into the boonies, you would likely see many houses well into their half-century mark.

re: "Don't say the old houses are exempted by new NEC shit. HOAs can request house owners to do virtually anything regarding to their house, and a safe community adds value to houses, at the cost of literally <$100."

It is a matter of perspective.  Americans in generally don't like government forcing things upon them.  That was the whole idea of the American Revolution.  The more rural you go, the more they hold on to traditional thinking.

HOA is not a governmental structure but more like a club which by joining legally binds you to association rules.  HOA's are similar to owning a house in a golf course: i.e. you must be a member of that golf club to own a house on the golf course.  Zoning board is part of the local governmental structure that deals with houses.  HOA if exist would typically operate under Zoning Board governance in that area.

Out in the boonies, such intrusion into peoples life and properties will not be taken kindly.  I can picture the reaction of the home owners if the Zoning Board (or HOA) candidate campaign on increasing government intrusion.  He will get something from the Home Owner's Ass for sure, however,this time Ass is not an abbreviation but the American spelling of Arse.

There is almost no chance any local authorities can dictate what kinds of light switch they use.  Even cost of fire coverage probably could not force the change since in all likelihood fire coverage there are by volunteers.  However, cost of house insurance would probably have strong leverage in affecting the change - if they decide to buy insurance for their houses.

[gildasd]

Not exactly sure about names in English;

In Belgium (where the accident happened), the rules are clear for bathrooms;
Two differential breakers in series, 300mA then 30mA.
If anything is in zone 2 (as in within reach) then that needs separate 10mA breaker.

Not sure that would have saved that kid from his stupidity.

Source (p9 to 11):
https://vivreensecurite.vincotte.be/fr/publications/download/installations-electriques-domestiques

[helius]

There is almost no chance any local authorities can dictate what kinds of light switch they use.

but NEC is just a model code that needs local government regulation to be enforced. You will find some places are stricter than others.
Like anything in life it's a matter of tradeoffs. I certainly would not want to be in a place like the UK with an almost hysterical fear of electric shock—where people are so mindless as to place mains appliances on top of their tub while bathing. And yet that is what we have in TFA story.

[Mr. Scram]

Houses more than 40 years old are unlikely to be part of homeowner associations.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. I assume you're talking about a situation specific to your part of the world?

[orin]

There is almost no chance any local authorities can dictate what kinds of light switch they use.

but NEC is just a model code that needs local government regulation to be enforced. You will find some places are stricter than others.
Like anything in life it's a matter of tradeoffs. I certainly would not want to be in a place like the UK with an almost hysterical fear of electric shock—where people are so mindless as to place mains appliances on top of their tub while bathing. And yet that is what we have in TFA story.

Since you mention light switches...  There are forums that discuss the application of the NEC.  At one point, I was replacing a light switch (allowed by local code) and it turned out it was on a 20A circuit.

So, if you have a 20A circuit with 12 gauge wire and you have a light and light switch on the circuit somewhere.  What rating should the switch have?  (You have a choice of 15A or 20A.)

[Rick Law]

...
I own a house in North Carolina, and my HOA is really active, they want to regulate everything... ...The HOA of the previous house I rent was worse.

I guess any where you go, HOA's (and Zoning Boards) are NAZI's.  You can always run for board membership and get things your way.  That was how one of my neighbors got himself exempted from a boat load of rules.  The only one around with a super-sized deck.

There is almost no chance any local authorities can dictate what kinds of light switch they use.

but NEC is just a model code that needs local government regulation to be enforced. You will find some places are stricter than others.
Like anything in life it's a matter of tradeoffs.
...

Beside local, there is the County and State level.  Most of the structural/electrical housing rules around here are State.  Appearance, size, etc., are more local.  As of the last time I thought about moving (around 5-10 years ago), GFCI would be applicable to new houses only.  As long as the home owner stayed put, those regs do not apply.

But, as blueskull point out, those outlets are cheap.  If one is selling ones house, anything non-compliant would bring down the value of the house.  It would be foolish for a seller not to spend the few bucks.  (That was why I was looking up the regs.)

Houses more than 40 years old are unlikely to be part of homeowner associations.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. I assume you're talking about a situation specific to your part of the world?

I would not be surprise if it is wide spread in the USA (that houses over 40yr is unlikely to be in a development).

I lived in 4 different States, and spend a good bit of time in another two States.  Housing Developments appear to be only near major cities/job-areas.

Even in New Jersey less than 2-hours drive from NYC, housing development is not as wide spread as one may think and certainly recent.  I live in a development (approx 25-30 yr old) - I was told by the township (while paying for sewage fee) that this was the first development in this township, first group of houses to have sewage connection instead of sewage tanks.

In earlier times, it would be flatten the trees, split the lots, build houses on them, and off they go start selling.  Just new houses along a new road.  No setting up common/shared facilities which requires an HOA, and no common looks for houses...  For those, I do not think of them as developments - they lack all "look alike" feel associated with developments.  Those are just new houses along a new road.

[Chris56000]

Hi!

If that poor kiddie was using a cheap eBay charger there's every possibility it may not have had any mains isolation at all - HV2405, etc., I've broken one or two of these things open myself and direct off-mains switch chips aren't unknown by any means - what makes it worse is the datasheets describe "portable or phone chargers" as one of the typical uses of these devices!

There's no way that poor lad could have known that type of circuit was in use either - if he'd put it "wrong way round" the negative DC return could so easily be on the live side of the mains!

In the old days when thermionic valves were used in TV sets the high-tension always came direct off the mains supplies as 50Hz isolated mains transformers were far too large, heavy and expensive for set-makers to contemplate! Even when colour TV became all solid-state it was well into the mid 1980s and after before set-makers designed Switch-mode transformers with fully isolated HT and feedback windings allowing a fully mains-isolated chassis!

Chris Williams

[helius]

In earlier times, it would be flatten the trees, split the lots, build houses on them, and off they go start selling.  Just new houses along a new road.  No setting up common/shared facilities which requires an HOA, and no common looks for houses...  For those, I do not think of them as developments - they lack all "look alike" feel associated with developments.  Those are just new houses along a new road.

In earlier times, it was fairly common for new developments to come with restrictive covenants, but the rules tended to be fixed in the deed language and not subject to the decisions of a corporation. I've looked them up in deed books, and seen them written in longhand: one included rules about setbacks, banned horse stables and alcohol sales, prohibited industrial works and tenements, and nothing else.

[Ampera]

I think any argument here about the fault of the charger is a stupid one. Even if the charger had a major fault (as most cheap shit does), he didn't die from using a charger in bed, he died from being a jackass and using his phone in the bathtub. With all so nice and friendly LiPos stuck in modern phones, I'm surprised getting phones wet, and having what may very likely be a continual short through it doesn't blow up more phones.

[Cyberdragon]

I think any argument here about the fault of the charger is a stupid one. Even if the charger had a major fault (as most cheap shit does), he didn't die from using a charger in bed, he died from being a jackass and using his phone in the bathtub. With all so nice and friendly LiPos stuck in modern phones, I'm surprised getting phones wet, and having what may very likely be a continual short through it doesn't blow up more phones.

Because only crap phones aren't waterproof...

[Ampera]

I think any argument here about the fault of the charger is a stupid one. Even if the charger had a major fault (as most cheap shit does), he didn't die from using a charger in bed, he died from being a jackass and using his phone in the bathtub. With all so nice and friendly LiPos stuck in modern phones, I'm surprised getting phones wet, and having what may very likely be a continual short through it doesn't blow up more phones.

Because only crap phones aren't waterproof...

Yeah, but I've seen few wall chargers that claim to be so.

It's a stupid idea even if it is waterproof.