EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Randall W. Lott on April 04, 2013, 02:33:22 pm
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My workplace just sent hundreds of electronics products to be destroyed. They didn't want me taking any of it, even though most of it was working. There were huge power supplies, tons of rack equipment in re-usable cases, test equipment, PC's, UPS's, fiber optic equipment, and much more.
What a tease.
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and you you killed part of me as well :scared:
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Dave would have been able to do a tear-down every day for the next 5 years. Boo! |O
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This is actually pretty common. If they give it to you, then someone else finds out, bitches they didn't get something, complains to HR and all hell breaks out.
Many companies have an internal auction site, gives everybody a chance.
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I could understand if it was to be donated, but we literally had to put "destroy" stickers on it to be hauled away to the scrap yard.
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:( :'(
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You know what scrap yard? :P
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Tax writeoff
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They wrapped pallets full of equipment in plastic wrap. I have no idea what kind of place could dispose of that much equipment, but there will have to be a huge truck to get it.
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They wrapped pallets full of equipment in plastic wrap. I have no idea what kind of place could dispose of that much equipment, but there will have to be a huge truck to get it.
May well be just going for scrap metal.
Speak to the truck driver to find where it's going.
Maybe sneak big 'call me' label note onto the pallets.
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Go rent your own truck right this instant and stalk the collection truck like a hawk.
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My workplace just sent hundreds of electronics products to be destroyed. They didn't want me taking any of it, even though most of it was working. There were huge power supplies, tons of rack equipment in re-usable cases, test equipment, PC's, UPS's, fiber optic equipment, and much more.
What a tease.
Totally understand you, I had the exact same situation, hundreds of power supplys, scopes, signal generators, and more.
And yes, they didn't want me to take a single thing.
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Is the industry security sensitive? What I mean by that is if they are worried about people taking production equipment and shipping it to china to set up assembly lines. I've seen working servo motors worth in excess of $5k USD being cut in two for this reason.
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Tax writeoff
Good point, and less hassle with paper work, ensuring they didn't make a profit on it when giving it away.
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The thing is.. my company is a "non-profit".
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Yes, it is the old ridiculous problem with government and red tape. They write off the equipment a little each year until it is "worth nothing" on paper. Then when it is completely written off the equipment can become a tax burden. So when the equipment is to be removed from the books they must destroy it because any other action reapplies a value on the equipment and they have to give back they taxes deducted for the depreciation they have claimed. It is very sad and very wasteful.
I was doing some work comissioning some equipment at an IBM research centre one day and saw rolling shelves all around the building in hallways with the "to be destroyed" stickers all over them. Some of it looked brand new in condition and most of it was very expensive equipment. I added up the estimated used value on one pile and I also died a bit that day. There was over $250,000 worth of equipment on just that one pile. There must have been 20-25 rolling shelves around the hallways. Oscilloscopes, meters, scales, microscopes, power supplies, etc....
I watched as they carted one out to the portable crusher they had in the receiving bay and watched and listened as the ram closed down. :-[
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How come you didn't volunteer to destroy some of it?
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I forgot to mention that there was some government official standing at the crusher marking down each serial number as each bit of equipment got thrown in.
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This is actually pretty common. If they give it to you, then someone else finds out, bitches they didn't get something, complains to HR and all hell breaks out.
Many companies have an internal auction site, gives everybody a chance.
When I start my own business emporium the size of Google I will have my own internal eBay for the test equipment the company trashes away and isn't good enough for me. ;D
On a more serious note, imagine all you could do with that perfectly good equipment in a developing country like mine! We need that stuff! :palm: I am sure you could donate a bunch of those to the state universities (with the tiny budgets they have, they would definitely take advantage of anything) and even private ones. Jeez, you can even sell them for a ridiculous to students or a good price to local companies. |O
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This is actually pretty common. If they give it to you, then someone else finds out, bitches they didn't get something, complains to HR and all hell breaks out.
Many companies have an internal auction site, gives everybody a chance.
Pretty good point there. And this is what drove our company to stop. We used to have a very large fabrication shop at the manufacturing facility I work at. We build industrial fork lifts. So we are talking about tons of scrap metal. Metals plates from 1/16 of an inch thick to over 4 inches thick. Various widths and sizes. It was a paradise! If you wanted to build a utility trailer there was plenty of scrap to use and this stuff went for cheap. Also included was test gear from the lab and also computers
Every quarter the plant would have an auction for employees only. 100 bucks would give you 2 truckloads of scrap. But there was a greedy manager that had a home based welding shop. He took 2 pallets of metal and hid them in the yard. The morning of the auction someone discovered his stash. And since it was located outside it was moved to the auction area and sold.
The manager of the department went to HR and convinced them that the company should sell the scape to a recycler instead of auctioning it off to employees. And they followed suit. We have tried to get the company to change this but said they would be liable if someone got hurt at home.
Now the only thing you are allowed to take home is wood and card board. And do not take a picture of anything in the facility with your personal phone. That is grounds for termination since we are foreign trade…
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My workplace had a room full of WEEE scrap. My boss said, "anything you like you can take". I ended up with a load of graphic VFDs, LCDs, dev boards etc. plus a power drill and electric screwdriver, which both had dead batteries (just needed reforming with high pulse current, easily done.)
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That sucks, and they didnt even auction it?
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My workplace just sent hundreds of electronics products to be destroyed. They didn't want me taking any of it, even though most of it was working. There were huge power supplies, tons of rack equipment in re-usable cases, test equipment, PC's, UPS's, fiber optic equipment, and much more.
What a tease.
Would have cost you at least $40,000
for the new extension to where you live to house all that gear.
They're doing you a favour
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The thing is.. my company is a "non-profit".
so , again : then it is written of as a loss... so as to reach zero profit at the end of the year.
it was bought with money , used, and there was a remainder ont he books -> scrap it and you can deduct it...
basics of bookkeeping...
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I work at a laboratory operated by our state university. I estimated $200,000+ of gear was being thrown out.
I'm not allowed to take pictures at work either, because hundreds of large companies send their equipment or use our facility to test for interoperability. We apparently have about $50M of equipment. Racks up to the ceiling full of equipment.
These items were decommissioned, so I can understand why they can't give away gear that was erased from the books. My boss had me take a break from my PCB design to help load up the palettes, haha!
One of my co-workers had been able to take some things in the past, possibly by purchasing it for cheap.
Life is full of unfair situations. This has been no exception.
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Once it hits the dumpster, it's fair game.
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Once it hits the dumpster, it's fair game.
The owner of the dumpster is sometimes of a different opinion :-(
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One of the major test equipment manufacturers recently offered a trade-in sale. You know, any old bit of similar gear in exchange for a discount on their shiny new one.
Some of the stuff that get traded in is in excellent condition and worth a lot on ebay. But the dealers who accept are legally bound to destroy them, and to prove they have done so :palm:
No giving it away to kids or hobbyists or schools :--
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Once it hits the dumpster, it's fair game.
The owner of the dumpster is sometimes of a different opinion :-(
Not when it's still on the premises, screw'em.
A late night stealth dumpster run in is order. "Boss, I'm just going to stay back and work late tonight, ok?"
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One of the major test equipment manufacturers recently offered a trade-in sale. You know, any old bit of similar gear in exchange for a discount on their shiny new one.
Some of the stuff that get traded in is in excellent condition and worth a lot on ebay. But the dealers who accept are legally bound to destroy them, and to prove they have done so :palm:
No giving it away to kids or hobbyists or schools :--
Of course not. One goal of these trade-ins is to take competitor equipment off the market. Not to have kids or hobbyists experience well working competitor equipment.
Yes we live in a sick world, especially when MBAs and accountants are involved.
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What? Is your company a school or university, or what?
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You should seriously steal it. With no mercy and no conscience.
Sometimes it is the only way to get some equipment sentenced to be destroyed.
It is usual in universities, however you sholud watch for security cameras.
What I wrote is not a joke.
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One of the major test equipment manufacturers recently offered a trade-in sale. You know, any old bit of similar gear in exchange for a discount on their shiny new one.
Some of the stuff that get traded in is in excellent condition and worth a lot on ebay. But the dealers who accept are legally bound to destroy them, and to prove they have done so :palm:
No giving it away to kids or hobbyists or schools :--
Of course not. One goal of these trade-ins is to take competitor equipment off the market. Not to have kids or hobbyists experience well working competitor equipment.
Yes we live in a sick world, especially when MBAs and accountants are involved.
I remember that when my work was buying a new scope (some fancy £3,000+ Agilent) I was asked if I wanted to donate my old scope for £45, I guess so they could take it off the market. It was an old 20 MHz Gould, about 35 years old and still worked just fine. I declined and later sold it for £30 on eBay, but at least I know it actually went to someone and will likely have many more years of useful life.
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You should seriously steal it. With no mercy and no conscience.
Sometimes it is the only way to get some equipment sentenced to be destroyed.
It is usual in universities, however you sholud watch for security cameras.
What I wrote is not a joke.
Don't get caught, you might get fired
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Don't get caught, you might get fired
If that's the worst that can happen, go for it! >:D
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"So, why did you leave your last job?"
"Had to save some test equipment from a dumpster."
--If I am hiring an engineer (Maybe I will in the future!) then this would be instantly a positive sign... :-DD
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"So, why did you leave your last job?"
"Had to save some test equipment from a dumpster."
--If I am hiring an engineer (Maybe I will in the future!) then this would be instantly a positive sign... :-DD
You don't want to work for a company where it's not!
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ehh whats too bad about getting fired, never had a job in my life but doesn't sound that bad >:D
(in 15, don't think im lazy!)
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My company is a very large building. I think it's over 100,000 square feet. Actually, our company is inside of another company's building. It's run by the University and many of the employees are students or former students.
There's a loading dock, so it might be packed straight on to a truck. I'll see if my boss has another opinion on the matter. The guy I talked to is a dick and he didn't thank me for volunteering to help pack the gear onto the palettes.
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Don't get caught, you might get fired
If that's the worst that can happen, go for it! >:D
That and a criminal record. And that limits your chances for some jobs.
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That and a criminal record. And that limits your chances for some jobs.
For taking rubbish out of a dumpster :-DD
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That and a criminal record. And that limits your chances for some jobs.
For taking rubbish out of a dumpster :-DD
If I knew where the scrap container was, I'd certainly sneak a peek :-+
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I have got a few things from the dump outside my college but I knew one of the "chief janitors" if there is such a position and he allowed me to grab the occasional thing. I got a Denon tape deck (working, sold for about £15), a Sony VCR (working with a jammed tape, easily fixed), a battery charger (had one cold joint) etc.etc...
In my university, there is an entire room (computer lab sized) full of unused/condemned equipment (unused, unneeded etc.) Lecturer says most of it will be chucked, he can't even give it to students or donate it. Sad.
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That and a criminal record. And that limits your chances for some jobs.
For taking rubbish out of a dumpster :-DD
Eh, I'm not sure I agree. That dumpster has an owner, and whatever's put in it is their property now. Trash isn't public property unless its owner specifically makes it public property by sticking a big old "Free!" sign on it, which they clearly didn't do. As much as I'd like to be able to take expensive garbage, I'm OK with something only becoming mine with the permission of its previous owner.
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Many places have laws which state rubbish disposed of in some dumpsters belongs to the municipal authority. This is because waste can actually be valuable as scrap for them.
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Those are reasons I simply used word as "steal" or "theft". No soft words. However, I don't feel guilt.
What feelings would thieves have if they are robbed ?
These rubish collectors acquire old equipment for gold, silver, platinium, copper or palladium robbing.
I didn't steal some valuable equipment yet, but some parts as capacitors, relays or some IC's have "suddenly" sneaked in my backpack. Ou dear.
I only take components marked as "trash" or "never be used anymore". What is more, I do not sell it forward, I keep it for my personal purposes like education, hobby projects..
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Come on people, it's frigg'n dumpster diving!
The company has thrown the item in the bin, which clearly (and perhaps even legally if it came to that) indicates that they have written off and disposed of the item for good.
The bin will also likely be on company property, so by law you aren't trespassing as an employee/student.
And dumpsters are usually designated general rubbish which goes directly to the land fill. The garbage company doesn't give a toss what is in there provided it's not hazardous and meets their guidelines so they can dump it. And some may speculate about the goods becoming the rubbish companies property once it enters the bin, I call BS on that while the bin is still on your companies property.
And seriously, a garbage company is going to attempt to have you charged because you took garbage out of the their dumpster while it's on your companies premises?, I don't think so.
If anyone wants to talk non-dumpster tech disposal companies, then that's a different argument.
Name one person, anywhere, who has a criminal record because of dumpster diving when they are not trespassing.
Sure, there is a slim chance you might lose your job if they are that anal, but a criminal record :-DD
Heck, I reckon their would be a reasonable case (in this country) for unfair dismissal if they sacked you for dumpster diving. Unless it was specifically stated in the companies rules and regulations you signed on for.
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This is the kind of thing I complain about often. I've seen it so many times, and died more each time. But usually when I try to tell people who've never seen this happen, they flatly refuse to believe me it happens.
I hear claims like "There's little 2nd hand test equipment in Australia, because it's such a small market." No, there's little 2nd hand test equipment in Australia because here the regulations and structures that ensure all 'depreciated' equipment is destroyed, have fewer loopholes and are more strongly enforced than in most places.
I agree with the comment that when you see this happening, there's only one rational, moral response. Do whatever you can to save the equipment. Including stealing it. By any means.
The financial frameworks in this world are mostly evil. Claiming "our book keeping methods say this equipment's value is zero, and so we can't even give it away because that implies it has value, so it has to be destroyed..." - that's evil. I would happily violently kill such people, if I could get away with it. They deserve to die. The whole system that produces such insanity deserves to die.
It's also commonly the case that there are 'no photographs' rules in place, where equipment is being stockpiled for destruction. Never mind whatever bullshit reasons are given, the real reason is that the people in charge of such immoral acts don't wish any risk of public exposure.
So, what you should do, when you find an example of this immoral destruction, is definitely take photos. Then scrub the EXIF (camera ID) data from your photos (for eg using Irfanview), and publish them anonymously. Complete with names of those responsible, the company name and address, and whatever details you can get of exactly what is being destroyed and the (bogus) reasons claimed. Also the destination of the shipment, where it's supposed to be destroyed. Trucking company name, numberplates, etc. Everything.
We have the Internet. It's a powerful tool for fighting such secret evils. F*cking USE it!
I'd suggest eevblog forum should add a 'Wanton Destruction Hall of Infamy' category, except I know it would never happen. Dave's sponsors (HP, Tek, etc) would immediately call him up and explain how inappropriate that was, and there'd be no more demo equipment loans till he put a stop to it.
Funniest story I have in this category: Long long ago (well past statute of limitations!) I was associated with some people who ran various kinds of arcade games. This was in the days of laser video disks. They imported a bunch of laser disk players for 'cut scene' video in one of their games. Paid a lot of money in import duty. The disk players turned out to not be suitable. Accountants inform them they can recover their import duty from the government, if they have the disk players bulldozed in the presence of a tax inspector who will note serial numbers, etc. So I (being a nice guy and owed a favor by my employer) get a phone call the day before Christmas. "Hey, this is horrible, but we have to destroy those laser disk players. In a few days. If you like I can bring them round to your place now, and pick them up again Boxing day. No one is ever going to open them up and look inside. Do you have some bricks handy? These players contain a lot of nice stuff including HeNe lasers; so long as the units seem about the right weight it will all be good."
So I spent Christmas eve gutting about 20 laser disk players and replacing the guts with bricks.
I've seen countless other examples, most with tragic and entirely humorless end results. it's one of the reasons I 'retired' early. I simply couldn't bear being associated with such an evil system any more.
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I'd suggest eevblog forum should add a 'Wanton Destruction Hall of Infamy' category, except I know it would never happen. Dave's sponsors (HP, Tek, etc) would immediately call him up and explain how inappropriate that was, and there'd be no more demo equipment loans till he put a stop to it.
No, read the forum title, this is a "A Free & Open Forum" (subject to publishing copyright stuff or abuse for example).
I don't care what you post on here, so by all means set up a forum topic and post the photos.
I don't care if there are repercussions and I lose advertising, or demo gear or whatever. Really, I don't, that's how I roll.
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Last week I found out that a Component supplier (Melb OZ) I've dealt with for 20+ yrs had a change of owner who decided to
"clean up" their stock levels. Sent 2x 40 foot container loads for crushing. And NONE of it was "cheap Chinese" grade !!
All electronics related ... was I FOOKIN SAD that day !
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The thing is.. my company is a "non-profit".
I'm under the impression the tax implications would be even more critical for them then.
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No, read the forum title, this is a "A Free & Open Forum" (subject to publishing copyright stuff or abuse for example).
I don't care what you post on here, so by all means set up a forum topic and post the photos.
I don't care if there are repercussions and I lose advertising, or demo gear or whatever. Really, I don't, that's how I roll.
Hmm... I know anyone can start threads, but that really should be a category. Like Buy/Sell/Wanted, General Chat, etc. I can't see any way for users to create categories (and a good thing that is!)
Wanton Destruction Hall of Infamy - seems like a good category title to me. Anyone else agree? Other ideas for the title? Maybe 'Depreciated, my arse!
I definitely can post some photos to kick it off. Dave, I recall you mentioning an example you saw a few months ago, of a large quantity of scopes etc destined for destruction. Any photos?
Oh, and I've read news stories in the US in the last year about people being arrested and charged with theft, for picking up stuff from kerbside council cleanup piles. Even one example in Australia I seem to recall.
The legal argument was that once the resident puts stuff out for a cleanup, it belongs to the council.
Just more insanity, signs of a society spiraling into madness.
Something amusing slightly related: While rummaging (illegally now?) in a council cleanup kerbside pile of junk, I was chatting with someone else going through the same pile. He mentioned one should always check out old couches very carefully. A friend of his had found about $5000 in cash stuffed in one, and he's heard other similar stories. Presumably Granny forgot to tell anyone where she hid her savings. Also often surprising amounts of cash slipped down behind the cushions.
Another story, directly related: Long long ago (of course!) I was working on Garden Island on a ship refurbishment. An adjoining Navy building, some kind of stores warehouse, had a huge dumpster out front. One day a pile of very old ship's radar console gear appeared in the dumpster. All valves and mechanical synchro-servos. Probably from the 40s or 50s, totally obsolete. But I always wanted to have some synchro-servos to play with. I asked in the warehouse if I could salvage them. "Oh no no noooooo! It's all SECRET. Has to be destroyed." It sat there a few days, infuriatingly taunting and forlorn. The evening before the dumpster was finally carted away, I understand that gear was smuggled out in the back of someone's ute. So glad it was saved by *whoever* it was that would appreciate it.
Coincidentally, I'm looking for a 3-phase 115V AC supply. Anyone have a 3-phase variac or 240V to 115V converter they don't want?
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Oh, and I've read news stories in the US in the last year about people being arrested and charged with theft, for picking up stuff from kerbside council cleanup piles. Even one example in Australia I seem to recall.
The legal argument was that once the resident puts stuff out for a cleanup, it belongs to the council.
Just more insanity, signs of a society spiraling into madness.
It's a bit sad that it's happening in Australia - I hate seeing people get more restrictive with that kind of stuff - but that attitude is common in the US. It's not public property because it wasn't released explicitly to the public. TBH I'm not sure whether or not I agree with that, but it is certainly how I and most people I know were raised.
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A while back, my school district gave the axe to the industrial tech department. >:( A friend and I 'stole' a couple hitachi scopes, function generators, and power supplies. My only regret is that I didn't have the balls to go into the other room and get the plasma cutter. I found all of the equipment that we didn't save the next day tossed in the dumpster behind the school. I don't understand how people think that test equipment is useless... Its almost like they think that anything that isn't made by apple is medieval :-DD
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A while back, my school district gave the axe to the industrial tech department. >:(
That's sad. The school near me is giving the axe to everything that's relatively important, too. Funny they don't ever cut the funds to the football shit. And the money whore of a superintendent actually took a raise while all this was going on, too. That doesn't anger me nearly as much as the fact that the town did not show up at her door with torches and pitchforks, the fat piece of shit... >:(
I don't understand how people think that test equipment is useless... Its almost like they think that anything that isn't made by apple is medieval :-DD
To their credit, a lot of older test equipment would look like absolute junk to someone who doesn't know what it is.
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Yea, im fine with taking old useless equipment out of people's trash bins, but if its still working expensive stuff I fell likes its even more serious
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It's a bit sad that it's happening in Australia - I hate seeing people get more restrictive with that kind of stuff - but that attitude is common in the US. It's not public property because it wasn't released explicitly to the public. TBH I'm not sure whether or not I agree with that, but it is certainly how I and most people I know were raised.
In my childhood times, there were virtually no restrictions on scavenging in council rubbish tips. Many happy childhood hours I spent playing in a couple of local tips. So much interesting stuff! It was actually how I got my start in electronics - by bringing home old radios, TVs, and sometimes more technical stuff, then pulling it apart and making things from the bits. This was age around 8 to 12 or so. (My family was poor btw.)
Then council tips got all lawyerish, and banned scrounging. No trespassing, and also they made sure to bulldoze everything dumped that day before the staff left. It was very sad to see.
One of the most outrageous examples of widespread waste in our society, is supermarket dumping. Most people are not aware just how much perfectly good food supermarkets throw out, because they keep their dumpsters in secure areas that aren't even visible to the public.
But once some friends and I were on a car trip to go rock climbing in Mt Arapiles, western Vic. We happened to stop in a country town called Ararat, Vic, to buy some food for the week's camping. For some reason the supermarket here had their dumpster off to the side, in plain view and unlocked. Out of curiosity we had a look, being all for dumpster diving. Riches! It was a very large dumpster, filled to the brim with food. All kinds - everything from a large supermarket. Everything from sacks of potatoes to gourmet cheeses. Piles of tinned food, rice, vegetables, fruit.... All of it near or just over expiry dates. Potato sacks with a few eye shoots on some, fruit with maybe a tiny bruise, tins with dents or torn labels...
We literally filled up my station sedan so there was barely room to sit. Ate like kings for the next week.
Every supermarket does this, everywhere, every day. While in other places people starve to death (and some here are pretty damned hungry too.) But markets can't give the food away, due to the expiry date and legal liability. And it might cut their profits, through some lost sales.
F*ck the law, I say.
Funniest dumpster diving story: a friend of mine for a while lived near a factory in Marrickville that baked a large fraction of the donuts and cakes for Sth Sydney. He found their dumpster was where they disposed of the 'defective' product from each night's baking. Emptied every day, so it was all freshly baked. For a year we had a limitless supply of fresh donuts and cakes. Who cares if the icing was slightly asymmetrical, or whatever? The only small problem was that bees also discovered this dumpster full of icing and sugary glazed cakes. So getting the boxes of confections out was a bit like robbing honey from a bee hive.
Mmmmm.. I can still smell that dumpster. It was delicious.
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That's just pathetic. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable taking expensive stuff from the trash but the lawyers can go to hell. The food dumping is especially bad.
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Funniest dumpster diving story: a friend of mine for a while lived near a factory in Marrickville that baked a large fraction of the donuts and cakes for Sth Sydney. He found their dumpster was where they disposed of the 'defective' product from each night's baking. Emptied every day, so it was all freshly baked. For a year we had a limitless supply of fresh donuts and cakes. Who cares if the icing was slightly off, or whatever? The only small problem was that bees also discovered this dumpster full of icing and sugary glazed cakes. So getting the boxes of confections out was a bit like robbing honey from a bee hive.
Nicking equipment from the trash is boring enough for me not to really care, but OK, that's a nice little adventure right there. :-+
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I'm so lucky. All I got to do is get a slip and two signatures and I can take all kinds of things like input output boards and motor control boards. Got a 90's computer with a bad hard drive. I have a box of stuff sitting at work cause I have more than I can handle at home now.
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wana mail some of that to me??
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I'm so lucky. All I got to do is get a slip and two signatures and I can take all kinds of things like input output boards and motor control boards. Got a 90's computer with a bad hard drive. I have a box of stuff sitting at work cause I have more than I can handle at home now.
Nice score! Congratulations! :-+
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I'm so lucky. All I got to do is get a slip and two signatures and I can take all kinds of things like input output boards and motor control boards. Got a 90's computer with a bad hard drive. I have a box of stuff sitting at work cause I have more than I can handle at home now.
Nice score! Congratulations! :-+
I might give some of it to a hackerspace in Springfield Mo. next time I'm in the area.
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I am now half dead!
|O |O :-BROKE :-BROKE :bullshit: :-DMM :-DMM :-/O :-/O:phew: :phew: :phew: :scared: :scared: :'(
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Hmm... I know anyone can start threads, but that really should be a category. Like Buy/Sell/Wanted, General Chat, etc. I can't see any way for users to create categories (and a good thing that is!)
Wanton Destruction Hall of Infamy - seems like a good category title to me. Anyone else agree? Other ideas for the title? Maybe 'Depreciated, my arse!
But that's the problem, everyone wants their own Sticky Thread or even category for their pet subject topic, it's just not possible.
This is not suited to a category, as it's really just a single issue thread.
I definitely can post some photos to kick it off. Dave, I recall you mentioning an example you saw a few months ago, of a large quantity of scopes etc destined for destruction. Any photos?
Actually, I have video of it. But the person who let me shoot it on their premises didn't want it released, so I'll honor that.
Oh, and I've read news stories in the US in the last year about people being arrested and charged with theft, for picking up stuff from kerbside council cleanup piles. Even one example in Australia I seem to recall.
Were they actually convicted?
Got any links for that?
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A few years back in NZ there was someone who took a Lawn-mower from the curbside during the council inorganic collection days.
It turned out the home owner had been mowing his lawn and gone inside to get something. :-DD
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Every supermarket does this, everywhere, every day. While in other places people starve to death (and some here are pretty damned hungry too.) But markets can't give the food away, due to the expiry date and legal liability.
Yes, they can give the food away, there is nothing stopping them legally, except the fear of legal liability, which is of course complete BS. If you didn't sell the product, and didn't knowingly give away poison/dangerous food, you won't be liable squat.
http://www.ozharvest.org/donatefood.asp?pageID=618 (http://www.ozharvest.org/donatefood.asp?pageID=618)
Thankfully there are companies like OzHarvest that capture that food before it's tossed out.
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/waste-not-want-not-means-theres-frequently-something-to-chew-on-20120520-1yz18.html (http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/waste-not-want-not-means-theres-frequently-something-to-chew-on-20120520-1yz18.html)
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Oh, and I've read news stories in the US in the last year about people being arrested and charged with theft, for picking up stuff from kerbside council cleanup piles. Even one example in Australia I seem to recall.
I remember this one, but it's a little different from what we're talking about here. Basically the council and residents got sick and tired of bogans trawling through the curbside rubbish piles and making a shitfull mess. People would stack a pile of rubbish outside their house then some bogan would rip it apart to get a sheet of rusty iron at the bottom and leave everything strune everywhere. The council "owning" everything put out was just the legal way they could stop people from doing this.
It never would have been a problem if the bogans had just a bit of curtsy and left the pile of rubbish, as a pile.
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I remember this one, but it's a little different from what we're talking about here. Basically the council and residents got sick and tired of bogans trawling through the curbside rubbish piles and making a shitfull mess. People would stack a pile of rubbish outside their house then some bogan would rip it apart to get a sheet of rusty iron at the bottom and leave everything strune everywhere.
That's what we have bears for.
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Hehe yeah, we have that problem also. (People making a mess trying to get at stuff.)
The most annoying thing is when people smashing CRT screens to get the copper yoke off and leave glass everywhere.
However its less of problem now that CRTs are disappearing.
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The council "owning" everything put out was just the legal way they could stop people from doing this.
A bounty would have been a better idea. $50 for each mullet scalp.
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Hmm... I know anyone can start threads, but that really should be a category. Like Buy/Sell/Wanted, General Chat, etc. I can't see any way for users to create categories (and a good thing that is!)
Wanton Destruction Hall of Infamy - seems like a good category title to me. Anyone else agree? Other ideas for the title? Maybe 'Depreciated, my arse!
But that's the problem, everyone wants their own Sticky Thread or even category for their pet subject topic, it's just not possible.
This is not suited to a category, as it's really just a single issue thread.
Unlike 'wanted buy/sell' or 'Contests'?
I think you'd find if there was a stable place for people to post such stories, it would be surprising how many would turn up. And keep on turning up, especially if the venue became widely known. Also each example should be discussed in it's own thread, not mixed in with others in one thread. (That regularly vanishes off the front page and is forgotten.)
It's a topic that really is quite political, and emotionally charged. Aspects of our society and business methods are incredibly, immorally wasteful and destructive. That could be fixed, if there was enough public pressure to fix it.
This reminds me of the Roman senator, who when he heard of an idea to make all slaves wear armbands, said "No, for then they would see how many of them there are, and revolt."
This 'bulldoze it' bullshit continues to happen, because few people realize how often it happens. If they hear of one or two instances they think it's no big deal, just some kind of unique aberration. But it's common (in Australia), and I think very harmful to the ability of our society to maintain numbers of the technically literate and capable. [Some, including me, would say that is the deliberate intent behind the accounting and business rules which cause the destruction.]
I definitely can post some photos to kick it off. Dave, I recall you mentioning an example you saw a few months ago, of a large quantity of scopes etc destined for destruction. Any photos?
Actually, I have video of it. But the person who let me shoot it on their premises didn't want it released, so I'll honor that.
Well, that's a moral choice. You've weighed your duty to them against their immorality and the loss to society of that equipment, and decided your duty matters more.
Others might have decided differently.
Oh, and I've read news stories in the US in the last year about people being arrested and charged with theft, for picking up stuff from kerbside council cleanup piles. Even one example in Australia I seem to recall.
Were they actually convicted?
Got any links for that?
Unfortunately I can't recall, didn't save the story or link, and can't think of a search term that works. It wasn't in any of the categories of stories I do archive.
But here's a related story:
http://www.financenews.co.uk/fnews/woman-arrested-after-taking-thrown-out-food/ (http://www.financenews.co.uk/fnews/woman-arrested-after-taking-thrown-out-food/)
'Theft by finding'... got to love the Law. That's law in Australia too.
Oh wait, here it is. Thanks google. Via discussion at http://www.weekendnotes.com.au/cleaning-up-at-council-cleanups/ (http://www.weekendnotes.com.au/cleaning-up-at-council-cleanups/)
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-stealing-vaccum-from-mooroolbark-rubbish/story-e6frf7l6-1226025965308 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-stealing-vaccum-from-mooroolbark-rubbish/story-e6frf7l6-1226025965308)
Ha ha ha! It was near where I live, and the man arrested was my age. But it wasn't me.
[Edit: Oops, no it wasn't. Misread mooroolbark as moorebank.]
Further coincidentally re 'found vacuums', I have an excellent industrial grade backpack vacuum cleaner for my workshop, that I found tossed out in front of a local church. The power cord had shorted out at the point where it flexed most, no doubt giving the user quite a fright. So instead of just fixing the cord, they tossed it. I guess they didn't have enough faith in their healing abilities. :-+
Edit: Now I think about it, I'm pretty sure that is not the Australian story I saw a while ago. Must be more than one instance then. That's not good.
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Unfortunately I can't recall, didn't save the story or link, and can't think of a search term that works. It wasn't in any of the categories of stories I do archive.
But here's a related story:
http://www.financenews.co.uk/fnews/woman-arrested-after-taking-thrown-out-food/ (http://www.financenews.co.uk/fnews/woman-arrested-after-taking-thrown-out-food/)
Facing trial != convicted
'Theft by finding'... got to love the Law. That's law in Australia too.
Got a link for that one too?
You can be arrested for anything, even looking at a cop the wrong way. Doesn't mean you are going to get found guilty of anything, or convicted.
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'Theft by finding'... got to love the Law. That's law in Australia too.
Got a link for that one too?
You can be arrested for anything, even looking at a cop the wrong way. Doesn't mean you are going to get found guilty of anything, or convicted.
Oh for... wait, did I register here under the name 'google' by mistake?
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Another sad thing I see is the amount of consumer electronics (LCD/plasma TVs, AV amplifiers, DVRs etc.) that I see thrown out with common, easy-to-fix problems. I tend to buy most faulty stuff cheap from individuals but if I could get it from dumps I would quite happily pay the council/authority for them, but they do not want to know. I fix about 90% of the stuff I get successfully, and they fix about 0%, because it all gets crushed for scrap. :(
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'Theft by finding'... got to love the Law. That's law in Australia too.
Oh for... wait, did I register here under the name 'google' by mistake?
The "Theft by Finding" law AFAIK has to do with items that have been lost by someone, not items have have been (legally? and clearly) discarded by someone.
Once again, show me someone who has been convicted of legitimate dumpster diving without trespassing.
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'Theft by finding'... got to love the Law. That's law in Australia too.
Oh for... wait, did I register here under the name 'google' by mistake?
The "Theft by Finding" law AFAIK has to do with items that have been lost by someone, not items have have been (legally? and clearly) discarded by someone.
Once again, show me someone who has been convicted of legitimate dumpster diving without trespassing.
From what I gathered from the linked articles, it seems there's a monetary incentive for the local council's (selling working items) as well as the collection companies. Makes more sense to me at any rate, rather than trespassing on government property, making a mess (public nuisance?), or other such nonsense IMHO.
I could *perhaps* see injuries as a liability issue, assuming Oz is as burdened as the US regarding frivolous law suites over the perpetrators own stupidity. But there wasn't any mention of this in either the articles or the comments below.
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From what I gathered from the linked articles, it seems there's a monetary incentive for the local council's (selling working items) as well as the collection companies. Makes more sense to me at any rate, rather than trespassing on government property, making a mess (public nuisance?), or other such nonsense IMHO.
If the local councils are making money or getting a kickback from curbside collection items then that would be quite the scandal...
I could *perhaps* see injuries as a liability issue, assuming Oz is as burdened as the US regarding frivolous law suites over the perpetrators own stupidity. But there wasn't any mention of this in either the articles or the comments below.
Thankfully it is not.
There was hint of it about a decade back, it threatened to shut down almost the entire adventure industry (due to not being able to get insurance) among others like local councils being sued for tripping on a footpath or whatever, but the government swiftly passed laws that stopped it in it's tracks.
Basically now says that you are responsible for your own stupidity. The party you are trying to sue must have knowingly and wilfully done something they know would cause you harm.
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If the local councils are making money or getting a kickback from curbside collection items then that would be quite the scandal...
"He said councils often recycled kerbside materials or sold it onto other dealers,...", which was a comment from Sen-Constable Beveridge (3rd paragraph from the bottom).
Source: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-stealing-vaccum-from-mooroolbark-rubbish/story-e6frf7l6-1226025965308 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-stealing-vaccum-from-mooroolbark-rubbish/story-e6frf7l6-1226025965308))
This is where I interpreted they're making money on it.
As per the frivolous law suites, I'm glad to hear it. :) I just wish the mess here would be sorted with such swift and definitive action. Unfortunately, there's no indication this will ever happen (too many lawyers here lobbying to keep this, as there's too much money at stake for them).
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We've just moved office, which entails a whole lot of close your eyes and chuck it out. I did a bit of dumpster diving/diverting but the garage is only so big :-//
The other thing is that we had some severe flooding her a couple of years ago, most houses hauled out their contents to the footpath to be destined for landfill. There was a lot of recoverable stuff, electrical and otherwise, but if you touched anything it was classed as looting! That was quite likely a court appearance if caught.
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I feel so strongly that there should be laws against this sort of destruction... sounds like we need a SPCE -- Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Electronics :D
It's odd that the situation in the East looks like the opposite extreme: equipment, components, etc. get recycled and reused even if they're defective, which is why you see stories about counterfeit/remarked/etc. parts. But I think environmentally and sustainably, that is still far better alternative than destroying perfectly good equipment.
Philosophical question: is it stealing if you're depriving the owner of property that the owner doesn't want? :o
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Philosophical question: is it stealing if you're depriving the owner of property that the owner doesn't want? :o
This is where it gets interesting from how I'm reading the articles though. As I read it, once an item is placed on the curb (public land), ownership is transferred to the local council by the act of setting it down on that land. And since they're apparently selling anything possible out of it, they want that additional income. Hence laws passed making it illegal for someone to walk by and take it.
For some strange reason, I can't help but think of the council equivalent to a 5 y/o on a playground saying "MINE! Hands off!". :o :P
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This is where it gets interesting from how I'm reading the articles though. As I read it, once an item is placed on the curb (public land), ownership is transferred to the local council by the act of setting it down on that land. And since they're apparently selling anything possible out of it, they want that additional income. Hence laws passed making it illegal for someone to walk by and take it.
Here in Australia any such "law" would come under local council regulations. And AFAIK, the issue is not that it becomes the councils property (I have yet to see anything that says it does), the law simply exists in order to protect the resident from people rummaging through your regular garbage bins. e.g. going through your recycling bin to steal your identity or whatever, or celebrities garbage etc. So if the resident doesn't press charges, end of story.
And once again, I have yet to hear of anyone in this country ever being convicted for simply taking curbside rubbish. It is in fact a widely practised and socially accepted thing to do.
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This is where it gets interesting from how I'm reading the articles though. As I read it, once an item is placed on the curb (public land), ownership is transferred to the local council by the act of setting it down on that land. And since they're apparently selling anything possible out of it, they want that additional income. Hence laws passed making it illegal for someone to walk by and take it.
Here in Australia any such "law" would come under local council regulations. And AFAIK, the issue is not that it becomes the councils property (I have yet to see anything that says it does), the law simply exists in order to protect the resident from people rummaging through your regular garbage bins. e.g. going through your recycling bin to steal your identity or whatever, or celebrities garbage etc. So if the resident doesn't press charges, end of story.
And once again, I have yet to hear of anyone in this country ever being convicted for simply taking curbside rubbish. It is in fact a widely practised and socially accepted thing to do.
If it's up to the resident as to press charges or not, why was the man arrested? :-//
I just don't quite understand where the discrepancy has originated (I can understand making it illegal due to things such as Identity Theft), but the comments made by Beveridge gave me the impression that it wasn't due to injury or identity theft (which do make sense to me), but rather "theft of public property" (how I interpreted the comments). Given the ability for local police officers to arrest without involving the resident, I presume the local statutes have been updated to reflect the new position. :-\
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Here if it is on the street you better be fast, or it will vanish ( I once put out a pile of cardboard boxes and left for 10 minutes, gone on return) like smoke. even if it is nailed down it will go, the building next door has had half of the fecade trim stolen this year, as it is copper clad, even with cctv recording it ( medium build, medium height, short dark curly hair and no other distinguishing features). I go shopping at the local dumpsite, you can get quite a nice bit there, providing you are prepared to do the appropriate greasing of palms.
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One "unwritten?" law is firewood removal. You legally chop down a (dangerous) tree then stack it all along the footpath nature strip
or edge of your property. This has always been considered to mean ... take it, it's FREE. It's usually gone quite quickly.
I've NEVER heard of anyone / any council kicking up a stink about that. So what's the difference if it's junk?
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I've NEVER heard of anyone / any council kicking up a stink about that. So what's the difference if it's junk?
They don't, it's quite rare to hear that.
What we have in that particular case cited is likely some cop with nothing better to do, citing some "law" that's probably never been tested in court in this aspect, and probably one local council that's had a whinge about it.
Once again, charged != convicted. There are many ifs and buts to this.
What if the original owner of the goods didn't know his goods "became the councils property" and didn't agree to that?
What if the owner intended for the good to become public domain?
Is the council really the legal owner of the goods?
Has the council effectively stolen from and profited from the owners?
That council land is also public land, how does that influence thing?
Many councils have programs that actively encourage recycling and minimisation of rubbish that goes the landfill, so was the guy charged simply doing his bit in good faith to live up to that?
And there are probably half a dozen other aspects to it.
Until a law (esp local council ones) has been tested in court, and precedents set, especially in cases like this that have many aspects to it, they don't mean much.
But newspapers, and cops, and people like to go around citing various things that may or not actually apply.
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I've NEVER heard of anyone / any council kicking up a stink about that. So what's the difference if it's junk?
They don't, it's quite rare to hear that.
What we have in that particular case cited is likely some cop with nothing better to do, citing some "law" that's probably never been tested in court in this aspect, and probably one local council that's had a whinge about it.
Once again, charged != convicted. There are many ifs and buts to this.
What if the original owner of the goods didn't know his goods "became the councils property" and didn't agree to that?
What if the owner intended for the good to become public domain?
Is the council really the legal owner of the goods?
Has the council effectively stolen from and profited from the owners?
That council land is also public land, how does that influence thing?
Many councils have programs that actively encourage recycling and minimisation of rubbish that goes the landfill, so was the guy charged simply doing his bit in good faith to live up to that?
And there are probably half a dozen other aspects to it.
Until a law (esp local council ones) has been tested in court, and precedents set, especially in cases like this that have many aspects to it, they don't mean much.
But newspapers, and cops, and people like to go around citing various things that may or not actually apply.
Knocking on your neighbours door and asking if they mind you taking something is the right thing to do and not making a mess on your neighbours verge is also the right thing to do IMO.
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Knocking on your neighbours door and asking if they mind you taking something is the right thing to do and not making a mess on your neighbours verge is also the right thing to do IMO.
Of course, that's part of the etiquette.
Those who make a mess spoil it for everyone, and lead to attempts at silly laws to stop it all.
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(http://www.radiolaurier.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/conspiracy-man-sneaking-around-in-the-dark-creepy.jpg)
dude, just rent a fucking truck and take the whole dumpster.
I don't understand why a complicated machine should ever be destroyed. It can always inspire someone or be used by someone with less capability then the previous owner.
IMO destroying that shit is like burning books, it inhibits the progress of society. Years of peoples lives went into designing and assembling that gear. And now some fucking
bureaucrat is wasting it because of some retarded ass legislation.... >:(
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If a company wants to dispose of electrical equipment, they should get certification ruling it as "disposal ready", i.e. economically worth scrap value only. If they cannot, they must pay a fee or otherwise give it away or sell it.
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There probably should be a law that publicly funded institutions must give alum's first dibs on written off equipments and are banned from destroying them. Would mostly cover uni's but it's a start.
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Knocking on your neighbours door and asking if they mind you taking something is the right thing to do and not making a mess on your neighbours verge is also the right thing to do IMO.
Of course, that's part of the etiquette.
Those who make a mess spoil it for everyone, and lead to attempts at silly laws to stop it all.
Exactly
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somebody needs to give these guys a book on the history of book burning and its results
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Well... I was walking to the shops today and saw a 26" LCD TV next to the bins... got it home (asked them and they said take it, it's faulty) and found it has a bad cap on the PSU... will turn on after warming up. Not bad for free ;). Luckily the council here isn't nuts about people dumping electronics outside their house... but where my dad lives (London) they will fine you for getting the recycling bins mixed up!
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Well... I was walking to the shops today and saw a 26" LCD TV next to the bins... got it home (asked them and they said take it, it's faulty) and found it has a bad cap on the PSU... will turn on after warming up. Not bad for free ;). Luckily the council here isn't nuts about people dumping electronics outside their house... but where my dad lives (London) they will fine you for getting the recycling bins mixed up!
sweet deal! ^-^
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Well... I was walking to the shops today and saw a 26" LCD TV next to the bins...
Put one of those in the trash here and it disappears in 30 minutes, like magic!
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Luckily the council here isn't nuts about people dumping electronics outside their house...
With my local council, if you dump anything on nature strip more than 24 hour before your scheduled pickup they class it as rubbish dumping which carries large fine.
I hate how they changed the collection system to everyone on the street being the same week, to three individual scheduled pickups a year.
So instead of having only a few days a year when the street would be filled with garbage, we now have someone do it every week.
The benefit of the big cleanup was that everyone would know about it, and would go hunting for the junk. Half of it would be gone before the truck got there, and hence inline with the councils policy of everyone (including them) shoulddo everythign they can to recycle and reduce what goes to the tip ::)
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If the local councils are making money or getting a kickback from curbside collection items then that would be quite the scandal...
Why? If a council makes more from recycling than it costs to collect, that's a benefit to taxpayers.
Failing to minimise collection costs by making money from profitable recylables would be a scandal.
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If a council makes more from recycling than it costs to collect, that's a benefit to taxpayers.
Failing to minimise collection costs by making money from profitable recylables would be a scandal.
A while ago, our council introduced the 4 bins system. GREAT ! I thought. Early on, I just missed a recyclable collection,
but since the depot is just up the road, I said to myself .. do the right thing and drop it off.
I put the stuff in my wagon and drove to the depot .. drove around until I found the truck .. where I saw them dumping
the recyclables in the LAND FILL Pile !!!!! FFS !! On enquiry .. "we can't process that much, besides it costs too much"
When I looked into it a bit more, it got worse !! So now I don't ask .. problem FIXED :-)
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A while ago, our council introduced the 4 bins system.
1) General waste (for landfill)
2) Recycling (paper, bottles, cans, etc)
3) Green waste (leaves, shrubs, etc)
4) ??
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4) ??
Hazardous / Electronic waste !! It was an awesome idea, cute bin. Only lasted a few weeks, maybe after I asked questions
when I caught them?? Only supposing here :-)
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At work, we keep the scrap (insulated) wire for taking to the local metal recycler about once a year (when we get ~ 150kg of it). We do have to cut any connectors off, but they accept it with the PVC covering. They also accept power transformers (for the copper content) as well as steel (hardly worth it) and aluminium.
Fluorescent tubes are expensive to send for recycling (about $80 per 60 4' tubes), but our paper/cardboard/plastic recycling bins are full every fortnight and the service doesn't cost much.
Lately I've been giving a lot of electronic components and equipment away (Hackerspace, etc) rather than bin it. Hopefully that gives it a better chance of avoiding the land fill. I used to hoard a lot of electronic stuff, but the time has come to reclaim that lost space and give it to someone else to use, or hoard!
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transformers are expensive, hackerspace that stuff!
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transformers are expensive, hackerspace that stuff!
The transformers that are recycled are dead ones. The good (but not used by us) go to the hackerspace guys.
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50 million dollars might be saved every year if only those companies would do the the right thing.
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and they ban the lead from the solder for this insane reason to fill deliberately the landfills with electronics due to idiot managment and laws, how quickly could the new generation learn if those equipments would end up in their hands instead of the landfills, or to schools poorly equipped etc, universities should have give to the intrested students the equipments they no longer use instead of binning it
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OK That was spooky .. Just saw the local news that our Waverley council has (Re-?) Introduced free Electronic waste drop-offs,
Including CRTs ... mebbe they're monitoring my posts ???? or me ???
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OK That was spooky .. Just saw the local news that our Waverley council has (Re-?) Introduced free Electronic waste drop-offs,
Including CRTs ... mebbe they're monitoring my posts ???? or me ???
Maybe they watched a youtube video on recovering gold from mobile phones and such. Supposedly quite a lucrative process.
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and they ban the lead from the solder for this insane reason to fill deliberately the landfills with electronics due to idiot managment and laws, how quickly could the new generation learn if those equipments would end up in their hands instead of the landfills, or to schools poorly equipped etc, universities should have give to the intrested students the equipments they no longer use instead of binning it
Exactly. I would be thrilled to learn about any sort of gear if I had a chance to play with it. Now no one will.
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I die once a year :-\
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I literaly just registerd to chime in on this very topic.
I used to work for one of the big box office stores here in the US and their policy was we had to destroy any items the manufacture didn't want back and toss it into the dumpster. This would include most small electronics from digital cameras to mp3 players to routers, almost all office supplies that didn't sell or were opened/damaged, and even 24packs of water that had a bottle damaged or it expired. Now i'm not saying that destroying a $1000 projector that someone used once or a pack of 23 bottles of water can't be a little fun but totaly wastefull. Most of it of course went into the dumpster unharmed and retrived as quickly as possible by myself or another employee that was off at the time. I still use a Samsung all-in-one laser printer that was opened and never used. It was pretty funny when I went to fetch it too. The daily dumpster divers got there about two minutes before I did so I called the guy who just put it out to help me convince them it was junk. So he came out with a large trash bag full of paper and made a comment about what bad shape it was in and I offered them what I had in my wallet for it. Which if I remember correctly was $4. Not a bad deal for what was around $500 new. We would also bring all the office supplys to one of the local elementry schools, gotta help someone when you profit from whats technically trash. But to bring it full circle the other employee was questioned and caught for it and then got charged for theft. He ended up with just being fired but he was charged by the state a fine around $700 since it was still declared a crime. Not really too bad though since digital cameras and mp3 playes fetched a lot of money off ebay. But the next two people who had the same job got fired for doing the same thing.
I'm currently a Cisco VoIP engineer for a large IT company whos name I won't mention (caugh... it's two letters long) on a contract for another large corporation and it's pretty bad here too. The company I'm contracted too aquired another and when migrating parts of their VoIP network into the existing it left a lot of less than a year old servers free. So instead of shipping them to us where we'd use them in our lab they went to a shredder company for destruction. There was probably 20-30 of them in total, I'm not sure of their initial cost but still a lot of value just wasted. But the rules of the company I accually work for are very different. We can get almost anything shipped to us where it can accually get reused and not wasted. Then after a little while it sort of winds up in limbo and finds a great home in another lab outside the office. Best recycling ever and is great for getting certifications and trust me used Cisco gear still fetchs a high price on the used market so the less you buy the better. Once I'm done or decide to move on I can bring it all back and it's no longer collecting dust in my garage. Of course we also have a recycling program to pick up unused equipment but we fill out the list of what to send off so what doesn't make it is never missed. So sometimes the lack of efficiency in a large company can be great.
I think what I've learned is as long as your not greedy you might be able to score something for yourself. It's also why I like to bring random boxes in and out of the office, sometimes empty... :)
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I literaly just registerd to chime in on this very topic.
I used to work for one of the big box office stores here in the US and their policy was we had to destroy any items the manufacture didn't want back and toss it into the dumpster. This would include most small electronics from digital cameras to mp3 players to routers, almost all office supplies that didn't sell or were opened/damaged, and even 24packs of water that had a bottle damaged or it expired. Now i'm not saying that destroying a $1000 projector that someone used once or a pack of 23 bottles of water can't be a little fun but totaly wastefull. Most of it of course went into the dumpster unharmed and retrived as quickly as possible by myself or another employee that was off at the time. I still use a Samsung all-in-one laser printer that was opened and never used. It was pretty funny when I went to fetch it too. The daily dumpster divers got there about two minutes before I did so I called the guy who just put it out to help me convince them it was junk. So he came out with a large trash bag full of paper and made a comment about what bad shape it was in and I offered them what I had in my wallet for it. Which if I remember correctly was $4. Not a bad deal for what was around $500 new. We would also bring all the office supplys to one of the local elementry schools, gotta help someone when you profit from whats technically trash. But to bring it full circle the other employee was questioned and caught for it and then got charged for theft. He ended up with just being fired but he was charged by the state a fine around $700 since it was still declared a crime. Not really too bad though since digital cameras and mp3 playes fetched a lot of money off ebay. But the next two people who had the same job got fired for doing the same thing.
I'm currently a Cisco VoIP engineer for a large IT company whos name I won't mention (caugh... it's two letters long) on a contract for another large corporation and it's pretty bad here too. The company I'm contracted too aquired another and when migrating parts of their VoIP network into the existing it left a lot of less than a year old servers free. So instead of shipping them to us where we'd use them in our lab they went to a shredder company for destruction. There was probably 20-30 of them in total, I'm not sure of their initial cost but still a lot of value just wasted. But the rules of the company I accually work for are very different. We can get almost anything shipped to us where it can accually get reused and not wasted. Then after a little while it sort of winds up in limbo and finds a great home in another lab outside the office. Best recycling ever and is great for getting certifications and trust me used Cisco gear still fetchs a high price on the used market so the less you buy the better. Once I'm done or decide to move on I can bring it all back and it's no longer collecting dust in my garage. Of course we also have a recycling program to pick up unused equipment but we fill out the list of what to send off so what doesn't make it is never missed. So sometimes the lack of efficiency in a large company can be great.
I think what I've learned is as long as your not greedy you might be able to score something for yourself. It's also why I like to bring random boxes in and out of the office, sometimes empty... :)
I'm glad my topic got you on to this forum. It's the best electronics forum on the web, that I know of!
I wish I could get away with hauling out a box of discarded goodies. I guess most of us need to pay for all of our gear.
I'm sure every interested student employee could have walked away with a bench power supply from the latest dumping.
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I used to recycle old autopilots to keep the rest of the fleet running. Take one cubic metre mostly mechanical box with nearly 1000 syncros, resolvers, adders, subtractors and other synchro goodies and use them as needed as spares. Those that were unusable for some reason ( no call for a sine/cosine adder) became a source of small bearings and coils mostly to keep fans running. What was not used went into a big hole where a bulldozer drove over it.
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I ask all eevblog members for a moment of silence for all that poor test equipment.
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I used to recycle old autopilots to keep the rest of the fleet running. Take one cubic metre mostly mechanical box with nearly 1000 syncros, resolvers, adders, subtractors and other synchro goodies and use them as needed as spares. Those that were unusable for some reason ( no call for a sine/cosine adder) became a source of small bearings and coils mostly to keep fans running. What was not used went into a big hole where a bulldozer drove over it.
A sine addee wow look funny!
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I literaly just registerd to chime in on this very topic.
I used to work for one of the big box office stores here in the US and their policy was we had to destroy any items the manufacture didn't want back and toss it into the dumpster. This would include most small electronics from digital cameras to mp3 players to routers, almost all office supplies that didn't sell or were opened/damaged, and even 24packs of water that had a bottle damaged or it expired. Now i'm not saying that destroying a $1000 projector that someone used once or a pack of 23 bottles of water can't be a little fun but totaly wastefull. Most of it of course went into the dumpster unharmed and retrived as quickly as possible by myself or another employee that was off at the time. I still use a Samsung all-in-one laser printer that was opened and never used. It was pretty funny when I went to fetch it too. The daily dumpster divers got there about two minutes before I did so I called the guy who just put it out to help me convince them it was junk. So he came out with a large trash bag full of paper and made a comment about what bad shape it was in and I offered them what I had in my wallet for it. Which if I remember correctly was $4. Not a bad deal for what was around $500 new. We would also bring all the office supplys to one of the local elementry schools, gotta help someone when you profit from whats technically trash. But to bring it full circle the other employee was questioned and caught for it and then got charged for theft. He ended up with just being fired but he was charged by the state a fine around $700 since it was still declared a crime. Not really too bad though since digital cameras and mp3 playes fetched a lot of money off ebay. But the next two people who had the same job got fired for doing the same thing.
I'm currently a Cisco VoIP engineer for a large IT company whos name I won't mention (caugh... it's two letters long) on a contract for another large corporation and it's pretty bad here too. The company I'm contracted too aquired another and when migrating parts of their VoIP network into the existing it left a lot of less than a year old servers free. So instead of shipping them to us where we'd use them in our lab they went to a shredder company for destruction. There was probably 20-30 of them in total, I'm not sure of their initial cost but still a lot of value just wasted. But the rules of the company I accually work for are very different. We can get almost anything shipped to us where it can accually get reused and not wasted. Then after a little while it sort of winds up in limbo and finds a great home in another lab outside the office. Best recycling ever and is great for getting certifications and trust me used Cisco gear still fetchs a high price on the used market so the less you buy the better. Once I'm done or decide to move on I can bring it all back and it's no longer collecting dust in my garage. Of course we also have a recycling program to pick up unused equipment but we fill out the list of what to send off so what doesn't make it is never missed. So sometimes the lack of efficiency in a large company can be great.
I think what I've learned is as long as your not greedy you might be able to score something for yourself. It's also why I like to bring random boxes in and out of the office, sometimes empty... :)
you have it better than most.
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:'( reminds me of flanders fields :'(
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I was once a co-op at a small Louisville company. However, they didn't have anything for me to do, so I got contracted out to work a the development building at GE's appliance park. I would finish my week's black box testing after about two days, so the rest of the time I'd poke around and explore. There was a huge refrigerator box of electronic parts that were destined for recycling, and many of them were brand new leftovers. I asked my bosses if I could take some home, and they said they didn't care. I'm sure it was completely against company policy, but I spent about a month rummaging through this bin with my legs dangling out, and scored all kinds of cool stuff, including 8 or 9 extremely high quality pixel matrix VFDs.
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I ask all eevblog members for a moment of silence for all that poor test equipment.
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Might be better to ask Dave for a permanent forum topic.
Seriously, the way the Australian laws and accounting systems are set up to cause this, is really evil. And it persists due to the lack of public awareness of how ubiquitous it is. Having a permanently accessible and easily findable discussion place for anyone to post details of examples of this wanton destruction they see, really could go a long way to fixing the fundamental causes. It's a political issue, that can only be fought politically. And that takes public awareness.
One little bit of legislation, saying depreciated / written-off items can be given away or sold for less than (say) 5% of original purchase value without impacting the depreciation & rebates accounting, would go a long way to fixing this.
Going further and making it a criminal offense to destroy equipment/items that could reasonably be usefully used by someone else, without making a reasonable attempt to make the items publicly available, would be even better.
Here's another example. Years ago a Johnson & Johnson pharmaceutical supplies factory/warehouse in Matraville was shutting down. A lady GP I knew was told by contacts that there was a whole doctor's clinic there that has been shuttered, complete with all the equipment. She had overseas contacts in some poor nations, and inquired if she could go to the site and see if any of the equipment could be donated to doctors in those poor countries. A J&J representative gave the OK, and arranged a time. I got asked if I wanted to come along, since apparently there might be some electronics gear there too.
At the site our 'guide' was a smarmy little man. Not to mention ethnic stereotypes, but I groaned inside, recognizing immediately a particular syndrome of bullshit laying that was likely to happen here. So we got a tour of the place, with Mr Smarmy at all times pretending that sure, it was very likely my doctor friend could have what she asked for. The place was being gutted, mostly empty.... except for the rows and rows of pallets of pharmaceutical/chemist/medical supplies, mostly shrink wrapped. All 'stock to be disposed of' according to Mr Smarmy. The clinic was well equipped, all just sitting there gathering dust. Also chemical labs, with demolition begun. One electronics lab, stripped. Except for one thing randomly left in a drawer among some junk - a beautiful electric field strength meter. No, I couldn't have it. Why not? Umm... because.
It turned out my doctor friend couldn't have anything either. Mr Smarmy's job that day was to present a reasonable, sensitive J&J corporate face, while never actually admitting that it was all going to be shredded regardless, and there was no way anyone was going to be given anything. I could tell he was really enjoying his day.
Edit: Coincidentally, just got a spam email from this group: http://www.change.org/en-AU (http://www.change.org/en-AU)
Something to consider.
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It's not just equipment that is needlessly destroyed, but places like supermarkets just dispose of food that has gone past the "sell by" date but is still perfectly healthy to eat. Also, I was going past a Comet superstore (electronics: TVs, computers etc.) after closing and decided to look in the bins. (I'm a dumpster junkie...) I spotted a nice TV glass cantilever stand... it looked intact but the box was pretty badly torn up. Got it home, and couldn't complete assembly due to a single missing bolt, found that, put it together and it works great. All for the price of a single bolt... Ridiculous. No wonder they went bust...
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My local supermarket will put stuff near expiry ( but not past it, or that is obviously off) out in a special section of refrigerated shelving with a massively reduced price ( and a red sticker) so that it does not go to waste. You can buy a lot of food that way, and you find a lot of pensioners lined up for the selection when it gets unpacked. On a fixed small income any savings mean you can have the odd luxury every so often.
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Thought I'd make a quick video on electronic offerings in this year's kerbside collection (suburban Melbourne)
Not so many desktop computers or CRT TVs this year - but a few other bits and pieces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AQIMjSlTJU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AQIMjSlTJU)
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Hiya
Come on people, it's frigg'n dumpster diving!
Name one person, anywhere, who has a criminal record because of dumpster diving when they are not trespassing.
In my hospital we had someone successfully prosecuted by NHS Fraud and sacked for taking something out of a dumpster on the premises last year.
At least some managers bypass that and give me electronics bits to tear down rather than go in the bin.
Cheers
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Worst example of corporate waste I've heard of.
The large US car companies (GM et all) that make electric cars have the batteries made by other companies, yet lack anyone in the car plant that can repair said batteries.
So brand new EV battery packs with faulty electronics, broken wires or other easily fixed fault get send direct to recycling. The recycling company involved aren't that stupid and have taken to reusing the battery modules.
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In my hospital we had someone successfully prosecuted by NHS Fraud and sacked for taking something out of a dumpster on the premises last year.
At least some managers bypass that and give me electronics bits to tear down rather than go in the bin.
Cheers
In a lot of countries, trash can't be stolen, as you've already given up ownership. Otherwise it would mean the waste collector commits a crime at every address.
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One thing that is useful is the gas lift in office chairs and the base with castors. They can be used to make a nice stable pot-plant stand.
Now that's what I call creative recycling. :clap:
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I forgot to mention that there was some government official standing at the crusher marking down each serial number as each bit of equipment got thrown in.
And the government can't figure out why our companies can't compete in the world market. "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo
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I hate this kind of waste, it's usually political more than anything. There's usually a reason for it but they're all stupid reasons imo. It's waste, pure waste.
It's even more horrible in the insurance industry, things that could be going to less fortunate people like clothing get destroyed. Like say a clothing store gets a flood they just write off everything and order it destroyed. Those are the kind of things that make me hate humanity.
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Where in Melbourne do they still put rubbish out en-masse for footpath collection? My council just does them on request. But it is close to inner city and footpaths filled with rubbish is probably more of a problem where density is higher.
City of Kingston. Some suburbs has been collected but you're not too late for other areas http://www.kingston.vic.gov.au/Services/Rubbish-and-Recycling/Hard-Waste-Collection (http://www.kingston.vic.gov.au/Services/Rubbish-and-Recycling/Hard-Waste-Collection)
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Quick note as I used to deal in electronics years ago. If you find out who the recycler is, they will probably sell you the stuff rather than recycle it. It’s much more profitable to sell it to you than recycle it. There are a few people I know who work for WEEE disposal here in the U.K. and they to this day resell more stuff than they crush and part out.
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The City of Darebin still has the kerb side collections and the last flyer they sent out just prior declared that professional scroungers would be prosecuted, we did witness many large vans collecting white goods, bed frames and other metallic objects probably for the scrap metal value, I've just moved to the City of Whittlesea and not unlike the council itself have little or no clue as to the goings on up this way. ::) :P
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Most of this is due to scrooge-type bureaucracy. Departments have a budget, but if a department improves its efficiency and reduces its costs, then it gets penalized by having its budget reduced. So, they always use up their budget so it can't be reduced next year. If they don't actually need new gear they just throw away some serviceable stuff. I recall employees at a certain defence manufacturer reporting that a skip full of near-new electronics hand tools was sent to landfill. Employees were strictly warned not to take any of them for personal use. Probably because if they were seen around then someone might twig that they didn't need replacing. :-X
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The NHS are worse. My brother-in-law handles a trust's inventory. They just paid a recycler to take 500-ish monitors and desktops away. These hadn't even been unboxed. They fucked up their windows 7 deployment so they just sat there for 4 years. Then they bought new ones for windows 10 which are sitting in a warehouse and they can't proceed because the clinical systems don't work on windows 10 yet ... :palm:
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In 2017, some electronics units were sent to scrap yard by an economic court for a crime they didn't commit. Some EE promptly escaped from a maximum-security stockade to the EEVBlog underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as engineers of fortune. If you have an EE problem... if no one else can help... and if you can find them... maybe you can hire... The EE SWAT-Team
We should set up an EE SWAT Team, only trained people with no fear. We don't follow company laws, we don't care about taxes, we just want justice.
If you ever see EE equipment going to the scrap yard call us.
We will make justice and rescue what can be saved.
For Germany and Italy area I will coordinate the operations. Send me a PM.
No, it´s not a joke.
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We just destroyed thousands and thousands of mostly working 5-year old Motorola portable radios, chargers, accessories etc... Only because they were fitted with strong encryption capabilities not available to the general public, so in the shredder they go.
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I think for the "professional scroungers" they regard them as theives because it reduces the scrap value the contractors receive and they in turn charge the ratepayes a higher fee. Ordinary folk tend to take a different sort of stuff that probably doesn't overlap the money scrap so much. I dislike the people who cut power cords off everything, even servicable stuff.
My council used to have regular 5 times a year scrap and electronics collections. The council could not deal with the number of "professional scroungers" so they changed the collection from a regular scheduled pickup to one that you need to book a pickup time. We still get 5 x scrap and 5 x electronics free pickups but the "scroungers" don't know when a pickup will be made. This stopped them coming.
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We just destroyed thousands and thousands of mostly working 5-year old Motorola portable radios, chargers, accessories etc... Only because they were fitted with strong encryption capabilities not available to the general public, so in the shredder they go.
Military? I'm not surprised. After all, they constantly handle things that are built to destroy and be destroyed...
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I have a little experience with this. Look for the local e waste recyclers. Call a few and see if they offer disposal of government or financial computer systems. That will probably be the place they are taking it. Most counties have an E Waste place that handles all of the government hard drives and bank computers. Certain public offices must destroy their systems every few years for security reasons. At my local one the high sensitivity things like hard drives and such go right into a shredder. Its kinda neat to watch. Computers go in, finely ground scraps come out. This is then separated into plastics, ferrous metals, non ferrous metals, and then other junk. Non critical items are evaluated for any secondary value or for repair. Certain things are saved to collect replacement parts or batteries and such from, then into the shredder it goes. The ground and sorted result is shipped to stockton, and then to china to be recycled. Of course we know that probably just means dumped and or burned there, then chemically leach heap metal recovery, then into the ground water system it goes. Etc.
And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon, little......... Recycle.. :-DD
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Most of this is due to scrooge-type bureaucracy. Departments have a budget, but if a department improves its efficiency and reduces its costs, then it gets penalized by having its budget reduced. So, they always use up their budget so it can't be reduced next year. If they don't actually need new gear they just throw away some serviceable stuff. I recall employees at a certain defence manufacturer reporting that a skip full of near-new electronics hand tools was sent to landfill. Employees were strictly warned not to take any of them for personal use. Probably because if they were seen around then someone might twig that they didn't need replacing. :-X
This style of budgeting is the most retarded thing, but it's sadly more or less the norm at most companies, and especially government. It's so wasteful. I worked at a hospital, it is sad the amount of stuff I saw get wasted, and that's all tax dollars too, so it makes it even more enraging. Thankfully we were sometimes allowed to keep stuff. But I did not need over 9,000 power cords, so I did have to let some stuff go to the bin. But looking back I kinda regret not taking them, I could have at least brought them to the copper recycler. Ironicly I probably would have donated the money to the hospital foundation... They probably had some weird political reason as to why they could not do that.
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We just destroyed thousands and thousands of mostly working 5-year old Motorola portable radios, chargers, accessories etc... Only because they were fitted with strong encryption capabilities not available to the general public, so in the shredder they go.
The restrictions on strong encryption always puzzle me. It's not like AES512 wouldn't be almost the exact same thing, just computationally more expensive, and by all accounts as unbreakable as any other strong solution would be.
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We just destroyed thousands and thousands of mostly working 5-year old Motorola portable radios, chargers, accessories etc... Only because they were fitted with strong encryption capabilities not available to the general public, so in the shredder they go.
The restrictions on strong encryption always puzzle me. It's not like AES512 wouldn't be almost the exact same thing, just computationally more expensive, and by all accounts as unbreakable as any other strong solution would be.
It's largely an artifact of the way things were in the 1970s to 1990s, when encryption technology was considered a military asset and export controlled. At the time all public algorithms were weak or had been modified in some way by security agencies (DES s-box).
There are some encryption algorithms that are top secret: the NSA calls them "Suite A". There are other algorithms that are public, but approved for classified government use, which were formerly called "Suite B", and now called "Suite CNSA (Commercial National Security Algorithms) (https://pomcor.com/2016/02/09/nsas-faqs-demystify-the-demise-of-suite-b-but-fail-to-explain-one-important-detail/)". The Suite A algorithms aren't necessarily stronger, but being secret does reduce the population of cryptologists that can try to attack them. It also allows the implementations to be restricted in how they are used, which protects against some types of user errors. Suite A keys are heavily restricted, for example: it isn't possible for users to generate their own, but they must come from the security agencies. It also helps to introduce backdoors into systems sold to foreign militaries without the chance of them being discovered.
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It's largely an artifact of the way things were in the 1970s to 1990s, when encryption technology was considered a military asset and export controlled. At the time all public algorithms were weak or had been modified in some way by security agencies (DES s-box).
There are some encryption algorithms that are top secret: the NSA calls them "Suite A". There are other algorithms that are public, but approved for classified government use, which were formerly called "Suite B", and now called "Suite CNSA (Commercial National Security Algorithms) (https://pomcor.com/2016/02/09/nsas-faqs-demystify-the-demise-of-suite-b-but-fail-to-explain-one-important-detail/)". The Suite A algorithms aren't necessarily stronger, but being secret does reduce the population of cryptologists that can try to attack them. It also allows the implementations to be restricted in how they are used, which protects against some types of user errors. Suite A keys are heavily restricted, for example: it isn't possible for users to generate their own, but they must come from the security agencies. It also helps to introduce backdoors into systems sold to foreign militaries without the chance of them being discovered.
Security by obscurity. Nice. Not only are these algorythms much less tested and scrutinized for vulnerabilities, it's also easier to be lulled into a false sense of security.
Then again, these lads are supposed to be the best and brightest, so I won't pretend to casually know better ;D
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It just occurred to me that there is a solution to the tax write down part of this issue. As always, it comes down to making greed work for you. It will take a while to implement as it requires legislation, but keep the greed thing in mind.
The problem is the government doesn't want to see its tax revenue damaged by companies writing down the value of equipment, and then benefiting from that "zero value" asset. So instead of requiring destruction, make it a crime to destroy it - require it to be sold with proceeds going to the government. New revenue is always attractive to government so this has a real chance of flying.
We will benefit because the gear won't be destroyed, and likely will be relatively low cost. The only losers are the TE makers who will have a slightly smaller market for new gear. But only slightly because there are few of us ogling these discarded items who can afford the new stuff.
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this is madness
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Greta need to get on this case! Reusage and repair of electronic equipment (and other things) would have a massive positive environmental impact!