I quit my EE studying in university.. can I still work in electronics ?

[Louai]

I've read all the replies on my post, I can't touch on every one but I want to state somethings and correct some misunderstandings :
First thank's for everybody who tries to help me with giving me good advice and things that he learned from his life experience, even when this advice doesn't help me thank you for your good intention.
on the other hand there are some commentators that I have no heart to thank them, because I can't see the good intention there, for example people who would largely and so easily misjudge me or downgrade my abilities, it's hard for me to take what you say seriously because you got this important thing wrong from in the first place, I want to say to these people that they are NOT my employers, and that I would not like to work for employers like this.

Saying that a graduate of EE degree means that he can get the job done is very simple way of thinking, it's the big reason why I don't like how the world function in this matter, I understand of course that many if not most of the employers in this field specifically look at it this way but it's wrong assessment and very simplistic. Maybe you say, I'm not an employer and it doesn't matter what I think, OK..  but I'm correcting your thoughts about this issue so that hopefully you won't make the same simple assessment of someone's abilities just by looking at finishing his degree as a sign of "getting the job done" type of person, you can believe whatever nonsense you want though.

I know my self better than others do! and one thing I know about myself now after long experience in academics and self teaching and experimenting with these two is that I definitely learn much better with self teaching and self directed learning than the shitty traditional way of teaching in university, even what I learned in university was almost all on my own.
I stayed in university for long time DESPITE knowing that I'm not the type of person that fits with that model of teaching in order to get the shitty vain piece of paper only and because I'm stubborn, and not for learning or learning how to learn.. but I stated that there are financial reasons and family obligations that added salt on the injury and brought me to an impossible situation where it's not helpful to keep doing this, there is a limit for every person's patience and stubbornness, because we are humans.

Going back to university for finishing my degree is not going to happen in the coming near future, maybe after some years yes but I hope I wouldn't NEED to do that again and start all over from the beginning, it's impossible, thank you for those who advised me to go back and FINISH it, but this is not going to happen, even if it was a better option in general, but sure not in my case.
So I took a HARD decision to leave university, and loose the shitty credits that I gathered and are not all transferable, because it's a dump system.
I can though take courses online (from accredited or non accredited platforms) and maybe some courses in the formal way if they are practical and short term and not expensive, you know something reasonable that is not 4 years or even 2 years of same shitty way of teaching.

Now I hope things are more clear, the advice I'm seeking mostly is about what should I do next not about reconsidering my decision of leaving university.
I like electronics and I want to work in this field, the most helpful advises would be from people who have experience going this route and succeeding in it if there are some people here like that, or help me imagine a road map for the future in how to get to this goal, or showing me examples of others who did it and how. In the end those people exist I'm not talking about science fiction, take for example Jeri Ellsworth.

[tpowell1830]

I've read all the replies on my post, I can't touch on every one but I want to state somethings and correct some misunderstandings :
First thank's for everybody who tries to help me with giving me good advice and things that he learned from his life experience, even when this advice doesn't help me thank you for your good intention.
on the other hand there are some commentators that I have no heart to thank them, because I can't see the good intention there, for example people who would largely and so easily misjudge me or downgrade my abilities, it's hard for me to take what you say seriously because you got this important thing wrong from in the first place, I want to say to these people that they are NOT my employers, and that I would not like to work for employers like this.

Saying that a graduate of EE degree means that he can get the job done is very simple way of thinking, it's the big reason why I don't like how the world function in this matter, I understand of course that many if not most of the employers in this field specifically look at it this way but it's wrong assessment and very simplistic. Maybe you say, I'm not an employer and it doesn't matter what I think, OK..  but I'm correcting your thoughts about this issue so that hopefully you won't make the same simple assessment of someone's abilities just by looking at finishing his degree as a sign of "getting the job done" type of person, you can believe whatever nonsense you want though.

I know my self better than others do! and one thing I know about myself now after long experience in academics and self teaching and experimenting with these two is that I definitely learn much better with self teaching and self directed learning than the shitty traditional way of teaching in university, even what I learned in university was almost all on my own.
I stayed in university for long time DESPITE knowing that I'm not the type of person that fits with that model of teaching in order to get the shitty vain piece of paper only and because I'm stubborn, and not for learning or learning how to learn.. but I stated that there are financial reasons and family obligations that added salt on the injury and brought me to an impossible situation where it's not helpful to keep doing this, there is a limit for every person's patience and stubbornness, because we are humans.

Going back to university for finishing my degree is not going to happen in the coming near future, maybe after some years yes but I hope I wouldn't NEED to do that again and start all over from the beginning, it's impossible, thank you for those who advised me to go back and FINISH it, but this is not going to happen, even if it was a better option in general, but sure not in my case.
So I took a HARD decision to leave university, and loose the shitty credits that I gathered and are not all transferable, because it's a dump system.
I can though take courses online (from accredited or non accredited platforms especially) and maybe some courses in the formal way if they are practical and short term and not expensive, you know something reasonable that is not 4 years or even 2 years of same shitty way of teaching.

Now I hope things are more clear, the advice I'm seeking mostly is about what should I do next not about reconsidering my decision of leaving university.
I like electronics and I want to work in this field, the most helpful advises would be from people who have experience going this route and succeeding in it if there are some people here like that, or help me imagine a road map for the future in how to get to this goal, or showing me examples of others who did it and how. In the end those people exist I'm not talking about science fiction, take for example Jeri Ellsworth.

You are 28 years old. The best advice from an old man that I can give you in order for you to get a job as an EE is to get a degree. Your chances of becoming an EE without a degree is tiny, less than 1% chance. If you read my posts you will realize that. Jeri Elsworth is the exception to the rule. She had an innate ability to understand the principles of electronics without school. She hung around with a lot of technical people as a result of her involvement with videos and YouTube and other social type web sources and clearly demonstrated her ability to the world. Her interest and drive got her to be a co-owner of a company (unfortunately that went under), plus she was in the right places at the right time, but without her genius in understanding the tech, it would not have happened.

I don't know you, so I have no idea if you have that genius or not, but it takes that extra ingredient to be able to get recognized as being capable as an EE. That extra ingredient is sheer luck and personality. Without that magical combination, it most likely will not happen for you. I did not finish school and get a piece of paper that would have opened so many doors for me and solidified positions along the way. Although I learned electronics along the way, I am not a genius and my personality is not a popular one, so no, I am not an EE, and frankly at 64, I will never be.

The other option that has been mentioned is to be an entrepreneur and start your own company. You can then hire degreed or simply genius EEs to do the hard work that they learned the hard way or in school, or both is most likely. As Red Greene says "If you're not handsome, it helps to be handy.". So, if you want a job as an EE here in the US without a degree, you have to really know your stuff and be in the right place at the right time.

Just my 2 cents...

[IanB]

I've read all the replies on my post, I can't touch on every one but I want to state somethings and correct some misunderstandings : ...

Several times in your reply you write "shitty this" and "shitty that":

the shitty traditional way of teaching

the shitty vain piece of paper

the shitty credits that I gathered

shitty way of teaching

This does not reflect well on your attitude to life.

Some people try to adapt the world to suit them, and some people try to adapt to the way the world is.

People who refuse to adapt and who try to make the world conform to their wishes are going to struggle in life.

You really need to think about how you are going to succeed doing anything with your current outlook.

[tggzzz]

While in HP Labs we occasionally pondered the what are the valid reasons for doing a PhD. The only one we could find was "because I want to". Invalid ones included better job prospects, pay etc.

Research. Especially at universities or anything government funded.

If you want to do research, PhD is a must - pretty much nobody is going to give you a formal research position unless you have it. You can be a great engineer even without a degree (rare but happens) but you can't be a researcher without a PhD - not because PhDs know some special sauce but because nobody will hire you. The doctorate is often literally a legal requirement for filling positions at universities and in research institutes (even non-tenure track) and also on many grants. If the guy or gal don't have the degree, they can't be written into the grant application documents.

Ach, i should have mentioned that! Of course you are referring to academic research and the academic career ladder. It is far less clear for industrial research, of the kind we were doing in HP Labs.

[IanMacdonald]

Having worked in industrial training and in assessing people for training, I'd always prefer the guy with hands-on experience to the guy with a stack of bits of paper.

That's just my take though. You will encounter two types if interviewers; the trade professional and the personnel manager who knows nothing about the job. The latter will always go by number of bits of paper because he doesn't have any other yardstick to assess the candidate by. So, not having bits of paper can be a problem.

A favourite ploy of mine would be to give the candidate a job that cannot be done. For example, a repair in which an unobtainable component is blown. I just want to see if he handles that in a professional manner or throws his toys out of the pram, so to speak. The guy with the stack of certs and no real world experience will invariably do the latter. The guy with some experience, even if only hobbyist, will typically report in apologetic tones  that he cannot do the job, and expect to be failed. I would reply no, that's a pass. You correctly assessed the job, which is what I wanted.

[tggzzz]

Having worked in industrial training and in assessing people for training, I'd always prefer the guy with hands-on experience to the guy with a stack of bits of paper.

Having worked in industry and assessing people for employment, I've always rejected people with only practical experience and rejected people with only theoretical experience.

I have come across one person that had excellent theoretical knowledge without a degree; he started work in the late 40s when very few people went to university. I have come across many "practical is all you need people" that are great time-wasters because they don't realise what they don't know, and spend a long time chasing down alleys that are known to be dead-ends.

The people I've recommended for employment demonstrate they know the theory and demonstrate they have used it to shape their practical work - and vice versa.

[Beamin]

We must never forget, however, that both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates dropped out of school. Then, they hired all those BS, MS, and PhDs to work on their dreams, and became billionairs.

So, it's all about  the "path" you decide to take.

Yes, we need BS, MS, and PhDs to get things done today. But, that doesn't necessarily mean you personally have to have these things.

True but how many bill gates and steve jobs are there? Two. The odds of that are very slim. They were also very lucky to be in the right place at the right time. For normal people you need a degree.

[Kjelt]

Now I hope things are more clear, the advice I'm seeking mostly is about what should I do next

Try find a job, any job, see how that works.
I can't help you there, between me dropping my MBA and restarting EE at night college there were a few years where I tried finding nicely paid jobs.
But besides getting a very low payed wage for servicing computers in a store from monday till saturday from 9.00-19.00 and even 23.30 at fridays and getting paid about 25% of what I currently earn, there was just unemployment.
After graduation companies were pulling at me to start coming to work. A degree (any degree) might seem stupid but it sure helps getting in a company door.

So I hope you have better luck and find something you like, the economy is doing pretty well here, not sure about the US when I hear those stories of graduated people parking cars  .
In the end each lifepath is unique and trying to emulate someone elses lifepath or follow their advise will usually fail due to other circumstances, changes in tech and/or different society, luck , network etc. etc.
There are just too many variables I guess. The only thing that really might help you is your social network, if someone from that network knows what you are capable of, (s)he might get you a job.

[janoc]

The keyword there is "give you".

The University Degree is about convincing other people to "give you" a chance.

But, nothing stopping you from giving yourself a chance, by going for it, without asking others permission.

Yes, sure. You can do whatever you want, of course. However, if you want to work within the system, you don't have a choice.

[LaserSteve]

CAUTION< GHOST OF CHRISTMAS PAST RANT MODE ENABLED>

    I'm a non-degreed Engineer.  I could not hack the math at the college level. I was not ready for it, but I could do it now.    Ironically I now  work at the university where I didn't make it, supporting graduate  research and teaching of engineering students.  They recruited me.  But only on a "soft money" basis at first, which means you only have a job for the duration of the research grant awarded to a professor.   



      I went off and  did straight A's in a pretty  much useless degree in education with teaching fields of  history/geography/political science.  I had to switch to another university to clear the bad grades from Calculus, even though I had good grades in Chem  and Physics.   Having that on the paper confuses HR to no end.

  It took ten years working at the university, followed by four years in four different contract jobs in private industry, followed by three more years at the university to become a Senior Technician, and be awarded permanent status.

    Only once in my career has my business card read "Engineer", and a corporation can award that status in my State if the work involved is not concerned with safety of life.


  LISTEN UP.  Don't quit.  I make 1/3rd of what my entry level Doctoral level colleagues do. I make 30,000$ less then my contemporary EE colleagues make.  Getting a good paying  job with a career track took a decade and a half of climbing the ladder.

    Trust me, getting past the "Ladies Who Lunch' in HR, is extremely difficult in a bad economy.  It's WORSE when the economy is good.   Bouncing from job to job on one year contracts for ten years was a BITCH. 

You  WILL be  asked you for a college  transcript here, for the rest of your life.

  I've done consulting work in the past both independently, and via the university for major defense contractors.
Some of them have started the process to hire me away from my present employer.  I always hit a snag when their HR people find out I do not have a Masters in EE. Which is usually a corporate policy for long term design employment in Defense.    Once in a while I've even been "Loaned" to a National Lab..

      Once a month I have dinner with a mix of about thirty EEs,  EE small business owners, and NDEs.    There are many  NDEs that have a skill that is amazing, in terms of RF, Computing, Math, whatever. At any give time four or five so of them will be unemployed. They suffer, and the EEs often buy them a drink or two, or three...

    We spend much  of our time at dinner,  trying to help them find jobs where their skill set and experience matches a need. As they get a year contract, they typically solve a serious problem at their contract employer, and are then passed over for permanence.  Even with a well connected team of us trying to help them, they struggle, and struggle often.

Some of these gents have tech skill sets that would make them a mid level manager, if they only had that piece of paper......

    If you want a Bride, If you Want a House, DON'T DO IT.   You will experience being used and tossed, used and tossed, and then after at least a decade of struggle, you might get lucky and snag a half decent job. 

   I'm working on a Masters in the evenings.  Not because I want or need another piece of parchment.  In fact my degree  just rehashes the same old College of Education materials that I did as a undergrad.  However the 4.0 GPA and the paper work is simply to have it on the resume for the next round of job hunting.

 A basic, non technical,  Masters is 500-600$ a credit hour in the US, and you will need 32 to 40 credits plus a semester off work to get an evenings and weekend MBA or similar.  That is 24,000$ you will have to spend a few years from now, for dropping out today.

I'm getting the Masters at 3-4 credit hours a semester. My employer "pays" for it, but I'm paying the taxes on it, which are steep!

   It is not just out of bitterness that I write this, I am trying to WARN you that the days of a twenty year career in technology  for some one without a degree or military service plus completion of a two year degree while in the military, are over in the US.   

I dont give a damn how much you hate the classroom.  Guess what, you can do it now, or you can go back later when it is much more difficult to learn while working a full time job.  Pick one or the other, or be poor.

    One of the reasons the College keeps me around, is when some  students struggle and want to quit, guess who is asked to grant an audience?  Usually explaining what my duties were on the day of the meeting, taking them to see what cool hardware I'm working on,  plus whipping out a pay slip, will result in a full grade letter increase for the struggling student. If they want to listen.

I take care of the technology needs of  22 Professors, 330 Undergrads, and 127 grad students. That is the same work load of a MD in family practice. Care to guess what I make compared to my GP??

I had one nice year as a Field Service Engineer, at ~70K after benefits.  However that involved living out of a suitcase for up to 90 days at a time.  Flying that often has some strange effects on your mind and body.

 FSE is a great way to be alone, and even if you look like an Adonis, you will not have any feminine company on the road, unless you run into a really stressed sales gal looking for a little warmth.( Odds of that are 40,000 to 1 against)  Your wife will have little use for you when you get home. 

    If you want to cap your pay to 32,000 to 45,000$ maximum for the rest of your life, often without health  benefits, please feel free to quit. The first time you hit medical debt in the US, you will probably cry when you get a 20,000 Dollar medical bill to pay off. 

DON'T QUIT.

Steve  NDE, B. Edu, 

<END BLINDING HEADACHE RANT MODE>

[dmills]

I walked out of a degree in year two, someone offered me a touring gig crewing for a rock and roll circus that looked like a lot more fun....

I sort of regret doing it, finishing the stupid thing would not have been that hard, but 20 somethings, what can you do?

I drifted around doing some software, bits of hardware and some event production stuff, then eventually wound up spending a few years as a junior electronics engineer in a small company, turns out that having a HAM ticket, being good at analogue and understanding impedance matching is sometimes a bigger sell then the velum, who knew? 
From there the fact that I understood microphones and how to do audio DSP properly got me a job in a broadcast equipment company (for >80% more pay), and these days I am having fun with audio (and hopefully soon SMPTE 2110 and 40Gb/s trancevers).

My job title these days is "Senior Hardware Engineer".

The real downside of not having the degree is that it makes getting hired by large companies a non starter, you will never make it thru the HR filters. The other downside is that you have to continually invest in yourself, my annual journal spend is in the thousands of pounds and my book spend is not far off.

The key to getting hired is to find companies that fit your expertise but are a little unconventional, if for example you have designed your own audio crossover networks and are not afraid of a smith chart then maybe a sonar transducer company might hire you for transducer matching networks for example. You don't need there to be lots of jobs, you need there to be one for which you obviously fit better then the newly minted local grads do.

My concern with you (Provided you could pass my first question "Tell me about something you have built", an excellent filter for junior staff), is that ALL jobs are 50% (on a good day) tedious tosh (Much like a degree), component obsolescence, design reviews, project planning, project status meetings, ..... And the tedious stuff is at least as important as the drawing diagrams and writing code bit.

The UK is also still I think a little more open to hiring the unconventional then the US seems to be these days.

Regards, Dan.

[LaserSteve]

PS,

 Like Dan, I spend a small fortune on reading materials, tools, and materials. Often difficult projects run on the bench at home, before formal submission or budget request,  so I know I will pass the design proposal  review.   I spend a small fortune buying used parts to stock my develpmental lab.

  Because I'm not supporting EEs, but CHE,  my home lab has to be very good, and that is expensive.
 
 PS, PS, Engineering students from our college are getting introductory offers in the 60K range or more right now, and we're not MIT. In fact, we have a difficult time getting some of them back from their mandatory  internships.

Steve

 

[PA4TIM]

I wanted to  study electronics (for a job involving working on computer hardware) but I had a problem with math. Some people advised me to follow an other study  just to have a paper (for the same level) So I studied business/marketing. I hated it, it was boring but I got the degree. A month after that I found a job in a computer shop as sales person. Not what I wanted but it adds experience and raised a income. (and that was because I worked in a computershop during my study as a weekend job, not my degree)
I moved to my first apartment and on my free day going out for more paint, I passed a complex where there was a jobs-fair for jobs in the IT (that was 1987)
I only had a motorbike, it was winter and paint al over me. I went in (not easy , dressed in a grease-coat and looking like I was homeless  ) I met man who had always drive a motorbike when he was my age.  We had a nice talk and he gave me a card so I could send my CV.

The interview a week later was with 2 managers, the sales manager (it was indoor sales support) and the support/service manager (to test my knowledge)
I got the job. A few years later the salesmanager told me the man I met on the fair (who was one of the CEO's) had told them upfront they must hire me. The reason they did this was my knowledge and the fact I had a degree. I did not matter what sort of a degree but it told them I could persist something I did not like and was able to think/talk on a certain level of education.

If I did not had that degree they would not have hired me (he told me)
After that , my next job was based on my proven experience in the IT field and was technical (unix network design)
So finally I reached my goal.
But at some point I was only solving problems caused bij the sales guys and I switch to a complete other branch and had my own shop over 20 years. I had to stop that due to health problems.

My hobby was electronics (repairing testgear)  I had/have a website to show what I can and that brought me in contact with a company who asked me to repair a Fluke 5101. I did this and he told it to others and so it went on.
I think that if I would now look for a job I can show and prove of my knowledge and I do not think a degree is now still important.

In the years I had my store I hired several university drop-outs (they had a weekend job in my store during their study otherwise I would not have hired them. ).  They are intelligent and cheap because they could not get other jobs. No experience, not a single degree, and  dropping out is often not seen as a good mentality. (they dropped out for the same reason as the TS) A few went back to study.

You can think that is wrong and maybe you are more qualified but a company can look at that from a whole different angle. And maybe they are wrong, but you have the problem if they do not hire you. Many technical people are not the best is selling themselves and social skills.

If you tell them the university is "not the way" and not good, there is a good change the guy on the other side of the table is an EE and he will not be very charmed if you indirect tell him he was a fool to get his degree. (maybe he felt the same like you back then but did not quit, in that case you can forget it.)

You probably do not want to hear this but do not forget, the only thing the companies are interested in, is what you have to offer and that is a combination of experience and education. You have neither.  (and if they like you as a colleague but only if the first 2 are OK)

So if you really do not want to study EE do not try to find a job as an EE. At least get an other degree  and never tell why you dropped out like you did in this topic during a interview. Then work in the industry at a lower level, prove your self and move up. And pray your employer does not decide to do some ISO etc bullshit and kicks you out because regulations do not allow your function to be given to a non-EE (a friend of mine had that problem)

[coppice]

Having worked in industrial training and in assessing people for training, I'd always prefer the guy with hands-on experience to the guy with a stack of bits of paper.

Having worked in industry and assessing people for employment, I've always rejected people with only practical experience and rejected people with only theoretical experience.

I have come across one person that had excellent theoretical knowledge without a degree; he started work in the late 40s when very few people went to university. I have come across many "practical is all you need people" that are great time-wasters because they don't realise what they don't know, and spend a long time chasing down alleys that are known to be dead-ends.

The people I've recommended for employment demonstrate they know the theory and demonstrate they have used it to shape their practical work - and vice versa.

There are technician type jobs where only practical experience is important. There are research type jobs where having only theoretical knowledge can be a limitation, but a flexible person will fit in OK. I fully agree that for the middle ground between those extremes a person with mixed knowledge is critical. The exception is when hiring fresh graduates. There I expect a good university to have focussed on theory, and I look for candidates who show an eagerness to fill in the practical side in their first couple of years working in industry.

[tggzzz]

Having worked in industrial training and in assessing people for training, I'd always prefer the guy with hands-on experience to the guy with a stack of bits of paper.

Having worked in industry and assessing people for employment, I've always rejected people with only practical experience and rejected people with only theoretical experience.

I have come across one person that had excellent theoretical knowledge without a degree; he started work in the late 40s when very few people went to university. I have come across many "practical is all you need people" that are great time-wasters because they don't realise what they don't know, and spend a long time chasing down alleys that are known to be dead-ends.

The people I've recommended for employment demonstrate they know the theory and demonstrate they have used it to shape their practical work - and vice versa.

There are technician type jobs where only practical experience is important. There are research type jobs where having only theoretical knowledge can be a limitation, but a flexible person will fit in OK. I fully agree that for the middle ground between those extremes a person with mixed knowledge is critical. The exception is when hiring fresh graduates. There I expect a good university to have focussed on theory, and I look for candidates who show an eagerness to fill in the practical side in their first couple of years working in industry.

Agreed, but I expect candidates to have done "significant" practical hobby work. "Significant" means they chose a stretch goal, largely succeeded, and can define what they would do better next time.

[coppice]

Agreed, but I expect candidates to have done "significant" practical hobby work. "Significant" means they chose a stretch goal, largely succeeded, and can define what they would do better next time.

I've known many fine engineers who have never engaged in electronics as a hobby. More so now, than before home computers were affordable. These days computing as a hobby and electronics as a profession seems to be a much more common arrangement than an electronics hobbyist who becomes an electronics professional.

[tggzzz]

Agreed, but I expect candidates to have done "significant" practical hobby work. "Significant" means they chose a stretch goal, largely succeeded, and can define what they would do better next time.

I've known many fine engineers who have never engaged in electronics as a hobby. More so now, than before home computers were affordable. These days computing as a hobby and electronics as a profession seems to be a much more common arrangement than an electronics hobbyist who becomes an electronics professional.

Accepted, partly because I have never seen a solid differentiation between the two.

If I was starting out again, I would choose something in the life sciences. Just think of the possibilities for biohacking

[PA4TIM]

laser-steve:   I'm a non-degreed Engineer.  I could not hack the math at the college level. I was not ready for it, but I could do it now.    Ironically I now  work at the university where I didn't make it, supporting graduate  research and teaching of engineering students.  They recruited me.  But only on a "soft money" basis at first, which means you only have a job for the duration of the research grant awarded to a professor.

The same start as Jim Williams 
An important thing, do the work you love.  Not always possible but you now still can choose. Better sacrifice a few years now as regret a few decades

[coppice]

If I was starting out again, I would choose something in the life sciences. Just think of the possibilities for biohacking

I would too. Unless there is a huge breakthrough electronics is going to be a fairly limiting career over the next 4 decades of a working life. Rather like mechanical engineering looked stodgy in the 70s, while electronics looked full of possibilities.

[dmills]

home lab has to be very good, and that is expensive.

Isn't it ever...

Thing is if you want to play this game without the paper you almost have to be an academic in your spare time, at least to the point of reading papers and performing experiments (Without the schools support apparatus), so Journals, Books, and a properly equipped lab, which particularly if you want to play in the RF space is not a cheap proposition (Even just keeping the kit reasonably close to in cal once you have it!).
Remember that two weeks in the lab can reduce twenty minutes in the library doing a literature search to nearly nothing, so the library is at least as important as the gear!

Last time I totalled it for the insurance there was nearly £100k in the lab at current prices (Not that I paid that, amazing how much cheaper gear is with clearly shot power supplies), then there is the fume hood in the garage together with the flammables cabinet and glove box with inert gas flood (Ebay) does not get the use it should, but sometimes you need a clean environment or the hydrofloric gel and foil gloves, or boiling HNO3 and that shit is better outside the house.

It is cheaper now then it was when I started, but you are still perpetually shopping for more sort of HP/Keysight, R&S, Gore and Anritsu then you are for Adafruit, and you have to have that stuff at home!

These days you are also expected to be able to program in at least a few languages (Including one or more assemblers, C, maybe some C++, a few scripting languages and maybe a HDL of some form).

And for gods sake have something as an answer to my "What have you built?" question (or similar), I don't care if the answer is a radio, a treehouse, a steam train, a Linux distribution or an Ikea bookcase (In which case I will ask for a detailed critique of the instructions).
Have something you can talk about in detail, because I WILL dig, and the sorts of companies that are likely to hire you without the paper tend to have folk like me and Steve on the interview panels in my experience (It is that sort of company because we never let HR filter CVs, a hopeless thing to do IMHO when hiring engineers).

Good luck with it.

Regards, Dan.

[tggzzz]

And for gods sake have something as an answer to my "What have you built?" question (or similar), I don't care if the answer is a radio, a treehouse, a steam train, a Linux distribution or an Ikea bookcase (In which case I will ask for a detailed critique of the instructions).
Have something you can talk about in detail, because I WILL dig, and the sorts of companies that are likely to hire you without the paper tend to have folk like me and Steve on the interview panels in my experience (It is that sort of company because we never let HR filter CVs, a hopeless thing to do IMHO when hiring engineers).

Yes indeed. Such interviews are fun, and indicate the kind of place I've wanted to work.

The only caveat is that when I've been digging it has been into whatever the candidate has stated, be that theoretical or practical, in whatever discipline.

And then I've pushed them to see if they know and acknowledge the limits of their knowledge. That's what I experienced at HP when they first interviewed me; I declined their job offer, but remembered the interview and accepted another almost a decade later.

[dmills]

Yep, if you put it on the CV, it is fair game, and I will have at least googled the subject enough to be able to hum the outline of the tune and know the names of the major papers (Usually if it looks like interesting theory, I will have you do a 10 or 15 minute, "teach me" in the interview, a great way to assess how much somebody really knows, and sometimes I learn something).

It always amazes me how many people put "C programming" on a CV then cannot tell me what is wrong with "i = i++;"or why a variable should sometimes be declared "volatile" 

Regards, Dan.

[coppice]

It always amazes me how many people put "C programming" on a CV then cannot tell me what is wrong with "i = i++;"or why a variable should sometimes be declared "volatile" 

...but they can get the computer to say "Hello world". What more do you want?

What is more annoying is how many people report bugs in compilers and other software, when their problem is just that they don't understand when they need to declare things volatile.

[dmills]

Ah the preemption version of the "select is broken!" crowd, yea, aggravating right up there with the "I wrote nonconforming code and the compiler broke my security assumptions, you must fix it!" guys (The GCC bug tracker has some amusing examples, uusally around signed Vs unsigned and type inference) .

Regards, Dan.

[Mr. Scram]

Yes, sure. You can do whatever you want, of course. However, if you want to work within the system, you don't have a choice.

The system is a lot bigger than you seem to think.