I tried to order a $1.99 knob from Keysight and felt the PAIN !!!

[bitseeker]

(they were all nice)

Likewise, everyone I've interacted with at Keysight were friendly and professional. They get frustrated with or puzzled by some of these "procedures", too.

I worked for 1/4 century in one of the largest aerospace companies on the planet, so I am familiar with some of this process (I'm retired now and just hassle companies for little knobs  )

I can imagine what kinds of red tape were involved there.

[xrunner]

Likewise, everyone I've interacted with at Keysight were friendly and professional. They get frustrated with or puzzled by some of these "procedures", too.

Yep and that right there tells you something.

I can imagine what kinds of red tape were involved there.

You have no idea ... you have NO idea 

The bigger the company the more departments it has. The more departments there are the more processes there are for each department. People get promoted and they have to produce something, so one thing the manager does is write processes for their department (if there were not any before) or they re-write the processes.

Now, if it's large enough you are going to get conflicting processes. I can guarantee (notice I underlined and italicized that) you that is the problem I and others encounter with this parts ordering/individual thing. Keysight has conflicting processes for parts ordering. It's obvious to anyone really. 

One process from one dept. says "Require all registrations to be from a legitimate company representative"

Another one says "parts can be sold to both company representatives and individual customers (that's the process the phone reps use).

Now, put them together and presto - confilcting processes. Wow, I need to get Keysight to hire me to fix this issue! 

[LabSpokane]

It probably cost Keysight $20 to process your $2 order. 

$20 is probably a low estimate between the phone call, accounting, warehouse picker, and shipping. 

Folks need to realize that Keysight, like many such corporations, has a very different business model than direct, retail sales. Keysight might help this PR problem by including an "individual" option in their system to automatically catch this stuff, but don't expect anything to change dramatically in this regard.  Buying things as an individual from a company that does 99.999% of their sales volume as business-to-business will just never be easy.

And I don't care where you are, virtually every corporate B2B accounting system is awkward, flakey, and hated by all but the head accountant who crammed it down everyone's throat.

[Electro Detective]

xrunner is a much nicer person than I can ever aspire to be   

I would have SCREWED them so hard, they would have NO ALTERNATIVE but to send me a new oscilloscope FREE,
and a BOX of FREE replacement knobs to sweeten the 'shutup and go away' deal, 

as well as an offer of employment as their new international parts supply OVERSEER, with a yearly salary exceeding the CEO's 



i.e. if VALUED CUSTOMERS like xrunner get that type of treatment on my watch, heads will roll !!!!!!   

[hendorog]

It probably cost Keysight $20 to process your $2 order. 

$20 is probably a low estimate between the phone call, accounting, warehouse picker, and shipping. 

Folks need to realize that Keysight, like many such corporations, has a very different business model than direct, retail sales. Keysight might help this PR problem by including an "individual" option in their system to automatically catch this stuff, but don't expect anything to change dramatically in this regard.  Buying things as an individual from a company that does 99.999% of their sales volume as business-to-business will just never be easy.

And I don't care where you are, virtually every corporate B2B accounting system is awkward, flakey, and hated by all but the head accountant who crammed it down everyone's throat.

Not being rude, but you are missing the point. It isn't just individuals that Keysight are confused about. They are also confused about whether they sell to international customers. They are confused about how to set up new accounts. I have no doubt there are many other scenarios they are also confused about.

Clearly the people that understand the rules, are very deep down the parts purchasing rabbit hole. The policies at the back end have not been deployed at the front end.
Therefore both customers, and purchasing help desk staff have no idea what they are allowed to do.

Setting up a web store is not rocket salad these days.  Keysight are getting away with it at the moment due to lack of competition (who else does this well?), but that will not last forever. There is an opportunity for a smart operator to provide quality backup service for their gear.

[VK5RC]

xrunner - I had a similar attempt to get an HP knob - I was lucky and got an off the cuff comment early on that they really only wanted to deal with retailers - large service departments re parts. I called my local HP-Ag-KS people (who are nice)  and 6 weeks later got the part
You think with a little effort re the website - they would make a nice business selling parts and bits to us crazy TEA heads and moving stock!

[LabSpokane]

It probably cost Keysight $20 to process your $2 order. 

$20 is probably a low estimate between the phone call, accounting, warehouse picker, and shipping. 

Folks need to realize that Keysight, like many such corporations, has a very different business model than direct, retail sales. Keysight might help this PR problem by including an "individual" option in their system to automatically catch this stuff, but don't expect anything to change dramatically in this regard.  Buying things as an individual from a company that does 99.999% of their sales volume as business-to-business will just never be easy.

And I don't care where you are, virtually every corporate B2B accounting system is awkward, flakey, and hated by all but the head accountant who crammed it down everyone's throat.

Not being rude, but you are missing the point. It isn't just individuals that Keysight are confused about. They are also confused about whether they sell to international customers. They are confused about how to set up new accounts. I have no doubt there are many other scenarios they are also confused about.

Clearly the people that understand the rules, are very deep down the parts purchasing rabbit hole. The policies at the back end have not been deployed at the front end.
Therefore both customers, and purchasing help desk staff have no idea what they are allowed to do.

Setting up a web store is not rocket salad these days.  Keysight are getting away with it at the moment due to lack of competition (who else does this well?), but that will not last forever. There is an opportunity for a smart operator to provide quality backup service for their gear.

The matter of selling to international customers is not simple when there can be authorized distributors in the customer's country who contractually receive first crack at all business.

Personally, I agree with the concept of selling all Keysight parts (not just a few select ones) to anyone anywhere with a credit card out of a webstore, but the reality is, that it won't be a department that could raise sales by 1% or even 0.1% for Keysight, who did $2.9B in sales in 2016. Keysight' average customer (of which there are only 45,000 direct and indirect) buys $64K USD per year in test gear.

Keysight only spun off three years ago. That kind of a change involves a huge amount of turmoil. I guarantee that all of the focus is in on sales to their core customers who buy tens of thousands a year in new equipment and not $20 worth of spare parts every few years to refurbish long obsolete products.

[xrunner]

I guarantee that all of the focus is in on sales to their core customers who buy tens of thousands a year in new equipment and not $20 worth of spare parts every few years to refurbish long obsolete products.

Umm ... the knob in question, that I wanted, is not a "long obsolete product".  It's the exact same knob that goes with their current models of scopes such as the InfiniiVision 1000 X-Series ...

[LabSpokane]

I guarantee that all of the focus is in on sales to their core customers who buy tens of thousands a year in new equipment and not $20 worth of spare parts every few years to refurbish long obsolete products.

Umm ... the knob in question, that I wanted, is not a "long obsolete product".  It's the exact same knob that goes with their current models of scopes such as the InfiniiVision 1000 X-Series ...

Referring to the scope with the floppy drive...

[xrunner]

Referring to the scope with the floppy drive...

Yes, yes so am I. You need to go back and read the opening post I made ... 

[Kjelt]

From that POV any hobbyist that buys their gear second hand and tries to repair/upgrade/look like new is not their core business. They rather sell you a new unit. In that perspective it is great service that they will sell you parts at all.
What the T&A world could use is 2nd hand sellers of parts and boards, just like with cars.

[xrunner]

From that POV any hobbyist that buys their gear second hand and tries to repair/upgrade/look like new is not their core business. They rather sell you a new unit. In that perspective it is great service that they will sell you parts at all.

Boy, I could sure make a killer analogy to the automobile industry with that statement, but I bet you can imagine what my analogy would be without trying too hard at all. Especially the part about

"In that perspective it is great service that they will sell you parts at all."

 

[Kjelt]

Yeah well the picture LabSpokane drawed was a sort of IBM from the eighties, sell a mainframe and if something is not working sell them the newer one.
The fact is that a second hand owner is not core business for such big companies, look at Apple if anything from their devices is not working you get a new one and you have to pay for it if out of warranty. A sad world but that is where we are heading.
I find it upsetting that buying a $5000 amplifier I am not getting the service manual they dont give it to you. They dont want you to modify or repair their devices. So in that context Keysight is a pretty decent company

[xrunner]

The fact is that a second hand owner is not core business for such big companies, look at Apple if anything from their devices is not working you get a new one and you have to pay for it if out of warranty. A sad world but that is where we are heading.

Again, I can make the exact same analogy to the automobile industry. Oh what the hell, here -

So a day in the life of Charlie, the owner of a used 2009 Chevy truck ...

Charlie walks into the Chevy dealership parts department -

Charlie: "Hello, I need the front driver's side headlamp lens and lamp for a 2009 Chevy truck"

Parts man: "You say a 2009 Chevy truck? Well sir you know that's an obsolete vehicle that we do not produce any longer"

Charlie: "Well, yea so? Models change every year, but so what? Don't you have the parts for it?"

Parts guy: "Sir, this parts dept. is NOT our core business. Wouldn't you be better off buying a new Chevy truck? That's my recommendation."

Charlie: "I like my 2009 truck, I just need a few parts for it and it will be OK."

Parts guy: "Well, I don't recommend fixing it, but realize this - you need to understand that you should be very glad that we are going to sell you any parts at all. Are you going to be appreciative of us doing that?"

Charlie: " Yea dude whatever just get the parts and let me get outta here!"

Parts guy: " Sure thing oh by the way that going to add an additional 20% onto the price for fixing a used truck."

Charlie: "WTF?"

[Kjelt]

Yes I understand you're point.
My point was actually that for used cars and oldtimers there are tons of small businesses earning their living. If you need a wing from a 60s corvette you can get it from some metalscrapyard/use autoparts company, carburator are made brand new these days etc.
You would expect something like that for T&A equipment but it is getting the opposite way, buy a new one 

[amirm]

I experienced a similar thing with Keysight.  Bought a scope from Fry's Electronics and noticed one of the probes was physically broken.  It was loose in the middle and would make intermittent connection.

So I go and register with similar process to OP.  Get through all of that and then try to make a warranty claim.  They said I had to pack and ship the entire scope to them!  I went through two people I think and no matter how much I explained it is just a probe and that the other one in the box works, they said I had to send the entire scope to them.

So I gave up and still have a broken probe buried somewhere in my junk boxes.

As noted though, everyone was very friend that I dealt with so it is not them but the system someone has created for them that lacks flexibility and common sense.

[theatrus]

Also up there in the realm of "stupid registration requirements for website" has to be muRata. In order to see some better data on capacitors, you need to register. Registration apparently requires someone to manually vet your "application", which can take weeks.

I registered an account several months back, basically checked all the boxes for the various business areas, and just got an approval message for one of them today.

[xrunner]

I registered an account several months back, basically checked all the boxes for the various business areas, and just got an approval message for one of them today.

Registrations like that just make people check boxes and do whatever it takes to get through it. So in the end what was the purpose if people check boxes that effectively give the company useless data if you just click things to get through it.

It's like that Keysight field asking for your company name. Me being an honest person and not now with a company, it even made me stop and make a call to Keysight, to ask them what I should do. Well if you have read this thread you'd know that the representative told me to enter my name there. So in a field that is storing company names I was told to enter a personal name. So the data accumulating in the database for that field (assuming this has been done many times before) is full of errors. Like I said, the Dept. that owns the process that caused the design of the registration to ask for a company name doesn't mean squat to the parts order takers that answer the phone. They don't care. Their process couldn't care less about whether you are a company or not, so they break the other Dept's process on demand for the parts customers who are not with a company. Pointless.

It's really simple to fix. Have a selection box for either a company account or a personal account. Then they can proceed as they wish. If they have rules for a company to follow: gosub "company". Or if it's a personal account: gosub "personal".

If there are different charges for a personal account, such as surcharges for being a pesky hobbyist or whatnot, then so be it. But it ain't that hard!

Daniel must be on weekend vacation but I did PM him this thread.

[BrianHG]

This is what happens when Keysight makes a 100GHz 1m$ scope in their product line.  It makes them feel they can ignore the little guy...

[Electro Detective]

Makes you wonder WHY the former good gear company has gone through so many name changes..   

I've noticed HP laptops are still branded HP, relatively bug free, good support

and not orange... yet 

[xrunner]

Makes you wonder WHY the former good gear company has gone through so many name changes..   

I've noticed HP laptops are still branded HP, relatively bug free, good support

I remember when it happened - in 1999. I think it was Lew Platt that did it, split it into HP and Agilent. The good name of HP went to the computer side. I couldn't believe that at the time. I remember it very well because I thought it was stupid. 

Then the whole mess was handed over to Carly Fiorina. 

[Electro Detective]

well yeah, how many laptops, PCs and servers would they sell if they were re-named Agilent and Keysight,

while Dell, Acer and the others kept their names, and flogged more gear due to customer brand familiarity and confidence



"oooh lookie at my new Agilent laptop.." 

"    is an 'Agilent'? who makes it? another new player? stick to the real deal and buy a pro HP or Dell next time..
Can you take it back for a refund, seriously Doris, that orange laptop looks weird "

 



   

[timb]

I still love Keysight.  I know this can happen.  I've had the same thing happen with appliance companies and gun companies and other manufacturers when you need a part because something broke on you and you are a fixit yourself type person.  This problem is not unique to Keysight, far from it.

Yes. Even consumer facing companies can be problematic. A few months back it took my father 60 minutes on the phone for DirecTV to send him a new remote control. The overseas tech support guy had him pressing *every* button on the remote in a procedure that took 30 seconds per button. I'm not even kidding here.

On the flip side, you have companies that have amazing service. I once lost a spring and pin from a S&W .40 Pistol (I spent 30 minutes searching the ground, it must have bounced into a micro black hole). I called S&W up and they sent me new ones, no questions asked, free of charge. They arrived UPS two days later. That was my first S&W pistol, now I own several more, because of the fantastic customer service.

[hendorog]

On the flip side, you have companies that have amazing service. I once lost a spring and pin from a S&W .40 Pistol (I spent 30 minutes searching the ground, it must have bounced into a micro black hole). I called S&W up and they sent me new ones, no questions asked, free of charge. They arrived UPS two days later. That was my first S&W pistol, now I own several more, because of the fantastic customer service.

Yep some companies are amazing - My son lost a specific part of a Lego set he got for his birthday. I found a web page where you can request replacement parts direct for Lego. I got an email back saying that they don't offer that service to NZ, but they would send a replacement part anyway...! A couple of weeks later the part arrived in the mail - no charge.

[timb]

On the flip side, you have companies that have amazing service. I once lost a spring and pin from a S&W .40 Pistol (I spent 30 minutes searching the ground, it must have bounced into a micro black hole). I called S&W up and they sent me new ones, no questions asked, free of charge. They arrived UPS two days later. That was my first S&W pistol, now I own several more, because of the fantastic customer service.

Yep some companies are amazing - My son lost a specific part of a Lego set he got for his birthday. I found a web page where you can request replacement parts direct for Lego. I got an email back saying that they don't offer that service to NZ, but they would send a replacement part anyway...! A couple of weeks later the part arrived in the mail - no charge.

Wow, it's awesome to hear LEGO still has great service like that! Around 1996 or so I had lost a part (from their more advanced Technix series) and called their toll free support number. Not only did they send me the part I needed, they sent me a handful of other parts too, including some of the fully articulate Technix mini-figs. I was 12 or 13 at the time and thought it was so cool they did that.