Author Topic: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging  (Read 4952 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« on: July 13, 2017, 08:37:34 pm »
And the bullshit idea of the day award goes to:

https://www.facebook.com/exploristscience/videos/1261899520574908/
 

Offline ConKbot

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 08:44:01 pm »
Class 4 laser shining at a potentially dirty solar panel surface, what could go wrong. Whole lotta "yeah it's dangerous,  but we have software controlling it so it's safe" going on with ubeam and this.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 10:37:28 pm »
Yep, it is rubbish. A bigger award goes to the politician who called for funding research into solar powered bicycles. The common theme is these hare-brained ideas come from a class of people with little or no knowledge of physics, chemistry or electronics.

When I was a kid, I really wanted to buy a pair of x-ray specs :P  :o.

 

Offline coppice

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 12:00:47 am »
A bigger award goes to the politician who called for funding research into solar powered bicycles.
Of course bicycles are solar powered. Why do you think there so are few on the road when its not a nice sunny day?  ;)
 
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Offline electr_peter

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 03:14:53 am »
A bigger award goes to the politician who called for funding research into solar powered bicycles.
Of course bicycles are solar powered. Why do you think there so are few on the road when its not a nice sunny day?  ;)
Open sunroofs and cabriolets with open roofs are also common on sunny days. There maybe something profound to be found in this area.
 

Offline Gribo

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 03:37:20 am »
Sure, the sun causes them to sprout in your neighbor's garage.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2017, 05:14:12 am »
Yep, it is rubbish. A bigger award goes to the politician who called for funding research into solar powered bicycles. The common theme is these hare-brained ideas come from a class of people with little or no knowledge of physics, chemistry or electronics.

When I was a kid, I really wanted to buy a pair of x-ray specs :P  :o.

X-ray goggles are a far more feasable idea then this. You could put tiny X-ray tubes and reflection sensors into a pair of large goggles connecting to a seperate unit for power and control. But of course it could only be used in a proper shielded environment such as an analysis lab.

I love how the people in the comment are realizing it's dangerous, and he's just calling them dumb hippies. Does he not know that infrared lasers are used to cut and burn things in industrial and medical applications? :palm: He's the one who's a dumb hippie. At least people are trying to stop him.
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Offline buck converter

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2017, 05:41:01 am »
More info :palm:https://www.wi-charge.com/technology/

Quote
THE CHALLENGE OF TRUE MOBILITY: UNTETHERED POWER
The world continues its inexorable march to mobility with mobile technologies are entering every aspect of our lives. Today’s widely used mobile devices – smartphones and tablets – are being joined by watches, sensors, wearables and so many more appliances supported by innumerable new applications. However, mobile devices are not truly mobile if they require connection to the power cord. Untethered re-charging is the final challenge to true mobility.

Wi-Charge technology provides us finally a way of getting rid of the power cord, efficiently and safely.
Our technology makes charging at home, at the office, or in public places – practically anywhere – effortless and automatic enabling complete self-sufficiency in mobile devices.

TECHNOLOGY OVERVIEW
Wi-Charge’s technology is unique in its ability to deliver useful power over long distances efficiently and safely. Power is delivered over distances using infrared beams of light. The system consists of two units:

The transmitter unit – connected to a power source (standard AC, DC or USB), delivers power to receivers anywhere in its vicinity. The transmitter emits focused, safe infrared beams that carry power to receivers.
The receiver unit – captures the light from the transmitter and converts it to electrical power using a photovoltaic cell, just like the way that solar panels convert sunlight into electricity.
Power is delivered over the air by a virtual photonic power cord™.

TRANSMITTER AND RECEIVERS
The transmitter is a very smart device. Within its coverage area, it automatically identifies chargeable devices and discovers their power requirements. It delivers power to receivers based on their priority, power requirements, battery level and other parameters. Multiple clients can be charged simultaneously using an intelligent power-management algorithm embedded in the transmitter. Automatically, the transmitter directs a safe infrared beam to each receiver, establishing a Virtual Photonic Power Cord™. No light is spread outside of the beam; 100% of the power delivered from the transmitter reaches the receiver.

Depending on size and power requirements of the charging device, the tiny thumb size receiver is automatically illuminated by the invisible infrared beam. The receiver converts power from the beam to an electric charge which is used to power the device or recharge its battery. Determined by the requirements of the devices and the application, the tiny receiver may be embedded in the mobile device or plugged externally into an existing charging port.

Wi-Charge receivers contain a photovoltaic cell, miniature optics and electronic hardware. We also offer receivers with a micro-USB or a Lightning output connector for aftermarket consumer applications such as phone- and tablet-charging. Wi-Charge also offers a simple two-wire output with custom voltage supply for special applications.

POWER DELIVERY
Efficient power delivery via light necessitates a great deal of intelligence in the transmitter. The process of client identification and power delivery is performed automatically without any user intervention. For example, the mobile-phone user simply enters the room and the transmitter will automatically find it and begin charging it. The receiver is detectable by the transmitter even if the device’s battery is drained, and it will stop charging the device once the battery is full.

LINE OF SIGHT
Power flows in a straight, narrow line. If, for any reason, the line of sight between the transmitter and receiver is blocked, transmission stops immediately. This ensures that power emission levels are always compliant with safety standards and international regulations. Once line of sight is restored, charging restarts automatically. To ensure steady power delivery, each Wi-Charge receiver is equipped with an energy storage buffer (capacitor or battery) that automatically bridges sporadic interruptions.

COMMUNICATIONS
In addition to power delivery, the transmitter and receiver share a communication channel which enables data delivery between the units, and whose payload is application dependent and customizable. This communication channel can enable identification of the properties of the receiving device, enabling efficient power flow, information transfer channel for various applications etc.

PRODUCT FEATURES
Automatic – the transmitter finds the devices and powers them without intervention
Safe – complies with international standards and regulations
Power delivery over distance – room, hall, or long-distance, per application
Wide field of view – single transmitter can cover a room of 250 square feet
High power – unlike “power harvesting” solutions, a Wi-Charge transmitter can deliver watts of electrical power
Power is constant over distance – no power dissipation and 100% link efficiency
Multiple devices can be charged simultaneously
Scalable – additional transmitters can be placed to increase coverage, power and number of receivers
Smart power delivery according to receiving-device parameters
EMI-free
Just me and my scope.
 
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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2017, 05:47:44 am »
Class 1, 1M, 2 and 2M are the only safe collimated CW lasers, class 3R and 3M are safe if handled with care and class 4 needs interlocks and key switches and the beam path must be carefully controlled. With IR and UV lasers there is no blink reflex so the exposure time is potentially a lot longer sor with IR expect damage to the iris and cornea.
Quote
a Wi-Charge transmitter can deliver watts of electrical power
so definately not safe.
Quote
if the line of sight between the transmitter and receiver is blocked, transmission stops immediately
it would need to be a very fast shut down.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 05:52:11 am by chris_leyson »
 

Offline ConKbot

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 11:47:42 am »
Class 1, 1M, 2 and 2M are the only safe collimated CW lasers, class 3R and 3M are safe if handled with care and class 4 needs interlocks and key switches and the beam path must be carefully controlled. With IR and UV lasers there is no blink reflex so the exposure time is potentially a lot longer sor with IR expect damage to the iris and cornea.
Quote
a Wi-Charge transmitter can deliver watts of electrical power
so definately not safe.
Quote
if the line of sight between the transmitter and receiver is blocked, transmission stops immediately
it would need to be a very fast shut down.
Forget the very fast shutdown, even the diffuse reflections from a class 4 laser can be dangerous, a fingerprint on the solar panel (lets pretend they have a perfect AR coating on the panel for giggles) would be hazardous given its literally right under what you're looking at. Hopefully if this blind-o-matic makes it into production, FDA puts a nix on any imports.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 11:57:12 am by ConKbot »
 
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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 12:46:21 pm »
Thanks Conkbot, I had forgotten about diffuse reflections
 

Online Gary350z

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 01:46:22 pm »
...solar powered bicycles.

Solar energy make plants grow > plants consumed by humans > human powers bicycle.

Solar energy make plants grow > plant consumed by animals > animals consumed by humans > human powers bicycle.

Solar energy make plants grow > plant turns into fossil fuel > fossil fuel makes electricity > electricity powers bicycle.

Solar energy generates electricity > electricity powers bicycle.

Technically, all bicycles are solar powered. ;D
 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2017, 06:12:18 pm »
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/consumer-electronics/portable-devices/wicharge-promises-phone-charging-by-infrared-laser

Sooo... is this really viable?

I missed Daves initial post, but stumbled upon Wi-charges crappy video today.
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2017, 06:16:11 pm »
 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2017, 07:50:00 pm »
I have and also posted to this thread ;)
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2017, 09:49:07 am »
Quote
Sooo... is this really viable?

That's in interesting link. The essence of this device is that it puts everything inside the laser:

Quote
A laser is usually described as a device that bounces light between a pair of mirrors on either end of a gain medium, which amplifies the light with each successive pass. Usually one of the mirrors inside this cavity is partially transparent allowing some of the light to exit as a laser beam.

Wi-Charge's ingenious idea was to take this cavity, which is typically a closed device, and turn it into an "open unit" where one of the mirrors is located for example in a light fixture on the ceiling and the other one on the receiving device.

Maybe that works and maybe it doesn't, but they then say:

Quote
Powerful lasers can be dangerous, however Wi-Charge uses a class 1 infra red laser (safe under all conditions of normal use) and more importantly the "external cavity" design means that the instant anything crosses the path of the laser—your hand, your eye—amplification will stop and the energy will drop.

Perhaps I am being a bit dense, but if it is amplifying light (or anything, come to that) it doesn't matter if you're inside or outside because what leaks out of the far mirror is only what's built up inside anyway. Thus if it's all class 1 then you don't have any power to transfer, and if you have enough power then it ain't class 1 wherever you interact with it.

The only part of that which seems reasonable (to someone not versed in laser technology) is the auto-kill by interruption. It seems to me you'd still get the full beam hit but it would be for a jolly short time.

I'd be interested if someone with a real clue could comment on that link rather than just diving off the deep end of what most assume the technology to be (which, apparently, it isn't).
 

Offline Beamin

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2017, 12:31:33 pm »
That's a great idea. When its not charging you can use it to cut through metal like a laser cutter.
What happened to ODE TO SPOT by Data? Seriously I don't remember changing it.
 

Offline Beamin

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2017, 01:15:40 pm »
I really don't see whats so hard about plugging your phone in or setting it on a mat for inductive charging. Is this that big of a problem that we need to spend millions of dollars and create countless companies to make our phone 0.00001% easier to use?

It's a case of inventing a problem to match your solution.
What happened to ODE TO SPOT by Data? Seriously I don't remember changing it.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2017, 01:29:40 pm »
Yeah, what's so hard about plugging in the old RJ45. This WiFi malarky is just a solution looking for a problem, right? Hey, all those cell towers are just solutions looking for a problem the landline fixed decades ago. And who needs to read a forum on a tiny screen when you have BFO computer monitor there. Actually, now you mention it, just plain mono text is fine and all that windowy coloured stuff is just fixing a problem no-one's thought of yet.
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2017, 05:00:07 pm »
Class 4 laser shining at a potentially dirty solar panel surface, what could go wrong. Whole lotta "yeah it's dangerous,  but we have software controlling it so it's safe" going on with ubeam and this.

CNC machine gun turrets have software controlling them, so they must be safe.
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Offline Beamin

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2017, 09:52:44 pm »
Yeah, what's so hard about plugging in the old RJ45. This WiFi malarky is just a solution looking for a problem, right? Hey, all those cell towers are just solutions looking for a problem the landline fixed decades ago. And who needs to read a forum on a tiny screen when you have BFO computer monitor there. Actually, now you mention it, just plain mono text is fine and all that windowy coloured stuff is just fixing a problem no-one's thought of yet.

That's not the same. You have to plug the phone in once every few days usually when you are not using it like when you are in bed. Wifi on the other hand needs to be on all the time. If your phone takes an hour to charge and lasts 48 hours that's about 2% where as the wifi needs to going close to 100%.
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2017, 10:38:36 pm »
Ever tried walking off with your phone charging?

My phone isn't modern enough, but I am assured by acquaintances who use 'em that charging pads are a jolly good wheeze and the future. They would struggle to justify a new phone that didn't have the capability. This IR laser thing is just an extension of that - wireless charging BUT without having to leave it in a specific place. And then not move it for a couple of hours.

That is, if it worked. Plainly, this one is very unlikely to, but in principle the idea is useful and desirable. Just because you're stuck in the 50s doesn't mean everyone else has to be, and if you can't see any benefits perhaps it's you that's having trouble looking.

Quote
That's not the same.

Actually, you might be surprised. Even desktops seem to use WiFi as the primary connection now. In fact, a client has a perfectly good gigabit network port right next to his PC which has a drop cable connecting it to the PC, yet he complains about poor download performance which I track to his WiFi card being the primary network connection. He shrugs and says "oh well" and that's the end of it. No, I don't understand that either, but it seems to be becoming the norm.
 

Offline ConKbot

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2017, 11:07:10 pm »
Quote
Sooo... is this really viable?

That's in interesting link. The essence of this device is that it puts everything inside the laser:

Quote
A laser is usually described as a device that bounces light between a pair of mirrors on either end of a gain medium, which amplifies the light with each successive pass. Usually one of the mirrors inside this cavity is partially transparent allowing some of the light to exit as a laser beam.

Wi-Charge's ingenious idea was to take this cavity, which is typically a closed device, and turn it into an "open unit" where one of the mirrors is located for example in a light fixture on the ceiling and the other one on the receiving device.

Maybe that works and maybe it doesn't, but they then say:

Quote
Powerful lasers can be dangerous, however Wi-Charge uses a class 1 infra red laser (safe under all conditions of normal use) and more importantly the "external cavity" design means that the instant anything crosses the path of the laser—your hand, your eye—amplification will stop and the energy will drop.

Perhaps I am being a bit dense, but if it is amplifying light (or anything, come to that) it doesn't matter if you're inside or outside because what leaks out of the far mirror is only what's built up inside anyway. Thus if it's all class 1 then you don't have any power to transfer, and if you have enough power then it ain't class 1 wherever you interact with it.

The only part of that which seems reasonable (to someone not versed in laser technology) is the auto-kill by interruption. It seems to me you'd still get the full beam hit but it would be for a jolly short time.

I'd be interested if someone with a real clue could comment on that link rather than just diving off the deep end of what most assume the technology to be (which, apparently, it isn't).
No expert, but indeed that is a bit of a changer from the expected laser+galvo setup.  Giving the benefit of the doubt that 2 retroreflectors, free space and a small gain medium work, it would indeed be much safer, as a partial obstruction would be enough to reduce system gain enough to kill any amplification in the cavity, and it would quickly (nanoseconds) extinguish down to the seed laser intensity.

I sill have concerns over reflections though, as if you're delivering 2 watts ('watts' of energy) with the receiver mirror being 90% reflective, that's 20W of beam power in the free space cavity. Any diffuse reflections from dirt on the mirrors, if it's not enough to shut off the cavity, will reflect a lot. 

If they manage to get enough gain in the gain medium to drop the reflectivity of the RX end mirror, which would mean lower power in the cavity, I'd move it from "Lol holy shit that's a bad idea" to "hmmm, doesn't seem quite right, prove it."
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2017, 11:11:13 pm »
Thanks for your considered opinion  :-+
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Infrared Laser Wireless Charging
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2017, 08:26:21 am »
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/consumer-electronics/portable-devices/wicharge-promises-phone-charging-by-infrared-laser

Sooo... is this really viable?

"A laser is usually described as a device that bounces light between a pair of mirrors on either end of a gain medium, which amplifies the light with each successive pass. Usually one of the mirrors inside this cavity is partially transparent allowing some of the light to exit as a laser beam.

Wi-Charge's ingenious idea was to take this cavity, which is typically a closed device, and turn it into an "open unit" where one of the mirrors is located for example in a light fixture on the ceiling and the other one on the receiving device. The semiconductor gain medium is located in the transmitter and provides the photons that are harvested by the photovoltaic cell at the receiver."


In my expert considered opinion :D, that bit at least is a load of cobblers.
 


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